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Going off topic with the religious discussion from page 11 and onwards will net you a 2 day ban at least. Stay on topic pretty please, with minerals on top. |
On September 21 2011 11:58 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? Because the majority of gay servicemen won't come out anyway to the millitary it changes very few peoples situations.
i think you are vastly underestimating the professionalism of the armed forces
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On September 21 2011 11:58 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? Because the majority of gay servicemen won't come out anyway to the millitary it changes very few peoples situations.
I thought the bigger issue is that with DADT, if you somehow accidentally let out that you were a homosexual or that someone else somehow found out that you were a homosexual, regardless of whatever means, you carried a high risk of being kicked out of the military. I doubt that homosexuals will openly reveal themselves to be homosexual within the military with the repeal of DADT, but in the case that someone else finds out because of a simple mistake or because of malicious snooping the individual will not be kicked out of the military for the simple reason that they are homosexual.
This goes beyond being just a symbolic act.
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On September 21 2011 12:00 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:58 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? Because the majority of gay servicemen won't come out anyway to the millitary it changes very few peoples situations. Ok? So what exactly is the problem? How does this make it dumb? It's a civil rights issue nonetheless. Since when have civil rights become less important because they effect a small minority as opposed to a large minority?
The point is that repealing DADT is in no way a bad thing... just that celebrating this as some huge victory when it barely changes a thing to me is ridiculous. They should have been campaigning for getting same sex couples benefits just like heterosexual couples get, thats something that would actually change the lives of gay servicemen and their families.
i think you are vastly underestimating the professionalism of the armed forces
It has nothing to do with the professionalism of the armed forces, and more of the mentality of the soldiers. Not to say bad things about the soldiers at all, but its not exactly the most welcoming place for homosexuals, regardless of DADT.
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Ergo, but this all has to be a step by step process. It wouldn't make any sense at all to ask for same sex couple benefits when revealing that you are a homosexual is enough to make you lose your job.
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On September 21 2011 12:04 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 12:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:58 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? Because the majority of gay servicemen won't come out anyway to the millitary it changes very few peoples situations. Ok? So what exactly is the problem? How does this make it dumb? It's a civil rights issue nonetheless. Since when have civil rights become less important because they effect a small minority as opposed to a large minority? The point is that repealing DADT is in no way a bad thing... just that celebrating this as some huge victory when it barely changes a thing to me is ridiculous. They should have been campaigning for getting same sex couples benefits just like heterosexual couples get, thats something that would actually change the lives of gay servicemen and their families.
Repealing DADT is a prerequisite to actually giving equal rights to gay servicepeople. How can you offer benefits to people who aren't supposed to knowingly exist in the army?
People are celebrating it because A) it's a good thing and B) it took a shit ton of effort to get it past the homobigots who desperately tried to cling to the policy.
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On September 20 2011 08:03 amazingxkcd wrote:
Personally, I would not care whether or not there were gay soldiers, but if this leads towards legalization of same-sex marriages, I am completely opposed to that notion.
User was warned for this post
Why was this guy warned? I don't agree with him (at all) but I don't see what he did wrong other than post his opinion
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On September 21 2011 12:09 kade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 08:03 amazingxkcd wrote:
Personally, I would not care whether or not there were gay soldiers, but if this leads towards legalization of same-sex marriages, I am completely opposed to that notion.
User was warned for this post Why was this guy warned? I don't agree with him (at all) but I don't see what he did wrong other than post his opinion
It's off-topic and non-sequitur as fuck.
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On September 21 2011 11:58 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? Because the majority of gay servicemen won't come out anyway to the millitary it changes very few peoples situations.
14,000 people have been discharged under DADT, that's substantial enough for me. But whether or not they will come out on their own is up to them, they will no longer have to live in fear of being outed and U.S. official policy should not be discriminatory.
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On September 21 2011 12:07 Harrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 12:04 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 12:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:58 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? Because the majority of gay servicemen won't come out anyway to the millitary it changes very few peoples situations. Ok? So what exactly is the problem? How does this make it dumb? It's a civil rights issue nonetheless. Since when have civil rights become less important because they effect a small minority as opposed to a large minority? The point is that repealing DADT is in no way a bad thing... just that celebrating this as some huge victory when it barely changes a thing to me is ridiculous. They should have been campaigning for getting same sex couples benefits just like heterosexual couples get, thats something that would actually change the lives of gay servicemen and their families. Repealing DADT is a prerequisite to actually giving equal rights to gay servicepeople. How can you offer benefits to people who aren't supposed to knowingly exist in the army? People are celebrating it because A) it's a good thing and B) it took a shit ton of effort to get it past the homobigots who desperately tried to cling to the policy.
While DADT may have started as a homophobic policy or w/e u want to call it, it wasnt kept because of homophobia. It was kept as a way of keeping groups of people who are in high tense situations from feeling different/resentment towards each other, regardless of how wrong it was.
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On September 21 2011 12:11 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 12:07 Harrow wrote:On September 21 2011 12:04 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 12:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:58 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? Because the majority of gay servicemen won't come out anyway to the millitary it changes very few peoples situations. Ok? So what exactly is the problem? How does this make it dumb? It's a civil rights issue nonetheless. Since when have civil rights become less important because they effect a small minority as opposed to a large minority? The point is that repealing DADT is in no way a bad thing... just that celebrating this as some huge victory when it barely changes a thing to me is ridiculous. They should have been campaigning for getting same sex couples benefits just like heterosexual couples get, thats something that would actually change the lives of gay servicemen and their families. Repealing DADT is a prerequisite to actually giving equal rights to gay servicepeople. How can you offer benefits to people who aren't supposed to knowingly exist in the army? People are celebrating it because A) it's a good thing and B) it took a shit ton of effort to get it past the homobigots who desperately tried to cling to the policy. While DADT may have started as a homophobic policy or w/e u want to call it, it wasnt kept because of homophobia. It was kept as a way of keeping groups of people who are in high tense situations from feeling different/resentment towards each other, regardless of how wrong it was.
And now we recognize that it's time to tell bigots to get over it  Just like when we allowed, accepted, and acknowledged blacks in the military, as well as women. Gays are people too ^^ Integration may be tough for homophobes, but it's their problem, not the gays'.
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On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:40 Bulldog654 wrote:
I feel like it is very difficult for many of you to understand why Christians/Mormons/Musilims are against this, hopefully I can clear it up.
As a Christian I believe that God judges individuals in the after life but judges nations here and now. I believe God stated that man lying with man is an abomination, and I believe that if as a nation we endorse their behavior then we as a nation will lose his blessing. Simple as that. So you're going to try to enforce YOUR religious beliefs on other people? Classy. Thing is, I'm atheist, and don't give a damn what your Bible says, nor do I believe in these blessings. You might as well force people to be Christian. Intolerance in every which way.
No, I said nothing at all about forcing my religious beliefs on other people. I could make the point that you, following the religion of Atheism, force your religion on me by supporting the legalization of acts that are against my religion. Maybe one day when you get over being so pissed all the time and lose a good deal of your self righteousness you'll come to the understanding that people vote their conscience, and calling them bigots and intolerant only makes you an intolerant bigot.
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American Christians that are so obsessed with the idea of setting up a theocracy in their nation really need to read Luther.
User was warned for this post
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On September 21 2011 12:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 12:11 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 12:07 Harrow wrote:On September 21 2011 12:04 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 12:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:58 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? Because the majority of gay servicemen won't come out anyway to the millitary it changes very few peoples situations. Ok? So what exactly is the problem? How does this make it dumb? It's a civil rights issue nonetheless. Since when have civil rights become less important because they effect a small minority as opposed to a large minority? The point is that repealing DADT is in no way a bad thing... just that celebrating this as some huge victory when it barely changes a thing to me is ridiculous. They should have been campaigning for getting same sex couples benefits just like heterosexual couples get, thats something that would actually change the lives of gay servicemen and their families. Repealing DADT is a prerequisite to actually giving equal rights to gay servicepeople. How can you offer benefits to people who aren't supposed to knowingly exist in the army? People are celebrating it because A) it's a good thing and B) it took a shit ton of effort to get it past the homobigots who desperately tried to cling to the policy. While DADT may have started as a homophobic policy or w/e u want to call it, it wasnt kept because of homophobia. It was kept as a way of keeping groups of people who are in high tense situations from feeling different/resentment towards each other, regardless of how wrong it was. And now we recognize that it's time to tell bigots to get over it Just like when we allowed, accepted, and acknowledged blacks in the military, as well as women. Gays are people too ^^ Integration may be tough for homophobes, but it's their problem, not the gays'.
I agree to a point. The only problem is that you say "its their problem, not the gays", people who have a problem with gay people have historically made it into a problem for those gay people, lol. While DADT was a restriction of civil liberties it was also a means to try and protect gay people in the military in a way... if that makes any sense to you at all lol.
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On September 21 2011 12:14 Bulldog654 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? On September 21 2011 11:40 Bulldog654 wrote:
I feel like it is very difficult for many of you to understand why Christians/Mormons/Musilims are against this, hopefully I can clear it up.
As a Christian I believe that God judges individuals in the after life but judges nations here and now. I believe God stated that man lying with man is an abomination, and I believe that if as a nation we endorse their behavior then we as a nation will lose his blessing. Simple as that. So you're going to try to enforce YOUR religious beliefs on other people? Classy. Thing is, I'm atheist, and don't give a damn what your Bible says, nor do I believe in these blessings. You might as well force people to be Christian. Intolerance in every which way. No, I said nothing at all about forcing my religious beliefs on other people. I could make the point that you, following the religion of Atheism, force your religion on me by supporting the legalization of acts that are against my religion. Maybe one day when you get over being so pissed all the time and lose a good deal of your self righteousness you'll come to the understanding that people vote their conscience, and calling them bigots and intolerant only makes you an intolerant bigot.
1. Atheism isn't a religion
2. Atheism doesn't enforce any beliefs or practices
3. Let's all drop the religious talk before warnings (or thread closings) start happening from the derailment.
Please?
So, about DADT getting repealed... ^^
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On September 21 2011 12:17 koreasilver wrote:
American Christians that are so obsessed with the idea of setting up a theocracy in their nation really need to read Luther.
I have no interest in setting up a theocracy, but that in no way means that I can't take my religious beliefs into consideration when I determine my stance on any given matter.
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On September 21 2011 12:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 12:14 Bulldog654 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? On September 21 2011 11:40 Bulldog654 wrote:
I feel like it is very difficult for many of you to understand why Christians/Mormons/Musilims are against this, hopefully I can clear it up.
As a Christian I believe that God judges individuals in the after life but judges nations here and now. I believe God stated that man lying with man is an abomination, and I believe that if as a nation we endorse their behavior then we as a nation will lose his blessing. Simple as that. So you're going to try to enforce YOUR religious beliefs on other people? Classy. Thing is, I'm atheist, and don't give a damn what your Bible says, nor do I believe in these blessings. You might as well force people to be Christian. Intolerance in every which way. No, I said nothing at all about forcing my religious beliefs on other people. I could make the point that you, following the religion of Atheism, force your religion on me by supporting the legalization of acts that are against my religion. Maybe one day when you get over being so pissed all the time and lose a good deal of your self righteousness you'll come to the understanding that people vote their conscience, and calling them bigots and intolerant only makes you an intolerant bigot. 1. Atheism isn't a religion 2. Atheism doesn't enforce any beliefs or practices 3. Let's all drop the religious talk before warnings (or thread closings) start happening from the derailment. Please?
1.Lol @ Atheism isn't a religion.
2.Neither does Christianity, otherwise there wouldn't be an issue, Islam enforces beliefs and practices, how close do you think Iran is to allowing gays to serve openly in their military?
3.Now that I've made MY point I'm happy to drop the religious talk.
User was warned for this post
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I want anyone willing to fight fighting for the country. I don't give a shit who they want to fuck, because it means I am less likely to have to enlist. Good job.
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On September 21 2011 12:14 Bulldog654 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? On September 21 2011 11:40 Bulldog654 wrote:
I feel like it is very difficult for many of you to understand why Christians/Mormons/Musilims are against this, hopefully I can clear it up.
As a Christian I believe that God judges individuals in the after life but judges nations here and now. I believe God stated that man lying with man is an abomination, and I believe that if as a nation we endorse their behavior then we as a nation will lose his blessing. Simple as that. So you're going to try to enforce YOUR religious beliefs on other people? Classy. Thing is, I'm atheist, and don't give a damn what your Bible says, nor do I believe in these blessings. You might as well force people to be Christian. Intolerance in every which way. No, I said nothing at all about forcing my religious beliefs on other people. I could make the point that you, following the religion of Atheism, force your religion on me by supporting the legalization of acts that are against my religion. Maybe one day when you get over being so pissed all the time and lose a good deal of your self righteousness you'll come to the understanding that people vote their conscience, and calling them bigots and intolerant only makes you an intolerant bigot.
No, you can't say that at all because you're wrong. I'm not forcing anything upon you by legalizing things you don't believe in and to even attempt to insinuate such is absurd. What you want to do is be a bigot by hindering on other people's rights. Me wanting to legalize gay marriage does not in ANY way infringe upon your rights. You voting with your conscience does not make you not a bigot because, as much as you want to deny it, you are one.
bigot: n
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race
Tolerance is completely different than accepting. You can tolerate homosexual marriage without personally accepting it as legitimate. I am in fact tolerant of your right to have your own personal opinions, but I will never accept them. You aren't just not accepting gay marriage, but are apparently intolerant of it. You wish to use your personal vote to be intolerant of other people's personal freedoms because of your own selfish beliefs.
Unless you think people shouldn't get married if they're homosexual (or quite frankly, shouldn't participate in any homosexual acts in the first place), and that's fine, but will support their right to make their own choices. Then I would have misinterpreted you.
On September 21 2011 12:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 12:14 Bulldog654 wrote:On September 21 2011 11:56 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 21 2011 11:41 PHILtheTANK wrote:
This whole thing is dumb. From my experience homosexuals in the millitary actually LIKED don't ask don't tell. I have friends in the marines who say they will still never come out to other servicemen because of their fear of being ostracized from their peers. People made such a big fucking deal about repealing DADT, instead of doing somethig that mattered i.e. getting same sex marriages millitary benefits. How does DADT being repealed change their situation then? On September 21 2011 11:40 Bulldog654 wrote:
I feel like it is very difficult for many of you to understand why Christians/Mormons/Musilims are against this, hopefully I can clear it up.
As a Christian I believe that God judges individuals in the after life but judges nations here and now. I believe God stated that man lying with man is an abomination, and I believe that if as a nation we endorse their behavior then we as a nation will lose his blessing. Simple as that. So you're going to try to enforce YOUR religious beliefs on other people? Classy. Thing is, I'm atheist, and don't give a damn what your Bible says, nor do I believe in these blessings. You might as well force people to be Christian. Intolerance in every which way. No, I said nothing at all about forcing my religious beliefs on other people. I could make the point that you, following the religion of Atheism, force your religion on me by supporting the legalization of acts that are against my religion. Maybe one day when you get over being so pissed all the time and lose a good deal of your self righteousness you'll come to the understanding that people vote their conscience, and calling them bigots and intolerant only makes you an intolerant bigot. 1. Atheism isn't a religion 2. Atheism doesn't enforce any beliefs or practices 3. Let's all drop the religious talk before warnings (or thread closings) start happening from the derailment. Please? So, about DADT getting repealed... ^^
It's not really a religious talk I don't believe, but rather a talk on tolerance, which is 100% on topic. If what I posted actually is considered to be religious talk (I don't mean to, it's unintentional if I am and will make a mental note to stay away from it in future posts), I apologize. It wasn't meant as an attack on Christianity, but rather an attack on people who use their religious beliefs to try to restrict other people's freedoms, which is the tolerance issue.
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On September 21 2011 12:19 Bulldog654 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 12:17 koreasilver wrote:
American Christians that are so obsessed with the idea of setting up a theocracy in their nation really need to read Luther. I have no interest in setting up a theocracy, but that in no way means that I can't take my religious beliefs into consideration when I determine my stance on any given matter.
Whatever the state puts out by law should have little effect on what you do personally. Your argument is vapid because whatever the state decides on how to approach homosexuality does nothing to how the church decides to approach homosexuality, etc. etc. and this goes on.
The separation of the church with the state, faith with the aesthetic, God with the world, precedes Luther, Kierkegaard, and Barth all the way to Christ; "render unto Caesar...".
American Christianity is so fucking moronic. It's blind, deaf, and idolatrous. Korean Christianity is little different. It's little wonder that the Europeans have said since long ago that America has lost her ability and right to read scripture.
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On September 21 2011 12:27 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 12:19 Bulldog654 wrote:On September 21 2011 12:17 koreasilver wrote:
American Christians that are so obsessed with the idea of setting up a theocracy in their nation really need to read Luther. I have no interest in setting up a theocracy, but that in no way means that I can't take my religious beliefs into consideration when I determine my stance on any given matter. Whatever the state puts out by law should have little effect on what you do personally. Your argument is vapid because whatever the state decides on how to approach homosexuality does nothing to how the church decides to approach homosexuality, etc. etc. and this goes on. The separation of the church with the state, faith with the aesthetic, God with the world, precedes Luther, Kierkegaard, and Barth all the way to Christ; "render unto Caesar...". American Christianity is so fucking moronic. It's blind, deaf, and idolatrous. Korean Christianity is little different. It's little wonder that the Europeans have said since long ago that America has lost her ability and right to read scripture.
Some pretty ridiculous and insulting comments in here. Just because you see idiots on tv preaching a bunch of BS doesn't mean that represents "American Christianity"..... theyre just a bunch of idiots preaching shit on TV.
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