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On March 20 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 03:28 Olli wrote:On March 20 2018 02:49 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2018 02:31 SAFenix wrote:1. Mvp2. soO3. INnoVation4. Zest5. Life6. MMA7. Zest8. Rain9. Maru10. DarkMy list is definitely weighted towards active players, as I believe longevity is important in success. Mvp is GOAT solely on the fact that he was the first 'Best in the World' and history counts (similar to how BoxeR is considered a GOAT). soO at #2 is due to his ridiculous consistency to compete at a high level. So weighted towards active players you have Zest twice. As opposed to a lot of people who don't even have him in once, which is just as absurd. Obviously it's all subjective. But I do think Zest is the obvious pick as #1 protoss. I don't see any reason to put another above him, or have him missing on a top 10 list. His 2014 might be the best year of any player to date, except Mvp's 2011 depending on how you look at it.
INnovation's 2017 wasn't bad, with 2 starleagues and a weekender, or even 2 weekender since IEM Ggyeongji was part of 2017 season.
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On March 20 2018 07:30 Cricketer12 wrote:Naniwa at 7? Wtf
Agreed with the "wtf". It's Stephano then Naniwa then everyone else.
Also, I love how International = Please No Koreans!
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On March 20 2018 08:17 Mun_Su wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 03:28 Olli wrote:On March 20 2018 02:49 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2018 02:31 SAFenix wrote:1. Mvp2. soO3. INnoVation4. Zest5. Life6. MMA7. Zest8. Rain9. Maru10. DarkMy list is definitely weighted towards active players, as I believe longevity is important in success. Mvp is GOAT solely on the fact that he was the first 'Best in the World' and history counts (similar to how BoxeR is considered a GOAT). soO at #2 is due to his ridiculous consistency to compete at a high level. So weighted towards active players you have Zest twice. As opposed to a lot of people who don't even have him in once, which is just as absurd. Obviously it's all subjective. But I do think Zest is the obvious pick as #1 protoss. I don't see any reason to put another above him, or have him missing on a top 10 list. His 2014 might be the best year of any player to date, except Mvp's 2011 depending on how you look at it. INnovation's 2017 wasn't bad, with 2 starleagues and a weekender, or even 2 weekender since IEM Ggyeongji was part of 2017 season.
I'd still say Zest's 2014 was better than Inno's 2017. Zest's worst result in a korean tournament for the whole year was a single ro8. Every other tournament he won or got ro4 in. The duel starleague is sick however, barely anyone has done that.
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Now that's my kind of list
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Why you hating on Mvp?
On March 20 2018 07:30 Cricketer12 wrote:Naniwa at 7? Wtf
Naniwa's personality did a good job of hiding the fact he didn't really win much.
HuK, Scarlett, and Snute all won more championships than Naniwa.
Maybe this poster prizes championships particularly highly (though by that logic Soo wouldn't be 2nd so I dunno.
Personally, I sometimes rank HuK above Naniwa. Dallas and Raliegh cancel eachother out (no Koreans so they're not worth talking about). Then HuK's got HSC3, Orlando, and Dreamhack where Naniwa has... That one invitational where he went beast mode and beat Mvp and Nestea. That was dope, but it's one tournament championship compared to HuK's 2 or 3 depending on whether you consider HSC3 to be premier or not.
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On March 20 2018 08:54 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 08:17 Mun_Su wrote:On March 20 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 03:28 Olli wrote:On March 20 2018 02:49 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2018 02:31 SAFenix wrote:1. Mvp2. soO3. INnoVation4. Zest5. Life6. MMA7. Zest8. Rain9. Maru10. DarkMy list is definitely weighted towards active players, as I believe longevity is important in success. Mvp is GOAT solely on the fact that he was the first 'Best in the World' and history counts (similar to how BoxeR is considered a GOAT). soO at #2 is due to his ridiculous consistency to compete at a high level. So weighted towards active players you have Zest twice. As opposed to a lot of people who don't even have him in once, which is just as absurd. Obviously it's all subjective. But I do think Zest is the obvious pick as #1 protoss. I don't see any reason to put another above him, or have him missing on a top 10 list. His 2014 might be the best year of any player to date, except Mvp's 2011 depending on how you look at it. INnovation's 2017 wasn't bad, with 2 starleagues and a weekender, or even 2 weekender since IEM Ggyeongji was part of 2017 season. I'd still say Zest's 2014 was better than Inno's 2017. Zest's worst result in a korean tournament for the whole year was a single ro8. Every other tournament he won or got ro4 in. The duel starleague is sick however, barely anyone has done that.
I guess it's all point of view then; still 2 awesome years for these players.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On March 20 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 03:28 Olli wrote:On March 20 2018 02:49 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2018 02:31 SAFenix wrote:1. Mvp2. soO3. INnoVation4. Zest5. Life6. MMA7. Zest8. Rain9. Maru10. DarkMy list is definitely weighted towards active players, as I believe longevity is important in success. Mvp is GOAT solely on the fact that he was the first 'Best in the World' and history counts (similar to how BoxeR is considered a GOAT). soO at #2 is due to his ridiculous consistency to compete at a high level. So weighted towards active players you have Zest twice. As opposed to a lot of people who don't even have him in once, which is just as absurd. Obviously it's all subjective. But I do think Zest is the obvious pick as #1 protoss. I don't see any reason to put another above him, or have him missing on a top 10 list. His 2014 might be the best year of any player to date, except Mvp's 2011 depending on how you look at it. Both MC and Parting had longer eras. e.g. bOth of them getting into RO8 when BL infestor was in its prime. While Zest is in the top5 of all time for sure, it's hard. MC & Parting have earlier starts which gives them the advantage and Parting was a beast even when Zest was around. Then it's just subjective how do you rank sOs, Zest, Parting, MC and Stats. And since this is about 10 players only 3 of them can get in.
And while Zest has the nicest body of them all, MC has better singing and probably all of them have better macro than Zest.
In my case it's personal feelings, MC gave me mothersip, 4 carriers, templars, 2-4 colossi & void ray composition to fight BL infestor(it worked quite nicely on most of the maps), Parting gave me the Templar opening. Rain gave me turtle-toss. Zest is a really beautiful dude, but that's not enough for me
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What a dumb bw elitist post :D
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On March 20 2018 17:20 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 03:28 Olli wrote:On March 20 2018 02:49 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2018 02:31 SAFenix wrote:1. Mvp2. soO3. INnoVation4. Zest5. Life6. MMA7. Zest8. Rain9. Maru10. DarkMy list is definitely weighted towards active players, as I believe longevity is important in success. Mvp is GOAT solely on the fact that he was the first 'Best in the World' and history counts (similar to how BoxeR is considered a GOAT). soO at #2 is due to his ridiculous consistency to compete at a high level. So weighted towards active players you have Zest twice. As opposed to a lot of people who don't even have him in once, which is just as absurd. Obviously it's all subjective. But I do think Zest is the obvious pick as #1 protoss. I don't see any reason to put another above him, or have him missing on a top 10 list. His 2014 might be the best year of any player to date, except Mvp's 2011 depending on how you look at it. Both MC and Parting had longer eras. e.g. bOth of them getting into RO8 when BL infestor was in its prime. While Zest is in the top5 of all time for sure, it's hard. MC & Parting have earlier starts which gives them the advantage and Parting was a beast even when Zest was around. Then it's just subjective how do you rank sOs, Zest, Parting, MC and Stats. And since this is about 10 players only 3 of them can get in. And while Zest has the nicest body of them all, MC has better singing and probably all of them have better macro than Zest. In my case it's personal feelings, MC gave me mothersip, 4 carriers, templars, 2-4 colossi & void ray composition to fight BL infestor(it worked quite nicely on most of the maps), Parting gave me the Templar opening. Rain gave me turtle-toss. Zest is a really beautiful dude, but that's not enough for me I love PartinG and he's my favourite protoss of all time but he just doesn't have the results to justify putting him in the top 10.
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Austria24413 Posts
On March 20 2018 18:12 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 17:20 deacon.frost wrote:On March 20 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 03:28 Olli wrote:On March 20 2018 02:49 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2018 02:31 SAFenix wrote:1. Mvp2. soO3. INnoVation4. Zest5. Life6. MMA7. Zest8. Rain9. Maru10. DarkMy list is definitely weighted towards active players, as I believe longevity is important in success. Mvp is GOAT solely on the fact that he was the first 'Best in the World' and history counts (similar to how BoxeR is considered a GOAT). soO at #2 is due to his ridiculous consistency to compete at a high level. So weighted towards active players you have Zest twice. As opposed to a lot of people who don't even have him in once, which is just as absurd. Obviously it's all subjective. But I do think Zest is the obvious pick as #1 protoss. I don't see any reason to put another above him, or have him missing on a top 10 list. His 2014 might be the best year of any player to date, except Mvp's 2011 depending on how you look at it. Both MC and Parting had longer eras. e.g. bOth of them getting into RO8 when BL infestor was in its prime. While Zest is in the top5 of all time for sure, it's hard. MC & Parting have earlier starts which gives them the advantage and Parting was a beast even when Zest was around. Then it's just subjective how do you rank sOs, Zest, Parting, MC and Stats. And since this is about 10 players only 3 of them can get in. And while Zest has the nicest body of them all, MC has better singing and probably all of them have better macro than Zest. In my case it's personal feelings, MC gave me mothersip, 4 carriers, templars, 2-4 colossi & void ray composition to fight BL infestor(it worked quite nicely on most of the maps), Parting gave me the Templar opening. Rain gave me turtle-toss. Zest is a really beautiful dude, but that's not enough for me I love PartinG and he's my favourite protoss of all time but he just doesn't have the results to justify putting him in the top 10.
Zest cannot be compared to Parting. You're talking about someone who's never won in Korea vs someone who holds the record for Protoss GSLs (tied with MC if you don't count Global Ch.), the record for most KR championships won by Protoss overall, and the longest and highest peak of any Protoss in the game. Sorry but there's no justifiable argument to put Parting above Zest.
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On March 20 2018 18:23 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2018 18:12 Charoisaur wrote:On March 20 2018 17:20 deacon.frost wrote:On March 20 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On March 20 2018 03:28 Olli wrote:On March 20 2018 02:49 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2018 02:31 SAFenix wrote:1. Mvp2. soO3. INnoVation4. Zest5. Life6. MMA7. Zest8. Rain9. Maru10. DarkMy list is definitely weighted towards active players, as I believe longevity is important in success. Mvp is GOAT solely on the fact that he was the first 'Best in the World' and history counts (similar to how BoxeR is considered a GOAT). soO at #2 is due to his ridiculous consistency to compete at a high level. So weighted towards active players you have Zest twice. As opposed to a lot of people who don't even have him in once, which is just as absurd. Obviously it's all subjective. But I do think Zest is the obvious pick as #1 protoss. I don't see any reason to put another above him, or have him missing on a top 10 list. His 2014 might be the best year of any player to date, except Mvp's 2011 depending on how you look at it. Both MC and Parting had longer eras. e.g. bOth of them getting into RO8 when BL infestor was in its prime. While Zest is in the top5 of all time for sure, it's hard. MC & Parting have earlier starts which gives them the advantage and Parting was a beast even when Zest was around. Then it's just subjective how do you rank sOs, Zest, Parting, MC and Stats. And since this is about 10 players only 3 of them can get in. And while Zest has the nicest body of them all, MC has better singing and probably all of them have better macro than Zest. In my case it's personal feelings, MC gave me mothersip, 4 carriers, templars, 2-4 colossi & void ray composition to fight BL infestor(it worked quite nicely on most of the maps), Parting gave me the Templar opening. Rain gave me turtle-toss. Zest is a really beautiful dude, but that's not enough for me I love PartinG and he's my favourite protoss of all time but he just doesn't have the results to justify putting him in the top 10. Zest cannot be compared to Parting. You're talking about someone who's never won in Korea vs someone who holds the record for Protoss GSLs (tied with MC if you don't count Global Ch.), the record for most KR championships won by Protoss overall, and the longest and highest peak of any Protoss in the game. Sorry but there's no justifiable argument to put Parting above Zest.
Personally I don't count GSL Global Championship or GSL World etc as Starleague titles... but still winning 2 GSL in 2014 is more difficult than winning 2 GSL in 2010 and 2011.
As for Parting, he had the raw skills and the big mouth, but the results never backed that.
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If anyone cares to calculate how often terran players are mentioned and compares that to how many players are in fact playing terran (US/EU, or alternatively compare to how many GSL wins by terran or whatever - you pick), then you get real numbers about the liquid bias. That would be of greater interest than that GOAT thing, as we all know on TL only a terran can be GOAT ever, lol.
Here my list:
1. Life! ;D 2. TaeJa 3. Maru 4. BitByBitPrime 5. Boxer 5. LSN (with offrace terran) 7. Flash 8. INnoVation 9. MajOr 10. uThermal
hf
PS: delete noob race a-move from game please1 PPS: if you can't beat em, join em1
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On March 21 2018 01:37 LSN wrote:If anyone cares to calculate how often terran players are mentioned and compares that to how many players are in fact playing terran (US/EU, or alternatively compare to how many GSL wins by terran or whatever - you pick), then you get real numbers about the liquid bias. That would be of greater interest than that GOAT thing, as we all know on TL only a terran can be GOAT ever, lol. Here my list: 1. Life! ;D 2. TaeJa3. Maru4. BitByBitPrime5. Boxer5. LSN (with offrace terran) 7. Flash8. INnoVation9. MajOr10. uThermalhf p.s: delete noob race a-move from game please1 Agreed. Remove terran asap
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Canada8771 Posts
On March 20 2018 07:30 Cricketer12 wrote:Naniwa at 7? Wtf
Also WTF is Has doing there? He isn't even the best tawainese players. Also Lilbow and Elazer deserve to be above MajOr in my mind but that's open to discution.
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On March 20 2018 07:30 Cricketer12 wrote:Naniwa at 7? Wtf What does Greatest Of All Time mean? What is greatness for you? From my point of view, behaving improperly grants negative points. Destroying Proleague too, that's why that Zerg player is not in my GOAT list.
On March 20 2018 08:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Also, I love how International = Please No Koreans! "International" in contrast with the real GOAT list, which is "Intranational" :-) "Foreigner" is a word I dislike.
On March 20 2018 14:06 TheDougler wrote: Naniwa's personality did a good job of hiding the fact he didn't really win much.
HuK, Scarlett, and Snute all won more championships than Naniwa.
Maybe this poster prizes championships particularly highly (though by that logic Soo wouldn't be 2nd so I dunno).
You're totally right regarding Naniwa, he did not win as much as many people feel he did. We just spoke more about him. soO is 2nd in my list because ... well...
On March 21 2018 02:09 Nakajin wrote: Also WTF is Has doing there? He isn't even the best tawainese players. Also Lilbow and Elazer deserve to be above MajOr in my mind but that's open to discution. Has is there because Has is great, and this is a greatness list.
Feel all free to post your own International ranking so that I can discuss about it also...
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Korea: 1. Mvp 2. INnoVation 3. Life 4. TaeJa 5. sOs 6. soO 7. MC 8. PartinG 9. Polt 10. Classic Honorable Mentions: Zest, MMA, Rain, Bomber, herO, MarineKing, NesTea
International: 1. Stephano 2. Neeb 3. NaNiwa 4. Snute 5. Serral 6. Scarlett 7. Nerchio 8. Sen 9. Elazer 10. HuK Honorable Mentions: IdrA, MajOr, Has, VortiX, LucifroN
RIP NO TERRANS IN TOP10 FOREIGNERS. + Show Spoiler +Graded based on overall tournament success, longevity and consistency, and overall skill ceiling and potential during their respective careers.
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