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Hello guys. I know this game can sometimes be frustrating, but that is no excuse to insult, post image macros and so forth. Quit it please. Im warning/banning too many of you (in retrospect) T____T |
On August 10 2011 11:11 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 11:09 Amui wrote:On August 10 2011 11:01 JJH777 wrote: What? MMA vs Nestea had nothing to do with MMA's multi-tasking. Nestea was keeping up just fine he had something there to deal with every drop. Roaches are just so fucking terrible vs marines with medivac support that it didn't matter. 7-8 roaches should be able to beat 8 marines + a medivac it's pretty ridiculous. MMA was kiting the roaches through the minerals whereever he could. Nestea just sent shit at every single drop. Obviously if roaches are getting stuck behind roaches, they get owned by marines. Despite what MMA's fanboys believe all he does is stim and a-move his drops. Every now and then he micros them but he isn't positioning them like you believe. It's still ridiculous how cost effective marines can be vs roaches. MMA was absolutely not out multi-tasking Nestea.
Like a-moving roaches, banes, and lings is any better?
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On August 10 2011 11:11 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 11:09 Amui wrote:On August 10 2011 11:01 JJH777 wrote: What? MMA vs Nestea had nothing to do with MMA's multi-tasking. Nestea was keeping up just fine he had something there to deal with every drop. Roaches are just so fucking terrible vs marines with medivac support that it didn't matter. 7-8 roaches should be able to beat 8 marines + a medivac it's pretty ridiculous. MMA was kiting the roaches through the minerals whereever he could. Nestea just sent shit at every single drop. Obviously if roaches are getting stuck behind roaches, they get owned by marines. Despite what MMA's fanboys believe all he does is stim and a-move his drops. Every now and then he micros them but he isn't positioning them like you believe. It's still ridiculous how cost effective marines can be vs roaches. MMA was absolutely not out multi-tasking Nestea.
Actually what MMA does with his drops is that he constantly moves NesTea's main force out of position. Sometimes even forcing NesTea to split up his forces to deal with it, and thus wearing his units down.
What's lost in all of this is MMA's timing. He went Hellions first to force Roaches, which delayed the Mutas, which in turn allowed the Drops to be dangerous. And then MMA switched over to Marines and Tanks. This forced NesTea to make Banes and without Mutas and a solidified 3rd base, NesTea got dismantled pretty handily.
Multi-tasking isn't about MMA microing every damn drop, it's his ability to have several things go on at once forcing his opponent to scramble to meet every confrontation and then through that wearing him down. Also, he micros just enough so that he doesn't lose too many units. It's pretty crazy to see MMA expand while he has 2 drops going on and a siegeline shelling the 3rd base.
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On August 10 2011 11:25 Gatored wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 11:11 JJH777 wrote:On August 10 2011 11:09 Amui wrote:On August 10 2011 11:01 JJH777 wrote: What? MMA vs Nestea had nothing to do with MMA's multi-tasking. Nestea was keeping up just fine he had something there to deal with every drop. Roaches are just so fucking terrible vs marines with medivac support that it didn't matter. 7-8 roaches should be able to beat 8 marines + a medivac it's pretty ridiculous. MMA was kiting the roaches through the minerals whereever he could. Nestea just sent shit at every single drop. Obviously if roaches are getting stuck behind roaches, they get owned by marines. Despite what MMA's fanboys believe all he does is stim and a-move his drops. Every now and then he micros them but he isn't positioning them like you believe. It's still ridiculous how cost effective marines can be vs roaches. MMA was absolutely not out multi-tasking Nestea. Like a-moving roaches, banes, and lings is any better?
well, that was his point. a-moving 8 roaches should be able to deal with a-moving 8 marines + a medivac...
anyway it's freakin awesome to take a set from Nestea. gogo MMA!
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On August 10 2011 10:41 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 10:30 EchoZ wrote:On August 10 2011 10:14 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 10 2011 08:48 lunchforthesky wrote:On August 10 2011 07:48 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 10 2011 06:39 Jinivus wrote: Not even MC and Nestea can stop the terran infestation...dark times for our zerg and protoss brethren. Yeah I mean its not like last code s final was a ZvZ final, code A was a PvP, assembley was a PvZ and so was EU invitational. Oh wait... EU means nothing, their players are inferior especially the Terrans and players don't play to win by any means like Koreans do. Oh so Code S being ZvZ and Code A being PvP means nothing then? On August 10 2011 09:48 EchoZ wrote:On August 10 2011 07:48 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 10 2011 06:39 Jinivus wrote: Not even MC and Nestea can stop the terran infestation...dark times for our zerg and protoss brethren. Yeah I mean its not like last code s final was a ZvZ final, code A was a PvP, assembley was a PvZ and so was EU invitational. Oh wait... Look at it realistically, any of the current Protoss and Zerg in Code S can take the crown? Well so far the only contender that has been knocked out is MC, so did that much really change with these two groups of Code S? No it didn't. Nestea is still in the tournament. Losira is in it. Every protoss other than MC is in it still too, including the protoss that beat MC last season, Hong Un. The only thing that changed so far is that MC is eliminated. And looking at MC's recent GSL performances, is it really a surprise? Since his last GSL Championship win, he hasn't done shit in GSL. Regardless of why, he has been under performing in GSL. All this doom and gloom right now is just unjustified. We are one day into Code S and two days into Code A. Look at all the results. What has happened that is just so crazy? MC losing? He lost to MVP which is hardly an upset. And he lost to Noblesse which is pretty much the only upset that has happened so far. Looking at Nestea's ZvT compared to MMA's TvZ it shouldn't be that surprising as MMA's TvZ is insanely good. And next round when MVP beats Nestea its not an upset, MVP is far better at TvZ than Nestea is at ZvT. So outside of MC, which Zerg or Protoss has been knocked out of GSL, Code A or S that was unexpected? Did you see the Nestea vs MMA game, and not to mention that he is playing MVP next. Do you think HongUn is a contender? or Losira? They might be top players, but defeating the likes of MMA and MVP is on another level. Well do you class Puzzle a "top contender"? Because he made MMA look nothing special last code A (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Global_StarCraft_II_League_July/Code_A). Did anyone expect HongUn to top MC? Anyone who knows anything can see MC is on a different level to HongUn, yet it happens. If only the "top contenders" won everything, then the GSL would have stagnated into it's stable solid Code S. As it stands in recent GSL history, the "contenders" have lost some of the following: - Nestea lost to TOP 2-1 in the Super Tournament - MVP lost to Ganzi 2-1 in the Super Tournament - MC lost to HongUn 3-1 in July - MVP lost to Zenio and Byun in the July group - MMA lost to Puzzle 2-0 in July Code A I don't know who else you consider as "contenders", but they lose to "non-contenders" every day of the week. And if you don't think Losira is a top contender you're crazy.
People can improve fast enough that disparities like that happen. There is so much time between each round let alone each season, results don't say much about someone's current skill level. I've always seen HongUn as a very good player. If you look at his results he's always performed consistently, usually getting far in GSL. Anyways HongUn 4gated many of his games so obviously his 4 gate is good. And he happened to use his 4 gate skills against MC and beat him. Who knows, maybe HongUn's 4gating and PvP is better than MC's, or at least looking at the two of them only.
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On August 10 2011 11:29 redloser wrote: well, that was his point. a-moving 8 roaches should be able to deal with a-moving 8 marines + a medivac...
anyway it's freakin awesome to take a set from Nestea. gogo MMA!
Exactly. I'm not trying to take anything away from MMA. While I find it laughable to say he is the only terran capable of that drop play he is a very good player and probably a top 10 terran. His multi-tasking did not win him that game though. Roaches being so inefficient vs marines during pretty much every drop is what won him that game. That and the fact that Nestea had like 1000 gas he was trying to spend on mutas but couldn't.
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if you guys didn't see in the MMA v Nestea game MMA had a viking clearing out the overlords.
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MMA is so insane.
Nestea is still impressive. It's good to see a champ that doesn't suddenly get way worse with the next season.
Mvp is also looking REALLY solid. I don't think he'll take out Nestea though. His style is COMPLETELY different from MMA's. Mvp has played THE MOST safe I have ever seen in a SC2 game for the last few weeks.
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Can't wait to see MMA vs Polt and Nestea vs MVP in the RO16. Some great stories there!
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MMA's play was brilliant, imo, possibly the most demonstrative TvZ to date. He built just enough BFHs to force roaches before switching to MMM drops. His drops were completely forcing Nestea to stretch to opposite sides, his timing was great, and on top of that, he almost always dropped in choked locations, using the minerals, geysers and buildings.
I'm not sure what Zerg would've won that game, which isn't meant to necessarily be a balance whine. I think Nestea could've won if he had not stretched himself across too many techs (either skip roaches or build enough that they'll actually be effective at stopping drops. He'd take on drops with 2 or 3 roaches and it just was never enough).
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On August 10 2011 12:12 fant0m wrote: MMA is so insane.
Nestea is still impressive. It's good to see a champ that doesn't suddenly get way worse with the next season.
Mvp is also looking REALLY solid. I don't think he'll take out Nestea though. His style is COMPLETELY different from MMA's. Mvp has played THE MOST safe I have ever seen in a SC2 game for the last few weeks.
I think that MMA's constant harassment is the kind of style that Nestea falls to the most, like with SC's early game bunker, or TOP's openings. MVP generally plays much more standard, and with impeccable execution, although this is the kind of Terran that Nestea is probably much more comfortable facing. Hmm, I dunno, I think Nestea will take it 2-1, but if MVP can beat Nestea, then he will probably be able to take another finals, and reclaim his throne.
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Worst part about today's results are that MC will be in the U/D matches.
Best part is that it frees him up for MLG. =)
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MC losing is just like MVP losing last GSL. Its not that mvp just lost all his skill its just so easy to lose its almost luck more then skill if you read a build wrong. Losing 2 games to two different players is way to easy to do and GSL code S is way to volatile with how few games they play. Each player should play like a best of 3 at least although that would take along time to cut out all the randomness of better players losing to worse ones because they had a bad game that day.
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On August 10 2011 11:29 redloser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 11:25 Gatored wrote:On August 10 2011 11:11 JJH777 wrote:On August 10 2011 11:09 Amui wrote:On August 10 2011 11:01 JJH777 wrote: What? MMA vs Nestea had nothing to do with MMA's multi-tasking. Nestea was keeping up just fine he had something there to deal with every drop. Roaches are just so fucking terrible vs marines with medivac support that it didn't matter. 7-8 roaches should be able to beat 8 marines + a medivac it's pretty ridiculous. MMA was kiting the roaches through the minerals whereever he could. Nestea just sent shit at every single drop. Obviously if roaches are getting stuck behind roaches, they get owned by marines. Despite what MMA's fanboys believe all he does is stim and a-move his drops. Every now and then he micros them but he isn't positioning them like you believe. It's still ridiculous how cost effective marines can be vs roaches. MMA was absolutely not out multi-tasking Nestea. Like a-moving roaches, banes, and lings is any better? well, that was his point. a-moving 8 roaches should be able to deal with a-moving 8 marines + a medivac... anyway it's freakin awesome to take a set from Nestea. gogo MMA! He wasn't a-moving though, and even then it wasn't 8 on 8, it was 8 on 8 in one part, which he cleaned up, but then there was another drop somewhere else doing crazy damage, which he was controlling at least enough to a-move, which Nestea wasn't.
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On August 10 2011 12:53 Jnai wrote: Worst part about today's results are that MC will be in the U/D matches.
Best part is that it frees him up for MLG. =)
He isn't going to MLG, he already said he would not go to foreign tournaments and I don't think that he will want to compete with 2 other GSL invites looking for a ride into Code S. He's probably just going to practice, and practice alot.
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On August 10 2011 10:53 JJH777 wrote: If Nestea's ZvT isn't good then no one has good ZvT. its not that its not good its that MMA and MVP's TvZ is just ridiculous.
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Thorzain playing well 0_0
(wrong thread TT)
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On August 10 2011 11:38 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 11:29 redloser wrote: well, that was his point. a-moving 8 roaches should be able to deal with a-moving 8 marines + a medivac...
anyway it's freakin awesome to take a set from Nestea. gogo MMA! Exactly. I'm not trying to take anything away from MMA. While I find it laughable to say he is the only terran capable of that drop play he is a very good player and probably a top 10 terran. His multi-tasking did not win him that game though. Roaches being so inefficient vs marines during pretty much every drop is what won him that game. That and the fact that Nestea had like 1000 gas he was trying to spend on mutas but couldn't.
Probably top 10, really?? More like definitely top 2 T with the only arguable contender for the best besides him being MVP.
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Guys, just a question here, why isn't group C (With Huk) playing today? I'm pretty sure it was originally scheduled to be played today, but now it looks like 3 groups will be played on the same day next week o.O
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On August 10 2011 16:01 Ghoststrikes wrote: Guys, just a question here, why isn't group C (With Huk) playing today? I'm pretty sure it was originally scheduled to be played today, but now it looks like 3 groups will be played on the same day next week o.O
From hearing what moletrap said, I THINK they moved the entire group because huk is not in korea for some tournament. Don't quote me though.
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