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On December 08 2011 06:34 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:08 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 06:06 Tunkeg wrote:On December 08 2011 05:53 ey215 wrote:
Alright, did some reading while eating.
Here seems to be the brunt of the xscsc/Tunkeg dilemma. Tunkeg, even in his initial read that he mildly flipped on on xsc sounded like he had some suspicions. After a change in his read, xsc lost it on him and they bickered causing Tunkeg to tunnel in further. Tunkeg even admits in a post today that his case was "thin".
I honestly think that this is the case of two potential townies going after each other. From everything I read, xsc's case on Tunkeg was very weak and again tunkeg called his own case "thin".
Something I did find odd is they both argued against the BByte lynch and yet still ended up voting for him.
Here's my read: Tunkeg Town
xsc: null.
I'm not convinced that xsc is scum, and would like to see his replacement do some posting so we can go from there and I do feel that Tunkeg has been doing what is in the best interest of the town up to this point. I'd have a hard time voting for either at the moment. Just FYI I didn't say my case was thin, I said many thought my case was thin. Just wanted to clearify that. On December 07 2011 21:53 Tunkeg wrote:
Just read up on this during lunch, and while just reading through it really fast I have to say that the case you guys are building on jay, and the reasoning behind it is thin. 3 votes allready? Was it the the kill on EB that changed your mind?Many thought my case on xsksc was thin, but this is thinner, and it allready have 3 votes.
My apologies, I misread that statement. So you still stand behind his replacement as very likely mafia? Ah, you are putting me on the spot here now. I would say he is the one I have the most scum read and scum feel about. Very likely is pushing it a bit far though. But he is definately the one I would go for atm.
That beeing said, I find it hard to push the case further now that he have been replaced, and the replacement haven't written anything. Therefor I am keeping an open mind about other players, and since there is 3 scums I will be open for other suggestions as well, as long as I think there is a case there.
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On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something
You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town.
Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar.
You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself.
You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job.
On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote:
I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight.
I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything.
What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily...
Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion.
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On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Show nested quote +Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself. You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job. Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote:
I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything. What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily... Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion.
Hmm, did you come to that conclusion on EB on your own? To me it looks so thought through that one would think you have discussed it with someone.
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I've discussed it with my coach (he even made a guess as to who EB actually is) but the opinions expressed are my own.
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On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Right, so next time I'll just vote and keep my mouth shut. My bad, that really helps town doesn't it?Show nested quote +Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself. You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job. Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote:
I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything. What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily... Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion.
So basically, we should disregard all information that we've potentially gained in the last 2 days because you say he was trolling? I'm not focusing on him, I read up on others and think there is an avenue to explore with his killing because it didn't make sense.
Why are you tying so hard to dodge any potential discussion?
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On December 08 2011 07:01 xtfftc wrote:
I've discussed it with my coach (he even made a guess as to who EB actually is) but the opinions expressed are my own.
Hmm, maybe my fault for asking but be careful referencing any talks with your coach:
11. You may not reveal or hint about the identity of your coach. You may not refer to any idea, course of action, etc. as something that was suggested by your coach.
Hopefully you won't get any trouble by the admins for it, but I had my reason for asking (not becasue I wanted to get you in trouble over rules).
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On December 08 2011 07:08 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 07:01 xtfftc wrote:
I've discussed it with my coach (he even made a guess as to who EB actually is) but the opinions expressed are my own. Hmm, maybe my fault for asking but be careful referencing any talks with your coach: 11. You may not reveal or hint about the identity of your coach. You may not refer to any idea, course of action, etc. as something that was suggested by your coach.Hopefully you won't get any trouble by the admins for it, but I had my reason for asking (not becasue I wanted to get you in trouble over rules).
Stupid me... I think I'll be alright as the opinions were my own indeed and all the records are available for review if necessary. I won't comment on this any further in the thread though.
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ey215.
While personally I liked how EY posted a well written post at the very start of the game to put a stop to the idle chatting, this was a general post that set him up for a well-observed pattern in his play that BH nailed: EY's "contributions" are mostly general posts that say absolutely nothing of significance.
Look at his filter. Apart from the BH discussion (which he was forced to take a part in after his initial overreaction to BH pushing the town forward), his activity has consisted of:
- General gameplay/policy post
- Pushing BKE, that easiest target around
- General gameplay/policy post
- Responce to Jay's half-accusation
- General gameplay/policy post
- Responce to BH's post from earlier (BH had to push him for it before EY posted it), garnished with an attempt to appeal to people's emotions ("but by god if no one wants my opinion don't ask").
- A deeper comment regarding gameplay - which would be good if it wasn't pushing pro-mafia agenda + Show Spoiler +He tried to scare town that what BH was doing was likely to lead to lurking townies doing stupid stuff that would get them lynched. This is anti-town because we need as much information as possible. Analysing someone's temperamental post is better than gambling with lynching a lurker.
A lot of these things aren't bad on their own. There's nothing wrong with pushing a newbie a bit. But the pattern that can be observed is EY posting lots of general stuff without doing any analysis/actively looking for mafia.
I can go on but the same can be seen in so many of his posts that I would have to spend the whole night working on the case. So from now on I will l focus on some of the major points I've covered earlier and pointing out stuff I've missed before.
ey215's exchanges with BH from Day 1 are full of stuff to analyse. I have already discussed things such why no townie has a reason to react to BH's play like EY did... Or my personal favourite, "I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers." My responce: + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 21:23 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:
I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers.
......what? So we all agree that lurking is bad for town. No one denies that. We need all townies to post, so that mafia are pressured into we're able to distinguish town from mafia. And then you express your concerns that if we somehow manage to get all townies to post, we would have trouble figuring out "the scum lurkers over the town lurkers"... If they don't lurk, we are going to have reads on them and figure out their alignment. No townie would suggest that this is a bad thing.
But there's a lot of other instances of scummy play. This bit, for example:
On December 04 2011 15:39 ey215 wrote:
It worked on me because it pissed me off. It may not do so with someone else. I just don't want some random intimidated townie getting lynched because you deemed a paragraph or two on the question on hand isn't enough and decided to throw out a ##vote on them.
Makes sense. He doesn't want townies to get intimidated into posting stupid things. But...
On December 04 2011 15:48 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:25 Velinath wrote:
I don't think that asking people to post is too much to ask. I see voting them (given the more than 40 hours till deadline) as an easy way to prod them into saying something. It's not as if the vote can't be removed once they post.
I just think it's dangerous and is how bandwagons get started, of course at some point someone is going to have to start voting on someone I just don't want another new player coming in and seeing ##votewhoever a couple of times while trying to catch up and think that obviously that must be the person to vote for. As long as the rest of us are careful to not let the bandwagon get going, then I'm fine with whatever. It is just really easy to let one person make the decisions through sure force of personality or constantly posting ( I would think in a newbie game especially) by getting a ball rolling. As long as we're vigilant and step i and say, "Hold the fuck on that doesn't make sense" then I'm fine with whoever doing whatever they think will help the town win. Just like I think I've been doing the last few posts with Blaze.
Oh, wait, he is actually concerned that his might end up with a bandwagon because one person switches his vote all the time...
At 15:39 he explains his opposition of BH with one argument, at 15:48 - with another. The problem with this is that he iis way too afraid to simply let the subject go; he did his best to "win" the argument.
I'm not even 1/4 through his filter... I will try to finish it at work tomorrow. In the meanwhile, I would like to encourage you to re-read his filter. It's been non-stop, up until the way he jumped on the Jay bandwagon while expressing his own disbelief for doing so just an hour ago (not to mention that he didn't provide a serious read on Jay either + Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:On the Jay case: yes, he was hedging but there's a whole lot of hedging going on early in the game. Is it because he's trying to not take a definitive stand so he can't be held accountable for it later or is it because he truly doesn't know and is offering options? To me it felt like hedging, he's been pretty definitive in some of his other posts. Ok, this got posted while I was typing this and going through filters: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:
LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.
You know before i called you out
Look at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town. ##vote: jaybrundageFuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option.
There is more to come for those who are not convinced yet but I am nevertheless:
##Vote: ey215
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So we all agree that lurking is bad for town. No one denies that. We need all townies to post, so that mafia are pressured into we're able to distinguish town from mafia.
And then you express your concerns that if we somehow manage to get all townies to post, we would have trouble figuring out "the scum lurkers over the town lurkers"... If they don't lurk, we are going to have reads on them and figure out their alignment. No townie would suggest that this is a bad thing.
You're still missing the point on this one, there are two types of lurkers. Scum and Town. In a newbie game you're more likely to end up with a newbie lurker because frankly, we don't know how to proceed. I did not think browbeating lurkers was going to help us find the lurkers that are scum over the lurkers that are town. We'd just end up with some lurkers posting and then we lynched a town lurker because he couldn't be browbeaten into posting (because he was afk). Browbeating people into posting did us no good. In fact, it got you to try to start a vote on a vanilla townie, namely me.
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Ey215 has been on every one of your bandwagons so far from Adam----> EB -----> BByte -------> JayBrundage.
@BH : Why is Ey215 one of your main town reads? I think he is just sheeping your vote.
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On December 08 2011 07:30 xtfftc wrote:ey215. While personally I liked how EY posted a well written post at the very start of the game to put a stop to the idle chatting, this was a general post that set him up for a well-observed pattern in his play that BH nailed: EY's "contributions" are mostly general posts that say absolutely nothing of significance. Look at his filter. Apart from the BH discussion (which he was forced to take a part in after his initial overreaction to BH pushing the town forward), his activity has consisted of: - General gameplay/policy post - Pushing BKE, that easiest target around - General gameplay/policy post - Responce to Jay's half-accusation - General gameplay/policy post - Responce to BH's post from earlier (BH had to push him for it before EY posted it), garnished with an attempt to appeal to people's emotions ("but by god if no one wants my opinion don't ask"). - A deeper comment regarding gameplay - which would be good if it wasn't pushing pro-mafia agenda + Show Spoiler +He tried to scare town that what BH was doing was likely to lead to lurking townies doing stupid stuff that would get them lynched. This is anti-town because we need as much information as possible. Analysing someone's temperamental post is better than gambling with lynching a lurker. A lot of these things aren't bad on their own. There's nothing wrong with pushing a newbie a bit. But the pattern that can be observed is EY posting lots of general stuff without doing any analysis/actively looking for mafia. I can go on but the same can be seen in so many of his posts that I would have to spend the whole night working on the case. So from now on I will l focus on some of the major points I've covered earlier and pointing out stuff I've missed before. ey215's exchanges with BH from Day 1 are full of stuff to analyse. I have already discussed things such why no townie has a reason to react to BH's play like EY did... Or my personal favourite, "I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers." My responce: + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 21:23 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:
I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers.
......what? So we all agree that lurking is bad for town. No one denies that. We need all townies to post, so that mafia are pressured into we're able to distinguish town from mafia. And then you express your concerns that if we somehow manage to get all townies to post, we would have trouble figuring out "the scum lurkers over the town lurkers"... If they don't lurk, we are going to have reads on them and figure out their alignment. No townie would suggest that this is a bad thing. But there's a lot of other instances of scummy play. This bit, for example: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:39 ey215 wrote:
It worked on me because it pissed me off. It may not do so with someone else. I just don't want some random intimidated townie getting lynched because you deemed a paragraph or two on the question on hand isn't enough and decided to throw out a ##vote on them. Makes sense. He doesn't want townies to get intimidated into posting stupid things. But... Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:48 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:25 Velinath wrote:
I don't think that asking people to post is too much to ask. I see voting them (given the more than 40 hours till deadline) as an easy way to prod them into saying something. It's not as if the vote can't be removed once they post.
I just think it's dangerous and is how bandwagons get started, of course at some point someone is going to have to start voting on someone I just don't want another new player coming in and seeing ##votewhoever a couple of times while trying to catch up and think that obviously that must be the person to vote for. As long as the rest of us are careful to not let the bandwagon get going, then I'm fine with whatever. It is just really easy to let one person make the decisions through sure force of personality or constantly posting ( I would think in a newbie game especially) by getting a ball rolling. As long as we're vigilant and step i and say, "Hold the fuck on that doesn't make sense" then I'm fine with whoever doing whatever they think will help the town win. Just like I think I've been doing the last few posts with Blaze. Oh, wait, he is actually concerned that his might end up with a bandwagon because one person switches his vote all the time... At 15:39 he explains his opposition of BH with one argument, at 15:48 - with another. The problem with this is that he iis way too afraid to simply let the subject go; he did his best to "win" the argument
I was responding to two different people, why is this so hard to understand? To further clarify the point I was making is not scummy it is important. I don't think voting haphazardly is a good idea. I'll go on and respond to your upcoming response, my vote on Jay is not haphazardly throwing my vote around. I think he's the best case and am willing to lynch him. the same way I was willing to lynch BByte..
I'm not even 1/4 through his filter... I will try to finish it at work tomorrow. In the meanwhile, I would like to encourage you to re-read his filter. It's been non-stop, up until the way he jumped on the Jay bandwagon while expressing his own disbelief for doing so just an hour ago (not to mention that he didn't provide a serious read on Jay either + Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:On the Jay case: yes, he was hedging but there's a whole lot of hedging going on early in the game. Is it because he's trying to not take a definitive stand so he can't be held accountable for it later or is it because he truly doesn't know and is offering options? To me it felt like hedging, he's been pretty definitive in some of his other posts. Ok, this got posted while I was typing this and going through filters: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:
LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.
You know before i called you out
Look at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town. ##vote: jaybrundageFuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. )
Right, my fault for recognizing there was a bandwagon potentially forming and not being pleased that I couldn't offer any help to either A. Stop it or B. Confirm that it wasn't a bandwagon. You'll notice that this is consistent with my concerns about bandwagons above.I still feel BH's case is the one, especially after the stuff today, that is currently best. That does not mean I'm happy to making the vote.
Also, what is there for me to gain as mafia by pointing out I'm jumping on the potential bandwagon? Where's the logic in that?
Also, check out my last reply to him. There is more to come for those who are not convinced yet but I am nevertheless: ##Vote: ey215
You're welcome to your opinion, but you are wrong. I am town. I would encourage others to spend time elsewhere. I will answer any questions anyone has related to this case to the best of my ability.
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xtfftc is warned for referencing a discussion with his coach. Just don't do it again.
In case anyone is curious as to why the rule is in place, ask after the game is over.
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On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:
Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me.
I was not ‘parroting’ Veli here, I was echoing my own thoughts, which I posted here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12620144 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12620376 . I've already made my thoughts crystal clear on how much i think we gained by the Bbyte lynch (first link), but I am also accepting of my responsibility of not preventing it.
On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:
This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless.
My “fluff” that you’ve pointed out here is me asking jay to start defending himself properly, because id really like to be wrong here, I don’t want to lynch another townie, but I’m not seeing anything from him that’s pushing me towards that conclusion.
On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:
This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay.
Did you even read the post you quoted after the first line? I showed him the right way it should have been said. This slip from jay is an insight into his subconscious mind.
Go ahead and revisit your theory. It is your duty to this town to examine every read you get and push it if you think it holds weight.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So, I'm off to my final, and that's gonna keep me tied up for some time. As you can see, I faced off with JB and that is a lot of posts, so I'm gonna link to my important analysis/evidence posts for my case against JB.
As the pressure has increased on him, he has lied and scumslipped quite a bit. I've assembled these links and quotes here so that it's easy to find. to prove I'm not taking stuff out of context, all the links are included so you can click through and see the truth for yourself. Open the spoilers to see the posts.
My complete Case on JB being scum
The original case, from last night:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=26#514
+ Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummyShow nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi!  There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information. Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. Worthless comment. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked  Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME. Hedges about me. Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far. Defending BKEXE Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me Hedging on EB. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit. Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end. So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy" Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X. However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.Bad arguments. No value. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it.
My thoughts on the BByte lynch and my response to JB's criticism:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#594
+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 09:54 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted. Don't do that. Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam.
My case for JB in the morning. I vote for him in this post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=31#602
+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:My Original Case for JB: + Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummyShow nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information. Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. Worthless comment. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME. Hedges about me. Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far. Defending BKEXE Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me Hedging on EB. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit. Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end. So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy" Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X. However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.Bad arguments. No value. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it. THE NEW MATERIAL: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok im going to make a full response to BH but first what do you mean by hedging i thought it might be a mafia term but i looked it up. And got nothing and also adam i was talking about BKEXE being a easy lynch. Can't google hedging?? Meaningless dodge attempt. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:45 jaybrundage wrote:
BH i cant even understand your post what the fuck is hedging lol. Half of your statements are me hedging someone. So plz tell me what it means Mode Dodge attempt. After this I post the definition of hedging. He ignored it. Completely COMPLETELY DODGES. The end of the day is comingup... Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS. THIS ISN'T A REAL ARGUMENT. THIS IS HIM BASICALLY SAYING THAT HE KNOWS BBYTE IS TOWN. This is him setting up to be proven right and be like "lawl i'm town u guyz even though i contribute nothing and dodge like i'm a fucking agent from the matrix" LIKE IF YOU HAVE RESERVATIONS, DON'T POST THEM 1 MINUTE AFTER THE VOT EDEADLINE. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT? THE REASON YOU WOULD WAIT IS THAT YOU DONT WANT TO ACTUALLY STOP THE VOTE BECUASE YOU ARE SUCM AND THIS IS MEANINGLESS. COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this scum scum scum
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
This post continued from the previous post due to being over 100,00 characters long.
JB is caught in the "EB isn't dead" lie.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=31#608
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=32#621
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=32#629
+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 11:09 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Well BH time to get to your post.
It's been time for some time, JB. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Half of my posts you called Hedging. The way you post it i assumed hedging was something a mafia would do.
However as far as i can see it hedging is just stating your opinion with out stating it as a fact or a statement correct?
Well ofc this is the case so far the only person who's alignment i know is me and Bbyte.
Therefore i could state Bbyte is a town or that he was pushing a town agenda but was lurking. I would not have to say i think hes pushing a town agenda. Or it seems to me. Or any of that bullshit.
The reason i use this hedging is because i don't know anything. Everything that i state is speculation, analyze, and my thoughts on a matter.
So in the end everyplace that you said i was hedging was really just me giving my thoughts and opinions on someone. No, where you're hedging you're deliberately not making statements so you can't be accountable to them later. The fact of the matter was, where other people were making analysis and backing up their claims with evidence, you were hedging like a hedgehog. This is typical mafia play, to try to lay low and not stick out the head. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Then you bold where i stated something about breadcrumbs and WBGs play On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:
What i said
BByte-
He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte
What BH wrote
Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME.
Ok for this im going to get Bbyte's quote so we have some context. On December 04 2011 21:58 BByte wrote:Good morning afternoon, nice to get the game started. On policies: Lynch all liars and Lynch all lurkers are useful tools for hunting scum and promoting valid town discussion. Some random points:On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:
Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim, but they can still be useful in analyzing which claimant is the real one. Depending on who the claimants checked, whether any of those checks flipped is still valid information to use. Back to reading the thread, more thoughts later. Also feel free to ask me anything, I'll be happy to discuss stuff that's not already beaten to death. Hm So i said that WBG was roleclaiming and because of his Breadcrumbs people believed him (incorrectly because he did turn out to be mafia). But as Bbyte said Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim So i agree with him. Because WBG used them to his advantage as mafia. Maybe i assumed that people would know about the game. But i dont think i did anything mafia like in this maybe just assuming something? Funny how ambiguously worded that paragraph was, that it could mean one thing or the other depending on if people called you out on it or not. You literally didn't mention, link, or QUOTE that WBG WAS SCUM IN THAT GAME. This seems like a fairly crucial detail in a game full of people who haven't played before. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Moving onYou criticize my comment that no one should get heated in the thread. Are you honestly calling that post Link Do you think that we should let our emotions guide our conversation. I was using examples but getting heated in this game is not gonna help us. I could call you out as Stupid and being idiotic for lynching a townie. But obviously even if i was pissed it would be dumb to do that. I think that we can both agree that you making a snide remark to ey about playing lol didnt help at all in finding mafia. Don't you agree? I stand by the descision to lynch Bbyte. At the time we made it, it was our best option. I also made up with ey215 very quickly after that. I'm not calling you out because I dislike you personally; I'm calling you out because you're a mafia member and by lynching you we can win this game. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
On another note EB you wrote you think im scum. Plz provide a case. Or what you say is useless HAH. HAH HAH HAH. You are fully aware EB is dead and asking him for a case. Literally every townie is fully aware of this. Are you really trying to pretend you don't know the mafia shot him? Nobody's gonna buy that. There's no way you don't know the mafia shot EB. This is another lame attempt at looking town that is obviously not working. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. This is not actually a refutation of my case. QUOTE ME. QUOTE YOURSELF. Show me where you unequivocally make a solid case BEFORE THE VOTING DEADLINE PASSEd. Show me. Evidence. But there is none, right? There's no evidence becuase you're guilty. On December 07 2011 11:59 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Dude you gotta read the thread more.
I still think your hedging comment is bullshit. I gave my opinion on things. I expect to be held fully accountable for what i state. Apparently not because you're dodging. dodging hard. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol if i was fully aware EB was dead why would i ask him for his case on me. I think your just putting pressure on me becauese of this post.
...you would ask him for his case on you so you'd appear town. ._. do you really not understand what i'm saying here? I'm saying you lied. I'm saying you pretended to think EB was alive, because you wanted to appear town. But as it turns out, our heads are not made out of hard candy. Our bodies are not sturdy cardboard cylinders We are not suckers. We don't buy it. Scum. On December 07 2011 12:20 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 12:17 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 12:04 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 12:02 jaybrundage wrote:
But this question has to be asked if i saw the daypost why the hell would i ask EB a question who is now dead? it makes no sense if i was mafia or town. Its just a stupid thing to do. And makes me look suspicious. Ah, so because it was dumb, you must not be mafia? You can't WIFOM your way out of this. You made a gambit to look town and it backfired, bad. Nobody misses the day post. Not even you. No dude its called Occam's Razor the simplest explanation is the prolly the correct one. I didn't see EB was dead so i asked him a question. What your are doing is WIFOM. But a dumb one imo. Call it what you will i didnt see the day post. simple as that you think it's SIMPLER that you didn't see the day post, THIS DAY POST: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#597WITH THE BRIGHT RED PICTURE, THE ONE RIGHT NEXT TO THE ONE WHERE WE VOTE YOU, THE ONE THAT YOU'D LITERALLY HAVE TO SCROLL PAST TO SEE OUR VOTES that's the post you didn't see? For reference, outside observers: This is the post he claims he didn't notice: Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:00 Forumite wrote:- Day 2 -![[image loading]](http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2513/communistparty.gif) After class the day before, some of the students felt in the mood for a party, and tagged along with ElectricBlack, one of the older students, back to his part of the dormatory. Drinks were had, and they also performed an impressive experiment involving tequila, oranges and fire. There were no major injuries, and one death. Memories of the evening went foggy after that. At the class several of the students showed the effects of a late night of heavy drinking, but what really caught everyones attention was not the state of those present, but one notable absence. Zona arrived and looked around the classroom. "Isn´t ElectricBlack here yet? Not much we can do about that, we will just have to continue the exercise without him."
ElectricBlack, the Vanilla Townie missed class and was expelled!
Day 2 ends in 48 hours, at 01:00 GMT (+00:00), or 10:00 KST the 9th of December yeah man i miss posts like tat all the time
JB caught lying about my stance on BByte
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#702
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 03:49 Blazinghand wrote:My response to JB re: the BByte lynch Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 00:00 jaybrundage wrote:So after Bbyte mislynch he posts this little gem. On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. He tries to take all of the blame off himself. He states its everyones fault the lynch went wrong today AND I QUOTE since WE all failed to capture a majority He REFUSES to take responsibility for HIS mislynch. He even has the audacity to blame the town. and then ends it with most towns mislynch first day. He tries to throw a pitiful bandaid on it And then when i call him out on it. On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D He comes back at me with this On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this
scum scum scum Thats the most cohherent response he has? Really? What the dicks is this Wow.
NO. NO YOU ARE LITERALLY LYING. THAT'S NOT WHAT i CAME BACK AT YOU WITH. ARE YOU SERIOUS.
HERE IS THE REPLY POST I MADE TO YOUR POST. I MADE IT BEFORE I MADE THAT POST. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY YOU ALWAYS LEAVE OUT AND CHERRYPICK MY QUOTES OH WAIT I KNOW WHY ITS BECAUSE YOURE MAFIAShow nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:54 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted. Don't do that. Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam.
JB tries to hedge and insinuate and I force him to state his position, which is that I am mafia. I catch him in another inconsistency, but he claims it's sarcasm.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#710
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#716
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#719
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 03:58 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:
LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.
You know before i called you out
Look at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze Ah yes, respond to me catching you in a lie with a question. Dodge my question as well. Well, I'll answer your question: when I said "we all failed", believe it or not, "we all" includes me. I was sharing responsibility, not abdicating it. I was fighting sheeping. and I still am. So, answer me. DO YOU THINK I AM MAFIA? Say it straight out. I want you to be accountable for your opinion. On December 08 2011 04:10 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:06 jaybrundage wrote:I think you and Veli are mafia. Lol oh wait im hedging again oppsies + Show Spoiler +VELINATH AND BLAZINGHAND ARE MAFIA There ya go :D BTW that text is kind of big and obnoxious, somehow even moreso than my own. I'd like to point out another classic JB self-contradiction: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:07 jaybrundage wrote:On December 08 2011 01:04 Velinath wrote:
Oh, and because it seems to be the popular thing to do:
@jaybrundage Come at me, bro. Still Following BH LOL Is this serious? All JB seems to do is lie, misquote, and hedge. On December 08 2011 04:12 Blazinghand wrote:Caught in yet another inconsistency? Must be sarcasm.
In conclusion, JB was somewhat scummy, I voted him, and he has continually responded in a non-town fashion to the pressure. Please consider my analysis and your own and Vote JB to lynch a mafioso.
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Posting some of my own reads. Though it is not very detailed ATM, I hope that it will be enough to get some discussion rolling.
Blazinghand
+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping. So hurry up.
BH brings the pressure to other players so as to generate contributions and discussion, giving himself a pro town image.On December 04 2011 13:35 Blazinghand wrote:In fact, given that most of those people are European, it's fairly likely they're asleep. I'm going to discuss our other semi-lurkers. ey215 has made a single post so far: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:
What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. Hi all! Lynch all Liars is rough, sometimes you need to use your head and be able to tell the difference between a lie and a misunderstanding or misstatement. In games where people are posting a lot it's very easy for people to misspeak not realizing what exactly they've said in the past. I would think some common sense would help here. If it's an outright lie, by all means lynch away. If it's a misstatement and we've got a better case on someone it's better to let it slide. On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. Looking forward to this. He basically says... absolutely nothing. He indicates that we need to use common sense about lies, and that we should lynch scum before lurkers if possible. That's very accurate, ey215, but it's clever how you've managed to say nothing of any import, and this is your sole post, AND you're awake (american). No substance, all fluff. Noob or Mafia? too early to tell. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? Another guy with literally 1 post that says nothing. obvious we shouldn't lynch people for misspeaking. And... of COURSE we need to figure out what to do as a group. We VOTE on the lynch. What do I think? I think you're either absurdly unhelpful or a mafioso doing a bad job of blending in. You're the same as the people who haven't posted yet, because YOU HAVEN'T POSTED ANYTHING YET.
In this post, he goes after the 1post lurkers and exert pressure on the lurkers, once the lurkers start contributing, he unvote them and goes after the other lurkers.To me, BH feels like a townie, he is being very aggressive against lurkers to start getting content out of them. Without his active contribution during, we might not have enough content to form our reads, he also provides reasonable analysis so I would not consider him a mafia now. Alignment : Town
Velinath
+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 15:20 Velinath wrote:This is my first game as well (believe it or not), and I'm still contributing (at least, I think so). I feel like we could stand to hear more from you. As jaybrundage said, try to give some opinions. At the moment you're the best scumread I have, and given that, I'd like to hear what you have to say more than what I've heard so far. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:18 ey215 wrote:
However, we need to be careful about what we define lurking as. If it's just they never post, that's easy. If it's they post, but only a couple lines then that's more of an decision to be made through analysis. I'd rather see a few posts a day that are failry well thought out and longer than a bunch of one liners that don't mean anything. I agree, and I think the town will be able to see that especially as we start building cases. Filtering and seeing one-liners is something that raises a red flag in my eyes. He is trying to actively get other newbies to start contributing, this action benefits the town as we would be able to get more content for our reads. He also brings out a good point on the potential mafia lurkers and exert pressure on them so that they would not be able to get away with lurking and posting useless content.
On December 05 2011 23:50 Velinath wrote:Good morning. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:34 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 20:24 xsksc wrote:
What's interesting? I can't make a big post about you right now cause I'm playing SC2, I'm posting quickly inbetween games. I'll do it when I'm finished. Velinath agreed with BH's reasoning that I must be scum because I decided not to vote, He already has shown himself to be willing to be critical of the situation, so I'm not worried about him. Once he realizes my choice of not voting was actually optimal in the situation (as explained when I first started responding to the cases built while I slept), I think he will find something more productive to do. Hi! I never said you were scum. I said you were playing anti-town. There's a key difference - check out ... oh, shoot, I can't remember if it was Kenpachi or Coagulation in 46. One (or both) of them was lurking extremely hardcore, promised analysis "tomorrow" that never got there, posted a few one-liners here and there - and then they flipped town. The players in 46 didn't necessarily assume that they were scum - just not playing to the best interests of the town. I thought the same thing about you here. Now, that said, both the reasoning you posted for why you didn't post and your case on Hassy are quite good. I think if you had just said "Hey, it's 1 am here, I'll post some thougts in the morning" I think that would have been fine - time zones are things we can understand. What's happened has happened, though. ##UnvoteNow, some questions. Tunkeg posted some good content early, and now he's completely disappeared. I'd like to hear more from him, because right now he's gone from being a helpful member to lurking pretty hard for a while now. BByte still hasn't checked in despite both myself and, later, xtfftc mentioning him. I want to hear from him - he's provided minimal content including a very half-assed case on me and some sketchy analysis on ey215. This could just be lazy play but it's starting to worry me, since after voting me (posts doing so comprise almost half of his filter!) he's disappeared. I would be happy to see him lynched, especially since the two people I previously had worries about content generation have stepped up in a big way and helped out. ##Vote: BByteAdam and EB have both stepped up and provided some good analysis (and I was really impressed by EB's case. I'm going to take a closer look at Hassybaby. Calling someone "Serejai" after watching 47, even if not voting them, reeks of OMGUS as I said earlier in the thread, and is an overreaction to light pressure - plus, the bandwagoning is, as noted here in addition to your case, a matter for some concern. Headed to class but I should be able to keep an eye on the thread. He shares the details of an old game and what we could learn from it. He is actively going after anti-town and lurkers to get them to contribute and create a better town atmosphere, although he has some filler post, i feel that he is pro town.Alignment : Town
jaybrundage
+ Show Spoiler +Now lets move on to the poor guy jay who is getting targeted. On December 07 2011 13:10 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol BH you don't get it. I was on page 26 the entire time typing my response.
While the New day post was on page 30 is it really that hard to understand.
I posted what i had to say about your post for me and then looked over the new posts.
If you dont believe me great i said i cant prove it. You act like this was a scum slip. When i just hadn't seen the day post.
Regardless i want to get more input from people before i start typing a case. Adam is still might have my vote but lets see what new information the new day brings It seems like some of the aggression came from jay not keeping up with the new day post. He could lying about it but it might also be true. However , his next post came into my mind + Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 00:00 jaybrundage wrote:Well so after rereading alot. And going through lots of filters. I have my thoughts on who i think is mafia. Try to have a open mind tho. So at the start of the game BH has been a leading factor for this game. Because of this and his very aggressive playstyle people began to follow him. He the closest you can come to confirmed townie. And because of this people began sheeping to him. One of these people almost to a dot has been Veli. The first person that noticed this trend was Adam. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:
My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target.
You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =).
Who then got voted for by BH first shortly followed by Veli. I did participate on the vote with adam however i gave my own reasoning. Instead of just hoping on the bandwagon. Veli has had filler posts the entire game. following BH lead almost the entire game hear are some examples. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:24 Velinath wrote:
EBWOP because you guys post too fast:
Blazinghand, I completely agree with your idea here. If we lack a case on a poster in the thread, lurkers are, regardless of alignment, anti-town, and they should be lynched in preference to a no-lynch.
Given that,
##Vote: Bbite
Let's hear from another nonposter. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:34 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand, that's a good point. It looks like all of the people who have not posted are probably doing so because of time zones.
As such, I'm dropping my vote (assuming I'm formatting properly!) and will put it back on if one of our four "lurkers" hasn't posted in the next 12-16 hours.
##Unvote: BByte Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi,
this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 03:29 Velinath wrote:Whee, time to copy in my reads. Keeping a spreadsheet is going to be quite helpful, I think. Blazinghand: Feels very Townie to me. Posting reasonable content and post analysis already. Willing to take actions on his stances. Softclaimed Vanilla Townie http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=8#152 Bringing lurkers out, which can ONLY help town. I approve. Call it 90% town. Also, his discussion with ey215 looked good, and convinced me further of his townieness. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 08:53 Velinath wrote:
On Adam4167:
So far, two posts. I can see why everyone's suspicious of him - he made a mistake in attacking the most vocal (and, in some people's minds, most pro-town) player. That said, I feel like it could be just defensiveness to BH's style. I'll have to wait for more posts, but for now he's just made my watchlist.
Alot of Veli's post where filler and have been following BH in almost everycase. The other big factor to my case is the mislynch of Bbyte. I do agree that he was lurking a good bit. However what was one of is contribitions. Well lets look back. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:20 BByte wrote:My strongest scum read so far is Velinath. He has been active (very much so actually), but what has he contributed? Some policy discussion, a bit of finger pointing (mostly to spark activity), some fluff. Mostly he has been following other people's ideas, not making his own calls. All of this is something scum could easily do with very little risk.Then there are a couple of posts of light analysis. His "reads post" sums it up best: + Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 03:29 Velinath wrote:Whee, time to copy in my reads. Keeping a spreadsheet is going to be quite helpful, I think. Blazinghand: Feels very Townie to me. Posting reasonable content and post analysis already. Willing to take actions on his stances. Softclaimed Vanilla Townie http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=8#152 Bringing lurkers out, which can ONLY help town. I approve. Call it 90% town. Also, his discussion with ey215 looked good, and convinced me further of his townieness. BroodKingEXE: Empty post. Worries me.Feels scummy but could be a noob. Amend: Six posts that don't sit right with me, but again, could be new player. xkskc: Leaning town for now. Started our policy discussion. Discussion is good. While he disagrees with BH's methods, I clearly feel like he's playing a townie game right now. Different methodolgy, same goal. To note, he pointed out that there may be mafia in the group leadership., which should be something to keep in mind. Question is whether it's sowing suspicion or genuine pro-town, and I haven't figured that out yet. xtfftc: Null read. He argued against LAL and LALurkers, and I don't wanna go with that. Let's look again once he posts again. (Amend: Looked through his filter to update this post, and I really liked his post here. Still a null read, but this feels positive to me.) ey215: Pointed out some good things. He sees Blazinghand's methods as creating tension within the town, and that's fine - he's entitled to opinion. Like xkskc, he disagrees with methods but seems to be working towards the same goal. Their discussion, while heated, really brought out to me that they both seem very town-aligned, and willing to take positions and defend them. EB: Makes good points. At this point I'm leaning town, simply because he's pro-discussion this early. That said I'd love to see more posts here. Tunkeg: Posted his reads, and is encouraging discussion. I think this is a good thing, and might peg him as one of the influential voices in the town soon. Largely a null read, but I'm starting to lean town. BByte: I'm not totally impressed yet. One post about breadcrumbs (which is more about the game in general than a content post) and one post about a couple of the players. That post was good, and I agree that we shouldn't be intimidated by one person, but I'd like to see more. jaybrundage: Neutral for now, but a lack of content disturbs me. We've still got like 30 hours though. Adam4167: Two posts, neither of which hugely impress me. I liked how he went through and stated a clear opinion on BH's play. While I disagree with his opinion, I think that the way he put things is pro-town in that post. I'd love to see more content here, but so far looks pretty good. Hassybaby: Disagrees with early targets, and I can see why. I think he is overly defensive towards Tunkeg - not an OMGUS vote, but definitely that kind of idea. Not sure what to think, but this early just a null read. Grackaroni: Posted reads, but before that there's a bunch of policy posts. Not that I haven't made a ton of policy posts too, but I'll wait for more content. Null read. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:18 BByte wrote:Okay, back home and (re-)reading the thread. Boy did I pick up a bad day to be AFK. First note: There's a reason a day lasts 48 hours. The first vote on me was made 9 hours ago, roughly 10 hours before the lynch deadline. Second note: I stand by my earlier statement: There are no real lurkers in this game. Instead of voting based on activity, I'd prefer a vote based on the actual content of the posts. For the people who are voting me: In case there are any specific questions that you'd like for me to answer, please post them and I'll give what answers I can. Whether my answers will be enough to convince you to vote someone else is up to you. On December 06 2011 00:31 Velinath wrote:Alright, that's fair Grack - but let's look at BByte. He posts once a few times 17 hours ago, comes back 8 hours ago to post one thing. He states in the thread that he'd post thoughts if needed, but he hasn't done that - a couple sentences here or there. I did however state that I'd be extremely busy with work today. It's only 9 hours since the first vote on me. That's not really enough time to expect someone to be able to answer. On December 06 2011 03:35 Blazinghand wrote:
As you can see, he's got a vote on velinath, and hasn't made a serious argument. Velinath's arguments on his scumlist might have been vague, but since then, velinath has made a liberal outpouring of posts and BByte remains silent. I don't know who's mafia, but I know we need more commitment than that out of our townies, and BByte's soft case and small vote count make it seem like he's hiding something. How exactly is my vote suspicious? I posted my read (which was against pretty much everyone else, is that mafia behavior?) and I perhaps didn't articulate my case as well as I should have, but what am I hiding? For my activity see above and my previous posts. I also find weird from a quick skim through the posts since the last I've read the thread that no one has actually even commented on the actual content of my accusation on Velinath. What do people think about his posting, especially up to the point I accused him? Was / am I sure he's scum? No, but at least my vote was based on a read instead of a non-read. The post I made about the case was perhaps "half-assed" in hindsight. I did spend a lot of time reading and analyzing, but not enough time in forming my case to a coherent post. Also I didn't use nearly enough quotes. And he gets tagged team by the duo of Veli and BH. He tries to post to defend himself. Tries to show that what he did wasn't scummy. He posted his reads more then some of the people in this thread. After he knows that he is gonna get lynched he posts this. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:59 BByte wrote:
Okay, so it seems I'm about to be lynched. Unfortunately I was pretty much MIA today, and wasn't able to respond to the case (or lack thereof) made against me.
I've tried to post honestly and openly. What I've said so far I still think is pro-town. Apart from that, I'd like the town to note two additional people:
Blazinghand: He has been very active and vocal so far. That paints him as town. However, he could have made all the posts nearly as easily if he were scum. To the townies: Please hold him up to the high standard he has presented so far. He still might be scum, just well hidden in plain sight. He was also the second guy to vote for my lynch.
xtfftc: Some scum vibes off him, not enough time to post an actual case. He posted a case on Veli and was soon voted for by BH and ofc Veli followed like he always does. The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli. Also remember the sharade that happened with EB. He was going to post a reason why hassybaby was a lynch candadite and did not want to put his vote in because he did not have time to write it up ( he did not say this at the time) But BH could not stand someone stand up to him. He went out and called him anti town and wanted everyone to vote him. This is one part Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:01 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. On December 05 2011 10:59 ElectricBlack wrote:
No.
Good night. Ladies and gentlemen, case closed. EB's just trying to spite me? Trying to spite THE TOWN? We need him out. He's worse than a lurker. Look how it went for trying to spite BH to spiting the town. EB was not spiting the town he was doing it because BH was being pushy and a bully and he would not stand for it. So after Bbyte mislynch he posts this little gem. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. He tries to take all of the blame off himself. He states its everyones fault the lynch went wrong today AND I QUOTE since WE all failed to capture a majority He REFUSES to take responsibility for HIS mislynch. He even has the audacity to blame the town. and then ends it with most towns mislynch first day. He tries to throw a pitiful bandaid on it And then when i call him out on it. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D He comes back at me with this Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this
scum scum scum Thats the most cohherent response he has? Really? What the dicks is this Wow. Also as a side note. After BH posts his case on me ofc Veli follows like he always does. With no real content of his own. The funniest part is that he even states im not his strongest scum read. But he follows BH like he always does. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 12:37 Velinath wrote:
Hi Blazing. My best scumread is still Hassybaby right now, as per my comment from the middle of Day 1 (after EB posted that he would post a case the next morning) and later, EB's case that went through the points I made as well as additional points. That said, I'm reluctant to push him as a lynch target until he gets replaced and his replacement shows up - or he comes back from AFK, one of the two. This is my case I would suggest everyone go back and reread with this is mind and look at how Bbyte was Mislynched. Thank you for your time I would be open to vote for either as i think there both scum Veli or BH For now im voting for Veli because thats who BByte wanted to lynch and he ended up getting mislynched. ##Vote Velinath Alignment : Null
Thats it for now, I have to go grab some sleep. As a replacement I find it hard to catch up but I will still try to contribute. I'm new so I hope I did ok.
Edit: Gl for your finals!
|
You poor souls.
My proposed scumteam: Hassybaby/Bluelightz, BroodKingEXE, jaybrundage
BKEXE:
I'm hoping to get my other two cases up by the end of Day 2, but it's kind of dependent on some stuff. Currently working on a term paper that's eating my life.
My premise here is that BKEXE has consistently generated content-low posts with a few key missteps that have led me to conclude that he is scum. I've gone over his filter again and don't see anything that supports another conclusion.
His first three or four posts are all composed of filler and inconsistency:
On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think?
Two obvious points. We should not be lynching over misspeech (as opposed to lying) - and we need to make a majority decision (self-apparent from how the game works).
On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot
Not really much to say here. Time zones might be a problem, but he completely dodges the question I asked him about policy right after his first post.
On December 04 2011 14:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
Well I think that Lynching any inconsistent comments is definitely a good idea. We need to be sure that any information we are getting is consistent and to keep the amount of strategies that the mob could be using low. As for the lurkers I agree that when in doubt we should vote for the lurkers. The information that they have could be useful or they could just be neglecting to play the game, which means they should not be playing at all.
After a little more prodding, he says this. This is, again, pretty self evident, but I find it interesting that he says "lynching any inconsistent comments is a good idea" here, and "we should make sure people did not mispeak" earlier. Two different things - and the second is far more beneficial to scum.
On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment.
I asked him which one he meant and he came back with this...which doesn't make any sense to me, STILL.
(skipping 2 worthless filler posts, one of which is just a confirmation that Jay is soft-defending him for being new)
On December 05 2011 07:06 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For all of you who are getting a bad read on me, I want to confirm that I am a newbie. While I respect that Blazinghand has been pusing to prevent lurkers my reponses were obivouisly to defend myself. I feel that it is still a strategy that will work to get reads on the mafia, even if it has put me in the red. In the early stages of the game I feel that there is no way I would be able to get any proper reads as a newbie, but right now I am leaning to:
Mafia:
Adam - his critism of Blazinghand's style comes right after a compliment showing that he is defininetly trying to kiss up to him.
Hassy - he also critized Blazinghand's style in that he accuses him of targeting people early. His votes were clearly for getting people to talk, not at all to decide who to lynch.
Townies:
Blazing - has been contributing to the discussion and trying to get others to talk.
Velinath - I am kind of borderline on this as he has been contributing, but he seems to be following Blazing as opposed to creating comments of his own.
Turnkeg - I think he has been pressuring a little, trying to get a read,but I will go for townie.
Grackoroni - I will put him here because in one of his comments he left his own name on Turneg's read list and did not comment. I feel like this would have been something that he could have used to push his case.
As for the rest I feel like I have not got enough infomation. I am going to be off for the next few hours as I have a project due, but I will be sure to take a break to put my vote in.
"I'm a newbie and here are some of my reads. And I'm a newbie." Hammer that point home, BKEXE! Plus this post sounds way different in tone than his previous ones. NOW, THAT SAID: this could be because he took some time to think about this one, so I won't read too much into that point.
On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions?
"blah blah WIFOM blah blah I'm a newbie, also more WIFOM"
(Skipping two filler posts one of which is an EMPTY VOTE WITH NO REASONING). Also, at this point I'd like to note that he still hasn't put in too much input on anyone else's reads or anything to that nature.
On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter.
"I'm a newbie! Again!" We get it...but I don't buy the reasoning.
On December 05 2011 10:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hassy if you need evidence read this: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:39 Tunkeg wrote:
So are you trying to establish yourself as a boring townie by not posting anything or what?
Adam, a couple of questions for you:
What is your thoughts on Blazinghand's aggressiveness? How do you perceive him thus far? Is his play pro-town or anti-town?
Any thoughts on xsksc's play? Is he a key player in this game? If he is scum, what effect will that have on the game? If my lack of posting thus far has crowned me as a boring townie, I guess it’s a mantle I’ll wear; I had a Sunday off and decided to go out drinking. My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. This is the main reason I want to vote for adam, when I first read this I realized that BH had only made four votes. The evidence he includes to back his statement is wrong, so that means that the statement although long as hastily thought out, not paying attention to what is going on, and therefore contributing as a towns member 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target. Xsksc is someone I’m more familiar with after close examination of the Newbie Mini Mafia thread. So far he has begun discussion, scolded Blazinghands reckless aggression and defended himself well when called out. Is he a key player in the game? Not yet, but neither is anyone else. This is also a bogus statement. He says that there are no major players in the game when he points out above that BH voted for half the players. To me that is a major move in itself. If he had read the forum at all he would have seen that BH has gotten the majority of players, including myself, to speak Is he pro-town? All signs are pointing towards yes. If he turns out to be mafia, id hope to think we can still catch him out and hang him even with his greater mafia experience over us. On December 04 2011 16:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Adam has correctly noted that there are no no-lynches in his sole post. Helpful, but not enormously so. Also, he's certainly awake since he's Australian. I'm gonna slap my vote on him and wait for him to contribute some more. Maybe he's eating or out or something, but hopefully this will get more than 1 post
Adam, I'd like to see you contributing to the discussion more. I'm heading to bed relatively soon, but when I wake up I hope to see a new post from you.
##Vote Adam4167
I don't necessarily think you're scum or that other people should vote for you, but you've only made one post, and that's simply not good enough.
Hurry up. As previously stated, I went out drinking. And after I finish this post, I'm going to need at least 6 hours to sleep it off. I feel that by flinging your vote in every direction, you have cheapened the weight of your vote when you eventually do decide to settle on a target. I also feel the need to point out again that you have had 5 separate votes in 12 hours, which is almost half of the players participating.You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =).
Alright, some reasoning. Unfortunately, I feel like that first red sentence (which is BKEXE's insertion into the paragraph, explaining reasoning) is just straight up bad - and the second one isn't much better. The first - well, I mean...it's just one vote, BH was still the most active voter, I don't see a problem here. Adam said his piece and it's not really taken away from by a difference of one vote, when BH had already voted so many times. The second, BKEXE misread and thought that Adam meant that BH wasn't an active town figure when Adam was actually talking about xkskc. Ends up being shaky reasoning.
On December 05 2011 11:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hey BH what is up with this? Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
To clarify, ElectricBlack CLAIMS to have good evidence/details to lynching HassyBaby, and not only does he refuse to give this information in a timely fashion for those of us in different time zones, he won't even vote. He has well earned my vote, and deserves yours as well. You neglected to mention this fact until after EB refused to vote. Are you holding back any other pieces of information?
More misinterpretation that only serves to cast false (by the reasoning he uses, anyway) aspersions on another player. He notes that he was wrong in the next couple posts after he gets called out on it.
Next post is really long and I don't feel like quoting it, so: reiteration of the same incorrect reasoning on Adam from a few posts ago, with some kind of weird stuff afterwards about how being drunk or sober affects...something. Next post after that is another filler post.
On December 07 2011 04:25 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
The concert went great, but I am still worried about what BH said earlier.
I have some information, but I feel that if I post it the mob might get a lot more information.
I feel like it is important that we be careful what we say, because the mob needs to figure out who knows who the mafia members are.
"I have reasoning, but let's not talk about things during the night post." Don't suppress conversation during night, if you die with your reasoning, you can't tell people what you think. (yes, this means that I was slightly suspicious of BH for trying to suppress night talk).
Next post is another erads post. It's better than the last one, but he leaves out two people. TWO people. There are three mafia. Maybe a slip, maybe not, who knows? If it is, he left out Tunkeg and jaybrundage. Tunkeg's not one of my scumreads right now, but jay sure as hell is.
A couple posts about bandwagons, posting the two reads he forgot about, etc. He says bandwagons are a bad idea. I disagree due to scum being more able to influence more split votes.
On December 08 2011 00:57 BroodKingEXE wrote:FUCK!!I just realized that we could have figured out EB was a townie from this post, saving us from lots of trouble. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:Sup. Here's the things that interested me when I read the thread through initially: On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. If we happen to get it wrong and kill the blue, we get a guarenteed scum lynch the next day, so it's not the end of the world Don't get the wrong idea here blues, we do NOT want you to claim now cause you'll just get shot, it's just a hypothetical situation. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. On December 04 2011 13:13 xsksc wrote:Ok I'm going to clarify for those unsure. Changing your past opinnion about someone or being wrong about something is not gonna get you lynched for lying. A misunderstanding is not a lie. Telling us you got roleblocked or medic saved etc when nobody visited you that night, that's a lie. Making a fake dt claim to try and lynch someone you think is scum, that's a lie. It's ok to be wrong, just don't straight up lie This is exactly what LAL is all about. Do not lie. You are allowed to change your mind. Straight up contradicting yourself is not recommended, but it's not a direct lie either. What is a direct lie is for example what's posted by xsksc, and that shit will get you lynched faster than you can say OMGUS. On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.So hurry up. What kind of a bullshit vote is this. If you're gonna attack me for not posting, do it in a way that actually has even a slight chance of putting any kind of fear into me. If you explicitly state your pressure targets can get rid of your votes easily, then there is no pressure, and thus no dire need to respond to the situation. Here he says if he is lurking then to do it in a way that would put pressure on him. He was obviously not scared of being lynched a pure townie reaction. Next time you pressure me or anyone else, convince me that you'd be willing to hang me. Only when threatened with death do people actually respond in the way you want them up. Don't include a get out of jail free card in your post. On December 04 2011 15:04 xsksc wrote:
Blazinghand, don't be so trigger-happy.
Day 1 always starts like this, we have nothing to talk about so we create discussions. People aren't posting because there's no meangingful discussion going on. I got some going about policy lynches, we've discussed that to death though. Nobody is "lurking" right now because there is no meaningful discussion going on. Why not? Despite his methods being somewhat flawed, he's doing a helluvalot better job than the rest of town in creating discussion. Only problem with him is that he's not convincing enough in his voting spree. If I was scum I'd actually feel pretty safe ignoring him. However, it seems likely he is town, unless he has a really good scumcoach, because I'm not sure scum would draw all this attention to themselves right out of the gates. Also he said this quote before saying he was not going to vote. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. He had already established that he was not going to give details until the morning. BH used this argument against him a little hastily. QUOTE] On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense.
This quote also can be named as non useful as people get angry if you do not put down a vote.
In all I feel like we need to have more analysis of the people we are getting scum reads on as a town. I will continue to look over EB's posts to figure out why they killed him. At the moment though I have come up with some hypothetical situations.
1) The mafia is dumb and voted for the player that was rated by the town as the worst townie ever.
2)EB had a read or opinion that the mafia did not like (xtfftc, xsksc, Turnkeg, jay, Velinath) the problem I think here though is that EB's claims were unsubstantiated in the case of jay a player that we already are looking to lynch. He also mentioned following breadcrumbs were a bad idea, so maybe the mafia wants us to follow breadcrumbs.
3)The mafia is just trying to throw us off with this vote. This is the worst case scenario, it means that the mafia felt safe enough to not take out players that they think the town needs to figure them out. This would mean that the majority of our reads are not strong enough or just plain wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Hi! Let's talk about dead people and why they died, because we can't WIFOM this to death or anything. It's an attempt to get the town caught up in talking about things that are, ultimately, largely irrelevant.
On December 08 2011 01:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:I am going to agree with BH on the fact that jay is scum. Looking back over his posts I realize that you have half filler and the other half stuff like this: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. You start off with shit like this a little bit of actual analysis. You can see that he changes his opinion halfway through the post. I understand that he does not have a good read on EB, but he should have just stated that he was neutral about him as opposed to leading us around in a circle.Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. Another one of these roundabout things, first he says that he thinks Velinath is townie, but he never backs it up instead choosing to say Bbyte had a good case on him (without a quote) I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much And finally you have this. I am not sure if this is a filler or a personality thing, but he compliments someone for posting after a while, but goes on commenting on how he wants to know more. You do not need to put a whole paragraph to get someone to say something, a simple question will to just fine to make you seem unaggressive. Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. Wait there is more? I am really not sure if this is part of his personality or a filler, but it does not do anything to help the town whatsoever. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me
I call this bussing. He reads initially that "jay is probably a misunderstood townie!" - and then goes to here right after the shitstorm with me, jay, and BH. "Let's hop on the bandwagon before anyone suspects me!" He also manages to say all of this and not vote
On December 08 2011 01:55 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
You need to include the whole quote the context that these quotes are in could be very different from the quote itself
Here is an example:
"All cows are green"
Whole Quotes:
"All cows are green in my imagination stories"
He whines about context (Soft defend the person that he just said was scum), but apparently he missed the part where anything in the post he was referencing was impossible to take out of context and was just straight up lies. Meh.
Both of his last two posts are urging everyone to talk about EB's death some more, because obviously talking about WIFOM reasoning gets us places - even after we've explained why it's a bad idea.
BKEXE's tried to pass himself off as a newbie using WIFOM reasoning, tried to misdirect attention off of his scumbuddies, and in general has been inconsistent. He posts limited analysis, much of it nonsensical, in an effort to misdirect the town. He's willing to bus his scumbuddy jaybrundage, but unwilling to lay the vote down - and then softdefends him anyway. He insists that we talk ad nauseum about EB's death - an activity that is ultimately pointless due to WIFOM.
I only had time for this one tonight, although I think I've made my position on both jaybrundage and Hassybaby clear in past posts. If you'd like me to post more regarding both of them and/or sum up what posts I find particularly scummy, I can do so; otherwise, please refer to ElectricBlack's case as well as my post EARLIER IN THE THREAD referencing the same points on Hassybaby, and refer to the last 5 pages of this thread for scum evidence on jaybrundage.
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ebwop: Broken nested quotes. I think I am going to cry.
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I got permission to edit the post.
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EPT
