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On March 28 2013 11:52 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:On March 28 2013 07:08 Telenil wrote:On March 28 2013 06:58 Gogo1 wrote: I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in your first paragraph. Are you suggesting that instead of having protoss on Kaldir, they should just have had some random creatures whose genetics Abathur could weave into the swarm? I wasn't very clear, but I was refering to evolution missions. There are some levels when you get new DNA, and Kerrigan says "hey, what about slaughtering these Protoss over there!" That's where Abathur could put Swarm creatures against each other instead. The evolution missions are filler, so it's tempting to see them as inconsequential to the main plot. I don't think any of these missions take place on recognizable worlds or are even referred to later on. Yet they very much happen and it constantly has Kerrigan telling her forces to kill a random group of terran or protoss that are off at some remote planet for the purposes of experimentation. I would say that Kerrigan is being evil in these cases. (I forgot if she ever attacks any protoss during the evolution missions, I didn't play all of them myself) I only start talking about Kaldir in the second paragraph. Also, having the Golden Armada attacking the Swarm may not have been such a bad idea, but wouldn't that leave the protoss basically defenseless? I don't know Starcraft lore in detail, so I don't really know how that would work out. And you'd also have the people who enjoy the protoss race cry over how their epic army gets beaten by Kerrigan. Obviously, but I am kind of a Protoss fan myself and I wouldn't expect the Protoss to defeat the entire Swarm on their own either. You can have them kill a Brood Mother, force Kerrigan to re-deploy her forces to face them, and generally have the attack disrupt her plans. There is a big difference between "the Golden Armada shows up and gets stomped", and "the Protoss do good damage before being forced to retreat at the end of 2-3 missions". The problem some people have with Protoss in Starcraft is not that they get defeated, it is more like they don't seem to ever be a threat. They come at the start of the level, get rolled over and die without being much more than a nuisance. The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Two things: First, The evolution missions are not filler. They're just not essential to the main plot. uh... you just said its not filler and then went on to describe their purpose by pretty much giving the dictionary definition of what "filler" is. Just pointing that out in your thought processes.
Yeah, the evolution missions could have been handled as secondary objectives during a more plot relevant mission instead. Not optional, but more of a boost "needed" to beat the primary objective and is retained after the mission. Hell and achievement couldve been related to not evolving and only using WoL and/or BW type Zerg Units.
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Northern Ireland21022 Posts
Great OP, good discussion here.
Anyway to add to the discussion I considered this:
'Who are YOU?'\\
Plot holes aside, of which there are many I felt curiously unimmersed in things and I feel this was part of the reason why. All through BW you are specifically mentioned as adjucant [sic], executor etc etc. Your disembodied vision is really that of some military commander, and you are privy to conversations between the main characters of the game, or there in person.
Now in SC2, you tend to experience things as 'Kerrigan' in HoTS, or generally Raynor in WoL. You go arounnd the ship, and talk to the various characters. I for one loved Abathor and his strange chat in this one. Even the bridge of the hyperion/HoTS equivalent storytelling mechanism, which I actually quite like didn't really work for me.
I think the issue is that you are so manifestly put into a certain characters shoes, rather than being some blank canvas who you fill as you go along. There is a great frustration to me, that when the characters do silly things, or out-of-character kind of actions, you are forced to just 'go along with it'.
I don't know I just felt this kind of breaks the immersion entirely. You are not 'The Executor', chilling on the bridge with Zeratul, Tassadar and the boys, who follows orders to the best of his ability when ordered to by his superiors, you are 'Kerrigan' and all the frustration of this kind of for me is that you are playing as a character with the actual power to shape the events, who keeps on doing things that are quite frankly retarded.
In Brood War I was never snapped 'out' of the world once I was in it, because I felt like some badass comamander, hell I mightn't agree with whatever Kerrigan/Artanis/Mengsk are sending me out to do, but hey such is the life of a subordinate, better get on with it.
With the SC2 arc on the whole, it's just ridiculous act after ridiculous act, but there's not that sense of 'duty' to the commander if you will, you are that commander and it's really irritating me over time.
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On March 28 2013 08:29 Gogo1 wrote: Don't forget what the evolution mission were supposed to accomplish in the first place. They weren't supposed to be part of the main plot at all. They included them to fix one of the problems people had with WoL: the research upgrades. I read somewhere (I forget where, unfortunately) that people had to look up online what to pick, because they couldn't really tell what was good. So what Blizzard decided - and in my opinion it was a good way of solving the issue - was that you have these mini-missions that aren't important, but they highlight what the evolution / research does. That way you have more of a basis to choose from, instead of just estimation. I don't think anyone ever complained about evolution missions existing, and I consider the mutation/evolution mechanic to be the best idea they ever had in the SC2 single player. But that's irrelevant when discussing the story. Evolution missions are missions, what happens there is as relevant as what happens in the 20 core missions.On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:
The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Back in Starcraft 1, the Zerg won a lot of battles offscreen in the first Terran campaign. The Protoss had a major victory by killing a Cerebrate in the Zerg campaign. A UED level ended with the UED force being defeated by a massive Zerg force and the enemy you were hunting down escaping. Of course the player's race will win most of the time, but it is possible to add setbacks or make it clear that your victory was not a decisive won.
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For my part, there is one thing that is missing:
Her actions seem to be misleading... But that was is neccessary are her flashbacks at the moment she decides to do the action...
The moment she kisses Raynor, is kind of awkward... of course, its not a typical dialog, neither a typical scene like we know it. Just think about yourself right before you decide to do some action, you think about your experience and the emotions you had right at that time. This amplifies your decision to an extend that everything doesnt matter.
Back to Kerrigan, she was a Ghost and did some special training. Still, she kind of steamrolled over the world while being the queen of blades in brood war. She played with people and probably wasnt interested in the rest after she got the confirmation what she is capable of.
There is no clear reason why she was inactive the time between brood war and wings of liberty. Everyone aggrees that there is something that we dont know yet and that there is something that she was probably doing during that time. She's not the kind of person that didnt do things without reason.
Everyone that read the manga "bleach" can compare her with "aizen sousuke", which is one of the evil guys that planned out nearly everything, maybe even everything, because the current actions also come back to his actions...
The dialogs dont fit for the most of us, but that has to be like that, because this is a different world with different experiences... There are phraises we use, that are probably different in their worlds meaning.
There is no full translation for their world to ours, this is what makes it special. If it would be "perfect", then it would seem unrealistic and get even worse...
The only thing what i find could have been a big improvement was some flashbacks.
- When Kerrigan gets the sniper rifle (just one scene of her fighting with raynor at her side) - When Kerrigan is close to Raynor (just before the kiss, a moment when she was happy <--- which was a long time ago...) - When Kerrigan gets the Information that Raynor died (Kerrigan rages first, then should have been a flashback to that time when she loses her parrents, because of her powers) - When Kerrigan becomes the Primal Queen of Blades (before coming out of the Egg, she should have a flashback of Mengsks action, that make her go mad)
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This was an incredibly in depth review. Very good points and observations. The story could've indeed been way more carefully designed.
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On March 28 2013 17:41 NeoCyberD wrote: For my part, there is one thing that is missing:
Her actions seem to be misleading... But that was is neccessary are her flashbacks at the moment she decides to do the action...
The moment she kisses Raynor, is kind of awkward... of course, its not a typical dialog, neither a typical scene like we know it. Just think about yourself right before you decide to do some action, you think about your experience and the emotions you had right at that time. This amplifies your decision to an extend that everything doesnt matter.
Back to Kerrigan, she was a Ghost and did some special training. Still, she kind of steamrolled over the world while being the queen of blades in brood war. She played with people and probably wasnt interested in the rest after she got the confirmation what she is capable of.
There is no clear reason why she was inactive the time between brood war and wings of liberty. Everyone aggrees that there is something that we dont know yet and that there is something that she was probably doing during that time. She's not the kind of person that didnt do things without reason.
Everyone that read the manga "bleach" can compare her with "aizen sousuke", which is one of the evil guys that planned out nearly everything, maybe even everything, because the current actions also come back to his actions...
The dialogs dont fit for the most of us, but that has to be like that, because this is a different world with different experiences... There are phraises we use, that are probably different in their worlds meaning.
There is no full translation for their world to ours, this is what makes it special. If it would be "perfect", then it would seem unrealistic and get even worse...
The only thing what i find could have been a big improvement was some flashbacks.
- When Kerrigan gets the sniper rifle (just one scene of her fighting with raynor at her side) - When Kerrigan is close to Raynor (just before the kiss, a moment when she was happy <--- which was a long time ago...) - When Kerrigan gets the Information that Raynor died (Kerrigan rages first, then should have been a flashback to that time when she loses her parrents, because of her powers) - When Kerrigan becomes the Primal Queen of Blades (before coming out of the Egg, she should have a flashback of Mengsks action, that make her go mad)
About what Kerrigan did after BW, I dissagree a bit. BW ended with her complete dominance over the sector, but her final lines are that she would "allow them (her unlikely allies) repreive" and "in time test their resolve". This means to me that she was content with chilling at that point. What we're missing is how Kerrigan found out about the whole prophecy thing and how/why she thought she could use the Zelnaga artifact to stop it.
On a side note, it's interesting that in BW Kerrigan even allowed Mengks to live, making both the humanized and primal Kerrigan more revenge bent than our BW-zerg kerrigan (to whom leaving Arcturus with a burning Dominion was enough revenge).
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On March 28 2013 11:52 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:On March 28 2013 07:08 Telenil wrote:On March 28 2013 06:58 Gogo1 wrote: I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in your first paragraph. Are you suggesting that instead of having protoss on Kaldir, they should just have had some random creatures whose genetics Abathur could weave into the swarm? I wasn't very clear, but I was refering to evolution missions. There are some levels when you get new DNA, and Kerrigan says "hey, what about slaughtering these Protoss over there!" That's where Abathur could put Swarm creatures against each other instead. The evolution missions are filler, so it's tempting to see them as inconsequential to the main plot. I don't think any of these missions take place on recognizable worlds or are even referred to later on. Yet they very much happen and it constantly has Kerrigan telling her forces to kill a random group of terran or protoss that are off at some remote planet for the purposes of experimentation. I would say that Kerrigan is being evil in these cases. (I forgot if she ever attacks any protoss during the evolution missions, I didn't play all of them myself) I only start talking about Kaldir in the second paragraph. Also, having the Golden Armada attacking the Swarm may not have been such a bad idea, but wouldn't that leave the protoss basically defenseless? I don't know Starcraft lore in detail, so I don't really know how that would work out. And you'd also have the people who enjoy the protoss race cry over how their epic army gets beaten by Kerrigan. Obviously, but I am kind of a Protoss fan myself and I wouldn't expect the Protoss to defeat the entire Swarm on their own either. You can have them kill a Brood Mother, force Kerrigan to re-deploy her forces to face them, and generally have the attack disrupt her plans. There is a big difference between "the Golden Armada shows up and gets stomped", and "the Protoss do good damage before being forced to retreat at the end of 2-3 missions". The problem some people have with Protoss in Starcraft is not that they get defeated, it is more like they don't seem to ever be a threat. They come at the start of the level, get rolled over and die without being much more than a nuisance. The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Two things: First, The evolution missions are not filler. They're just not essential to the main plot. uh... you just said its not filler and then went on to describe their purpose by pretty much giving the dictionary definition of what "filler" is. Just pointing that out in your thought processes.
They're as much "filler" as Abathur is filler. Neither are needed but both are used to expand the feel of the universe.
Kerrigan keeps talking about how she *is* the swarm and how she can *feel* and *command* the swarm.
When Kerrigan gets new broods into the swarm she uses her mental powers to tell them to take over such and such planet.
And as you get new evolutions she leads them as well because she doesn't just give orders, she commands the entirety of the swarm.
Its all part of the whole "one with the swarm" deal. Its not relevant to the plot, but its there to enhance it. Its supposed to make you feel like Kerrigan doesn't have tunnel vision and is only attacking this one planet or achieving just one goal at a time. She's commanding everything. The invasion of multiple planets as well as skirmishes in random worlds where her troops are also at. She might be standing on Zerus, but she's micromanaging 5-8 different campaigns across 4-6 different planets all while going D3 on Belial. Its pretty bad-ass, badly executed, but bad-ass.
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On March 29 2013 01:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 11:52 sCCrooked wrote:On March 28 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:On March 28 2013 07:08 Telenil wrote:On March 28 2013 06:58 Gogo1 wrote: I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in your first paragraph. Are you suggesting that instead of having protoss on Kaldir, they should just have had some random creatures whose genetics Abathur could weave into the swarm? I wasn't very clear, but I was refering to evolution missions. There are some levels when you get new DNA, and Kerrigan says "hey, what about slaughtering these Protoss over there!" That's where Abathur could put Swarm creatures against each other instead. The evolution missions are filler, so it's tempting to see them as inconsequential to the main plot. I don't think any of these missions take place on recognizable worlds or are even referred to later on. Yet they very much happen and it constantly has Kerrigan telling her forces to kill a random group of terran or protoss that are off at some remote planet for the purposes of experimentation. I would say that Kerrigan is being evil in these cases. (I forgot if she ever attacks any protoss during the evolution missions, I didn't play all of them myself) I only start talking about Kaldir in the second paragraph. Also, having the Golden Armada attacking the Swarm may not have been such a bad idea, but wouldn't that leave the protoss basically defenseless? I don't know Starcraft lore in detail, so I don't really know how that would work out. And you'd also have the people who enjoy the protoss race cry over how their epic army gets beaten by Kerrigan. Obviously, but I am kind of a Protoss fan myself and I wouldn't expect the Protoss to defeat the entire Swarm on their own either. You can have them kill a Brood Mother, force Kerrigan to re-deploy her forces to face them, and generally have the attack disrupt her plans. There is a big difference between "the Golden Armada shows up and gets stomped", and "the Protoss do good damage before being forced to retreat at the end of 2-3 missions". The problem some people have with Protoss in Starcraft is not that they get defeated, it is more like they don't seem to ever be a threat. They come at the start of the level, get rolled over and die without being much more than a nuisance. The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Two things: First, The evolution missions are not filler. They're just not essential to the main plot. uh... you just said its not filler and then went on to describe their purpose by pretty much giving the dictionary definition of what "filler" is. Just pointing that out in your thought processes. They're as much "filler" as Abathur is filler. Neither are needed but both are used to expand the feel of the universe. Kerrigan keeps talking about how she *is* the swarm and how she can *feel* and *command* the swarm. When Kerrigan gets new broods into the swarm she uses her mental powers to tell them to take over such and such planet. And as you get new evolutions she leads them as well because she doesn't just give orders, she commands the entirety of the swarm. Its all part of the whole "one with the swarm" deal. Its not relevant to the plot, but its there to enhance it. Its supposed to make you feel like Kerrigan doesn't have tunnel vision and is only attacking this one planet or achieving just one goal at a time. She's commanding everything. The invasion of multiple planets as well as skirmishes in random worlds where her troops are also at. She might be standing on Zerus, but she's micromanaging 5-8 different campaigns across 4-6 different planets all while going D3 on Belial. Its pretty bad-ass, badly executed, but bad-ass.
Which of course makes no sense at all because she was able to do all that and much more in Brood War's storyline. Nice justification.
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First dear OP i liked the read and i´m stunned how much effort you put into it. Nonetheless i have some points i think you make a misinterpretation or i just have another opinion then you. I would like to share my thoughts about your thread with you.
PTSD, Rise of the Curtain This part shows how you wanted to lead your reader in a direction. I don´t follow you here. Sure the conception of showing off the Viking is true. But the scene let space for interpretation. I must question the scene here: Why only one Viking of the squadron landed? I come to the conclusion that there is maybe a story behind what you see. I also think it was suicidal or let me be clearer a moment of madness. I interpreted the scene immediately as a "revenge madness". In the tank that got smashed was the son of the Viking pilot.
The sentence "..but it still would be out of place as imagery from a the mind of fully matured adult.." is looking like an argument but it´s only your personal opinion here.
Flashpoint and the Problem with People A good text. I support what you said there nontheless the information in it are canon.
Sector One: Missions 1-4 Well here´s a big part where i just have a different opinion then you and am quite happy with it. This remembers me of one of my favorite books and a conversation with a friend about it. A character with a very weird name was in it and so we talked about the book, the story and well about that character. I had a total different pronunciation of the name then my friend. He corrected me and well he was right with the spelling. I said to him you know i don´t give a fuck about how you spell it, the character will always have MY spelling in MY head.
The same thing i apply to your try of explaining me the story between Kerrigan and Raynor. I never ever even was in question if the two had "something" since sc1/bw. And i really like the love story (It´s funny though that my perception or interpretation of the story between them in sc1/bw was underpinned in sc2).
Anyway. One thing to add to this chapter. You´re questioning why Raynor isn´t concerned about what happened down there in the lab. Well in first place Raynor is pissed about the "tests" they do with Kerrigan. Then the son of the one both have sworn death is testing Kerrigans ability to control the swarm again (Like father, like son). I think this mix is one in the eye for Valerian and overcomes the concerns Raynor maybe have. And why shouldn´t he say "Never"? Their band is thin enough. Why destroy it with negative comments from Jim? I also imply that he thinks Kerrigan is already purified of her old alter ego.
A Return to Story Here i totally agree with what you said about the broadcast and how Kerrigan falls to this. This was a really poor moment of storytelling. Though the next part of this section i would call (Sorry for that) utterly bullshit. Let´s just accept that she really believes now that Raynor is dead. She is alone, powerless, hunted by nearly the whole universe and her best friend is dead. It doesn´t matter if the character in this moment is a man or a woman or if she "was one of the best ghosts in all of the Koprulu sector". It´s just a very human behavior.. finally. Also the moment when she looked up to the zergling was a strong picture you seem totally forgot to mention.
Sector Two: Mid Game Missions 5-15 You´re totally right there´s no explanation of how groups of the primal zerg were able to survive/hide/overlooked-by the creation of the Overmind and the alteration of Amon. What really pisses me off btw. Blizzard is introducing a new story arc but only with a blink on it. And how Zeratul should know about the power on Zerus and where it is. I CAN imagine however where he pulled this off but it´s just inconsistent storytelling blizzard is doing here. But I would be cautious with your following interpretation of how Zerg evolved. Only the very first Zergs were purely parasitic. The problem in the canonical history of Zerg evolution is that there are missing links and not described mechanism till HotS how they assimilate other species. There are also examples of specimen that were assimilated but were not annihilated (Dune runner).
Ascension Here i´m a bit lost about what you mean. She steps into the pool knowing it would probably kill her. What would be more steeled determination? Oo Also they showed the artifact as counterpart of the new acquired power of Kerrigan and to produce a viewer question which power will be stronger.
A Short Game Design Excursion: Really, It's Short This Time Good point about the sound. Also your thoughts on the RPG -> other bliz games parts are a strong point of what´s wrong.
Sector Three: Revelations and the Endgame (Missions 16-27) Full support your thoughts about Stukov here.
The hybrid and Xel Naga device are a sensitive story. You´re mixing here conclusions with questions so I skip this whole part because it seems you didn´t put much effort into this paragraph. A problem here´s also flashpoint and the statement of Nurad that the device destroys DNS. The Duran Part has one big major flaw. You compare alien psychology with human psychology.
Coming to a Head Your arguments are based on an opinion here. My opinion always was and will be that Kerrigan and infested Kerrigan were always two different personas. Therefor there would be nothing to discuss here for us two and I also liked the scene very much.
Final Set Again you´re basing your facts on missing links and assumption. First, cerebrats have psionic powers. Also psychic powers ARE psionic powers. Dunno what you´re thinking here.
The next thing about Darka. We just not know how exactly the first Overmind was created and how he/it developed telepathy to control the first zergs. You argumentation really confuses me here.
The last scene. Well. While I absolutely think Kerrigan is able to fly I didn´t liked it. Muta-Taxi would have been better. But the sentence Jim said is absolutely ok. Oo Quote from Chris Metzen:”Jim Raynor… man struggling with his own demons while saving a woman from her own”
Treating with the Heart of Children Good points. =)
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On March 29 2013 01:35 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 01:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 11:52 sCCrooked wrote:On March 28 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:On March 28 2013 07:08 Telenil wrote:On March 28 2013 06:58 Gogo1 wrote: I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in your first paragraph. Are you suggesting that instead of having protoss on Kaldir, they should just have had some random creatures whose genetics Abathur could weave into the swarm? I wasn't very clear, but I was refering to evolution missions. There are some levels when you get new DNA, and Kerrigan says "hey, what about slaughtering these Protoss over there!" That's where Abathur could put Swarm creatures against each other instead. The evolution missions are filler, so it's tempting to see them as inconsequential to the main plot. I don't think any of these missions take place on recognizable worlds or are even referred to later on. Yet they very much happen and it constantly has Kerrigan telling her forces to kill a random group of terran or protoss that are off at some remote planet for the purposes of experimentation. I would say that Kerrigan is being evil in these cases. (I forgot if she ever attacks any protoss during the evolution missions, I didn't play all of them myself) I only start talking about Kaldir in the second paragraph. Also, having the Golden Armada attacking the Swarm may not have been such a bad idea, but wouldn't that leave the protoss basically defenseless? I don't know Starcraft lore in detail, so I don't really know how that would work out. And you'd also have the people who enjoy the protoss race cry over how their epic army gets beaten by Kerrigan. Obviously, but I am kind of a Protoss fan myself and I wouldn't expect the Protoss to defeat the entire Swarm on their own either. You can have them kill a Brood Mother, force Kerrigan to re-deploy her forces to face them, and generally have the attack disrupt her plans. There is a big difference between "the Golden Armada shows up and gets stomped", and "the Protoss do good damage before being forced to retreat at the end of 2-3 missions". The problem some people have with Protoss in Starcraft is not that they get defeated, it is more like they don't seem to ever be a threat. They come at the start of the level, get rolled over and die without being much more than a nuisance. The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Two things: First, The evolution missions are not filler. They're just not essential to the main plot. uh... you just said its not filler and then went on to describe their purpose by pretty much giving the dictionary definition of what "filler" is. Just pointing that out in your thought processes. They're as much "filler" as Abathur is filler. Neither are needed but both are used to expand the feel of the universe. Kerrigan keeps talking about how she *is* the swarm and how she can *feel* and *command* the swarm. When Kerrigan gets new broods into the swarm she uses her mental powers to tell them to take over such and such planet. And as you get new evolutions she leads them as well because she doesn't just give orders, she commands the entirety of the swarm. Its all part of the whole "one with the swarm" deal. Its not relevant to the plot, but its there to enhance it. Its supposed to make you feel like Kerrigan doesn't have tunnel vision and is only attacking this one planet or achieving just one goal at a time. She's commanding everything. The invasion of multiple planets as well as skirmishes in random worlds where her troops are also at. She might be standing on Zerus, but she's micromanaging 5-8 different campaigns across 4-6 different planets all while going D3 on Belial. Its pretty bad-ass, badly executed, but bad-ass. Which of course makes no sense at all because she was able to do all that and much more in Brood War's storyline. Nice justification.
It isn't justification, it's what we are presented.
She commands queens in space ships, she commands queens in other planets, she commands everything zerg and she grows more powerful she commands more and more zerg. This is not my interpretation, this is literally what is happening as you play the game. It is not a stretch that she is also controlling other zerg units in other planets as they are attacking installations and fortifications. Her influence can be overly micro-managey like she did in the protoss ship, or it can be broad like when she tells brood mothers to attack planets, or it can be a bit in between where she tells a pack of ______ to attack a small base like she does in the missions.
Its bland, and boring, and to unobservant kids it can be hard to see, but it's literally what is happening in front of you. Its not my justification if its the empirical data presented.
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On March 29 2013 02:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 01:35 sCCrooked wrote:On March 29 2013 01:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 11:52 sCCrooked wrote:On March 28 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:On March 28 2013 07:08 Telenil wrote:On March 28 2013 06:58 Gogo1 wrote: I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in your first paragraph. Are you suggesting that instead of having protoss on Kaldir, they should just have had some random creatures whose genetics Abathur could weave into the swarm? I wasn't very clear, but I was refering to evolution missions. There are some levels when you get new DNA, and Kerrigan says "hey, what about slaughtering these Protoss over there!" That's where Abathur could put Swarm creatures against each other instead. The evolution missions are filler, so it's tempting to see them as inconsequential to the main plot. I don't think any of these missions take place on recognizable worlds or are even referred to later on. Yet they very much happen and it constantly has Kerrigan telling her forces to kill a random group of terran or protoss that are off at some remote planet for the purposes of experimentation. I would say that Kerrigan is being evil in these cases. (I forgot if she ever attacks any protoss during the evolution missions, I didn't play all of them myself) I only start talking about Kaldir in the second paragraph. Also, having the Golden Armada attacking the Swarm may not have been such a bad idea, but wouldn't that leave the protoss basically defenseless? I don't know Starcraft lore in detail, so I don't really know how that would work out. And you'd also have the people who enjoy the protoss race cry over how their epic army gets beaten by Kerrigan. Obviously, but I am kind of a Protoss fan myself and I wouldn't expect the Protoss to defeat the entire Swarm on their own either. You can have them kill a Brood Mother, force Kerrigan to re-deploy her forces to face them, and generally have the attack disrupt her plans. There is a big difference between "the Golden Armada shows up and gets stomped", and "the Protoss do good damage before being forced to retreat at the end of 2-3 missions". The problem some people have with Protoss in Starcraft is not that they get defeated, it is more like they don't seem to ever be a threat. They come at the start of the level, get rolled over and die without being much more than a nuisance. The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Two things: First, The evolution missions are not filler. They're just not essential to the main plot. uh... you just said its not filler and then went on to describe their purpose by pretty much giving the dictionary definition of what "filler" is. Just pointing that out in your thought processes. They're as much "filler" as Abathur is filler. Neither are needed but both are used to expand the feel of the universe. Kerrigan keeps talking about how she *is* the swarm and how she can *feel* and *command* the swarm. When Kerrigan gets new broods into the swarm she uses her mental powers to tell them to take over such and such planet. And as you get new evolutions she leads them as well because she doesn't just give orders, she commands the entirety of the swarm. Its all part of the whole "one with the swarm" deal. Its not relevant to the plot, but its there to enhance it. Its supposed to make you feel like Kerrigan doesn't have tunnel vision and is only attacking this one planet or achieving just one goal at a time. She's commanding everything. The invasion of multiple planets as well as skirmishes in random worlds where her troops are also at. She might be standing on Zerus, but she's micromanaging 5-8 different campaigns across 4-6 different planets all while going D3 on Belial. Its pretty bad-ass, badly executed, but bad-ass. Which of course makes no sense at all because she was able to do all that and much more in Brood War's storyline. Nice justification. It isn't justification, it's what we are presented. She commands queens in space ships, she commands queens in other planets, she commands everything zerg and she grows more powerful she commands more and more zerg. This is not my interpretation, this is literally what is happening as you play the game. It is not a stretch that she is also controlling other zerg units in other planets as they are attacking installations and fortifications. Her influence can be overly micro-managey like she did in the protoss ship, or it can be broad like when she tells brood mothers to attack planets, or it can be a bit in between where she tells a pack of ______ to attack a small base like she does in the missions. Its bland, and boring, and to unobservant kids it can be hard to see, but it's literally what is happening in front of you. Its not my justification if its the empirical data presented. After the nth evolution mission it became filler, sorry.
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Northern Ireland21022 Posts
On March 29 2013 02:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 01:35 sCCrooked wrote:On March 29 2013 01:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 11:52 sCCrooked wrote:On March 28 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:On March 28 2013 07:08 Telenil wrote:On March 28 2013 06:58 Gogo1 wrote: I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in your first paragraph. Are you suggesting that instead of having protoss on Kaldir, they should just have had some random creatures whose genetics Abathur could weave into the swarm? I wasn't very clear, but I was refering to evolution missions. There are some levels when you get new DNA, and Kerrigan says "hey, what about slaughtering these Protoss over there!" That's where Abathur could put Swarm creatures against each other instead. The evolution missions are filler, so it's tempting to see them as inconsequential to the main plot. I don't think any of these missions take place on recognizable worlds or are even referred to later on. Yet they very much happen and it constantly has Kerrigan telling her forces to kill a random group of terran or protoss that are off at some remote planet for the purposes of experimentation. I would say that Kerrigan is being evil in these cases. (I forgot if she ever attacks any protoss during the evolution missions, I didn't play all of them myself) I only start talking about Kaldir in the second paragraph. Also, having the Golden Armada attacking the Swarm may not have been such a bad idea, but wouldn't that leave the protoss basically defenseless? I don't know Starcraft lore in detail, so I don't really know how that would work out. And you'd also have the people who enjoy the protoss race cry over how their epic army gets beaten by Kerrigan. Obviously, but I am kind of a Protoss fan myself and I wouldn't expect the Protoss to defeat the entire Swarm on their own either. You can have them kill a Brood Mother, force Kerrigan to re-deploy her forces to face them, and generally have the attack disrupt her plans. There is a big difference between "the Golden Armada shows up and gets stomped", and "the Protoss do good damage before being forced to retreat at the end of 2-3 missions". The problem some people have with Protoss in Starcraft is not that they get defeated, it is more like they don't seem to ever be a threat. They come at the start of the level, get rolled over and die without being much more than a nuisance. The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Two things: First, The evolution missions are not filler. They're just not essential to the main plot. uh... you just said its not filler and then went on to describe their purpose by pretty much giving the dictionary definition of what "filler" is. Just pointing that out in your thought processes. They're as much "filler" as Abathur is filler. Neither are needed but both are used to expand the feel of the universe. Kerrigan keeps talking about how she *is* the swarm and how she can *feel* and *command* the swarm. When Kerrigan gets new broods into the swarm she uses her mental powers to tell them to take over such and such planet. And as you get new evolutions she leads them as well because she doesn't just give orders, she commands the entirety of the swarm. Its all part of the whole "one with the swarm" deal. Its not relevant to the plot, but its there to enhance it. Its supposed to make you feel like Kerrigan doesn't have tunnel vision and is only attacking this one planet or achieving just one goal at a time. She's commanding everything. The invasion of multiple planets as well as skirmishes in random worlds where her troops are also at. She might be standing on Zerus, but she's micromanaging 5-8 different campaigns across 4-6 different planets all while going D3 on Belial. Its pretty bad-ass, badly executed, but bad-ass. Which of course makes no sense at all because she was able to do all that and much more in Brood War's storyline. Nice justification. It isn't justification, it's what we are presented. She commands queens in space ships, she commands queens in other planets, she commands everything zerg and she grows more powerful she commands more and more zerg. This is not my interpretation, this is literally what is happening as you play the game. It is not a stretch that she is also controlling other zerg units in other planets as they are attacking installations and fortifications. Her influence can be overly micro-managey like she did in the protoss ship, or it can be broad like when she tells brood mothers to attack planets, or it can be a bit in between where she tells a pack of ______ to attack a small base like she does in the missions. Its bland, and boring, and to unobservant kids it can be hard to see, but it's literally what is happening in front of you. Its not my justification if its the empirical data presented. Kerrigan must have absolutely insane mechanical chops, probably make Jaedong's stream look like it was in slow motion
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A Breakdown of Players' Qualms With The Story:
Players expected Jim to kill Kerrigan. Jim didn't kill Kerrigan.
Players expected SC2 to be well written, like BW. SC2 wasn't well written.
Players expected characters to make sense. Characters don't make sense.
Now, I fully agree with the above, but, overall, I enjoy the story. It's cheesy space opera, and that's all it will ever be, and all I appreciate it for.
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On March 29 2013 02:31 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 02:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 29 2013 01:35 sCCrooked wrote:On March 29 2013 01:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 11:52 sCCrooked wrote:On March 28 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:On March 28 2013 07:08 Telenil wrote:On March 28 2013 06:58 Gogo1 wrote: I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in your first paragraph. Are you suggesting that instead of having protoss on Kaldir, they should just have had some random creatures whose genetics Abathur could weave into the swarm? I wasn't very clear, but I was refering to evolution missions. There are some levels when you get new DNA, and Kerrigan says "hey, what about slaughtering these Protoss over there!" That's where Abathur could put Swarm creatures against each other instead. The evolution missions are filler, so it's tempting to see them as inconsequential to the main plot. I don't think any of these missions take place on recognizable worlds or are even referred to later on. Yet they very much happen and it constantly has Kerrigan telling her forces to kill a random group of terran or protoss that are off at some remote planet for the purposes of experimentation. I would say that Kerrigan is being evil in these cases. (I forgot if she ever attacks any protoss during the evolution missions, I didn't play all of them myself) I only start talking about Kaldir in the second paragraph. Also, having the Golden Armada attacking the Swarm may not have been such a bad idea, but wouldn't that leave the protoss basically defenseless? I don't know Starcraft lore in detail, so I don't really know how that would work out. And you'd also have the people who enjoy the protoss race cry over how their epic army gets beaten by Kerrigan. Obviously, but I am kind of a Protoss fan myself and I wouldn't expect the Protoss to defeat the entire Swarm on their own either. You can have them kill a Brood Mother, force Kerrigan to re-deploy her forces to face them, and generally have the attack disrupt her plans. There is a big difference between "the Golden Armada shows up and gets stomped", and "the Protoss do good damage before being forced to retreat at the end of 2-3 missions". The problem some people have with Protoss in Starcraft is not that they get defeated, it is more like they don't seem to ever be a threat. They come at the start of the level, get rolled over and die without being much more than a nuisance. The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Two things: First, The evolution missions are not filler. They're just not essential to the main plot. uh... you just said its not filler and then went on to describe their purpose by pretty much giving the dictionary definition of what "filler" is. Just pointing that out in your thought processes. They're as much "filler" as Abathur is filler. Neither are needed but both are used to expand the feel of the universe. Kerrigan keeps talking about how she *is* the swarm and how she can *feel* and *command* the swarm. When Kerrigan gets new broods into the swarm she uses her mental powers to tell them to take over such and such planet. And as you get new evolutions she leads them as well because she doesn't just give orders, she commands the entirety of the swarm. Its all part of the whole "one with the swarm" deal. Its not relevant to the plot, but its there to enhance it. Its supposed to make you feel like Kerrigan doesn't have tunnel vision and is only attacking this one planet or achieving just one goal at a time. She's commanding everything. The invasion of multiple planets as well as skirmishes in random worlds where her troops are also at. She might be standing on Zerus, but she's micromanaging 5-8 different campaigns across 4-6 different planets all while going D3 on Belial. Its pretty bad-ass, badly executed, but bad-ass. Which of course makes no sense at all because she was able to do all that and much more in Brood War's storyline. Nice justification. It isn't justification, it's what we are presented. She commands queens in space ships, she commands queens in other planets, she commands everything zerg and she grows more powerful she commands more and more zerg. This is not my interpretation, this is literally what is happening as you play the game. It is not a stretch that she is also controlling other zerg units in other planets as they are attacking installations and fortifications. Her influence can be overly micro-managey like she did in the protoss ship, or it can be broad like when she tells brood mothers to attack planets, or it can be a bit in between where she tells a pack of ______ to attack a small base like she does in the missions. Its bland, and boring, and to unobservant kids it can be hard to see, but it's literally what is happening in front of you. Its not my justification if its the empirical data presented. After the nth evolution mission it became filler, sorry.
No, after the nth evolution mission it became boring within the sense of the narrative.
Much like it got boring after the 2nd and 3rd time you had Kerrigan touch her forehead to tell queens to invade a planet.
Boring =/= filler
Boring = boring
Filter = filter
The evolution missions fulfilled a better way to present variant units, and a unique way of showcasing Kerrigans ability to multitask. It was also narratively bland and it was hard to get pumped up by it. You can only kill so many storm troopers before you realized that killing redshirts doesn't actually progress the story.
But it was not filler--it was a showcasing of Kerrigan's power and the breadth of her control of the swarm. Its as much filler as her spells are filler.
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Why do the Protoss apparently hate Zeratul now? He states this to Kerrigan on Zerus.
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Abathur is a main character in the zerg history of starcraft. He´s a missing link. His appereance firstly describes how zerg assimilation of other specis is working for the swarm. Directly analysis of DNS material per telepathy/feeding, near instant modification and adaption. You won´t find any source how assimilation of other species is working before HotS.
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On March 29 2013 03:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 02:31 Grumbels wrote:On March 29 2013 02:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 29 2013 01:35 sCCrooked wrote:On March 29 2013 01:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 11:52 sCCrooked wrote:On March 28 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:On March 28 2013 07:08 Telenil wrote:On March 28 2013 06:58 Gogo1 wrote: I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in your first paragraph. Are you suggesting that instead of having protoss on Kaldir, they should just have had some random creatures whose genetics Abathur could weave into the swarm? I wasn't very clear, but I was refering to evolution missions. There are some levels when you get new DNA, and Kerrigan says "hey, what about slaughtering these Protoss over there!" That's where Abathur could put Swarm creatures against each other instead. The evolution missions are filler, so it's tempting to see them as inconsequential to the main plot. I don't think any of these missions take place on recognizable worlds or are even referred to later on. Yet they very much happen and it constantly has Kerrigan telling her forces to kill a random group of terran or protoss that are off at some remote planet for the purposes of experimentation. I would say that Kerrigan is being evil in these cases. (I forgot if she ever attacks any protoss during the evolution missions, I didn't play all of them myself) I only start talking about Kaldir in the second paragraph. Also, having the Golden Armada attacking the Swarm may not have been such a bad idea, but wouldn't that leave the protoss basically defenseless? I don't know Starcraft lore in detail, so I don't really know how that would work out. And you'd also have the people who enjoy the protoss race cry over how their epic army gets beaten by Kerrigan. Obviously, but I am kind of a Protoss fan myself and I wouldn't expect the Protoss to defeat the entire Swarm on their own either. You can have them kill a Brood Mother, force Kerrigan to re-deploy her forces to face them, and generally have the attack disrupt her plans. There is a big difference between "the Golden Armada shows up and gets stomped", and "the Protoss do good damage before being forced to retreat at the end of 2-3 missions". The problem some people have with Protoss in Starcraft is not that they get defeated, it is more like they don't seem to ever be a threat. They come at the start of the level, get rolled over and die without being much more than a nuisance. The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Two things: First, The evolution missions are not filler. They're just not essential to the main plot. uh... you just said its not filler and then went on to describe their purpose by pretty much giving the dictionary definition of what "filler" is. Just pointing that out in your thought processes. They're as much "filler" as Abathur is filler. Neither are needed but both are used to expand the feel of the universe. Kerrigan keeps talking about how she *is* the swarm and how she can *feel* and *command* the swarm. When Kerrigan gets new broods into the swarm she uses her mental powers to tell them to take over such and such planet. And as you get new evolutions she leads them as well because she doesn't just give orders, she commands the entirety of the swarm. Its all part of the whole "one with the swarm" deal. Its not relevant to the plot, but its there to enhance it. Its supposed to make you feel like Kerrigan doesn't have tunnel vision and is only attacking this one planet or achieving just one goal at a time. She's commanding everything. The invasion of multiple planets as well as skirmishes in random worlds where her troops are also at. She might be standing on Zerus, but she's micromanaging 5-8 different campaigns across 4-6 different planets all while going D3 on Belial. Its pretty bad-ass, badly executed, but bad-ass. Which of course makes no sense at all because she was able to do all that and much more in Brood War's storyline. Nice justification. It isn't justification, it's what we are presented. She commands queens in space ships, she commands queens in other planets, she commands everything zerg and she grows more powerful she commands more and more zerg. This is not my interpretation, this is literally what is happening as you play the game. It is not a stretch that she is also controlling other zerg units in other planets as they are attacking installations and fortifications. Her influence can be overly micro-managey like she did in the protoss ship, or it can be broad like when she tells brood mothers to attack planets, or it can be a bit in between where she tells a pack of ______ to attack a small base like she does in the missions. Its bland, and boring, and to unobservant kids it can be hard to see, but it's literally what is happening in front of you. Its not my justification if its the empirical data presented. After the nth evolution mission it became filler, sorry. No, after the nth evolution mission it became boring within the sense of the narrative. Much like it got boring after the 2nd and 3rd time you had Kerrigan touch her forehead to tell queens to invade a planet. Boring =/= filler Boring = boring Filter = filter The evolution missions fulfilled a better way to present variant units, and a unique way of showcasing Kerrigans ability to multitask. It was also narratively bland and it was hard to get pumped up by it. You can only kill so many storm troopers before you realized that killing redshirts doesn't actually progress the story. But it was not filler--it was a showcasing of Kerrigan's power and the breadth of her control of the swarm. Its as much filler as her spells are filler. I don't think you understand the definition of filler, and in any case your insistence on having this purely semantic debate doesn't help anyone. Outside of the first evolution mission, which demonstrates the workings of the zerg evolution process, the rest don't advance the story at all; they don't show us anything interesting, they aren't referred to later on. This makes these missions filler, just ways to pass the time and pad the campaign, they could have all been removed without anyone noticing.
It's worse because the fact that she is sacrificing humans and protoss to experiment with her swarm should be relevant, because it makes her profoundly evil.
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On March 29 2013 03:29 jeeeeohn wrote: A Breakdown of Players' Qualms With The Story:
Players expected Jim to kill Kerrigan. Jim didn't kill Kerrigan.
Players expected SC2 to be well written, like BW. SC2 wasn't well written.
Players expected characters to make sense. Characters don't make sense.
Now, I fully agree with the above, but, overall, I enjoy the story. It's cheesy space opera, and that's all it will ever be, and all I appreciate it for.
+1 its almost like the pro wrestling story lines they have to come up with when 1 of the main wrestler guys quits and leaves for Japan....they come up with a fake knee injury or sometimes... he just becomes an "unperson" and is never talked about.
like the WWF tried to do with Kevin Nash and Scott Hall after they first left.
as soon as they greatly modified the appearance of Raynor in SC2:WoL you knew they would come up with whatever dumb excuses they could to change the storyline to suit whoever the new writers were for the SC2 trilogy.
i love the excuses/reasons they give for no more Vultures, or Firebats. All the Firebat suits are being used by Marauders now lol.
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Let´s all grab our torches and forks for the best storyline and game presentation of a RTS game out there. I demand rivers of blood and piles of skulls.
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On March 29 2013 04:44 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 03:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 29 2013 02:31 Grumbels wrote:On March 29 2013 02:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 29 2013 01:35 sCCrooked wrote:On March 29 2013 01:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 11:52 sCCrooked wrote:On March 28 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 Grumbels wrote:On March 28 2013 07:08 Telenil wrote: [quote]I wasn't very clear, but I was refering to evolution missions. There are some levels when you get new DNA, and Kerrigan says "hey, what about slaughtering these Protoss over there!" That's where Abathur could put Swarm creatures against each other instead. The evolution missions are filler, so it's tempting to see them as inconsequential to the main plot. I don't think any of these missions take place on recognizable worlds or are even referred to later on. Yet they very much happen and it constantly has Kerrigan telling her forces to kill a random group of terran or protoss that are off at some remote planet for the purposes of experimentation. I would say that Kerrigan is being evil in these cases. (I forgot if she ever attacks any protoss during the evolution missions, I didn't play all of them myself) I only start talking about Kaldir in the second paragraph. [quote]Obviously, but I am kind of a Protoss fan myself and I wouldn't expect the Protoss to defeat the entire Swarm on their own either. You can have them kill a Brood Mother, force Kerrigan to re-deploy her forces to face them, and generally have the attack disrupt her plans. There is a big difference between "the Golden Armada shows up and gets stomped", and "the Protoss do good damage before being forced to retreat at the end of 2-3 missions". The problem some people have with Protoss in Starcraft is not that they get defeated, it is more like they don't seem to ever be a threat. They come at the start of the level, get rolled over and die without being much more than a nuisance.
The only race that is allowed to win is the player's race. At the same time, over the course of the trilogy, all three races have to be equally awesome and victorious, hence the need for the recycled Archimonde attacks the world tree plot that is inevitably going to happen. It will allow all races to win. Two things: First, The evolution missions are not filler. They're just not essential to the main plot. uh... you just said its not filler and then went on to describe their purpose by pretty much giving the dictionary definition of what "filler" is. Just pointing that out in your thought processes. They're as much "filler" as Abathur is filler. Neither are needed but both are used to expand the feel of the universe. Kerrigan keeps talking about how she *is* the swarm and how she can *feel* and *command* the swarm. When Kerrigan gets new broods into the swarm she uses her mental powers to tell them to take over such and such planet. And as you get new evolutions she leads them as well because she doesn't just give orders, she commands the entirety of the swarm. Its all part of the whole "one with the swarm" deal. Its not relevant to the plot, but its there to enhance it. Its supposed to make you feel like Kerrigan doesn't have tunnel vision and is only attacking this one planet or achieving just one goal at a time. She's commanding everything. The invasion of multiple planets as well as skirmishes in random worlds where her troops are also at. She might be standing on Zerus, but she's micromanaging 5-8 different campaigns across 4-6 different planets all while going D3 on Belial. Its pretty bad-ass, badly executed, but bad-ass. Which of course makes no sense at all because she was able to do all that and much more in Brood War's storyline. Nice justification. It isn't justification, it's what we are presented. She commands queens in space ships, she commands queens in other planets, she commands everything zerg and she grows more powerful she commands more and more zerg. This is not my interpretation, this is literally what is happening as you play the game. It is not a stretch that she is also controlling other zerg units in other planets as they are attacking installations and fortifications. Her influence can be overly micro-managey like she did in the protoss ship, or it can be broad like when she tells brood mothers to attack planets, or it can be a bit in between where she tells a pack of ______ to attack a small base like she does in the missions. Its bland, and boring, and to unobservant kids it can be hard to see, but it's literally what is happening in front of you. Its not my justification if its the empirical data presented. After the nth evolution mission it became filler, sorry. No, after the nth evolution mission it became boring within the sense of the narrative. Much like it got boring after the 2nd and 3rd time you had Kerrigan touch her forehead to tell queens to invade a planet. Boring =/= filler Boring = boring Filter = filter The evolution missions fulfilled a better way to present variant units, and a unique way of showcasing Kerrigans ability to multitask. It was also narratively bland and it was hard to get pumped up by it. You can only kill so many storm troopers before you realized that killing redshirts doesn't actually progress the story. But it was not filler--it was a showcasing of Kerrigan's power and the breadth of her control of the swarm. Its as much filler as her spells are filler. I don't think you understand the definition of filler, and in any case your insistence on having this purely semantic debate doesn't help anyone. Outside of the first evolution mission, which demonstrates the workings of the zerg evolution process, the rest don't advance the story at all; they don't show us anything interesting, they aren't referred to later on. This makes these missions filler, just ways to pass the time and pad the campaign, they could have all been removed without anyone noticing. It's worse because the fact that she is sacrificing humans and protoss to experiment with her swarm should be relevant, because it makes her profoundly evil.
It technically does advance the story--for much the same reason "take over such and such planet faceless brood mother joining the swarm" advances the story.
It is Kerrigan's reach spreading across the stars, it is the campaign showing us that kerrigan was not just hanging out at zerus, that she is constantly and continually attacking multiple planets constantly, it is showing us that SHE IS THE FUCKING SWARM. Literally, it is the manifestation of the her never ending phrase of I AM THE SWARM.
The only thing it doesn't progress is the revenge narrative => which pretty much none of the other plot points really progress.
And how can you say that its not referred to later? The physical and literal shape and composition of the swarm is determined by this. In essence, the pixels on your screen that are killing other pixels on your screen look and act only how the evolution missions dictates how they act. More so than any other mission their effects are felt and seen literally affecting the world as the narrative progresses.
And it's not "evil" that she kills marines and protoss because NONE of the evolution missions are required. Abather literally walks up to you and offers you zerg evolution and you can either pick A, B, or None. Remember when she said "lets not do this to humans anymore" and Abather was like "sure, no prob" and then he walks up and is like "want to test these things, humans are around" and instead of saying no (like Kerrigan would have if you were roleplaying) the player says yes and kills humans.
The problem with the design was there was no benefit or consequence for picking neither, for telling abather to shut his pie hole and stop killing innocents. So we as the player feel forced to kill marines and zealots because we're literally gimping ourselves if we don't. Kerrigan was strong enough to say "hey dude, no more okay" but we as players have no reason to follow suite.
Its bad design, its boring design, but to call it filler just means that you didn't understand its part of the narrative. This isn't damn semantics, you're literally not using the word correctly because you literally don't understand what is happening. And no, it's not your fault that you don't understand, that's blizzard fault for having such piss poor execution.
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