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On March 01 2012 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 11:13 Toadesstern wrote:
well if you're a Vet who wanted to absorb a bullet we can put that to a test the next night cycle. If I recall correctly you voted for BH, didn't you? ❤
Not like mafia is going to put bullets into you unless something strange happens that makes you look incredible good anyways. I mean, unless I'm mistaking the mechanics of your role, you can only shoot into votes on lynched townies from the previous cycle...so I mean you can try I guess. I'm voting for you this cycle because I think you're a liar, and if you get lynched and you're telling the truth...well, you're not shooting anyone.
you think I'm the best lynch right now? Seriously? Nothing you got to say about Rol? About WBG?
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I've already given you my thoughts on WBG. RoL is...up in the air for me right now. I could feasibly get behind a RoL lynch if he doesn't do anything other than continually insult town for not lynching him. But his reaction seems genuine and I don't like him as a lynch for now. We'll see what kind of contribution he can muster between now and deadline.
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On March 01 2012 11:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've already given you my thoughts on WBG. RoL is...up in the air for me right now. I could feasibly get behind a RoL lynch if he doesn't do anything other than continually insult town for not lynching him. But his reaction seems genuine and I don't like him as a lynch for now. We'll see what kind of contribution he can muster between now and deadline.
Hey! I exposed toads logically inconsistent argument!
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On March 01 2012 11:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 11:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've already given you my thoughts on WBG. RoL is...up in the air for me right now. I could feasibly get behind a RoL lynch if he doesn't do anything other than continually insult town for not lynching him. But his reaction seems genuine and I don't like him as a lynch for now. We'll see what kind of contribution he can muster between now and deadline. Hey! I exposed toads logically inconsistent argument!
Well, technically you and DocH did that. Anyway, does his logically inconsistent argument make him scum? And are you going to vote for him? If no or no, then you still haven't done much bro. 
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On March 01 2012 12:01 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 11:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2012 11:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've already given you my thoughts on WBG. RoL is...up in the air for me right now. I could feasibly get behind a RoL lynch if he doesn't do anything other than continually insult town for not lynching him. But his reaction seems genuine and I don't like him as a lynch for now. We'll see what kind of contribution he can muster between now and deadline. Hey! I exposed toads logically inconsistent argument! Well, technically you and DocH did that. Anyway, does his logically inconsistent argument make him scum? And are you going to vote for him? If no or no, then you still haven't done much bro.
I skimmed his posts, never read/analyzed his whole filter. The argument seemed weird and like an excuse to not kill wherebugsgo but still call him scummy, which is... awkward?
I didn't really do that, unless you are referring to me speculating that redff was scum which I would contend is very different.
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Do you still think that red was scum RoL?
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On March 01 2012 12:03 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:01 VisceraEyes wrote:On March 01 2012 11:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2012 11:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've already given you my thoughts on WBG. RoL is...up in the air for me right now. I could feasibly get behind a RoL lynch if he doesn't do anything other than continually insult town for not lynching him. But his reaction seems genuine and I don't like him as a lynch for now. We'll see what kind of contribution he can muster between now and deadline. Hey! I exposed toads logically inconsistent argument! Well, technically you and DocH did that. Anyway, does his logically inconsistent argument make him scum? And are you going to vote for him? If no or no, then you still haven't done much bro. I skimmed his posts, never read/analyzed his whole filter. The argument seemed weird and like an excuse to not kill wherebugsgo but still call him scummy, which is... awkward? I didn't really do that, unless you are referring to me speculating that redff was scum which I would contend is very different.
what? wbg's dies after you two. I never defended wbg and straight up said I think he's mafia multiple times.
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On March 01 2012 07:16 Toadesstern wrote:If you're suggesting we're lynching VE instead I'm all up for that as well. Either you're mafia and not stupid enough to make a 3/3 townie list or you are against my better judgement indee townie and we should trust you => we should lynch into your list. Since prpl already flipped green and I know my own alignment that leaves us with VE
just to get this straight. To me this reads as:
VE and RoL are both equally good lynches or at least almost equally good lynches and we need to lynch either of those two today [that was the first sentece + context of the my posts before that]
Now if you're a little townie and you're concerned about a VE-lynch because you think WBG might be a townie himself, fear not, because WBG's alignment is not a problem for a VE-lynch.
No matter WBG's alignment he would suggest a VE-lynch. If he's mafia to mix up his lists and as a townie to catch scum.
Therefore WBG's alignment is of no matter when deciding whether or not to lynch VE.
I tried to make it sound fancy this time, did it work? :3
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On March 01 2012 12:01 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 11:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2012 11:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've already given you my thoughts on WBG. RoL is...up in the air for me right now. I could feasibly get behind a RoL lynch if he doesn't do anything other than continually insult town for not lynching him. But his reaction seems genuine and I don't like him as a lynch for now. We'll see what kind of contribution he can muster between now and deadline. Hey! I exposed toads logically inconsistent argument! Well, technically you and DocH did that. Anyway, does his logically inconsistent argument make him scum? And are you going to vote for him? If no or no, then you still haven't done much bro.
I never commented on his argument, I asked him to clarify it. didn't feel the need to comment it because it is bad enough to speak for itself
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On March 01 2012 12:43 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 07:16 Toadesstern wrote:On March 01 2012 07:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
or roleblock you, for that matter If you're suggesting we're lynching VE instead I'm all up for that as well. Either you're mafia and not stupid enough to make a 3/3 townie list or you are against my better judgement indee townie and we should trust you => we should lynch into your list. Since prpl already flipped green and I know my own alignment that leaves us with VE just to get this straight. To me this reads as:VE and RoL are both equally good lynches or at least almost equally good lynches and we need to lynch either of those two today [that was the first sentece + context of the my posts before that]Now if you're a little townie and you're concerned about a VE-lynch because you think WBG might be a townie himself, fear not, because WBG's alignment is not a problem for a VE-lynch. No matter WBG's alignment he would suggest a VE-lynch. If he's mafia to mix up his lists and as a townie to catch scum. Therefore WBG's alignment is of no matter when deciding whether or not to lynch VE. I tried to make it sound fancy this time, did it work? :3
You specifically were saying that WBG's list was the way you were justifying killing VE. Since scum would not likely make an entirely town list. Now you are dismissing that, even though it was the initial premise of your first argument to kill VE.
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On March 01 2012 12:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
Do you still think that red was scum RoL?
To be honest, once again I haven't kept up with the thread enough to be definitive or really know what drh has done since Day 2 as far as indepth analysis goes, but the way I read that scenario was that 1. RedFF was scummy Day 1, we killed him. 2. I saw DrH seemingly soft defending RedFF while trying to appear not to. For those who are more knowledgeable of what has exactly gone on I would predict that DrH would have a significant presence in the last couple of miss lynches if he was scum. So if you have observed that you could infer helvetica is scummy. But that is one thing, I wouldn't solely look at that one incident for a day 4 lynch, for day 2 I found that adequate enough to warrant a push and pressure which was largely ignored.
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On March 01 2012 14:10 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 12:43 Toadesstern wrote:On March 01 2012 07:16 Toadesstern wrote:On March 01 2012 07:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
or roleblock you, for that matter If you're suggesting we're lynching VE instead I'm all up for that as well. Either you're mafia and not stupid enough to make a 3/3 townie list or you are against my better judgement indee townie and we should trust you => we should lynch into your list. Since prpl already flipped green and I know my own alignment that leaves us with VE just to get this straight. To me this reads as:VE and RoL are both equally good lynches or at least almost equally good lynches and we need to lynch either of those two today [that was the first sentece + context of the my posts before that]Now if you're a little townie and you're concerned about a VE-lynch because you think WBG might be a townie himself, fear not, because WBG's alignment is not a problem for a VE-lynch. No matter WBG's alignment he would suggest a VE-lynch. If he's mafia to mix up his lists and as a townie to catch scum. Therefore WBG's alignment is of no matter when deciding whether or not to lynch VE. I tried to make it sound fancy this time, did it work? :3 You specifically were saying that WBG's list was the way you were justifying killing VE. Since scum would not likely make an entirely town list. Now you are dismissing that, even though it was the initial premise of your first argument to kill VE.
no I did not. I said that that list is no problem for us because wbg is not afraid to list mafias to mix things up and screw with peoples radars and if he's a townie that shouldn't be an issue at all.
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You said it's what confirms VE you're backpedaling so much and it's not the first time either
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Do you really think mafia RB's Toadesstern over VE? If VE softclaimed vig twice why not hit him instead? It's WIFOM I suppose but I have a hard time thinking if Toades' claim is legitimate that either of his targets would survive, it's highly unlikely he'd be roleblocked twice especially considering that he was such an easy mislynch
Scum medic seems like a bit much but I'm not gonna make assumptions. I'm second guessing myself way too much and I feel best about Dirkzor so I will be voting for him. I encourage everyone else to do the same. I will repost my old case on him and update it later when I am not so tired.
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Dirkzor
RoL seems fine to lynch but a bit to easy.
Unlike BH?
On February 22 2012 06:01 Dirkzor wrote:
@Chaoser now you're just argueing semantics...
I called what Kita did double sided. I called what you did flip floppy. Basicly the same thing.
And how can you compare my posts that was done 5-15 in into the game with someone made 12 hours later?
You say that I don't take side. That is correct because I found both sides stupid and none of them particularly more scummy then then other.
You called what chaoser did lying. Read the post before this one in Dirkzor's filter:
On February 22 2012 05:56 Dirkzor wrote:I want to continue on Toad's case on Chaoser. Because Chaoser is lying! Read the whole case and chaoser defence here. Below is the end of that post. Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 04:48 chaoser wrote:Yeah I agree with you and kita that redFF looked weird but that swap was so out of the blue. One moment he's supporting red and his policy lynch and the next moment it's on redFF? Once again, not a random swap, once I acknowledged that I misread VE and DrH's posts, I realized VE is 100% correct in not only calling out redFF but also saw that redFF was misrepresenting facts (one of the reasons why I misread/switched VE and DrH's post) Add in his bullshit defense and the vote was justified. So it was AFTER you realized you had misread that you changed your vote? Not quite. + Show Spoiler +On February 21 2012 08:56 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 21 2012 08:29 chaoser wrote:On February 21 2012 08:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 21 2012 08:19 redFF wrote:
PEOPLE
PEOPLE
PEOPLE
The game has been going on for an hour, my suggestion of a policy lynch does not mean I don't want anyone to scumhunt. It's an excellent way to generate discussion, which it has.
VE's post is hypocritical because he's calling me scum for pushing a policy lynch when he himself was pushing a policy lynch up until that post, when it arbitrarily became a scum lynch. Consider him my first moderately scummy read. You're better than this. He never ever said your PL position was bad, but that you are spammy. Please read posts before you start OMGUSing. Considering you have time to spam you should have time to read. And you need to read better. red is saying VE's vote on him was him pushing for a policy lynch while at the same time he is criticizing him for pushing a policy lynch on tyrran. Re: Spammy RedFF
Never fails to live up to expectations. Red you really don't have to comment on every little thing with a 1-liner response. My PL on you stands until I get a scum-read on someone. That is a big problem. Care to respond VE? No, it's not a problem. I disagree with the policy lynch in general but I really don't see how VE is contradicting himself at all. Supporting a policy lynch does not mean you can't be critical of RedFF posting a lot of one liners and talking about it/defending it so vehemently. He isn't accusing of redFF for being scum for supporting a PL anyway, or even for "pushing" it. He never said those words. It's an invented case. I'm voting for red. VE said he was voting for red as a policy lynch. He then criticizes red, not for his one liners, but by saying: Show nested quote +Putting votes on inactive townies/policy lynches generates almost no real pressure on a player over whether or not they are scum but only creates arguments over whether or not a policy lynch is justified. That is a direct criticism of red's policy lynch push on tyrran. Show nested quote +He isn't accusing of redFF for being scum for supporting a PL anyway, or even for "pushing" it. He never said those words. It's an invented case. I never said that he accused redFF of being scum for supporting a PL, I'm only saying that he's criticizing redFF of doing something that he himself did as well (Putting votes on a policy lynch). That point is factual. At the same time, I understand the nuanced subtle difference between the two given VE's immediate switch from policy lynch to scum-read. That's just good pressure play. Either way, I want to clarify what actually happened so as to not misrepresent the situation. Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 08:40 redFF wrote:
Nothing I've done is scummy and this is not going to get off the ground so enjoy your lonely wagon ve and drh. lol, this is scummy as fuck. ##vote: redFF In that post you are still arguing with VE/DrH about whether or not VE was being a hypocrite or not. Also in that post you vote for RedFF. Next post: Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 09:05 chaoser wrote:
Also, your unvote of tyrran was pretty bad redFF and seemed extremely defensive. His post wasn't a good enough post to un-pressure vote. I would never get off him from my vote because his post was NOT good. You seems to have changed your mind about RedFF here. Next: Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 09:08 chaoser wrote:On February 21 2012 09:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why are you lumping up DocH's posts with mine? I didn't criticize red for his vote on Tyrran at all. Come on chaoser... Oh lol, my bad. I went back to check and indeed you did not say that. My fault. sorry lol This is were you realize something is wrong and you quoted the wrong dude. Some few post later: Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 10:33 chaoser wrote:On February 21 2012 09:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ho boy, the thread died fast. That worries me a little, but that could just be paranoia.
chaoser - so by your correction and apology, should I assume that you're no longer agreeing with red's assessment that I'm being a hypocrite?
kitaman27 - what are your thoughts on chaoser?
Jackal, BC, syllo, WBG, you guys care to weigh in on this? I mean, it's early but I'd have expected to hear what an idiot I am at least twice between those 4 players.
yes. i take it back, i misread. I dunno why WBG is buddying me though. I think I'm playing decently well though, but I think you're doing better (aka I think you're townine ATM). Now that the mixup have been cleared VE is suddenly a player doing good. While I admit that its not a huge issue I don't understand why you would lie about it? Why not just "I thought VE was being a hypocrite but then RedFF's posting turned to shit so I voted him. Later i realized I was wrong and VE was right."
You didn't call him flip flopping. You used a strong word, lying, then backed off later. I don't see what is scummy about Chaoser misreading something and then making a posting mistake because of it. That seems more town to me than anything unless he is doing some incredibly complicated roleplay where he pretends to be unaware of what's going on and play badly. I've known Chaoser to be inactive and absentminded as town before so I'm not really shocked or upset by this, I don't think anyone really should be.
Dirkzor spent the remainder of his filter tunneling BH, who is probably the easiest lynch I've ever seen. He's acting like a really bad village idiot or some kind of serial killer who is just trolling to draw people out. He is definitely worth a DT or a Vig. Dirk can tunnel BH as hard as he wants and whatever BH flips doesn't matter. If he flips town everyone will agree that BH was playing really bad and would have gotten lynched or shot anyway. If he flips scum then Dirk gets some town cred. If he flips third party of some sort then Dirk gets a little bit of town cred. He can say "I was close, at least we got the SK out of the way now, it could have been worse it could have been town".
Dirkzor plays very wishy washy and conservative until Kitaman27 calls him out for it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505&user=193595
The posts in this filter in which he is a town blue come across as far more natural, reactive, and there is clear progress in his thoughts. He doesn't ignore anybody and is pretty talkative. His posts in the Storm Mafia filter come across to me as more jilted and planned? I'm surprised he didn't call BH out on his behavior a bit before, he seems like the kind of player to try and foster a good pro-town atmosphere which he hasn't done in this game at all.
Read Kitaman27's post on him for more analysis of his early game behavior:
On February 22 2012 12:23 kitaman27 wrote:Dang it, I'm a sucker for blue claims. Funny to see the votes pile up on red after the claim, rather than before. On one hand, a mafia player who is set to die should always be claiming blue, but on the other, his claim ties up a potential roleblocker. Tracker is a tricky claim because even confirming it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't a mafia stalker or something. I'll be keeping my vote on him for the moment. Now to everyone else: I've enjoyed comedy hour with Jackal, but his filter is completely void of content. Not a single post showing he isn't just along for the ride. Toad appears to be going through post-Arkham depression or something. A lot of fluff and he isn't very willing to share his reads. Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 11:14 prplhz wrote:
Okay I don't think that redFF is scum because he's been pretty out there. The scummiest he has done in my opinion is his claim which was oddly timed. Right now he's a terribly easy lynch, because we'll have to lynch him at some point. I'd like to see wherebugsgo explain how everything redFF has done can be explained by scum motivation and can not be explained by town motivation. The worst thing about this whole redFF thing is that the lynch is so easy that everybody can just pile onto him and then the day is kinda ruined, we aren't going to find anybody else. I don't think that redFF is scum because he's just been putting himself too much in the line of fire. Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 11:14 prplhz wrote:
I'll vote redFF to avoid no lynch. I kinda assume that this is an extended majority lynch where we can end up in a no lynch sitaution, but the OP doesn't really say anything about that. But like, redFF probably isn't scum, come on. There's also plenty good in having him around since scum can't role block anybody else no matter redFF's alignment. The lynch today comes down to "We very likely have to lynch redFF at some point, should it be today or do we have something better?". Right now, I think it's too early to say. These two statements by prpl completely contradict each other. You argue how you don't think red is scum, but you're willing to vote him to avoid no lynch? How does that make sense? If you're going to argue that he really is blue, then of course a no lynch would be more beneficial. How about push a different lynch if red isn't your priority? This is really poor from him. I know I already picked on Dirkzor for his language, but I'm going to do it again. Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 07:03 Dirkzor wrote:
The positive part is that I already have something to critisize... Good job on starting discussion.
"Hey guys. Look at me and my protown attitude!" Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:39 Dirkzor wrote:
I'll give my honest opinion so far... Only scum say this. Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 05:03 Dirkzor wrote:
Wat? I'm glad you have that big confidence in my ability as town but I can't magicly make me notice scum... I notice what I notice when I notice it. And when I do I post it. So far this game I got jack. Lack of aggression and confidence.
These are fair points. I wish Kitaman was more active but I don't remember him having a strong presence in the last game where he was town. I agree with the things he is saying here, this is the sort of thing I'm used to seeing from RoL.
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VisceraEyes is probably the vet if he is town. VE if you're the vet it's probably best for the town that you claim it now. I would assume you were shot or RB'd already because of your claims if you are indeed town.
A town counterclaim would put a lot of pressure on VE as scum especially if there are different specifics to the role that a scum fake claiming Vet would not be aware of. If VE is not the vet, his ploy makes little sense because as town you should fear getting shot too much to try to draw roleblocks, especially in a closed setup.
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On February 27 2012 08:10 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 07:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 27 2012 07:47 Dirkzor wrote:On February 27 2012 07:30 Toadesstern wrote:On February 27 2012 07:23 layabout wrote:
Toad, how could he answer your question?
he's not supposed to. It was rhetorical and I'm just saying it looks really strange that we have not a single suspicious guy flipping because of vigs. At least both syllo and Jackal look like mafia work. I disagree: Jackal could very well have been a Town vig... Jackal is hard to read and he havent really been Mr. Helpful. If a vig hit Jackal I think they might as well claim so Agree. My point was basicly that I can't find a reason for scum to shoot jackal so I think it was a town hit.
Forgot about this post. Dirk is very likely not scum. I was trying to draw out mafia to fakeclaim vigilante. If Dirk is scum, he would know that it was mafia work and encouraging the vig to come out makes no sense because he knows it isn't the vig that hit him. It's not a good idea for the vig to claim it though which is iffy. I don't see scum sheeping a town in this particular manner, if I'm a DT i'll check Dirkzor tonight just to be safe but after coming across this in the filter I'm laying off.
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On March 01 2012 15:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
You said it's what confirms VE you're backpedaling so much and it's not the first time either
no I said it's another one of the facts that should make you feel okay to lynch him. When you guys asked why VE, I told you to read my and Laya's filter. THAT'S the reason VE is, besides RoL, the best possible lynch right now.
I never said that little phrase was anything important, I just found it important to add that WBG's alignment is not a matter of wether we should lynch VE or not.
The reason VE is a good lynch, and I said it exactly that way is the fact that we got about 5 pages of filter about him in layas and my filter (although 5 pages is probably an exaggeration, more like 2?) and that everything mentioned about him still holds and that I'm not going to quote everything we mentioned about him so far again because you can simply read up the things I mentioned on d1, d2 and d3 + whenever Laya did his 2 (?) cases on VE. THAT's the reason VE is a lynchoption right now and THAT's what I said when you asked me about it so please stop pretending that little phrase I added to show that it's completly independent from WBG's alignment although he added VE on one of his lists-of-death is the only thing I said about VE or the reason I want VE to hang. Seriously it's like I'm talking to a wall and people only remember what happened the last 8-or-so hours because clearly everything else seems to be forgotten.
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I think we should lynch VisceraEyes today. If VE flips town, focus all nighttime KP on WBG or layabout.
WBG claims he was protected by Syllo night 1. If VE is scum he could have hit WBG and supported his claim. This seems likely to me, it's a strategy I would have been alright with as scum or even tried myself.
Repost:
VisceraEyes
The most obvious choice imo.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=117978
I looked far back to find a game with VE as town and did. Responsibility Mafia. I noticed something that immediately stuck out to me as a scum player trying to imitate his own town meta.
In RM VisceraEyes makes catchy posts when he calls out a scum. He will bold/color his posts, say it's some kind of special list, etc.
In RM he is focused. He calls out one scum and backs his case up. It's not a fluff post. It's not a summary. This town VE doesn't bother with that kind of stuff. Scum VE in Arkham City posts similar lists, but instead of filling it with substance and focus he does this:
On February 10 2012 07:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
VisceraEyes Lynch List of Correctitude v2.0
Liquid`Sheth - His return to the thread from the busy days past has been less than impressive, to say the very least. He's only interested in saving his own life, not in finding and eliminating threats to town. As such, it pleases me greatly to see that he's (at least for now) our choice for lynch.
Opz - A lurker - and a site-veteran lurker. He's on Jackal's list of phone-network buddies, but I haven't seen much in the way of finding scum from Opz. Every passing hour that he hasn't done shit in the thread is another reason we should hang this guy.
hiro protagonist - This one's silence has now reached a deafening cacophony of scumminess to me. He's not looking for scum...or if he is, he's not sharing with the class. This one is tomorrow's lynch if he lives through the night (I hope he doesn't.)
Kurumi - WBG entered today with an INSTANTANEOUS vote for Kurumi. Now, he hasn't claimed any kind of DT role or anything, but being a semi veteran of the site and a decent player, that's not surprising. But it's the kind of behavior I'd expect from a DT with a red check. I'll be looking into Kurumi in much greater detail, but for now he's on my lynch-list.
VisceraEyes Watch-List of Vigilance
Katina - Downgraded from my lynch-list for being constantly on my Sheth lynch unwaveringly. If she were a scumbuddy, I'd have expected at least a little resistance yesterday when I was pushing or at the very least today. However, something about her screams 'doing-bare-minimum-to-avoid-lynch'. I'm watching Katina like a hawk.
Palmar - Again, unwaveringly on my Sheth lynch. Palmar has the honor of being the village idiot this game however, and that's not the kind of behavior I'm used to seeing from townPalmar post-D1. I have no idea what kind of game Palmar is playing, but I'm watching Palmar like a hawk. I actually hope he keeps trolling and we lynch him...but I'm not sold on him being scum. Third however? Dunno....EVER VIGILANT!!!!
A long list of players with basic summaries of what may or may not make them suspicious is fucking USELESS. It's not a case, it doesn't start a bandwagon, it doesn't get you anywhere closer to lynching scum, it shows a lack of effort in picking one and making a convincing argument (because you can't) it shows a lack of focus and it seems to me you are just trying to imitate a similar style of play. But the substance is different.
He argues with redFF but doesn't make a post summizing his case, making his points clearly in one spot. Instead he chooses to fill those "list" or whatever posts with more useless filler.
On February 22 2012 18:56 VisceraEyes wrote:VisceraEyes Lynch List of Storm's EndBloodyC0bbler - My complaints echo the complaints of players such as DocH and Syllogism...he's had plenty of opportunity to come look for scum - he hasn't. He placed a vote on redFF without saying whether he thought he was scum or not. I was less than satisfied with his responses to my posts, and I've been unimpressed with his effort so far in the game. I voted for this guy in L, and while I was herpin and a derpin, he was finding scum and establishing his innocence. wherebugsgo - WBG has similarly not been interested in finding scum. He called chaoser scum lightly at the beginning of the day, but it looked more like an excuse to get into a conversation with him than anything. This is directly after he just got done buddying him in his introduction post.  Followed up with calling redFF bad ad nauseum. Very clear to not say scum - only very bad. Suddenly this all changes after red sheeps after Jackal? Sheeping is something scum and town do in equal parts - verily, many a veteran townies count on a few sheep to push their agendas. Claims that most of what red has done can be explained 'with scum motivations'. Fails to elaborate or support this idea. Just throws it out there. RebirthOfLegenD - my weakest read - I'm really only interested in showing RoL rope if he doesn't start looking for scum. This redFF wagon essentially pushed itself, and he's making it his MISSION to make it happen. I don't even know if RoL thinks red is scum or not. But it's pretty clear that he wants red to die. TODAY. I can support a lynch of any of these three players, my preference is WBG, followed by BC, with RoL being my least favorite choice.
Useless summary. A lynch list is retarded it just makes you look like town. You can really just sum up other peoples arguments too, reword them a little, boom you look like you're helping.
On February 22 2012 14:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
DocH I'm intrigued by your ideas and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
You don't need to announce that you agree with me if you're town. Just expand on my ideas or push them too.
On February 23 2012 12:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not.
X(
Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough....
You seem uncertain and wishy washy about BC but at the same time very very upset he wasn't lynched? Why is that? If you're town you only have reason to be disappointed that he wasn't lynched if you are pretty proof-positive he is scum, especially with a player of BC's potential.
The early game behavior I'm not too awfully alarmed by other than your friendly attitude. You are giving out compliments and buddying up with people a lot which isn't something I see a lot of town players take the effort to do. Doubtlessly, you've learned a bit from Arkham City. However, the early game behavior doesn't jump off the page as helpful pro-town shit either and your behavior after the flip is very concerning: very defensive and overreacting to the situation.
I really doubt I'm 3/3 here but I try not to think too much about the scum team as I do about individual scum. When I think about the scum team I worry too much about if they would bus, are arguments fake, etc. etc. etc. and I go insane. It's much easier to just analyze people as individuals and determine whether or not I find them to be scummy.
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To add: since this case, VE has yet to my knowledge to make posts in-line with his town meta. If you read his Responsibility Mafia just the way posts are styled and phrased is much different. He makes less posts and his posts are longer, he's less reactive. The way he keeps announcing "I"m gonna do this analysis it's soooo good just wait" is pretty silly. Town would just post the analysis. Scum would post it in the QT and work on it and once everyone has input they post it.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 15:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote:I think we should lynch VisceraEyes today. If VE flips town, focus all nighttime KP on WBG or layabout. WBG claims he was protected by Syllo night 1. If VE is scum he could have hit WBG and supported his claim. This seems likely to me, it's a strategy I would have been alright with as scum or even tried myself. Repost: Show nested quote +VisceraEyes The most obvious choice imo. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=117978I looked far back to find a game with VE as town and did. Responsibility Mafia. I noticed something that immediately stuck out to me as a scum player trying to imitate his own town meta. In RM VisceraEyes makes catchy posts when he calls out a scum. He will bold/color his posts, say it's some kind of special list, etc. In RM he is focused. He calls out one scum and backs his case up. It's not a fluff post. It's not a summary. This town VE doesn't bother with that kind of stuff. Scum VE in Arkham City posts similar lists, but instead of filling it with substance and focus he does this: On February 10 2012 07:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
VisceraEyes Lynch List of Correctitude v2.0
Liquid`Sheth - His return to the thread from the busy days past has been less than impressive, to say the very least. He's only interested in saving his own life, not in finding and eliminating threats to town. As such, it pleases me greatly to see that he's (at least for now) our choice for lynch.
Opz - A lurker - and a site-veteran lurker. He's on Jackal's list of phone-network buddies, but I haven't seen much in the way of finding scum from Opz. Every passing hour that he hasn't done shit in the thread is another reason we should hang this guy.
hiro protagonist - This one's silence has now reached a deafening cacophony of scumminess to me. He's not looking for scum...or if he is, he's not sharing with the class. This one is tomorrow's lynch if he lives through the night (I hope he doesn't.)
Kurumi - WBG entered today with an INSTANTANEOUS vote for Kurumi. Now, he hasn't claimed any kind of DT role or anything, but being a semi veteran of the site and a decent player, that's not surprising. But it's the kind of behavior I'd expect from a DT with a red check. I'll be looking into Kurumi in much greater detail, but for now he's on my lynch-list.
VisceraEyes Watch-List of Vigilance
Katina - Downgraded from my lynch-list for being constantly on my Sheth lynch unwaveringly. If she were a scumbuddy, I'd have expected at least a little resistance yesterday when I was pushing or at the very least today. However, something about her screams 'doing-bare-minimum-to-avoid-lynch'. I'm watching Katina like a hawk.
Palmar - Again, unwaveringly on my Sheth lynch. Palmar has the honor of being the village idiot this game however, and that's not the kind of behavior I'm used to seeing from townPalmar post-D1. I have no idea what kind of game Palmar is playing, but I'm watching Palmar like a hawk. I actually hope he keeps trolling and we lynch him...but I'm not sold on him being scum. Third however? Dunno....EVER VIGILANT!!!! A long list of players with basic summaries of what may or may not make them suspicious is fucking USELESS. It's not a case, it doesn't start a bandwagon, it doesn't get you anywhere closer to lynching scum, it shows a lack of effort in picking one and making a convincing argument (because you can't) it shows a lack of focus and it seems to me you are just trying to imitate a similar style of play. But the substance is different. He argues with redFF but doesn't make a post summizing his case, making his points clearly in one spot. Instead he chooses to fill those "list" or whatever posts with more useless filler. On February 22 2012 18:56 VisceraEyes wrote:VisceraEyes Lynch List of Storm's EndBloodyC0bbler - My complaints echo the complaints of players such as DocH and Syllogism...he's had plenty of opportunity to come look for scum - he hasn't. He placed a vote on redFF without saying whether he thought he was scum or not. I was less than satisfied with his responses to my posts, and I've been unimpressed with his effort so far in the game. I voted for this guy in L, and while I was herpin and a derpin, he was finding scum and establishing his innocence. wherebugsgo - WBG has similarly not been interested in finding scum. He called chaoser scum lightly at the beginning of the day, but it looked more like an excuse to get into a conversation with him than anything. This is directly after he just got done buddying him in his introduction post. Followed up with calling redFF bad ad nauseum. Very clear to not say scum - only very bad. Suddenly this all changes after red sheeps after Jackal? Sheeping is something scum and town do in equal parts - verily, many a veteran townies count on a few sheep to push their agendas. Claims that most of what red has done can be explained 'with scum motivations'. Fails to elaborate or support this idea. Just throws it out there. RebirthOfLegenD - my weakest read - I'm really only interested in showing RoL rope if he doesn't start looking for scum. This redFF wagon essentially pushed itself, and he's making it his MISSION to make it happen. I don't even know if RoL thinks red is scum or not. But it's pretty clear that he wants red to die. TODAY. I can support a lynch of any of these three players, my preference is WBG, followed by BC, with RoL being my least favorite choice. Useless summary. A lynch list is retarded it just makes you look like town. You can really just sum up other peoples arguments too, reword them a little, boom you look like you're helping. On February 22 2012 14:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
DocH I'm intrigued by your ideas and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. You don't need to announce that you agree with me if you're town. Just expand on my ideas or push them too. On February 23 2012 12:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not.
X(
Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough.... You seem uncertain and wishy washy about BC but at the same time very very upset he wasn't lynched? Why is that? If you're town you only have reason to be disappointed that he wasn't lynched if you are pretty proof-positive he is scum, especially with a player of BC's potential. The early game behavior I'm not too awfully alarmed by other than your friendly attitude. You are giving out compliments and buddying up with people a lot which isn't something I see a lot of town players take the effort to do. Doubtlessly, you've learned a bit from Arkham City. However, the early game behavior doesn't jump off the page as helpful pro-town shit either and your behavior after the flip is very concerning: very defensive and overreacting to the situation. I really doubt I'm 3/3 here but I try not to think too much about the scum team as I do about individual scum. When I think about the scum team I worry too much about if they would bus, are arguments fake, etc. etc. etc. and I go insane. It's much easier to just analyze people as individuals and determine whether or not I find them to be scummy. To add: since this case, VE has yet to my knowledge to make posts in-line with his town meta. If you read his Responsibility Mafia just the way posts are styled and phrased is much different. He makes less posts and his posts are longer, he's less reactive. The way he keeps announcing "I"m gonna do this analysis it's soooo good just wait" is pretty silly. Town would just post the analysis. Scum would post it in the QT and work on it and once everyone has input they post it.
EBWOP, put in spoilers to conserve space on the page
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Oh and DocH since you brought it up again that I might be roleblocked twice. I shot yesterday and I failed (myself) the night before that resulting in not shooting. So mafia did not need to roleblock me twice, once would have been enough. I merely mentioned it to make you guys understand what happened and why I posted that one:
On February 27 2012 07:09 Toadesstern wrote:
RoL buddy, why you still alive?
I asked RoL after that nightpost why he's still alive becaue I thought I shot, turned out I did not and I had to make a freaky explanation why I said that
+ Show Spoiler +On February 27 2012 07:09 Toadesstern wrote:
RoL buddy, why you still alive? On February 27 2012 07:23 layabout wrote:
Toad, how could he answer your question?
On February 27 2012 07:30 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 07:23 layabout wrote:
Toad, how could he answer your question?
he's not supposed to. It was rhetorical and I'm just saying it looks really strange that we have not a single suspicious guy flipping because of vigs. At least both syllo and Jackal look like mafia work.
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EPT
