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Papa_Smurf
336 Posts
On August 31 2013 11:19 debears wrote: I'm gonna guess most people have a town read on clarity and wave of shadow. Possibly BH too. Just based on filter size VE Koshi and Slam doing decently as well Vayne this post is when i first replaced d1 of aperature | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
But I am willing to lynch the guy who is the least active today. Will be interesting. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43226 Posts
On September 13 2013 04:10 Papa_Smurf wrote: 1)Remember how OO wanted to lynch me for being useless, then voted me. Pandain did the same thing with kush. 2) Then he called someone town and suspicious in the same post. That's definitely awkward if he is town. 3) And his reasoning for his townread on SnB is totally off. so 1) is scummy 2) is weird as hell for a town to say 3) is bad logic See what I'm gettin at? I'm gonna go to sauna for ~15min now. I'll explain this after. I don't however understand how you think like this in case you are town. Please wait for my post. It'll be here soonish. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On September 13 2013 04:14 Papa_Smurf wrote: Vayne this post is when i first replaced d1 of aperature if you read it, it was mostly a bunch of garbage and he turned out to be 3rd party I am just going to have to once again disagree at this point. WoS is a bit hard to read though so no way am I giving him a free pass like SnB. my day one lynch candidates at this point are blubbdavid (less after his response), grackaroni (still think that post that me and WoS picked up on is super sketchy), and one of rayn/koshi, cant decide who is town of them yet but one is scum for sure. vig targets - onegu, zealos, etc all the people that refuse to do anything. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Papa_Smurf
336 Posts
On September 13 2013 04:19 VayneAuthority wrote: if you read it, it was mostly a bunch of garbage and he turned out to be 3rd party I am just going to have to once again disagree at this point. WoS is a bit hard to read though so no way am I giving him a free pass like SnB. my day one lynch candidates at this point are blubbdavid (less after his response), grackaroni (still think that post that me and WoS picked up on is super sketchy), and one of rayn/koshi, cant decide who is town of them yet but one is scum for sure. vig targets - onegu, zealos, etc all the people that refuse to do anything. ohhh i htought he was town in aperature. Eh. I guess I'll just lay off it for now | ||
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On September 13 2013 04:23 blubbdavid wrote: Koshi, where have your suspicions against rayn gone too? Still here? But it is not impossible both of us are town. | ||
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Pandain
United States12981 Posts
On September 12 2013 14:47 Papa_Smurf wrote: I disagree with the SnB being town read just because he saw my smurf signed up as coach. If you call him town, call him town by his in game play Like, as a player in the forum, its not like he was researching me and that's how he found me signed up as coach, it was a completely different circumstance. And to say "oh you must be smurf because of that", when my name is papa smurf is no new knowledge I don't know any time you offer new information like that, it strikes me as town. Mafia usually repeats information, or if they do make a case it's usually contrived and forced to find some sort of an opinion. Also Grack you seem to have heavily misinterpeted my post, which is okay. I'll explain now. You were being pretty hesitant in sharing your opinions early on in that you were always open to being convinced otherwise; this contrasts with your play now. I don't think your scum at the moment, though if Kush were to be found mafia I would have to re-evaluate it. Also I didn't advocate we lynch you to being bad as I don't think you're bad. Furthermore I didn't have a good enough read yet. I do, however, advocate kush for being pretty unproductive. It's a bad move to try and lynch someone who we think might be scummy day one. These never turn out to be actually scum, instead it's just a townie who put his neck too far in. Going to quickly quote this. On September 12 2013 16:08 Grackaroni wrote: Lets get real, Kush playing anti-town is nothing new from him. He does it as both alignments. If he doesn't start contributing, we vig him and we move on. Lynches should be used on players we can actually analyze. So let's get him out of the way and not have to worry about him later and possibly waste a lynch on him. Let's use the auto-unsure day 1 lynch to deal with him. Furthermore, vig's shouldn't be used so early and they shouldn't be used in situations like that; instead they should be used in the late-game to help avoid LYLO situations. Furthermore, I later realized Zealos was just talking about his name, and therefore he's still open to suspicion. Even before that, it didn't change the fact he was lurking and therefore inherently suspicious. Please try to convince me otherwise if you believe lurking is town-friendly. It's also bad policy to lynch OP, people like him will share their opinions and will be easy to analyze. Getting rid of someone like Kush who will be hard to analyze is a superior option. Please let me know if you're confused. Zealos strikes me as red too; isn't contributing except generic posts. Not advocating anything, not putting himself out there. Isn't playing like a blue most importantly, and he seems more red than green. Grack seems town now, pretty pro-active and bent on trying to lynch me. Koshi I'm going to suggest to you to not look just at arguments but why people post them and possible motivations. Someone you think is antitown, or makes an anti-town post, could in reality simply be a townie who made a point you either disagree with or they didn't fully understand at the time. Grack thinks blub is scummy at its core because he makes points Grack disagrees with, which isn't a good argument. To me blub is slightly suspicious, but only at a gut feeling I can't really explain with. Not nearly enough to lynch, and doubt anyone can truly make a case and say they are more than 60% certain. On September 13 2013 02:39 blubbdavid wrote: Heh, even Panda is misreading his own post. Nope I also feel like I'm the only voice of reason sometimes, but Vayne and Ryan and Panther make good insights sometimes. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
VA is making a dumb argument for lynching me / rayn. VA doesn't do that much. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Pandain
United States12981 Posts
Ever since I called him out, and more interestingly since I said I would probably change my vote on him, he has stopped spamming but also stopped contributing. More trying to survive than anything else, and more waiting for a lynch on him to go away. | ||
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Pandain
United States12981 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Pandain
United States12981 Posts
On September 13 2013 04:27 Sn0_Man wrote: whos panther? Oops, Partner. Instinctively thought Old Panther sounded cooler. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On September 13 2013 04:25 Koshi wrote: I was suspicious of rayn in Persona. Just not on day 1. VA is making a dumb argument for lynching me / rayn. VA doesn't do that much. you and grack were the ones to jump on panda's opening post and that's probably my biggest scumtell in this game so far. I don't think you should downplay that my friend. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On September 13 2013 04:28 VayneAuthority wrote: you and grack were the ones to jump on panda's opening post and that's probably my biggest scumtell in this game so far. I don't think you should downplay that my friend. Panda his first post was bad. Last one a bit better but mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OP will come back and dazzle you guys. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Anybody see anything remotely townie in there? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On September 13 2013 04:31 Koshi wrote: Panda his first post was bad. Last one a bit better but mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OP will come back and dazzle you guys. that's kinda my point. it was the perfect kind of bad post that scum would pounce all over. prove me wrong by telling me why you and grack are town if you think im bullshitting. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43226 Posts
Your points of Pandain being scum are: 1) His town read on SnB based on bad reasons 2) policy lynch kushmasta because not helping 3) stance on Zealos (town) and then calling him a good lynch because lurker Now let's compare Pandain's / Old Partner's posts: + Show Spoiler + Pandain: On September 12 2013 13:24 Pandain wrote: I'm sorry I'm not going to be able to fully make my thoughts fully comprehensible and eloquent, instead I will just get them written down. College struggles. Alot of what I was going to say was already said by WoS Old Panther, however I have some comments to them. VA seems town due to the fact he's actively moving the thread forward for a long time. GK seems town(recognizing the one argument was silly and a distraction) I agree with OP's catch on SnB reading up on Papasmurf coaching meaning that snb is probably town. Means he's already investigating outside and looking into matters, which maybe I'm wrong but I don't think is a mafia move. Papa_Smurf, you asked others to not spam, but spam isn't just useless content, it's a bunch of small thoughts spread out across many posts. Consolidate your thoughts please for the sake of the thread. Zealos seems town because if someone else was Isaac(who is very likely to be a character due to the fact he's the main party leader in the original GS, thanks Wikipedia!), then he would get counterclaimed. And Isaac isn't evil. I don't know if it's forbidden to reason like this, based on character names, but that's what I got. Honestly not sure about OP's alignment. People who make posts like that are usually from my experience really really really good, and that means they can do anything. Main thing to keep out for is what OP actually does in the game, not what he just says. I am getting a bad read on Grackaroni due to the fact he's being very moderate in his opinions, always saying "in my opinion, I feel", trying to defend himself rather than offer actual opinions, or he's just spamming. Not sure if Scum though. Also to put it bluntly I'm going to lynch kushm4sta unless he stops posting like shit. Also he's being pretty crude(like crude troll), and I really don't appreciate it. He'll be useless to the thread basically, and with more posts I see while writing this he has ignored OP's plea to stop spamming, showing he won't listen. I agree though that lurkers should be incredibly suspicious, there are five of them in Onegu, blubdavid,raynpelikoneet, Sn0_Man, and Zealos. On September 12 2013 14:03 Pandain wrote: Ignore this post except for one key point I realized so we can stay on track of what matters: lurkers. Zealos's post doesn't mean anything I think; I think he was referring to his name in the mythical realm known as real life. Wouldn't make sense otherwise. Also kush I'll probably change from you, I was once the huge spammer too. I'll just ask you to step it up. Old Partner: On September 12 2013 12:31 Old Partner wrote: Wow, so this started! I've finally read up to the most recent page, so here are my notes so far and my statements and questions. + Show Spoiler [notes] + Up through P6 Koshi says policy is "lynch scum". joking? meaningful? what does this mean. says that grack is not a troll. votes SnB for saying "ok but how will you make sure the rest of town doesn't lynch not scum" in response to policy post. wtf? SnB notes PS is coaching a newbie game and asks about it. This is actually pretty next-level and tells me he is town. why is PS and Koshi voting SnB for trying to figure out who PS is? SnB noticing PS in a newbie game and making this connection... means he is probably town. This kind of extra level of thinking is something a town who is honestly trying to figure things out would do. Grack is policy lynching kush. I am okay with this-- kush is illegible. TL towns don't policy lynch nearly enough. P7 Koshi's thing about SnB's word choice is stupid. his word choice being different could be because he has a different alignment, but could be do to any other number of variables, including being presented with a novel "policy" Kush is trolling and I feel stronger about grack's policy vote on kush. His aggression towards kush seems a little over the top but it's okay. Vayne comes in and is actually making a lot of sense. I'm glad he was here at this time. Papasmurf swapping votes to VA seems pretty obviously a knee-jerk reaction. Judging from his word choice, high post count, and the way he moves his votes in response to innocuous statements, he is probably BH. I know you think this kind of thing is real pressure BH/PS, but it's really not. all it does is make your vote meaningless. I revise my read in papasmurf from scummish to townish if he is really BH-- this is how BH plays as town. Vayne's post #137 further reinforces my idea that he is town. His questions are good but don't take into account who papasmurf is. I don't like SnB's #138 though. His responses aren't really meaningful and dont' promote discussion, but it looks like he's contributing. If SnB is scum, I'd be more convinced by hist post #138 than by the other posts he's made before that. P8 Papasmurf is being typical blazinghand in his argument with VA. VA equivocating in post #143 sounds like backtracking, but when you've got PS/BH on you for every little turn of phrase, posts like that get made. Still, a point against him. What is Koshi saying here? SnB's post here isn't scummy but it's not very well-thought-out. why ask all these questions in one post? of course you don't find someone defending you worrying, because he's DEFENDING you. VA's defense is reasonable and people's attacks on SNB prior to P7 second half are unreasonable, but VA has definitely defended SnB on relatively shakey grounds with SnB only had two votes on him. Who is SnB to say that VA wasn't "trying to be right" as so many scum do? What we have here is SnB 'wants' VA to be town, because he doesn't like the idea of being defended by scum. Not saying it's true/false, but SnB what you're doing here is stating a conclusion then looking for evidence to back it up, rather than the other way around. PS/BH with the classic "dumb or scum" statement. P9 VA's "my two cents" and "lol" strike me as odd in 162. Would you say that as town? off-handedly, sure. I like VA for town still. I could see him diffusing tension after this, though. I have questions for him. WoS's inactivity claim strikes me as very convenient. This should be considered a mark against him regardless of circumstances. GK's entrance is solid. It's the kind of question someone who just caught up reading would ask-- he's actually reading the thread for sure. So, now that I'm caught up, a few statements and questions S + Q 1. I know this game is very conversational, but all the spam and one-lining makes it difficult to read and analyze. Some people have that style, and it doesn't take that much longer to read, but it will take me a little bit of time to get used to it. I am glad that people are getting involved! 2. Yes, I am a smurf. I have played on TL before and thought I could use a new start... the hosts know about this and are okay with it. 3. I know we're long past policy, but since I am a smurf and don't have a history written out of what policies I like, here are my thoughts on policy: i. TL towns do not policy lynch enough, not by far ii. the policy lynch should be used D1, not any time close to lylo, since the d1 lynch is the least useful iii. the policy lynch must be stated with full willingness to follow through, and mislynch, as a result iiii. policy lynch should be used on fake-claimers, liars, lurkers, and players whose play is generally unacceptable. v. I may have a scumread today I consider more strongly than a policy lynch. I will be open as possible with my reads and thoughts so that i can be convinced, and convincing. I think our best play on D1 can be to policy lynch though... it makes play stronger. I am aware this is a controversial opinion, but it is also a good one. If you disagree with me, that is okay 4. This is @vayneauthority: despite the fact that you have interacted obliquely with Koshi, you do not mention him ever. Do you think he is town, or he is scum? What do you think of his initial vote on SnB for questioning his "policy" of lynching scum? What do you think of his "policy"? Why haven't you weighed in on him yet? 5. this is @SnB: you think koshi is "uncomfortable" and "projecting"... and you also say he is "silly". do you have a scumread on him or not? 5.b this is @SnB: what do you think of VA, in light of my notes on him? Would you say your perception of him is colored by his defense of you? taking that into account, do you see why he is viewed as scummy? 6. this is @papa_smurf: why did you smurf into this game? Are you really BH? After you unvote SnB you don't mention him again. Do you still have a scumread on him, or do you think he is town because VA is scum? On September 12 2013 13:07 Old Partner wrote: now I am really caught up! More statements and questions accompany these notes. + Show Spoiler [P11 and P12 notes[/spoiler] + P10 GK's question of grack is reasonable grack's response is also seems reasonable wow, I really like GK's followup analysis/summary in post #183. I hadn't realized this sort of contradiction in grack's reasoning. After all, it does seem weird for VA to have a strong townread so suddenly, but he did give a reason. the natural point to turn on thwn would be to engage that reason in discussion/analysis. WoS's followup looks town-motivated to me. I don't like that he calls SnB's unusually strong effort not-townie. SnB seems like a somewhat obvious town to me at least in terms of how he's thinking. If his usual level of effort is less than this, and he stepped it up, he should be town. WoS could really not know what to think of this, but i dont' see why this would not be a towntell for SnB. I haven't been paying an appropriate amount of attention to grack, and WoS's read looks like a solid one to me. He is jumping the gun by voting on small evidence, but perhaps that is his style-- all ##vote and no ##fos. I will be interested to see his target's regracktion to this attack. A standard call-out of a /confirmer and a name-claimer, nothing too special at the end there. Overall, I am less interested in a WoS lynch today after this post. If he will be posting like this regularly he is worth keeping around. His statement on Kush intrigues me. I am not familiar with Kush's meta other than that many players consider him bad/trollish. I don't understand VA's non-3p read. That's not a useful read to make at all. 8( Ah, here we see debears smurf-slipping, as mentioned to me. Papa_smurf, what a chump! VA is backtracking and equivocating again. This is not what I would expect a town player to do. his response to the debears smurfslip is immediate suspicion based on... lying? P11 It looks like now there is a discussion about Aperture mafia and these players interacted there. PS/DB's read on VA's early strong read (something that scum would do, say, on a townie to collect towncred) is supposed to not make sense given that PS/DB played with VA in Aperture. I'm not sure why PS/DB backs off from VA here. 1. @VA, if you are accusing PS/DB of not understanding your meta and hiding that fact based on events in Aperture, you should quote, link, or otherwise point us towards the incrongruity. 2. @WoS, I would like to know about your read on SnB. SnB's finding out that PS is coaching a newbie game, then asking him about it, strikes me as townie. After all, making that connection is not something he'd have to do as scum. Townies inherently are trying to find things out about the game, whereas scum are trying to conceal. You also make a meta note that SnB is trying much harder to help and be productive this game. Why doesn't this result in a townread on SnB for you? I'd like to hear your thought process. 3. @VA (again), I'd like to know specifically what lead to your non-3p read on WoS. You say it was just a joke, but this is the second time you have backtracked/equivocated. I'm willing to accept it as a joke, especially with the smiley face, but what brought it to mind? Why, in a post in which you explicitly buddy WoS, do you say your read on him is non-3p, and not say, townie? I know you have history with him, but surely you'd prefer to just call him town? 4 @PS/DB, I am okay with kush's policy vote on WoS-- it is not a scumtell. I am willing to policy lynch kush based on his previous play, but we have not come to that part of the day yet. There is much to see and talk about first. Would you be interested in policy lynching kush? unless we have a vigilante, we can expect him to be a burden at LYLO. he has said and analyzed nothing, and his taste in culinary television is questionable at best. Similitaries: - Read on SnB (your point (1) of Pandain being scum) - Policy on kush (your point (2) of Pandain being scum) Differences: - Pandain gives other reads with reasoning - Old Partner says: 1) "This happened then that happened" 2) "These guys could be scum or they could be town" TLDR; Why are people sold on Pandain being scum but ignoring OP, as they have same (bad) arguments, but Pandain has some good ones too, when OP does not? | ||
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