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On July 15 2014 00:37 shiroiusagi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2014 00:19 ComaDose wrote:
LoL model makes more money.
For players: getting everything for free is better than having to work for things unless you like the reward of working for things Ever heard of keys? Can only buy from Dota2 store (same like TF2 keys.) You don't have to drop a penny in Dota2 as well, even then you can make money over the time you play. Of course it will take a lot of time cause drops isn't like candy, but when you get to the point of getting really nice drops can sell on the market make money, buy some other item you want or can bank it up to buy other games on steam.
oh that sounds like fun.
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Well I am sure some people are just looking at it from a LoL > DotA perspective (in size of audience). Obv this is not just anything black and white like that, but that's how some look at it.
In my opinion, idc. I am so used to the LoL model from years of it that it feels normal for me. In the same token I would not complain if all champs were free. Right now there's a pretty small champ pool and the gold you get lvl 1-40 is pretty nice.
I have played 400~ games of HotS, own every support champ (support main) + a few others, have played 6+ games with every champ (except Murky), have all kinds of cool skin tints, have 12,000 gold just sitting on my account, and have spent a grand total of $0 on this game. The model is not that bad. Maybe is a couple years when there is nearing 100 champs it makes less sense, but atm you can access a large portion of the game for free.
One thing I do remember from LoL (before I got all champs) was that feeling of grinding out IP, saving for a bit, all to get that one new champ I really wanted. The first couple games on the champ felt like such a magical experience when you know you owned them now. Have been getting that on HotS too so far, but it could be because I am used to LoL.
Just my 2 cents however, I am fine with the LoL model but am also fine with the DotA model. At least the LoL model means there can only be so many shitty Murky's in the game at a time lol.
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for me its simple:
grind 5 years or pay 500$ to get full content models = AVOID LIKE PLAGUE
its just bad design, is a ripoff and always ends with problems.
IF they offer a decently priced "pay 20-30$ and get access to all heroes/champs/gods/brave guys etc" thats all ok (like smite is doing, great game btw).
ofc blizz cant copy dotas model cause they dont have the steam platform to do all the genius stuff valve is doing. lets be honest bnet still is shit. so either they find their own way, do it like smite or do it like lol and then wonder why no one plays their game.
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On July 16 2014 03:52 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
for me its simple:
grind 5 years or pay 500$ to get full content models = AVOID LIKE PLAGUE
its just bad design, is a ripoff and always ends with problems.
IF they offer a decently priced "pay 20-30$ and get access to all heroes/champs/gods/brave guys etc" thats all ok (like smite is doing, great game btw).
ofc blizz cant copy dotas model cause they dont have the steam platform to do all the genius stuff valve is doing. lets be honest bnet still is shit. so either they find their own way, do it like smite or do it like lol and then wonder why no one plays their game.
youre massively exaggerating. im liking the game so far, bought one hero for monies and a couple more for gold. dont really feel like i will need to buy much more for money since i see no point in owning all the heroes if im only going to play the ones i like anyway.
looking for a couple of people to play in the evenings right now (EU server). anyone up for that?
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On July 16 2014 18:37 DarKFoRcE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 03:52 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
for me its simple:
grind 5 years or pay 500$ to get full content models = AVOID LIKE PLAGUE
its just bad design, is a ripoff and always ends with problems.
IF they offer a decently priced "pay 20-30$ and get access to all heroes/champs/gods/brave guys etc" thats all ok (like smite is doing, great game btw).
ofc blizz cant copy dotas model cause they dont have the steam platform to do all the genius stuff valve is doing. lets be honest bnet still is shit. so either they find their own way, do it like smite or do it like lol and then wonder why no one plays their game. youre massively exaggerating. im liking the game so far, bought one hero for monies and a couple more for gold. dont really feel like i will need to buy much more for money since i see no point in owning all the heroes if im only going to play the ones i like anyway. looking for a couple of people to play in the evenings right now (EU server). anyone up for that?
why am i exaggerating? just stating my opinion and it always poses problems. be it balance,beeing forced to more or less create the same stuff multiple times so evryone has access to one version of it to avoid balance problems , people screaming OPOP cause grass is always greener and they got owned by stuff they dont have access to etc etc.
and about them failing... well time will tell. but with a model like that the question is if the asian market will jump on it which will pretty much make or brake it.
its still easy to fix by offering a full purchase for a normal price that includes evrything that is not just cosmetic. if not the game is already dead to me and i wont care how it does anyways 
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well u generalized by calling it bad design (its the most successful one to date so it cant be inherently bad) and exagerated by saying no one would play their game if they do it that way (people are already playing their game in alpha even tho its like that)
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On July 17 2014 05:02 ComaDose wrote:
well u generalized by calling it bad design (its the most successful one to date so it cant be inherently bad) and exagerated by saying no one would play their game if they do it that way (people are already playing their game in alpha even tho its like that)
tons of phone games that are utter ripoffsare also hugely succesful and still its terrible design. cash =/= good design. and by playing their game i mean beeing remotly competive with lol,dota, ,hon, smite etc. guess just beeing a blizzard game will guarantee a certain level of success tho.
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Please people, pleeease start capitalize you sentences, I'm getting a headache reading this page. Pretty please?
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On July 17 2014 05:02 ComaDose wrote:
calling it bad design (its the most successful one to date so it cant be inherently bad)
From the perspective of the consumer, it can definitely be "inherently bad" while maintaining substantial success due to developer choice.
The point is, if the character unlock system poses no substantial barrier to playing any character you desire, then it serves no purpose and shouldn't exist at all. And if it does pose substantial barrier to playing any character you desire, then you don't actually get the game without paying and calling the game free is no longer accurate
People who make the argument that "well I unlocked everything for free" fail to justify the existence of the barrier that they were forced to climb. The game developer's need for money is no concern of the customers.
To people who are used to a truly free model, paying or grinding to unlock characters is no different than paying or grinding to unlock maps, or abilities, or purchased items (those don't exist in HotS I guess), base defense, etc. If buying characters is like buying expansion packs (paying for new content), then what justifies those who own the new content playing against those who don't? (Lets 1v1 you can play SC1 Vanilla terran and I'll play Broodwar teran, I'm sure thats balanced you didn't need medics anyway). The fact that you can unlock those characters for free again doesn't justify anything whatsoever. The fact that you'd crush me in that particular 1v1 also doesn't justify anything 
Anyway, its like mobile activation fees and other bullshit. "Oh its the most successful business model" is the same as saying "I hate having money". There's no reason to like a business model just because a company is using it to very successfully milk money from it's consumers. Judge a business model on what it provides to the consumer, YOU.
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Northern Ireland22203 Posts
Is it terrible design if it rakes in the money though?
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Just started it to see what this is about, after noticing I had a key.
Noticed mounts go as high as 20$ and a pack of 1 hero 2 shitty skins is like 10$ ?
Wtf are they smoking.
I've just started playing so I don't know yet but if it takes ages to unlock stuff that will be just another blizz title I'll skip.
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On July 17 2014 05:37 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 05:02 ComaDose wrote:
well u generalized by calling it bad design (its the most successful one to date so it cant be inherently bad) and exagerated by saying no one would play their game if they do it that way (people are already playing their game in alpha even tho its like that) tons of phone games that are utter ripoffsare also hugely succesful and still its terrible design. cash =/= good design. and by playing their game i mean beeing remotly competive with lol,dota, ,hon, smite etc. guess just beeing a blizzard game will guarantee a certain level of success tho.
i guess your definition of terrible design is different than mine. as an engineer its never terrible if it works and the design is built to get money which it does the best at. i hope they do something like smite tho cause i bought the god pack and love it.
On July 17 2014 05:41 gruff wrote:
Please people, pleeease start capitalize you sentences, I'm getting a headache reading this page. Pretty please?
i find smaller letters easier on the eyes and less headache inducing personally
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On July 14 2014 01:39 Diamond wrote:Hey I'm streaming Heroes if anyone wants to see mostly high mmr stuff. Prepare for ungodly que's, but I have played vs almost all the top players and do commentary. Starting in just a few! http://www.twitch.tv/esvision
I watched a vid of a game of yours and you just started criticizing your teammates and played badly (free ganks during typing) because of it. When I play Heroes and one of my teammates starts getting that way, it's an auto-squelch. In this case I stopped watching because this is not what I tuned in for. I recommend you find some teammates if pub games aggravate you this much.
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"The game developer's need for money is no concern of the customers."
All the more reason for the dev to figure out some way to make money. Blizzard has a ton of money, but not infinite money. They are a business after all, they will employ such practices as they see fit unless there is very substantial public outcry.
I'm not saying it's fair, but who's to say it isn't fair? You can play a decently sized portion of the game via the hero rotations and unlock a few heroes fairly easily, while later down the line the game starts becoming a grind to the point where you're probably going to pay some money to the company who made the game you've been playing.
Granted, in an ideal world we'd only be paying for skins (praise volvo), but not every company necessarily has the kind of community or funding that would allow them to go for Dota 2's model while still giving enough income to the devs via purchases of skins and whatnot to allow the continued development of the product, as well as potentially others down the line.
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Path of Exile isn't made by Valve and it still has a sensible free to play model. And they certainly don't have the same resources Blizzard has. It's only about priorities, do they want to get rich, or make good games?
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there is nothing wrong with the current business model at all.
it is priced extremely high but you can unlock things without an achievable play hours.
Earning points/in game currency for unlocks are a part of the whole game play experience.
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On July 17 2014 16:41 ETisME wrote:
there is nothing wrong with the current business model at all.
it is priced extremely high but you can unlock things without an achievable play hours.
Earning points/in game currency for unlocks are a part of the whole game play experience.
Here we can observe a condition otherwise known as Stockholm Syndrome.
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On July 17 2014 16:15 3772 wrote:
Path of Exile isn't made by Valve and it still has a sensible free to play model. And they certainly don't have the same resources Blizzard has. It's only about priorities, do they want to get rich, or make good games?
This is the biggest absurd I've ever read. So the companies that make money (by default) are making shitty games, and only the indie companies are producing quality product. MIND BLOWN !
Last time I checked GTA V was pretty good game... And made some good money. Your logic just failed.
The amount of entitled people here is ridiculous. Blizzard has set their business model and the prices. If you want to buy- buy, if not just walk away. Why do you have to whine all the time that they are not giving you stuff for free ? Go in the supermarket and ask if they will give you something for free. Yeah, things cost money.
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Well, expecting players to pay over 50 dollars for any game (even giving them the option to skip content) is quite shady, even though it does make sense from a buisiness perspective
how do you justify GTA V beeing bought for 50 $ , a game that cant have had less work put in, over hearthstone - whre players have been relieved of thousands of dollars.
Again, its smart, but its a very shady model to take advantage of people like that.
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The hero rotation system is also meant for players to not be overwhelmed by the hero roster. The rotation acts as a learning experience for new players. New players will most likely only have the heroes in rotation, so that when you're in queue, you are more familiar with your team's heroes and your enemy's heroes. And people like progression and building more than anything.
You might say, oh, just have a separate matchmaking. Heroes isn't that big yet to have multiple matchmaking. Ranked mode isn't even in yet, most likely due to the player pool not being big enough.
its a win win scenario, you can monetize heroes, and you can control the experience of new players more closely. Frankly, the experienced semi-casual players will probably stay and play... and that their feedback means almost nothing if they keep playing compared to your everyday casual that may quit out of nowhere.
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EPT
