EPTPyrry's Mafia Game - GG
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On May 18 2009 15:40 iLoveKTF wrote: I have decided on this before I have received my role. I will be running for office, either one will do, but I prefer to be Mayor. Qualifications: BC's last game was my 2nd Mafia game. My role was medic and I think I did a good job personally (town sucked :p). If elected Mayor I will use my Day 1 lynch power to kill an inactive unless someone comes up with a very brilliant clue analysis but with my experience, day 1 clue analysis isnt really strong. That being said... ![[image loading]](http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9297/ilovektf.jpg) GLHF town! Only problem I have with the Day 1 lynch is that there shouldn't be any activity in this game due to the new inactivity rules. Granted there will probably always be people who will sign up then not participate, but it's still a wasted lynch as they'll die soon anyway. But I do see why you'd do that, there not being enough clues to go off the first day (any solid ones anyway), throwing away a lynch on someone who's going to die anyway is probably better than lynching a townie. | ||
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On May 18 2009 16:25 Foolishness wrote: On the contrary, lynching someone because they are inactive is quite the bad idea. We should be lynching people because they are acting suspicious or because we have clues about them. Killing someone we have no information about would be the foolish thing to do, we may be killing a blue role without knowing it. I know, and agree entirely. I was just supporting it, to an extent, because iLoveKTF is suggesting lynching an inactive who will be mod killed in a day anyway (effectively throwing the mayor lynch away, in the hopes of not lynching a townie/someone contributing). Lynching someone suspicious should always be done over lynching someone inactive, however, we're at a point where we don't have much to go on at all. | ||
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On May 18 2009 17:02 teks wrote: What is also interesting to note is that "L" is one of Loe's most successfull books, so my guess is that L is the connection to Erlend Loe, perhaps resulting in a fake clue. Actually, I'm a big Loe-fan, and was very surprised to see him being mentioned. I've read almost all of his books (apart from the children books), and even wrote a paper on him in school. There is no way for Pyrr to know this about me though, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. Also, the pictures in his children books are in this style: http://mediaserver-2.vuodatus.net/g/12839/643950.jpg - not really fitting to any of our profiles. I'm not going to tell anyone to disregard this clue, it MAY definately point to a person from Norway, but I'm rather leaning towards L being the connector here (even though he's not playing in this one). Could someone more experienced than me tell me if there's possible that Pyrr deliberately placed clues here that does not lead to anyone of interest? If it's not possible, I'll shut my cakehole and go with you on this one, Jimtudor :p About the election, I'm glad to see we already have a couple of candidates. It'll probably be hard for people to trust anyone in this game as it's mostly concisting of new players, so I think it's going to take quite the campaign to gain influence in this game (although bandwagoning could also come very quickly I guess). Red Herrings have been played in previous games, but I believe this is Pyrry's first time running a game, so if he'll do it is yet to be seen. | ||
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On May 18 2009 17:50 Jayme wrote: The whole mod killing thing adds a different dynamic to this game really. Before it was okay to just lynch some inactive fool in lue of no hints because it was safe and even if you hit a blue... an inactive blue is pretty wasteful. Good for drawing fire and nothing else. The day 1 clues are completely ambiguous at best, with only the car horn seeming oddly placed for me. Well that and decaffeinated coffee.. WHO DRINKS THAT!? Day 2 would help immensely with cross checking potential, have to see when the sleepy people wake up to see how they react. Not many people around yet. Stirring his coffee with a drumstick is a bit odd, however, from Qatol's game Chuiu and Pyrrhuloxia were sitting on the deck of the cruise ship playing a leisurely game of cards and sipping decaf coffee. So, it's very possible he just has a thing for decaf coffee, pointless as it may be.  | ||
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On May 18 2009 18:41 Pawsom wrote: Read all the posts and thought over what people mentioned was suspicious. The only thing that I really think might be on the right track is what JimTudor said about Norwegian players. Theres not much to go by on day 1 and it seems pyrr could use something like this without giving away too much. I was thinking about nominating Jim as our sheriff/mayor, but the more I think about it, the more I think he may just be stretching too far out on a limb with the clue, in order to make people think what i already said in the above paragraph. This short display of brillance would probly gain him sheriff/mayor and if he mafia put the mafia in a strong position. I'd vote for Ilovektf; i'm more confident he's a genuine towny, but I don't like his lynch inactive on day 1 idea. For now, I have decided to not cast a vote for an official yet, but I may change and vote after thinking about it later. Anyways its 5:41am and I need to sleep I'll be on tomorrow and hopefully there will be more posts to read1 Edit: just fixed a small grammar error, did not edit content Editing your posts. DO NOT EDIT YOUR POSTS FOR ANY REASON. Mods can see and will reveal your edits, it makes you look suspicious, and is not allowed. We all make grammar errors, and as embarrassing as it may sometimes be, edits are strictly forbidden. | ||
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On May 19 2009 06:43 l10f wrote: Just go with the flow and vote for Shikyo =] Bandwagon voting is never good, however, I'll agree that his campaign is the best. | ||
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And the main problem with the DT checking the other candidates, is it wastes their limited amount of rolechecks, with no reasoning behind rolechecking them other than "they ran for mayor and didn't win". I'm not saying it's a bad idea, because we can almost always assume that mafia wants a position of power, and thus is likely to run for mayor. If we rolecheck and get two townies, we can lynch the mayor, as he's likely mafia. But that all seems like a very risky way of doing things. We use up rolechecks on iffy suspects, and if worse came to worse, we lynch a townie mayor because the other candidates came up townie. | ||
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The real question is: Is mafia in a role of power now, did they even run, or were they not elected. Of course we should look at clues, and try to match them up with any player, but I think we should especially pay attention to future killings and see if any of them match up to the players that ran for mayor. | ||
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On May 21 2009 15:26 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: "Regarding flashy salesman, maybe http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Koopie because the picture of Peach is kind of flashy, or because the signature is "Red. Green. Blue.", flashy colors, but, maybe not." Koopie changed his prof after clues though. Wait, he did what? Changing your profile / sig / possible clue material after the game begins, whether you are mafia or not. You'll be caught and just look more suspicious anyway. | ||
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And it looks suspicious. The only reason I could see someone adding to a profile after a game started, from a blank profile, would be a mafia trying to add some random crap, so he hopefully doesn't have an easy to guess clue based off his name. | ||
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On May 23 2009 19:18 teks wrote: Ok, it's finger pointing time. I've been working on a case for a while now, I didn't want to say anything until I had gathered more information, so please bear with me as I bring up old quotes and old arguments to try to form a behavior pattern of the suspect. I accuse zeks of being the Godfather. I think that he is the person who is organizing the mafia kills, which would also make sense seeing how he is one of the most active persons in the thread. I'm going to divide this post into three parts, in order not to flood the entire page. I'm going to focus on behavior, because the voting patterns up till now are too weak to rely on, and there doesn't seem to be any blatantly obvious clues pointing to zeks (which would explain why he is taking risks). If needed be, I can bring these two points in to strengthen my case later on, as I do think there is SOME material to work with in those two departments as well. WARNING! This post is going to be lengthy, but know that I worked alot on this, so I ask that you atleast skim through it to see if I'm onto something here. It COULD be vital for the town's gameplan. + Show Spoiler [Behavior] + The first piece of information I want to convey is two PM's I received from zeks before the night to day 2. These are unedited, except that I added a (nick) in front of each PM so it's easier to see who's saying what. This should, like any PM history, be read from the bottom to the top. + Show Spoiler [PM conversation] + (teks) I don't TRUST anyone to be honest. Not even you But I'm pretty positive that Shikyo isn't mafia. And JeeJee has had me convinced. Jury is still out on Jimtudor I guess - I don't trust him yet. ----------------------------------------- (zeks) Original Message: do you trust all 3 of - Shikyo, JimTudor and JeeJee? ----------------------------------------- (teks) Original Message: atm I'm suspecting Foolishness, Phelix and softer. Mostly based on laying low and votes though, it's hard to judge them with the low activity level we are having at the moment.. I really hope we manage to draw people out. ----------------------------------------- (zeks) Original Message: who are you suspecting behaviour wise? At first, I was kind of wondering why he was asking me this all of a sudden, we hadn't talked any at all in PM's prior to this. But I had nothing to hide, I layed out who I suspected, he got the information, and I never heard from him again. What do I make of this? zeks thinks I'm a possible medic. He was asking around (it would be entirely possible that more of you received the same kind of PM's) to find out who the medics were least likely to be protecting. So in my case, I was suspicious of Foolishness, Phelix, softer and Jimtudor. Then what happens? Oh yeah, softer and Jimtudor dies. Yes, my suspicions were WAY off, but that's not the case here. If I was going to go on a stretch and assume that I was the only one he talked to, I would think that either Foolishness or Phelix got hit too that night, but it was either blocked by one of them being a veteran, or a medic. I'm thinking the first. Or maybe they just chose someone else randomly in order to not bring up too much suspicion, or they stacked hit's on one of the targets (Jimtudor?). Either way, two of my suspects died that night. I'm going to go over his posts now to point out any inconsistencies, irregularities or possible mafia behavior. + Show Spoiler [Quotes Part 1] + zeks' first post was made on page 8. On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: I don't agree with lynching an inactive the first day. Since this is a newbie friendly game, those with blue roles might be more inclined to stay lurking since they know they have an important role and don't want to die so early. Oh what do you know, he's against lynching an inactive. What a surprise. What I have been seeing with new players is that his scenario doesn't fit at all. The inactive ones are, as I see it, usually townies who are disappointed in not getting a role, and feeling that they don't have anything to do, so they get bored with it. The new players who end up with a blue role tend to be more eager and active because they feel that they mean something. On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: I remember when I was a medic (many times) all I thought about was staying alive so I can at least be able to contribute with protections each night - thus I stayed quiet and only communicated through PMs. I probably should have gone over his behavior in previous games before making this post, but I haven't. I'm sorry. If anyone wants to do that go right ahead. Either way, that sure isn't how he's playing now. I'm assuming this means that he has changed attitude, and no longer feels that this is the best way to play a blue role, if that is the case I would think that he, as a useful town aligned person, would encourage the new blue players to stand up for themselves, not just explaining why they would be inactive. The other possibility is of course, that he isn't a blue. Then, in his first post, he also made his statement that he would be running for mayor. His plans are not anything spectacular, but there are tidbits that can be discussed here, for instance the fact that he is opposing the vigi plan to get a confirmed townie: On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: I think Crate brought up a great point about the trouble of getting a confirmed towny. The vigi plan has some flaws though. The vigi can't roleclaim and announce his hit to the whole town because a mafia could just do the same. I noticed in the day post that the mafia don't have names. So we wouldn't really know if a new vigi has come out and performed his announced hit. So he is basically disregarding the whole idea because the mafia doesn't have names (why would they have names? Have they ever had names in any previous games?). He is completely disregarding the fact that if a red player was hit, only a vigi could be behind it, and that vigi should have no problems with both pointing out the clues leading to himself, and get the support of the people he reached out to prior to his hit. What I make of this is that he is against getting a confirmed townie through this method, instead of pointing out the flaws and suggesting another way of doing it, he just denies the whole idea. Next, he is opposed to getting a confirmed townie through medic protection, too. He states the following: On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: Nowhere does it say that the medic will know the role of the person he has saved. I agree that it is more likely for a medic to save a mafia hit than a vigi hit, but as a medic in previous games myself, it's pretty hard to judge who is going to get hit every night (that or I was a horrible medic lol). Also, in the less likely case of saving a mafia from a vigi - the medic may mistrust the saved mafia for a good guy. It's true that if a medic protected a mafia from a vigi hit, there would be no way to know if that target was mafia or not. But he is completely disregarding the fact that vigis can't hit on night 1. He, as an experienced player, should know this. He is also going on about how hard it is to block a hit, blabla, we all know that. Obviously this plan wasn't meant to be a "hey let's just block a mafia hit, then we have our confirmed townie!" but rather IF a medic blocked a mafia hit ON THE FIRST NIGHT, that medic would be safe to talk to the townie in question. So zeks goes on to form his confirmed townie plan based on the supposed flaws of the medic and vigi plans: On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: In the case that we do not get a successful block, then we should move on to another plan that I am suggesting: plan C. c) Detective role-check Depending on how far we get with the medic plan, we might have to consider the ultimatum which is to have a DT rolecheck someone - which would be the safest way, unless you manage to unluckily land on the godfather; then theres no way back. The chance of landing on the godfather is slim though, so I deem this the safest plan and most viable after using trying the medic plan. What a surprise! He wants a DT to rolecheck "someone" and then roleclaim "safely" to that person. Now, who could this trustable person be.. Hmm.. Maybe he should just nominate himself, since he was the one coming with the idea, that won't be suspicious at all, right? We'll get back to this later, since this is a story that continues later in the thread. What is interesting is that he mentions this in his very first post in the thread. Clearly focusing on what he thinks is the best idea, since the chance of landing on the godfather is slim. That makes the end of his election speech. The rest of it was the same things the other candidates promised, let's kill all red and use double lynches blabla. So the thread goes on, and zeks encourages people to read his election speech. He also helps the town by making an inactive list, but this is something literally anyone can do, so I'm getting the feeling that he did this to show the town that he can contribute, and to warrant voting on him. If he was the mafia candidate, why did he not get elected, or why did he not get close? I think that the mafia either waited to see if he could draw any votes (which he tried desperately by several times asking people to read his platform), or they threw him a few votes to try to start a bandwagon. Neither of the cases worked out for them, so they basically abandoned ship when it failed, that's why you didn't see him getting 6 mafia votes. I still believe that one of the election candidates were mafia, and since Jimtudor turned blue, and I so far have no reason to suspect Shikyo or JeeJee, this all adds up. + Show Spoiler [Quotes Part 2] + On May 20 2009 02:49 zeks wrote: To be safe I suggest we try to find clues that may point to the inactives so we can have a better shot at hitting a red. I am also supportive if we were to lynch Jayme based on clues. Captain Obvious to the rescue! Again he is "contributing" to the town by stating something we all know already. Of course we should go on clues in addition to lynching an inactive. The fact that he wanted to lynch Jayme also corresponds with the Godfather view, since he turned out to be a townie. After that, he makes his first (in my opinion) real contribution to the town, by cooking up some clues pointing to therapy. My theory is that he saw the Jayme case as sure-fire enough that he would be lynched on day 2, because he already had so many clues attached to him, that he decided to bring in someone new. This is not any evidence by itself, but therapy being a townie also adds up to the equation. Then, the medic list are being formed. zeks is placed on all of them, despite not really contributing to the town apart from running for mayor and forming a clue pattern to therapy. Good job! You had me fooled as well. I guess if there is anyone who should be accused of posting loads of fluff it should be you, not Shikyo. On May 21 2009 03:14 zeks wrote: I just hope that the medics are listening right now and hopefully they won't deviate from the plan. Of course you would hope that, you wouldn't want the medics to protect your targets, after all. On May 21 2009 13:43 zeks wrote: We only had two deaths tonight, softer and Jimtudor. Obviously there are only two possible scenarios: a) Stacked hits on either softer or Jim. b) Someone got saved. - I think this is more likely, and in this case, I believe someone on the medic list got saved tonight. No. Obviously, you are lying. As an experienced player, you knew about the possibility that a veteran got hit, and that it would be more likely than stacking hits on softer or Jim, who basically hadn't contributed at all. If anyone were to be stacked it would have been someone like softer or Judge, or even you. Luckily, crate calls him on it instantly, so no harm done. Dun dun dun! This brings us to my punchline. The continuation of his DT rolecheck plan. + Show Spoiler [DT Rolecheck Plan] + On May 21 2009 23:52 zeks wrote: I think the vigi plan has just too many flaws. The medic plan is viable and I really believe that someone got saved last night versus a vet taking a hit. Now, how far the town web has grown I don't know. But if things get desperate and still nothing gets done, then we should go with the DT rolecheck. I think this is probably the safest plan but obviously has a great drawback of losing one rolecheck. I am willing to step up for examination, that is, you'd have to believe in me not being Godfather. And so far there have been no clues against me afaik, but of course I'm not free from suspicion one bit. Should we try this? Up to you two DT's to decide. (Of course, if this does happen I hope only one of you rolechecks me) Basically this is a repeat of his plan in the election platform. He is probably correct that there are no clues pointing to him, but the mere idea of suggesting himself for this idea makes this that more suspicious. If he were to suggest the idea, then let's say, have the town vote on who they wanted to act as the mouthpiece, maybe it wouldn't be so blatantly obvious what is going on here. zeks has that much belief in the town not thinking he is the godfather that he is nice enough to step up! Aww, doesn't that get your eyes wet. So nice of him! Once again, he fooled me, but thankfully there were other more experienced players who quickly figured out the risks of his plan. chaoser, Judge, Shikyo, props to you! This is going to be the end of my behavior analysis. I could go on by talking about his consistent denial of the vigi plan, which at the moment is one of the best plans we got, but this post is lengthy enough as is. So that's it. By sharing my case with you, I ask that zeks is removed from the medic list while we decide whether or not my case is strong enough. Hopefully we can come to an agreement before the night is over, and if needed be, he can be placed back on the list. I am basically laying my spot in this game on the table here, if zeks turns out innocent I take full responsibility and will let you lynch me if you see it fit. But do know that I wouldn't accuse an active and experienced player without gathering what I see as plenty of proof. This is all up to you, town, what do you think of my case? I think this is a very solid behavioral analysis, and I honestly hope that it turns out to be accurate in the end. I haven't really contributed too much, because I'm terrible at both clue analysis, and behavioral analysis, however, I'd like to add that there are currently 5 mafia kills (including the mods), and if you were to assume that it's 1 mafia per kill (which is likely, given that people die at the same time in some of the posts) and Pyrry is rotating through the mafia (meaning that a mafia won't get a second clue until every other mafia has a clue), then there are currently clues pointing at 5/7 mafia. That means that if Zeks is mafia, there's a very very good chance that there's already a clue pointed at him. So, I checked his profile. Not really much there. He's from Canada, has "@ University of Waterloo", and states that winning is the only thing. I couldn't match any of those to any of the clues, so I took the next step and googled his name. And there we go. http://www.zeks.com/ Compressed Air solutions. Without warning, his windshield shattered and a wave of glass ripped through LTT's face. Passing out from blood loss, LTT's head slumped, sounding a horn that would not be heard in time. With no previous warning (meaning LTT likely didn't see anything), his windshield shattered in, with considerable force (to have ripped into his face like that). I'm honestly on the fence about this clue pointing towards Zeks. It's so very obvious that this could have been caused by a blast of compressed air, and that's why I'm on the fence. Day 1 clues are supposed to be hard, nearly impossible to solve, but this was so easy. The only reason I could see Pyrry using a clue this easy (if it does in fact point to Zeks), is that it's a noobie game, and not very much was expected of us. So take it as you will, with a grain of salt. I was merely linking a possible clue with someone suspected because their behavior is pretty far off. | ||
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