EPTXXX Mini Mafia: A Night of Debauchery (18+) - Page 312
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
This could have been so easy. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
##vote Eden | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 21 2015 03:49 Palmar wrote: Why wouldn't Marv frame himself green having just led a mislynch? Cuz marv still wasn't gonna be checked bro Although now that I think about it, he would always frame himself town. Highest EV esp with Onegu gf. SORRY I TRIED  it wasn't as good as I thought. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
When I'm mafia, I am really really inflexible with my reads. Check NYE Mini and Neebie 55. I get something that sounds good and I milk it for everything it's worth. There is an obvious lack of intellectual curiosity in my reads bc I have nothing to be curious about. Look at all my posts this game. Do they look like someone who's inflexible with his reads? Do they look like someone coasting on something that sounded good once? I feel like the fire is clearly there even to an outsider reading. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
The case of much grandiose. Palmar is town Written by: Pálmar Presented by Pálmar Chapter 3: The Doomsday Device As day 3 started I knew I had to do something. The night had been a pretty slow one for me being on a weekend and people seemed very much okay with the idea of lynching me. I know the feeling all too well. I went with a two-pronged approach, because in addition to avoiding a lynch, I really wanted to lynch mafia this day. I started off pointing out why I am town and questioning people about their scumreads on me. On March 16 2015 07:13 Palmar wrote: Since like... forever. While somewhat outdated because I'm aware of it, one of my massive towntells is that I get confused, hedge my bets and in general am very uncertain and tentative when I'm town, the exception is when I set my mind to something "I'm going to get this lynch." As mafia I used to overplay my hand in terms of confidence quite a bit. At this point rayn kind of randomly called me not mafia, which I liked. I got into a huge discussion with marv, who was apparently frustrated that I wasn't townreading him. On March 16 2015 07:20 Palmar wrote: Well, think about it. If I somehow got shot, however unlikely, I wanted people to take a hard look at you. If I survive, I get to stay in the game to actually make an informed decision. It's completely logical to do exactly what I did. Why not? That is how it almost always goes between us. In fact just yesterday you said I was townie for the way I treated you. I am allowed to call you mafia, and this treatment you're giving me makes you more likely to be one. I am allowed to do exactly what I'm doing because it's exactly what I do when I'm town. You know this marv. How are you going to react? I don't think I wanna. I know I have a massive sweet spot for people who are reasonable when it comes to my alignment (think Damdred in Imperial), but I still can't make myself double think the fact that he has correctly determined my alignment. And I tried just straight up explaining to him why I was having my doubts about him. On March 16 2015 07:34 Palmar wrote: Because of that blink song. There are multiple small weird things about you. I'll name the ones I have off the top of my head. 1) The rsoultin kill incriminates you (I know this is bad and terrible but stay with me). If we think about the possible kills during that night the only other viable one would be rayn. Koshi is probably getting medic protected, I am trolling and being shit, Eden was shit day 1 etc etc. You are the sensible night 1 kill. If I am mafia I shoot you every time there. 2) You said that you would not have lead the JAT wagon lead for so long without doing something about it or jumping on it to gain credit. Maybe my assumptions are off, but I really disagreed with you on that. I just didn't have the energy to argue with you at the time and I was not sure (I'm still not). I would expect you to do EXACTLY this, basically don't rock the boat too much and see if JAT could turn it around, then hop on if he was dying anyway. 3) You have not been assertive or made any hard reads this game except on two people, one of them is ritoky which was quite wrong, and the other is prplhz. Hard reading koshi and LS town doesn't really count because well, it's easy as fuck, hell the LS read was MY read. 4) talking about the hard reads, you were wrong on ritoky. I know you are occasionally wrong but you seem rather unfazed by it. I also have a hard time believing you'd be wrong on ritoky, then turn around and be wrong on me next, after not having lead town on day 1. This would be your third "shit" day in a row. 5) You did explain your prplhz read, I never double checked it. However I did notice that the substantial parts of the read that I actually believe, all came long after you had started townreading him. That being said, the parts I didn't really care about, the metrics, did in fact happen before you made your read for the most part so meh. Still... so many small things. Like Blink182  Which caused marv to go into a strange emotional defense mode that again made me waffle. On March 16 2015 08:11 Palmar wrote: I almost want to give marv the benefit of the doubt he wouldn't appeal this hard to emotion as scum. For some reason I can't really remember there was a wagon on rayn at this point, and for some reason I also can't remember I was opposed to it. On March 16 2015 09:21 Palmar wrote: I am not convinced rayn is mafia. But there is plenty of time to find out. Right before I went to sleep Onegu called me mafia and I responded to him: On March 16 2015 09:22 Palmar wrote: Why would you lynch me Onegu? On March 16 2015 09:22 Palmar wrote: Quick response please When I woke up in the morning I wasn't satisfied with his reasoning which was mostly just PoE so I voted him and carried on. On March 16 2015 18:45 Palmar wrote: ##unvote ##vote Onegu For wanting to lynch me without having a reason to do so. I then started diving filters while simultaneously keeping a conversation with marv and to some extent prplhz and koshi. In general just talking in the thread. Right at the start of prplhz's filter he defended JAT so I decided to put my vote on him while reading more On March 16 2015 19:37 Palmar wrote: Apparently I was overstating marv's townread on prplhz, so much that he felt like he needed to correct me in saying prplhz is guaranteed town. This caused me to start reading prplhz's filter which I'm not nearly done with but I saw these posts: It's not the fact he was wrong, it just feels out of place to defend someone this super early in the game. I think I also was one of the first to mention On March 16 2015 20:22 Palmar wrote: CENSORED We got into some stupid argument about the validity of prplhz's meta point, but the general feeling I got from both marv and koshi was that they didn't particularly want to pitch ideas back and forth and discuss them, something I believed I sorely needed at that time. On March 16 2015 21:01 Palmar wrote: Tell me why Onegu is mafia? On my "not lynch list" at the moment (this is a very fluid list) Palmar Koshi prplhz FF That leaves Eden rayn Marv Onegu This was at the time my state of the game, prplhz pulled himself out of the gutter because I genuinely believed he got mad at me for suggesting he was mafia. This list would (if I recall) change often and rapidly. more waffling on marv On March 16 2015 21:45 Palmar wrote: I still can't shake this weird feeling that marv is sort of fine with this game being a bit of a train wreck. Like I can't quite explain it and I'm not going to call him mafia for it, but it's just this weird feeling I have. Marv and I would go back to arguing for a long time like we do. The perceived stonewalling from the beginning of the phase added one more thing I wanted to kill him for. Remember my "state of the game" post from chapter 2? Where I strive to be okay with the simple solution. Well on day 3 I wasn't okay with it. Of course in hindsight it was terrible to abandon my instincts because they didn't demand a big enough play, but it was truly how I felt. On March 17 2015 01:31 Palmar wrote: Like just to make you feel uncomfortable about it, I really want to kill onegu too. The problem here is that I feel like that would be conceding to the "simple" solution, which I guess isn't a bad thing. It just feels wrong to do it. And even then, who is his partner? FF? Eden? Also it's worth noting that around this time Koshi started trying to call me mafia for being all over the place, while I think for the most part I had at least flimsy reasons for being all over the place. He completely ignored that I really didn't have to be doing what I was doing. This describes pretty much how I felt that day: On March 17 2015 07:01 Palmar wrote: Also, I don't want to kill onegu unless I'm sure, because I know if I don't hit mafia today, I'm 100% fucked because of massive lynch inertia. I, more than anyone else, need a mafia lynch today. Also here is my (quite clever) point about why onegu's soul read was inherently scummy: On March 17 2015 07:10 Palmar wrote: I don't really know Onegu that well. Generally he seems sort of too trolly to be mafia. On the other hand, the fact that he: 1. promised read on rayn 2. delivered read on rayn is actually really scummy, because he framed his play and then played exactly to fit that frame. Like it's not an organic read at all, it's manufactured. As the day went on Koshi and marv became more responsive and I was no longer a primary lynch candidate, which was a nice change. Just before I slept I summarized my thoughts and stuck my vote on Onegu. On March 17 2015 07:48 Palmar wrote: I need to do things and then sleep. I feel like today I've established that I don't want to lynch me/koshi/ff, marv is a wildcard, I want to lynch onegu and prplhz I'm somewhere in the middle, leaning towards not lynching. tomorrow I will read rayn and eden and come to some kind of a conclusion. I'll probably refresh before sleeping so I can answer whatever you might ask. On March 17 2015 07:52 Palmar wrote: oh and ##unvote ##vote Onegu I want to point out that the thread all but stopped while I slept, causing my first post after I woke up to be a sarcastic remark about that. On March 17 2015 17:33 Palmar wrote: Good talk while I slept guys And here is my gamestate, once again. On March 17 2015 18:39 Palmar wrote: To follow up on this, I went to sleep last night feeling fairly confident rayn is town. I am going to summarize what I'm talking about here later today (I've got two meetings etc coming up, so I can't right now). So until further notice, rayn is off the lynch table, and my table looks like this: Do not lynch: Koshi FF rayn Maaybe lynch (but probably not) prplhz Wildcard bitches! marv Lynch: Onegu I need to read Eden, he's the one I have done little to none work on. @Eden I didn't notice you answering my question regarding your comment about marv/jat interaction from back on day 1. At this point I ramped up arguing with marv. You see, the perceived slights from yesterday had festered as I slept and now I was mad at him so I really, really dug into him. On March 17 2015 23:27 Palmar wrote: Like the way he treats himself in comparison to JAT feels very much not mafia because it's not really a bus, more of a self-defense, when with perfect information he would probably be tempted to actually bus here. I did give eden a townread here for this one post. Notice that for the most part Eden has been the player in the game that I have ignored, which often means mafia, but this post was actually quite good. I don't think I ever really explained it, but exactly why koshi thinks rayn is town this day is something I had discovered back on day 3, which caused me to put rayn in my not lynch lists throughout most of that day after voting him near the beginning of the phase. As the phase closed in on us Marv slowly became more open to lynching prplhz which caused me to scale back my townread on him. Koshi was actively calling for his lynch but I wasn't quite convinced yet. And I just really wanted to lynch marv. On March 18 2015 06:12 Palmar wrote: This one? Like I keep trying to reconcile your thing you did when I was trying to get discussion going with you with you being town. It doesn't fit. If you think I'm town, you know that I can be a half-decent scumhunter when I put my mind to it and you know I can help you. In addition you don't seem very confident in your read of the state of the game so in theory you do need help. So even if I'm a flawed town player, I'm not terrible. There is literally no reason for you as town to instead of repeatedly going "I can't take anything you say seriously" to just extend a hand and see what is out there. On the other hand, if you think I'm mafia, there is obviously no point in talking to me, but why didn't you say so then? That would've been much easier. Eden thing: On March 18 2015 06:41 Palmar wrote: Why is Eden checking out of this shitshow! I thought this would be right up his alley Of all the townies, my townread on Eden was the weakest one and I just had this eeire feeling that he was never around when it kinda mattered. ... And then. On March 18 2015 06:44 marvellosity wrote: Palmar is town. Eden is mafia. Suddenly everything turned upside down. Marv finally gave me that townread I really wanted from him. I moved my vote to eden when the train on him started and I was completely serious about it at the time. I agreed he came awkwardly into the thread, marv gave me a townread and we had a good thing going. Also, the hedging was real On March 18 2015 06:56 Palmar wrote: This has like a 1% chance of actually working. But at least it's quality TV. But the Eden thing disintegrated and at the last minute I switched back to marv. On March 18 2015 06:59 Palmar wrote: ##unvote ##vote marv Notice the timing. I didn't even have the slightest illusion that marv was actually going to get lynched. If I'm mafia here with Onegu I just park my vote on him because well... I'd been calling him mafia all day so why not? I still decided we needed to lynch marv tomorrow so I said so before sleeping. On March 18 2015 07:06 Palmar wrote: we're having ourselves marv-pie tomorrow. I trolled around a bit in the night and also got a bit mad that Eden made an entire case on me based on something all the mafia said. On March 18 2015 17:40 Palmar wrote: You say that as you make a case on me who is confirmed town. And something remarkable happened during the night. I actually WAFFLED on marv, would you believe that? On March 19 2015 00:59 Palmar wrote: I'm so sad that marv loves rayn more than me that now I'm like questioning the marv-pie because this is the most genuine he's been all game trying to figure shit out. also I'm a bit sad that I literally said onegu was mafia but voted with my heart instead of with my brain. I tried to take the day off, but I really didn't do that much. It seemed during the night that prplhz was going to end up the lynch. Shoutout to rayn for 29 pages into the game, 15-ish of which I had produced in the last 72 hours was still calling me lazy. Over the night Eden again managed to win my trust. On March 19 2015 05:41 Palmar wrote: Like I feel like I'm going to get somewhat vindicated unless Eden (or rayn, I guess, but I'm sorta ignoring that option) is mafia. If it's Eden I've been pushing townies left and right and now I'm talking myself into townreading scum again. If it's rayn Koshi and Eden are somewhat vindicated (and marv from day 1 I suppose). If it's FF we lose and everyone is shit. If it's Koshi we lose and everyone is shit. If it's marv I'm super vindicated and town hero if it's prplhz at least my primary reason for starting to suspect marv was legit as fuck. Then day broke... Stay tuned for chapter 4: Redemption (working title, we're also thinking of armageddon, depending on a few factors). | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
Eden1892 (5): Koshi, raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, prplhz, Palmer Palmer (0): raynpelikoneet (1): Eden1892 Not Voting (0): Currently Eden1892 is set to be punished. Day 3 ends in | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##VOTE: prplhz | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On March 21 2015 05:46 Eden1892 wrote: ##UNVOTE ##VOTE: prplhz I love it. Please flip mafia bro. Please. I don't know if I can do this anymore. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Player-by-Player Analysis raynpelikoneet: Don't lynch this guy. I had a lot of time to think about it after my phone got taken away, because being a host is really boring. Really. Really. Boring. If he is mafia, it's because of the things I said earlier that no one really listened to. But he caught both mafia and I feel like his frustration at varying points in the game has been pretty townie. I am coming around to the idea that him busing both partners + 40pg filter = unlikely mafia. Yeah, I know, I should have come around to it a while before. Whatever. Don't hate just cuz I explored all opportunities. Palmar: Don't lynch this guy. I think he is also town. It's kinda difficult for me to believe he writes this huge 4-part tell-all defense of himself and tries this hard to get the win as mafia. It's not beyond his capability, but it still just seems unlikely. Whatever you do DON'T JUST BE LAZY AND LYNCH HIM TOMORROW WITHOUT THINKING THROUGH OTHER ALTERNATIVES. I can understand why he's been POE'd with me as the final mafia but I really think he has been completely sincere here during the day and is town. If you're gonna ignore me after I'm confirmed town and lynch him anyway then at LEAST think it through. Koshi: Don't lynch this guy. He is cop. He's a total dick and I am honestly not playing with him again until I see that he improves his attitude. But he is town. marvellosity: Don't lynch this guy. I am sure that he isn't the framer over prplhz. If he is mafia he's played easily his best mafiaside game ever, and he's had an illustrious career so far. I guess it's not technically beyond his capacity but I just don't see it, especially with... prplhz: This guy still being in the game. He is the framer. I don't care if you think that makes the setup bastard. Do not EVER say "well if we lose to that whatever it's a bastard format anyway." NEVER EVER. Read the damn instructions in the OP for Christ's sake. "Play to win." it says very clearly. That doesn't say "Play to win if it's not a bastard game." It doesn't say "Play to win unless the game gets too hard in which case manufacture a bullshit moral victory by claiming setup was unfair." It says "Play to win." Period. End of discussion. And if you entertain the world where a framer possibly exists, the answer is very obviously prplhz. The guy is the only one who hasn't been trying to solve the game in 6p MYLO-1. Even Koshi who pretty obviously doesn't give a shit about actually solving the game did more to solve it today tha prplhz. This guy was our virtually unanimous lynch last night but then we just collectively decided a framer is unfair and cleared him for it. Bullshit. Doesn't matter if it's unfair. If we're judging by "gameplay reasons" then it's prplhz. Period, end of story. "But Eden, Why Are You Giving Up?" I am okay with being mislynched. I don't want my streak to be broken ever. It sucks. It feels like a colossal failure. But think about what playing not to be mislynched means: It means I have no room to grow. It means I am forcing myself inside the town meta box that has been built for me by other players. I can easily never ever be mislynched through a variety of ways. I could make up town seals. I could just pointedly not try as mafia and get a pseudo-townseal. There are a lot of players on TL who basically do the latter one unintentionally. Remember back on day 1 when people were suspecting me for not interacting with JAT like I normally would as town? I caved then because I didn't want to be mislynched. This was dumb as hell because it led me not to catch mafia. It literally led me to find anything else but lynch mafia. But it was dumb for more than that. I started playing for performance instead of mastery. You gotta try something new to grow and sometimes it blows up in your face and there you are. That's basically what happened when I started exploring other options. I even laid out the damn gameplan for how I could avoid getting mislynched: On March 19 2015 08:48 Eden1892 wrote: ok friends, this is my plan for today. let me know if this is ok. i am going to vote for palmar (check) i am going to make some arguments for why palmar is mafia (check) i am going to respond to queries about them and make more arguments as needed i am going to otherwise not really try all that hard. if palmar is going to get me lynched instead, then i will spam thread and be loud to get him lynched. if palmar flips town, i'm going to freak out and then you guys will please not lynch me at 4p mylo Now, who knows if I would have made it out of 4p MYLO if I followed this. Frankly I bet I don't. But that's kinda the point, right? I could get ML'd at 4p MYLO and lose for being "safe" and not trying to branch out and win the hard games. Play it by the book, get killed at MYLO and say "wow, yeah, XYZ played a great scum game, I'm ok with losing to that." FUCK THAT MINDSET AND ANY OF Y'ALL READING THIS THINKING THE SAME, STOP THAT SHIT RIGHT NOW. So yeah. I'm giving up on not being mislynched, cause I don't think it's gonna happen. But I'm not giving up on the game. You still have a cycle to figure this out after you mislynch me. Don't fuck it up. Final Shoutouts RAY - good game dude, whatever alignment you are you balled pretty hard. Will probably nominate you for Best <alignment> pretty much regardless of how this ends. KOSHI - dude, what the hell happened to you? You used to be so fun to play with. Like Funniest Player level awesome. Even in January in Imperial you were fun to play with. And you were pretty damn good at this game too. Not that you aren't now, but you're choking hella hard here and you don't even see it cuz you're too busy being an angry douche to whoever doesn't want to march to your tune. It's like you lost the fire altogether man. I'm disappointed in you. I expected better from the guy that was so hype to play with back in the day. I dunno if you need a break or just a new game or what, but you're off your game big-time. Shape up and step up man. I know you can do better than this and I got faith you will. Sorry I was a dick to a bunch of people this game too. I am working hard on not being a raging douche. Results were already unsuccessful in the other game lol. But I think I got a handle on it and I'm gonna keep trying. I hope I haven't made this game too unfun for people, I know I did for Damdred and that sucks. Looking forward to the next game, and I promise you Imma be even better than before. Out | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
i don't think your rage was bad at all, hardly even noticable. only koshi had a hard time keeping it under control. and damdred but he internalized it. | ||
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prplhz
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