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On March 26 2015 21:54 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 21:53 GreenHorizons wrote: Considering none of the reports mentioned the Captain actually punching in the code or the alarm from it going off there's a good chance the guy passed out. Which considering the typical hours these guys work (at least in the US) would be the more logical explanation. Provided there is a way to explain the descent. Like passing out onto the stick or something from exhaustion. It wasn't a flight stick, it was a button that needed to be pressed. They said that they are sure he did it on purpose, which suggests to me that it it would be an utterly extraordinary coincidence if it was an accident due to him passing out.
Well I think that might be a stretch. I think what they are saying is that a button had to be pressed. I don't know that it is located/designed in such a way that it would be impossible to be toggled by a hand falling from a stomach or something.
Still if someone kills 150 people with them on purpose they have a reason and they didn't mean for it to be a secret. That there hasn't been any hint of a reason makes me think this wasn't on purpose.
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On March 26 2015 21:59 TurboMaN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 21:51 plgElwood wrote: Apperantly there is has not yet been an attempt on hijacking a plane since 9/11 that was prevented by unbreachable door. (The door can not be opened with fireaxe or the service-trolley or anything aboard), but now 2 suicidal Pilots took around 180 people with them to death because they could lock themselves in the cockpit
So the overreaction to the singular event of 9/11 has not only caused Millions paid for reinforced doors, but also cost life.
Wait, at the moment it seems to be ONE suicide co-pilot, the experienced pilot was trying to get back into the cockpit.
jaeh he not rly checked facts -_- when you try to break somethign thats not breakable until the end ... must be so hard for the pilot knowing whats coming ... cant do shit about it
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On March 26 2015 21:53 GreenHorizons wrote: Considering none of the reports mentioned the Captain actually punching in the code or the alarm from it going off there's a good chance the guy passed out. Which considering the typical hours these guys work (at least in the US) would be the more logical explanation. Provided there is a way to explain the descent. Like passing out onto the stick or something from exhaustion.
Sadly the "Flight Monitor System" can not be operated by accident, you have to turn a knob 360° to confirm actions.
Also just leaning against the flight stick would be preventend by the computers + if not would result in uncontrolled not linear loss of altitude, and the Prosecutor also said they heard noise that matches the First Officers manipulation of autopilot. If the guy had passed out, the security code would have most likely worked and the door buzzer would have gone off in alarm, BUT if the FO had hold down the "lock switch" on prupose, code panel is disabled and Buzzer wents silent for at least 5 min.
Edit:
On March 26 2015 22:00 Drake wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 21:59 TurboMaN wrote:On March 26 2015 21:51 plgElwood wrote: Apperantly there is has not yet been an attempt on hijacking a plane since 9/11 that was prevented by unbreachable door. (The door can not be opened with fireaxe or the service-trolley or anything aboard), but now 2 suicidal Pilots took around 180 people with them to death because they could lock themselves in the cockpit
So the overreaction to the singular event of 9/11 has not only caused Millions paid for reinforced doors, but also cost life.
Wait, at the moment it seems to be ONE suicide co-pilot, the experienced pilot was trying to get back into the cockpit. jaeh he not rly checked facts -_- when you try to break somethign thats not breakable until the end ... must be so hard for the pilot knowing whats coming ... cant do shit about it
I was refering to another flight November 2013:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAM_Mozambique_Airlines_Flight_470
Same scenario. One pilot went out, other locked the door, set autopilot for altitude below groundlevel, went full speed and crashed.
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On March 26 2015 22:00 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 21:54 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 26 2015 21:53 GreenHorizons wrote: Considering none of the reports mentioned the Captain actually punching in the code or the alarm from it going off there's a good chance the guy passed out. Which considering the typical hours these guys work (at least in the US) would be the more logical explanation. Provided there is a way to explain the descent. Like passing out onto the stick or something from exhaustion. It wasn't a flight stick, it was a button that needed to be pressed. They said that they are sure he did it on purpose, which suggests to me that it it would be an utterly extraordinary coincidence if it was an accident due to him passing out. Well I think that might be a stretch. I think what they are saying is that a button had to be pressed. I don't know that it is located/designed in such a way that it would be impossible to be toggled by a hand falling from a stomach or something. Still if someone kills 150 people with them on purpose they have a reason and they didn't mean for it to be a secret. That there hasn't been any hint of a reason makes me think this wasn't on purpose.
its not doable by accident, ALSO he locked the door ! normaly the pilot can go back in with a passcode so the copilot locked the door totaly and then activated a hard switch to go down ... nothing that can be done by accident, also hearing him breathing normaly means he wasnt passed out
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On March 26 2015 21:54 SixStrings wrote: Not sure what you're trying to say. What does 'breathing normally' mean? Do you breath differently when you're unconscious? Does being unconscious lead to a more discernable change in breathing patterns than staring into the face of death does? Legitimate question, no sarcasm.
Most ways to go unconscious in a short time (suffocating, toxic fumes, rapid pressure loss) involve messing with breathing in some way. And aside from the pilot forgetting the security code for the door there's no way the co-pilot could've had him locked out had he been unconscious.
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United Kingdom36154 Posts
Should stop calling him a suicide-pilot, and use the more accurate term, massmurdering-pilot
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On March 26 2015 22:00 plgElwood wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 21:53 GreenHorizons wrote: Considering none of the reports mentioned the Captain actually punching in the code or the alarm from it going off there's a good chance the guy passed out. Which considering the typical hours these guys work (at least in the US) would be the more logical explanation. Provided there is a way to explain the descent. Like passing out onto the stick or something from exhaustion. Sadly the "Flight Monitor System" can not be operated by accident, you have to turn a knob 360° to confirm actions. Also just leaning against the flight stick would be preventend by the computers + if not would result in uncontrolled not linear loss of altitude, and the Prosecutor also said they heard noise that matches the First Officers manipulation of autopilot. If the guy had passed out, the security code would have most likely worked and the door buzzer would have gone off in alarm, BUT if the FO had hold down the "lock switch" on prupose, code panel is disabled and Buzzer wents silent for at least 5 min.
Well if that's all true it certainly sounds intentional. The piece that doesn't make sense is why. Not that it would be any justification but people don't kill 150 people with themselves for no reason. The guy must of been trying to make a point to someone about something. Hard for me to imagine no one has a clue.
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On March 26 2015 22:06 marvellosity wrote: Should stop calling him a suicide-pilot, and use the more accurate term, massmurdering-pilot
Wait for the facts to come out, and then call him what you want.
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Zurich15272 Posts
I have two friends at LH. They confirmed all the public information about the door mechanism. They also said the door is not indestructible, and there is a crowbar and an axe available which would be enough to break it.
During training, being locked out from the cockpit is actually a scenario they cover. However, standard procedure is to assume no malintent from the pilot. So that is probably why they tried "softer" methods first, before getting out axe or crowbar - which might have been too late (speculation).
On March 26 2015 22:06 marvellosity wrote: Should stop calling him a suicide-pilot, and use the more accurate term, massmurdering-pilot SERIOUSLY.
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United Kingdom36154 Posts
On March 26 2015 22:06 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 22:06 marvellosity wrote: Should stop calling him a suicide-pilot, and use the more accurate term, massmurdering-pilot Wait for the facts to come out, and then call him what you want.
On March 26 2015 21:51 Jockmcplop wrote: Don't make assumptions, we know very little at the moment. All we know is that he voluntarily crashed the plane.
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On March 26 2015 21:48 pretender58 wrote: Andreas Lubitz
I bet our government is broken hearted about this. If his name were 'Abdul Mohammad', they could use this so much more easily to force even more surveillance down our throats...
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On March 26 2015 22:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 22:00 plgElwood wrote:On March 26 2015 21:53 GreenHorizons wrote: Considering none of the reports mentioned the Captain actually punching in the code or the alarm from it going off there's a good chance the guy passed out. Which considering the typical hours these guys work (at least in the US) would be the more logical explanation. Provided there is a way to explain the descent. Like passing out onto the stick or something from exhaustion. Sadly the "Flight Monitor System" can not be operated by accident, you have to turn a knob 360° to confirm actions. Also just leaning against the flight stick would be preventend by the computers + if not would result in uncontrolled not linear loss of altitude, and the Prosecutor also said they heard noise that matches the First Officers manipulation of autopilot. If the guy had passed out, the security code would have most likely worked and the door buzzer would have gone off in alarm, BUT if the FO had hold down the "lock switch" on prupose, code panel is disabled and Buzzer wents silent for at least 5 min. Well if that's all true it certainly sounds intentional. The piece that doesn't make sense is why. Not that it would be any justification but people don't kill 150 people with themselves for no reason. The guy must of been trying to make a point to someone about something. Hard for me to imagine no one has a clue.
He either owed money, had huge relationship issues or had a psychosis. It will be revealed in few days, don't worry...
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On March 26 2015 22:07 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 22:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 26 2015 22:06 marvellosity wrote: Should stop calling him a suicide-pilot, and use the more accurate term, massmurdering-pilot Wait for the facts to come out, and then call him what you want. Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 21:51 Jockmcplop wrote: Don't make assumptions, we know very little at the moment. All we know is that he voluntarily crashed the plane.
Yes. What do you know about this guy? What do you know about psychology? Ever heard of someone going crazy temporarily? Do you know the definition of murder? Have you ever heard of a situation where someone has been forced to do something they don't want to do because of threats to their family etc.
I'm going to spell this out really really simply for you so you don't have to passive aggressively multi quote me again:
All we know is the sequence of events that occurred on the plane. Don't make a full judgement until you have the full facts.
It could well be that the guy was completely insane and should never have been let on a plane in the first place, in which case the airline is responsible for the manslaughter.
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On March 26 2015 22:08 SixStrings wrote:I bet our government is broken hearted about this. If his name were 'Abdul Mohammad', they could use this so much more easily to force even more surveillance down our throats...
Not quite. Now you get more surveillance. Because it's not just Abdul Mohammad's that will crash planes killing over 100 people, now it's Andreas, and Mr Lubitz's too.
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United Kingdom36154 Posts
On March 26 2015 22:10 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 22:07 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2015 22:06 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 26 2015 22:06 marvellosity wrote: Should stop calling him a suicide-pilot, and use the more accurate term, massmurdering-pilot Wait for the facts to come out, and then call him what you want. On March 26 2015 21:51 Jockmcplop wrote: Don't make assumptions, we know very little at the moment. All we know is that he voluntarily crashed the plane. Yes. What do you know about this guy? What do you know about psychology? Ever heard of someone going crazy temporarily? Do you know the definition of murder? Have you ever heard of a situation where someone has been forced to do something they don't want to do because of threats to their family etc. I'm going to spell this out really really simply for you so you don't have to passive aggressively multi quote me again: All we know is the sequence of events that occurred on the plane. Don't make a full judgement until you have the full facts.It could well be that the guy was completely insane and should never have been let on a plane in the first place, in which case the airline is responsible for the manslaughter. Fine, masskiller-pilot, masstakingthelivesofinnocentpeople-pilot, if the semantics definition pleases you.
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This is one of the most chilling airplane related news since 9/11. A rogue pilot purposely crashing a plane into a mountain? Sends shiver down my spine
EDIT: I guess there were other precedent of this kind of act, but I guess I wasn't aware.
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Northern Ireland22201 Posts
apparently the voice recorder picked up the screaming of the passengers as they realised what was happening
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My questions still stands. The french military knew there was no attempt of communication from inside the plane. There was a fighter jet already in the air. Under which circumstances can an european/french jet shoot a normal plane? What if this plane takes course to Paris?
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