|
It seems, every time I play a Terran that timing pushes, I'm not able to keep that 3rd expo or just lose everything - in other words, I get owned +_+.
Without a replay (on the new computer; I will post reps later if i can), I will try to explain how my usual game goes.
I usually start off with 2 gate range, or 2gate range + obs. Now the terran usually FD's, or goes 2factory tank -> expo. Making sure he has that second cc, I put up my first expo while putting up citadel (still on 2 gates, i usually cut dragoons during this time), and get the second expo when money allows. I add gates, get leg speed. I see 4-6 factories, he pushes out and he engages. I lose all my dragoons/zealots, only killing vultures, leaving most of the tanks. Now i either lose the third expo, or he just pushes into my main with mainly vulture reinforcements.
Since, after all, it is a timing push, I've tried just going 1 expo and madly powering, adding gates off that 1 expo, and trying to match the Terran. This doesn't seem that great for me either, as when he pushes out, he takes his second expo, and he's able to add couple more factories.
Any help or insights on my problem will be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.
|
Canada7170 Posts
Are you getting a robo at any point? Because observers should really help in your fight against mines.
Are you getting a Tarchives for storm? It's also very useful.
Without a rep, it's difficult to say, but I'm trying to throw out different tech ideas.
If you post a rep, I'll try to give more insight. Are you transferring them from the other computer or do you need to just get on B.net and play some games?
|
When you see him moving out, use your goons to try and engage him before he sieges his tanks. Attack, pick off a tank or 2, and move back. He'll unsiege and keep moving forward. Repeat this and hopefully you'll kill off a few tanks without losing much at all. Then just fully engage him with everything you have, while still macroing of course.
|
i'm going to post what gets posted in almost every new strategy thread
sounds like you're getting outplayed
post a rep
|
i need to play the games ._.
i just got back and i can't find my replays involving timing pushes -_-;
on another note, if YOU can post replays with timing pushes i'd also greatly appreciate it!
|
err first thing you want to remember is not to just engage a battle v the terran if you dont have to....you want to make him seige and unseige as much as possible...but not actually engage in a full-fledged attack until you greatly out-number him...this will not happen if you attack right when he pushes out because he has been building units the whole time you have been doing your 3rd expo+ gates....your first problem is prolly not getting your 3rd expo fast enough i would say so everything is slow....2nd problem is probably your not making sure to build probes non-stop until you see he is about to push out(once you realize he is about to push out cut probes so you can build nothing but units) getting a shuttle with 4 zealots or even dts if your crazy helps a ton...i also feel have 2 shuttles 1 with zealots 1 with reavers is VERY strong v a timing push....but thats just my personal preference...when the terran pushes out you need to have your units right outside his base to slow him down as much as possible...but try to lose as few units as possible like i said early just try to make him seige up and then move back....if he doesnt seige right away i would try to kill all the vults then move back becuz the tanks will kill you...this is just a couple things i can tell you spare of the moment when you post a rep i can be more specific
|
On July 26 2007 13:22 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
i'm going to post what gets posted in almost every new strategy thread
sounds like you're getting outplayed
post a rep
err its not necessarily he is being outplayed becuz in his situation it just sounds like they are both macroing...he may be being outmacroed but that is very different than being outplayed...he may just not understand how to stop a timing push also=-O
|
i forgot something also you need to remember that timing pushes sometimes are just to strong to stop at first....and losing an expo IS acceptable....in other words....dont feel you HAVE to use all your units to attack the push just because you will lose an expo...that is why it is good to expand to a different main or an expand that is on a different attack route...it makes the terran have to choose to either attack your main (which isnt what they will do most of the time) or attack your expansion that is away from your main...you want to remember to move all the probes out of this base before they attack if you see that you cant stop there push so you lose as little as possible (a nexus is only 400 but losing 12-15 probes with it is much more costly)...at this point you should be macroing from 7-9 gates and a decision comes for you to either counter while they attack your base ( while you expand to a different location) or get ready to flank there push when they try to move it back to there base
|
hopefully i helped you out a little bit
|
i play my friend a lot and usually he just 1fact FE(no matter what map) and sometimes he just does these 6marine 4vult 2 tank pushes. and sometimes he would bring 5-6 scv's too. what i noticed about timing pushes is you need to scout constantly, and engage him when he goes to your base, if hes planting mines catch those vults etc. you should already have 3-4 gates making and a citadel. the issue is, do NOT let him push you inside of your base, because then itd be pretty much over. i might have a couple of reps on my comp on beating this. PM me.
|
On July 26 2007 13:37 GoSuPlAyEr wrote:
i forgot something also you need to remember that timing pushes sometimes are just to strong to stop at first....and losing an expo IS acceptable....in other words....dont feel you HAVE to use all your units to attack the push just because you will lose an expo...that is why it is good to expand to a different main or an expand that is on a different attack route...it makes the terran have to choose to either attack your main (which isnt what they will do most of the time) or attack your expansion that is away from your main...you want to remember to move all the probes out of this base before they attack if you see that you cant stop there push so you lose as little as possible (a nexus is only 400 but losing 12-15 probes with it is much more costly)...at this point you should be macroing from 7-9 gates and a decision comes for you to either counter while they attack your base ( while you expand to a different location) or get ready to flank there push when they try to move it back to there base
Follow not in the footsteps of the carlo....
|
United States20661 Posts
On July 26 2007 13:28 GoSuPlAyEr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2007 13:22 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
i'm going to post what gets posted in almost every new strategy thread
sounds like you're getting outplayed
post a rep err its not necessarily he is being outplayed becuz in his situation it just sounds like they are both macroing...he may be being outmacroed but that is very different than being outplayed...he may just not understand how to stop a timing push also=-O
I fail to see how being outmacroed =/= being outplayed. You can be outplayed in many ways; I consider losing the macro war to be one of them..?
|
On July 26 2007 13:28 GoSuPlAyEr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2007 13:22 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
i'm going to post what gets posted in almost every new strategy thread
sounds like you're getting outplayed
post a rep err its not necessarily he is being outplayed becuz in his situation it just sounds like they are both macroing...he may be being outmacroed but that is very different than being outplayed...he may just not understand how to stop a timing push also=-O
Macroing isn't considered PLAYING?! If he can't stop a timing push, I would consider that being outplayed.
On July 26 2007 13:37 GoSuPlAyEr wrote:
i forgot something also you need to remember that timing pushes sometimes are just to strong to stop at first....and losing an expo IS acceptable....in other words....dont feel you HAVE to use all your units to attack the push just because you will lose an expo...that is why it is good to expand to a different main or an expand that is on a different attack route...it makes the terran have to choose to either attack your main (which isnt what they will do most of the time) or attack your expansion that is away from your main...you want to remember to move all the probes out of this base before they attack if you see that you cant stop there push so you lose as little as possible (a nexus is only 400 but losing 12-15 probes with it is much more costly)...at this point you should be macroing from 7-9 gates and a decision comes for you to either counter while they attack your base ( while you expand to a different location) or get ready to flank there push when they try to move it back to there base
No, losing an expansion to a timing push is not acceptable.
A nexus is only 400, true, but it also costs a long time to build as well as being unable to mine from that particular area during that time. You make it sound so trivial, losing a nexus.
If I was attacking an expansion and faced with two choices: killing the nexus or killing lots of probes, I'd definitely go for killing the nexus.
|
if you know he is going FD, go ahead and double expo after you stop the push. he won't be able to do anything in the next 2 minutes with 1 factory. then get robo/obs and citadel, and add 4 gates. if he cuts scvs, you cut probes. you''ll be able to stop his "timing push" ez.
|
On July 26 2007 13:14 dO_ov wrote:
It seems, every time I play a Terran that timing pushes, I'm not able to keep that 3rd expo or just lose everything - in other words, I get owned +_+.
Without a replay (on the new computer; I will post reps later if i can), I will try to explain how my usual game goes.
I usually start off with 2 gate range, or 2gate range + obs. Now the terran usually FD's, or goes 2factory tank -> expo. Making sure he has that second cc, I put up my first expo while putting up citadel (still on 2 gates, i usually cut dragoons during this time), and get the second expo when money allows. I add gates, get leg speed. I see 4-6 factories, he pushes out and he engages. I lose all my dragoons/zealots, only killing vultures, leaving most of the tanks. Now i either lose the third expo, or he just pushes into my main with mainly vulture reinforcements.
Since, after all, it is a timing push, I've tried just going 1 expo and madly powering, adding gates off that 1 expo, and trying to match the Terran. This doesn't seem that great for me either, as when he pushes out, he takes his second expo, and he's able to add couple more factories.
Any help or insights on my problem will be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.
i don't think you need citadel that early, usually forge/citadel timing is after 3rd nex
|
Maybe a shuttle would help (after obs maybe?)
If ur micro is ok, you could try to contain him at his choke point, then slowly move back to your nat. Manually target the vult first, then the tank, then rines/scv.
|
pardon my ignorance but what exactly is the definition of a timing push? i see the phrase thrown around a lot since i returned to starcraft but i'm still pretty fuzzy as to what a timing push looks like. i've been afraid to post a thread asking because it seems like i'm bound to get flamed for asking such a noob question  google and the search function doesn't seem to help much because it seems like everyone assumes you know what it means
|
Dont cut goons, get a citdel off 2 gate, then get a nexus... duh?
Why did no one mention this to him? Either DT drop +add gates or skip the citadel or get increase gates and add in a shuttle before expanding if you are gonna do that.
Since you already have obs/robo,
you can go reaver (fe fast expanded didn't he? force him to make turrets and slow down his macro) while expanding.
Increase gates add in a shuttle, and thin him down quick a little before expanding again. The more tanks a terran gathers, the power increases dramatically.
- The short answer is, get gateways faster and make more units.
|
From what I'm reading, you're not getting your 3rd expo fast enough and then he runs you over right after you get your 3rd expo up. If you go 2 gate -> obs and he FEs, you need to either damage him and slow him down with your superior tech (expand into reaver or something) or double expand to counter. Expanding only once yourself isn't going to put you on the same foothold as him, especially if you didn't put any pressure on him, you need to be up on expos.
|
On July 26 2007 16:49 Zanno wrote:pardon my ignorance but what exactly is the definition of a timing push? i see the phrase thrown around a lot since i returned to starcraft but i'm still pretty fuzzy as to what a timing push looks like. i've been afraid to post a thread asking because it seems like i'm bound to get flamed for asking such a noob question google and the search function doesn't seem to help much because it seems like everyone assumes you know what it means
As I understand it, a timing push is where you build your game plan around attacking at a certain time, sacrificing some SCV production/expansions in order to have maximum attacking power at that point. Differs from the "standard" play where a terran will just get 3 or 4 bases and go for 200/200 (a "macro war").
I guess your standard timing push in TvP is 4 facs ASAP after taking your natural against a double-expanding toss, or 5/6 facs building to presumably 120+ supply before moving out and kicking ass. The former gives toss less time to react, while the latter will just give you a bigger army. I generally follow my 4-fac push with a 3rd base pretty quick regardless of the outcome, while 6 fac play I'll do my best to end it on two bases. Better Terrans may be able to give a more accurate explanation 
Edit: I guess the reasoning behind it is that you make the most of having a stronger production and weaker economy vs his stronger economy and weaker production by massing up, then hit him just before it's about to switch to him having a stronger economy AND stronger production (since this will be the point where you have the biggest army relative to his). That's my take on it anyway.
Edit2: Nada's 2fac is another interesting example, although that falls more under the category of "timing rush." It differs from the average 2fac build by hitting somewhat later, but with a larger and better-equipped army. Effective against a fast-expanding toss from what I've seen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
