EPT##unvote Amiko
##vote OnceKing
Newbie Mini Mafia LII - Page 9
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
##unvote Amiko ##vote OnceKing | ||
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
o well, strike that point then. Alright then everyone has two options here as to what they want to believe. 1. I'm mafia. I just went from "probably town or Godfather" by posting without fear because I'm continuing to post completely unfearfully and want to get someone lynched instead of sitting back and letting the town do stupid stuff like speculate about setup or ask pointless questions such as "r u mafia" OR 2. I'm town. I think this guy who obsesses over power roles and night actions instead of lynching mafia is scum, but misread one of his posts. He votes for dubious reasons, dismisses any arguments brought against him while not addressing anything but the weakest points ("here, let me quote an old post, that will allay any fears!") or scumhunting. Also, his initial statement on Amiko basically rehashes what mine was and Lord Tolkien confusingly had his vote on him for the longest time despite "not being sold" or Amiko providing a "decent defense" because he wanted to lynch for information instead of lynching to kill scum. Lord Tolkien has contributed nothing new despite having a multitude of posts other than attacking me just now. Let's tango. | ||
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
1. I'm mafia. I just went from "probably town or Godfather" by posting without fear to SURE SCUM because I'm continuing to post completely unfearfully and want to get someone lynched instead of sitting back and letting the town do stupid stuff like speculate about setup or ask pointless questions such as "r u mafia" Obviously I've considered one scenario above the other | ||
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theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
OnceKing said: AND you say that you don't think IAmRobik is scummy, just inactive when you've clearly called out some of his posts as making him scummy, so what gives? I believe he is correct. Can you tell me why you strongly believe OnceKing is mafia? He started the vote on Amiko, which gained a bit of ground then switched to you. If he was mafia, why would he switch from Amiko, who was getting a lot of suspicious looks from people, including yourself. He said he wanted to split votes to generate more discussion, which isn't really a scum move and it favors town since mafia can't easily bandwagon. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On February 17 2014 16:23 OnceKing wrote: oh god dammit did i seriously misread that post LOL o well, strike that point then. Alright then everyone has two options here as to what they want to believe. 1. I'm mafia. I just went from "probably town or Godfather" by posting without fear because I'm continuing to post completely unfearfully and want to get someone lynched instead of sitting back and letting the town do stupid stuff like speculate about setup or ask pointless questions such as "r u mafia" OR 2. I'm town. I think this guy who obsesses over power roles and night actions instead of lynching mafia is scum, but misread one of his posts. He votes for dubious reasons, dismisses any arguments brought against him while not addressing anything but the weakest points ("here, let me quote an old post, that will allay any fears!") or scumhunting. Also, his initial statement on Amiko basically rehashes what mine was and Lord Tolkien confusingly had his vote on him for the longest time despite "not being sold" or Amiko providing a "decent defense" because he wanted to lynch for information instead of lynching to kill scum. Lord Tolkien has contributed nothing new despite having a multitude of posts other than attacking me just now. Let's tango. Again, I'm fine with a double lynch. If I get lynched and I turn up green or blue, you lynch OnceKing. Or have vig shoot him. I'm perfectly fine with the trade. If I'm red, you got me. I'm sure this is acceptable to everyone? Or you guys can lynch him and then lynch me afterwards, whomever you feel is more scummy. I'm fine with the trade. Thus far you've been nitpicking irrelevant details in my post or making baseless, half-founded accusations. Your filter reads as either a particularly zealous town, or a mafia actively trying to confuse everyone. I'm fine with the trade, up to you guys. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On February 17 2014 16:28 theDragoon wrote: @Lord Tolkien, you didn't exactly call out IAmRobik as scum but you did say that IAR's posts point towards scum. OnceKing said: I believe he is correct. I should've made it clearer, then. My sentence structures can get meandering at times. Again, I blame lack of editing capabilities and a late night. I meant that he was a lurker, and not scummy in his read-through. Look above. Or you can cite the posts where I call him scummy; there's only one, and it was in reference to Cavalinho. Can you tell me why you strongly believe OnceKing is mafia? He started the vote on Amiko, which gained a bit of ground then switched to you. If he was mafia, why would he switch from Amiko, who was getting a lot of suspicious looks from people, including yourself. He said he wanted to split votes to generate more discussion, which isn't really a scum move and it favors town since mafia can't easily bandwagon. I'm not entirely coherent at this hour now, but I'll do my best (at worst I'll post a clarifying post later). My initial impression of him was either that he was mafia actively attempting to shape and lead the discussion, or a particularly proactive town member. I wasn't entirely sure which one he was (and it is possible Calvainho was also), which is why I supported the lynch against Amiko, as I noted time and again, and was willing to move forward on Day 2 depending on which way he flipped. If he was red, then cool. If green, there's enough basis for a trade. That was my reasoning. If you feel it's flawed and a mistake, fine, whatever, but that was my reasoning. On OnceKing, thus far, he's ultimately lead us to look at the most random, meaningless details in his post. See his initial accusation on Amiko, which was valid at the time. He's been encouraging other people to make the brunt of the cases and arguments, and hasn't ACTUALLY contributed to them to begin with. He brought up the case against me after Amiko brought up his analysis of my vote and my apparent apathy vote. After that, he cobbled together a case that consisted of meaningless details and red herrings. My joke read on Beneather for instance, or my injection of (newbie) into a post. Thus to me, he's been bandwagoning his case after Amiko raised his valid points, and largely making a big deal about meaningless details in my filter. Now it's also entirely possible both of us are town, and my read on him is wrong, and he is indeed just a zealous townie pouncing on meaningless details. In which case, a double-lynch would potentially result in town losing if there are 3 mafia and they get a night kill (or one turn away from it if roleblock and vet come into play). That would be unfortunate, so I'll let you guys decide whether or not he is. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
My primary scumreads, as of right this moment, are Amiko, Lord Tolkein, and IAmRobik. Amiko has put together some analysis, but winds up coming to completely different conclusions from what I'm thinking. IAmRobik has pointlessly defended Amiko earlier and completely dropped off the radar after giving a spineless answer early on. (For the record, I think IAmRobik is scum because of the way he was pointlessly defending Amiko earlier, by using the exact same reasoning that makes Amiko suspicious.) And OnceKing is my strong townread as of right now. I see absolutely no reason for anyone to vote him for any reason, so Lord Tolkein voting him makes my stomach churn. I've also noticed that I'm starting to get really aggravated from Amiko's attacks on me; I know that I'm town, and I'm already losing my patience with someone trying to find hidden meaning in my accusations. Instead of just trying to tunnel him, I propose we all start following a more rigid guideline for this first lynch in order to stop all the OMGUS'ing going on. I think we all need to come to some sort of conclusion from the information we've gotten and the reactions we've received so far before making any other moves. We have a bunch of solid analysis going around and a clear, short, concise thread to work with. We should isolate our possible lynches to a smaller number of people and see what happens. Maybe the extra pressure will lead to some new insights. | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On February 17 2014 16:57 Cavalinho wrote: My big issue with the lynches being discussed is that I don't think Amiko and Lord Tolkein can be a team. I seriously doubt Tolkein would bus him so easily and without further discussion, as pointed out by Beneather. If one is town, the other is mafia. I don't think there would be a reason for them to just randomly vote each other with so much at stake in such an active, unspammy d1. It is entirely possible that we are both town. That is another possibility that you forgot to mention, and I am perfectly willing to accept that I was willing to lynch another townie. As I noted, it was a lynch for further info on you and OnceKing. I have stated this before, and I will continue to state this; I was not sure if my read on OnceKing was either a moderate town read or a mafia read. I'm still not entirely sure about you being mafia or town. Your analysis at times has had holes, both in post where you discussed Night 1 possibilities. If you think that's a mistake, fine. But that was my take on the situation. (For the record, I think IAmRobik is scum because of the way he was pointlessly defending Amiko earlier, by using the exact same reasoning that makes Amiko suspicious.) So this is assuming Amiko is scum. Very possible still, mind you, and having him actually contribute Day 1 would be very nice, but his read isn't strong for me. Reads far more like a patient lurker at this time, which could just as well mean he's a blue role. Or you are right, and he could be red. It might be worth bringing up, actually. And OnceKing is my strong townread as of right now. I see absolutely no reason for anyone to vote him for any reason, so Lord Tolkein voting him makes my stomach churn. And why is he a strong town-read for you? I've also noticed that I'm starting to get really aggravated from Amiko's attacks on me; I know that I'm town, and I'm already losing my patience with someone trying to find hidden meaning in my accusations. Instead of just trying to tunnel him, I propose we all start following a more rigid guideline for this first lynch in order to stop all the OMGUS'ing going on. You should stop being annoyed by it, because people naturally get scummy reads on accusers, especially Day 1. If they're town, they'll think it's scummy. If they're scum, they'll call you scummy. OnceKing's accusations have made me review his filter and chronology a second time, closely, for instance, and followup on my initial gut impression. I should note is that he started asking for reads after I made my initial list of reads, and listed him as either town or scum. His attempts to encourage discussion and push on me occurred after that (I'm reading this as his attempting to establish a town read0; he was not involved in the case against Amiko outside the initial post, which may simply just be an attempt to confuse people (or convince people that they aren't working together; either way). Your suggestion is sound, however. I'll lay it down. To open a case, one person proposes a person to be lynched and examined. When one case is open, you can't raise another person up for lynching. If people agree, that person gets voted for lynching, if not, the case can be closed and another person can be proposed after X number of votes to be overturned (say majority-1). This would be for future lynchings; I doubt it'll suffice for the Day 1 lynching given limited time. I'm perfectly fine of you guys want to raise a vote or case on me right now, as long as you lynch OnceKing or shoot him when I turn up green or blue. If I end up red and he's correct, yay for town. If I'm not, I'd like some post-mortem followup on my read. ...worst comes to worst, we're both town, but I'm pretty sure he's scum at this point. My personal impression is that it is unlikely that Cal~ is not working with Amiko with the sniping, unless it's a masterful ploy of misdirection which is working beautifully. So both can't be mafia. Either they are both town or one of them is mafia, but not both. It is possible for Amiko and OnceKing to both be mafia, one of them mafia, or both be town (the last I'm now incredibly doubtful of given my read of OnceKing). Reads: My read of Cal is that his analysis is at times lacking. For instance the recent mentioning of Amiko and me both being town, which confuses things, as I accepted that he could as well be town during my reasoning. The other was the discussion of what happens Day 2 after the flip. Either you or Amiko are scum, or both are town. My current impression here is muddled. Amiko is still very possibly scum. See above. I may need to update my read of OnceKing further to make it cognizant, but I stated it already and everyone is clear about it now. Wasn't sure when the case was going on, but since then it's been increasingly glaring to me. I would like to see more contribution from IAmRodrik, and bringing up a case against him might spark that. If you want to do that, go ahead (either now or Day 2, up to you guys). This is my last post of the night. I'm pooped.. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On February 17 2014 16:59 Cavalinho wrote: Off topic, but I just realized I've been spelling Lord Tolkien's name wrong this whole thread...Lol. im just gonna call you cal or cav from now on, too long to type <3 | ||
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Cavalinho
United States946 Posts
From LT: Your suggestion is sound, however. I'll lay it down. To open a case, one person proposes a person to be lynched and examined. When one case is open, you can't raise another person up for lynching. If people agree, that person gets voted for lynching, if not, the case can be closed and another person can be proposed after X number of votes to be overturned (say majority-1). | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Vote Count cavalinho: (1) IAmRobik: (0) Lord Tolkien: (1) Beneather: (0) theDragoon: (1) IAmRobik Amiko: (0) OnceKing: (1) Lord Tolkien At this point Cavalinho is set to be lynched Please remember to unvote after voting. The cycle ends in . PM me if you have any questions or if you see a vote out of place. | ||
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Valenius
United Kingdom1266 Posts
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
I should note is that he started asking for reads after I made my initial list of reads, and listed him as either town or scum. His attempts to encourage discussion and push on me occurred after that (I'm reading this as his attempting to establish a town read0; he was not involved in the case against Amiko outside the initial post, which may simply just be an attempt to confuse people (or convince people that they aren't working together; either way). Err. It was my asking that prompted you to post your list. Check this out: On February 17 2014 09:00 Lord Tolkien wrote: Given the current information set I have (which is limited): Amiko: moderately leaning scum, not entirely convinced but very possible and the most "scummy" looking we have atm OnceKing: Leaning town or leaning Godfather at this point, I'd say the former, but the latter is certainly possible; does depend on how Amiko flips Cavalinho: Also depends on how Amiko flips, either slight scum or moderate town; his current posts have me fairly slanted towards the latter Me: obv town. If I were blue, it would only be Veteran because I can take a hit; otherwise, why would I risk my neck Day 1. You could also read me red I suppose; it's also a possibility. Beneather: slightly scummy just for voting for me. i aint no mafia bish~ Everyone else are lurkers I can't get a read on. Beneather falls in this category too. Either blues or reds most likely. I'm going to go to class and reread the thread. Beneather, n1k0 and IAmRobik are way too quiet for my liking -- this, at least, we can all agree on. | ||
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Valenius
United Kingdom1266 Posts
My post more more just curiosity as to whether he's here lurking, or just completely afk. | ||
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
This post is super scummy: On February 16 2014 12:21 Valenius wrote: Good evening  I'm heading to bed now, UK Time (03:00), see you all in a bit!This post is super towny, which is why I rescinded and said that he's town: On February 16 2014 13:01 Cavalinho wrote: Lets take this outside, I don't even care. Hold my earrings. ##vote IAmRobik Whereas some people find this post by Amiko to be scummy, I think the opposite. I like this post a lot: On February 16 2014 14:45 Amiko wrote: I don't really know how to start a good discussion d1 but here is at least a little information me I can volunteer: This will be my first forum mafia game! I have read a few threads but I do not recognize any of the players in this game. I have played epicmafia sometimes and have watched a few streams (pope, ring, ello, koibu). I am townsided this game. I will be up for another hour or so tonight, but usually I do not post early in the mornings here though (US MST). So far I like that Beneather asked about the modpost for innocent child! Thanks for remembering. When I don't have information yet I like voting for non-active people. Right now that's theDragoon, n1k0, and OnceKing. But, I want to hold my vote for a little longer since the game just started. And it will be an implicit promise I will not be afk or lurking because I have to come back before the deadline to vote  Up to this point, there's no scummier post than this one: On February 16 2014 16:06 theDragoon wrote: Nice, we finally got this started, all that early voting made me lol a bit. Gonna hit the sack soon, see ya'll tomorrow I don't know what this says about OnceKing's alignment, but the fact that he jumps on Amiko's post is pretty meh in my opinion. Amiko makes, what I consider to be, a good post and onceking focuses on the fact that it's long and has no content? Besides length, none of the posts really have content up to this point...I will say though that I like the fact that Onceking actually provided some conent here. Probably more towny, but still don't like this post overall: On February 17 2014 05:05 OnceKing wrote: Alright guys, here's what I think -- Amiko is lookin' awfully shady. Why? Look at his introductory post. What do you immediately note about it? Probably that it's huge (relative to the rest of the posts this game). So this by itself doesn't mean anything. But let's examine the contents of this post. Paragraph 1: Random stuff about not having played before, a random claim to be townie when no one asked, and other filler. Oh, and an excuse to be regularly inactive. This is all filler. Paragraph 2: Gives a list of inactives like three hours into the game and promises he'll be back after refusing to actually cast suspicion on anyone. All in all, there's really no reason for this post to be so large and say so much fluff unless he's just trying to look helpful. ##VOTE Amiko Not gonna quote the end of the page, but Cavalinho is securing himself as my top town read based off of how freely he is speaking with regard to the Amiko situation and how openly he is aligning himself with OnceKing. This doesn't mean that I think OnceKing is town, but I don't think that Cavalinho's logic would be so easy to follow if he was mafia. | ||
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N1k0
Uruguay1075 Posts
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N1k0
Uruguay1075 Posts
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
On February 17 2014 06:03 Lord Tolkien wrote: Alright, since we're apparently getting into srs bzns the opening of Day 1, 1) Given the last of mod post, I'm going to assume that there isn't an innocent child. That also means we might not have other roles either. 2) On Amiko, he's (she's?) been helpful thus far at least in providing a spreadsheet copy for us to use. That being said, his post-role post is, as you guys noted, is kinda scummy. I disagree with this point. There's no reason to lynch lurkers Day 1 where there's limited information for them to participate anyways. The later the game goes, the more valid an option it becomes. But right now this post was pretty incredibly unhelpful, even if I do appreciate the town read. That being said, for an opening post I'm not yet entirely convinced to bandwagon. I'd prefer a stronger case to be brought up. The bolded below is Amiko more gracefully explaining what I was trying to say above: On February 17 2014 06:23 Amiko wrote: Oh, two other points: (1) Game experience is already showing that it is something we can use to evaluate- (2) In reflection, I guess it would appear less scummy for my first post to be like everyone else and randomly vote without providing any information on myself. So, three questions: If I were mafia, why would I try to stand out? Did my post contribute more or less helpful than any of the other first day posts? I think my first post contributed to town, certainly more than the other meaningless d1 posts: 1- It identified my reasoning for how I would vote if I had no scumreads 2- It told you when to expect inactivity and when I would have no excuse for inactivity Also I disagree with Tolkein's comment re lynching idle players. The longer the game goes, the more information we have from active players. Between our copchecks and filters, the players who are talking will be easier to attack for our inconsistencies and our analysis. Silent players don't provide town with any information, and more importantly they won't scumhunt during the day. This reads as genuine anger and frustration to me. Leaning more towny on OnceKing: On February 17 2014 07:29 OnceKing wrote: Uh, who CARES if any of us have prior experience in a different situation? And why does this being a newbie game mean we should be more forgiving towards scummy posts? This will only let scum hide even more. And now I'll respond to what Amiko wrote hopefully convincing others to put up their votes and cases: 1) No. I am NOT discouraging long posts. *I* had a relatively long post. I am encouraging CONSTRUCTIVE posts, and discouraging people posting a bunch of crap and pretending that it's good just because of its length. 2) Completely and randomly out of place. What was the context of you saying this? Nothing, it was just... there. For no reason whatsoever, as compared to Cavalinho's statement that he was cleared or cleared people or whatever in the context of banter about being clear. 3) No 4) Ok yes this makes sense but I'm not convinced this isn't a reason you made up to justify your excuses. Congrats, you're completely misinterpreting what I've said (points 1 and 2) or said something completely wrong (point 3). I'm only more convinced you're scum now. This is bad: On February 17 2014 08:14 Lord Tolkien wrote: His rationale was that you stated that you had originally pegged his post as scummy, but didn't post until after OnceKing made the initial case. Which, honestly, in the current Day 1 climate of no info is as decently sound as we'll get. Since we have to lynch someone (I don't think we can go for no lynchings), I'm fine lynching Amiko and, assuming we have a Cop, checking either you (most favorable) or OnceKing (I read him as townish, but just to make sure). How we move forward Day 2 depends on how Amiko reads and if we get a red read (which isn't reliable since Godfather, and we probably have a 33%-50% chance of that being the fake read we get, and we might not have a Cop), but unless something new comes up, that's my (newbie) analysis of what we should do. I may be painting a target on my back to get mafia-killed, but whatever. This is also bad: On February 17 2014 08:16 Lord Tolkien wrote: I'm not entirely convinced that Amiko is red, but I don't think at this point it matters. ##vote Amiko Depending on the flip: 1) Die scum die 2) Sorry mang, but take one for the town Thoughts on page 6: THERE'S WAY TO MUCH DISCUSSION ON WHO COP SHOULD CHECK AND WHATNOT. LET THE COP MAKE HIS/HER OWN DECISIONS AND WHEN HE/SHE DECIDES TO OUT, WE'LL GET THE INFORMATION THEN. (I agree with what cavalinho says though). | ||
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