EPT[GG] Red Army Mafia
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However, a couple of things I'd like to say. First of all, we aren't having any of that dumb shit clue analysis. Stuff it. You start posting a ton of clue analysis with no solid leads to the person aka name calling and you're rocketing up my suspect list. I will catch you. We don't have time for every Johnny Cumbucket to show up with their "analysis" which is not only usually wrong but doesn't even directly call the person out so they just ignore it. Don't do it. Everyone is going to call for lynching inactives - duh. Ever since I did it in Mafia 2 it's been "the easy fallback plan". Needless to say I'd rather have people that are well known, good solid players. If you are unknown to the game you better come up with some off the wall shit none of us could top to convince people to vote for you. Lastly, remember this game is more than abotu what you know - it's about what you can convince people of. With this in mind DO NOT tell people your roles!. The town keeps losing because idiots keep telling on themselves, and then the role gets leaked to the Mafia and everyone cries boo hoo he was blue sniped - no, he was an idiot. Don't do it. | ||
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There's also something I thought about. Look at that rule set. Mafia is supremely fucked. Remember the main advantage Mafia has over the town is that they know who each other are ahead of time and can kill at night much better than the town. Also they have to kill enough of us under a time limit - lol. This is such a fucked condition for them. Look at it like this: Mafia can essentially choose to Role Check OR Kill. See the problem? They don't know each other. The optimal move would be for all of them to role check people hoping they get lucky to land some mafia. However this conflicts with their win condition - if they don't kill enough of us in time we automatically win. So they really do need to start killing asap. Problem is when they start killing not only do they leave clues to themselves but they might hit another mafia. So they do need to investigate. ^_^ The Army has a really good starting stronghold - Mafia have to pick one of those abilities individually each night and both abilities contradict the other early in the game. I'm betting on mafia investigating on Night 1 instead of all going around popping people in fear of hitting each other. Now for our side we have it pretty simple. We have all the classic Mafia game roles: DT,Medic,Vet,Vigi + a suicide bomber. Unlike them our win condition is more about survival than outright killing all of them. This game we shouldn't be too worried about killing everything that moves - this means no dumb lynches just because a guy has 1 or 2 clues tied to him. Sure we can make mistakes but if we don't lynch it's really not a big deal as we win by surviving also. | ||
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In fact even if it did - why are you guys doing clue analysis? @Ver: if someone gets blue sniped it's because they are dumb, not because someone figured it out reading their posts(unless they intentionally did it). | ||
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On July 29 2009 15:56 So no fek wrote: Mainly because the last few games always have the [No Clue Area] text, if there aren't any clues. So it's possible that there aren't any clues, but likely there is. Maybe it would be best to have Caller verify. yep we'll wait for him to verify. Either way I don't trust anyone's clue analysis until I see the Night 1 post. | ||
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Also I don't believe we have vote checks this game. It's a pretty broken ability imo and I'm glad we don't have it as it makes people pay attention more in order to win the game. | ||
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People being cautious with their vote but posting in the thread are almost always suspect as they are waiting on others to vote. True townies, especially the really good ones tend to be really straight forward with their votes and have some solid reasoning to back it up. Likewise they aren't afraid of being questioned on why they did it. So this game I'll be taking things a bit more seriously (lol) and anyone playing dumb is instantly suspect. Let the Ukrainian rape machine commence. | ||
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1.) You say you're so sure you'd be dead tomorrow - how? Thats just really out of the blue bs as no one knows you and you haven't posted anything that could get you killed at the moment. 2.) You have some grand plan - great. If you were so sure you'd be dead why would you hide it? If the plan is really that good why not tell us, get yourself elected and live a bit longer? Some of us aren't stupid enough to elect some guy and then wait to hear his plan - tell us now or give up hope of being elected. 3.) Why would an NKVD Agent want to disguise them self as Ukrainian? That would lead to them getting killed if they got role checked. I'm hoping they really aren't that bad. Sure they could take the chance a Mafia checks them and hey they are in the Mafia circle - but when their kills don't sync up that same night what do you think happens? :/ 4.) For someone who "knows a lot of shit and has a quick mind" you've already made a huge mistake. You propose that you will lynch at random. Oh really? So instead of trying to glean more information by questioning suspects you'd rather spin the wheel and see who it lands on? Oh how is that different that a townie that randomly votes for whomever they feel like? Why would we want you as Field Marshal? You'd be pretty useless. 5.) Lastly, going with the someone who has a quick mind idea...why would you spread your votes out to townies? You don't know if they are Ukrainian scum or not so how will you know they are using their votes with pro-town(Army) benefits in mind? You don't because even if you were an NKVD Agent I doubt you'd investigate all 3 of them in time to know. Hence, it's a bad idea to do so. | ||
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Also I'll never vote for a guy who says he's going to use me and doesn't even have a plan. Sorry ^_^ | ||
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On July 30 2009 01:20 Caller wrote: ![[image loading]](http://www.robertamsterdam.com/arrest_540.jpg) URGENT ARREST It has come to our attention that we have American spies in our midst. Fortunately, the NKVD has provided us with the information we need to take them out. As of 19 minutes ago, the NKVD has arrested Foolishness and MountainDew for espionage and treason. They will be taken in front of a people's court, where they will bear the full wrath of the Soviet People, and where justice will be delivered. lolololololololololol | ||
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On July 30 2009 02:06 ~OpZ~ wrote: I agree with Coltrane...Although it further annoys are NKVD's making all their role checks questionable....But chance wise, I'm sure we have a small number of NKVD's than Ukranian Rebels...but at any rate, I support the whole, "show as ukranian, use all your checks, tell us all, then march to KIEV" attitude. I mean after the all the checks, you kinda don't have too much of a special role anymore... + Show Spoiler [NKVD Agent Role] + NKVD Agent:You are proud member of People’s Commissariat of the Interior! You search for corrupt rebels once per night, either by tracking the foul capitalist smell of the clues they leave behind, or by contacting NKVD HQ for a role check on a suspicious individual. Be warned, you cannot contact NKVD more than 3 times, they are very busy! You also can disguise your role as NKVD agent to rolechecks, and may change role or keep the same So I'd assume by night 3 all role checks could be used, we'd know more and have a safe list. And Caller didn't restrict role changes/role checks to separate nights like some DT style actions do. Sure, sure, there are holes that need refining but just my outline of a plan to find out more. Edit: Would it matter to lose them after they've used all of their abilities? Just putting it bluntly, after that time period they're only useful if they provide good clue analysis. (Which given the huge hint of knowing they should anyway) But they have no more reason to be targeted based on role, so coming out after that point shouldn't get them killed flat out, seeing as its a waste. So yea, the gains outweigh the losses. Smaller number of NKVD agents than Ukranians, I'm sure, wait til all three rolechecks are used, then...kill someone on the list... this is all wrong  If an KNVD agent poses as a Ukrainian not only do they risk getting killed by a role check from a legit DT, but they also have to hope a Ukrainian checks them. Let's assume this worst case scenario indeed does go right - they get in with a Ukrainian. That night they send in their hits and the KNVD agent's hit doesn't go through - oh shit? Are you going to say he was a Vet/protted especially if it was a random target? How about the fact that no clues seem to point towards you? So you end up dying and trade yourself for 1 mafia, when if you just did it straight RC wise you'd get a Mafia for free. That idea is just dumb. It also doesn't matter if DTs could use up all their RCs - they will always be useful because the Ukrainians won't know IF they indeed have used up all their RCs. | ||
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Now we also would have to deal with a situation where if every time someone gets Rolechecked and flips Ukrainian they just say "I'm an NKVD agent, I was just posing as a Rebel". Now what do we do? Wait a day and RC him AGAIN? Sweet, we waste another day and he kills again that night. We've just once again traded 1-1 or even 2-1 for a Rebel. That's not a good idea. In both scenarios the Red Army comes out fucked. You've been drinking too much Spetnaz Vodka. | ||
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Basically you'll want to backlog everyone thats investigated for the sake of "ok, lets hope this guy is Ukrainian and dumb enough to work in the best interest of the town" when he'll just lie about everything and you are right back where you started - no reliable info and you let a Rebel live for 2 days. Come on, lets not assume the Ukrainians are all morons who will just do whatever we say and then get themselves killed. | ||
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Think of it like the "lynch anyone claiming DT on Day 1 idea". The basis is that nothing the DT says on Day 1 can be proven or disproven. So you just kill them anyway no matter what. Good players knowing this then just realize if you are a DT it's better to breadcrumb your posts or wait for Day 2 with more evidence to roelclaim because now you can be held liable. Likewise in this game anyone claiming to be an NKVD agent dressed as a Rebel can't be proven at all unless we wait a day. The downside of course is that if he's a real NKVD agent he'll be killed asap and if he isn't we just let a Rebel live an extra night. Also remember the Rebels do not know each other - so if the NKVD is trying to infiltrate something what the hell is he going to learn? Once again lets assume our enemies aren't morons and won't just go o hai, this is everyone who's a Rebel lol want some krishnikov ice cream? | ||
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ETA: Once again let's assume our enemies aren't stupid. How is an NKVD Agent going to get into the Rebel organization? | ||
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On July 30 2009 04:48 Zato-1 wrote: The NKVD agent who came up with the RC contacts the suspect personally, and the Field Marshall as well. Nothing has to be said publicly so the Ukranians won't suspect him. How do you suppose the rebels will form an organization in the first place? They RC people, and if they turn up as rebels, they get added to the rebel network. If the NKVD agent is posing as a rebel, then the rebels either don't organize themselves at all, OR they accept anyone who comes up as a rebel in a RC into their organization- they have no other way of telling if any given person is a rebel or not. Yes they do - the hit list. If I were Ukrainian and I RC'd someoen and they came up as a Rebel the first thing I'd ask is who did they kill the previous nights. An NKVD agent has no idea who the Ukrainian knows at that point, so they'd have to lie. A real Rebel of course has nothing to hide and will tell the truth. If it was an NKVD agent asking them they'd tell who they killed anyway because if it goes to shit they themselves can also say they are just an NKVD agent posing as a Rebel - now how do you sort through the liars? Come on, think of this as if both sides wanted to stay alive for as long as possible. You are literally giving people way too many outs to lie from and that isn't good when the safest plan is just don't pose as a Rebel. | ||
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