Newbie Student Mafia XVII: Fullmetal Edition

On November 16 2015 06:13 geript wrote:

Read other VE games. He's really easy to read when he gets semi active. Part of it is based in the fact that VE and I scum hunt rather differently. He takes on an egocentric (in the technical sense not in the asshole sense) view of other players; i.e. How he acts when he's scum and applies it to them. So when you see him jump on certain things in an accusatory way (especially when he's not trying to assream them) he's almost always town.

On November 16 2015 06:24 Trfel wrote:
VisceraEyes

VisceraEyes makes two posts showing suspicion of The Shining.
+ Show Spoiler +
After these posts, VisceraEyes treats The Shining like he is town, specifically by telling The Shining how to properly play as town.
+ Show Spoiler +
Furthermore, Eversince's post on FarahBlackwing has a very large logical flaw, in that The Shining hadn't posted at the time. Eversince is comparing a townread based on actual posts to a vote with zero reason from this game, which does not work. VisceraEyes knows much better than this.

This isn't VisceraEyes pushing The Shining, this is VisceraEyes reading incorrectly and flailing wildly at The Shining with words that don't match his stance.

On November 16 2015 06:28 geript wrote:
That trfel post is really, really terrible.

On November 16 2015 23:01 NocturneMage wrote:
I have no problem with Trfel's read on VE btw, I don't know how VE can say in #263 "with so many having posted" not knowing how he plays otherwise, that is a pretty decent way to take attention off himself and out of context just reading that at face value. The next few posts in response to Shining are meh.

I know geript is using meta to read VE but I'm not really understanding how he can say that about Shining without making reads on others that have posted. I'll keep reading though...

On November 17 2015 03:06 disformation wrote:


Should add at least a bit of reasoning:
All three are in dire need of contributing more and have exhibited a bit of suspicious actions.
(MoosyDoosy buggering off without explaining his reads, Trefel explained a few posts above and FF being lurky as hell, with minimal contributions.)

Other thoughts:
Eversince will probably just get a pass from me for D1 because of the surgeries along with some points for trying to be here and do stuff.
I didn't mind Farah, but want to see more in the near future.
Still a bit waffly (btw: for ppl that don't know me: I am The Waffleboy) on The Shining, but he is a town lean for me atm.
Also waffly about Breshke.
Kinda liked scotts entry, so townlean unless he just vanishes for the rest of the day. I know scott is a low volume poster and I have a bit of a problem with that, since it often leads to me feeling like I don't see a proper read progression.

NocturneMage, geript, ritoky and VE town.

On November 17 2015 05:05 Trfel wrote:
VisceraEyes (again)
Note: Eversince will be addressed in a following post

1. On Eversince and FarahBlackwing
Eversince's initial post, voting for The Shining
Eversince's later post explaining the clear flaw in the above argument:
VisceraEyes responds to this is a way that doesn't make sense at all.

Before my case on VisceraEyes and the second post above from Eversince, VisceraEyes posted these posts:

These three posts show that VisceraEyes is treating Eversince's first post seriously. He says that he likes Eversince's argument, and that he's townreading Eversince and scumreading FarahBlackwing because of it. Furthermore, he uses this repeatedly in his argument with The Shining, which apparently leads to a scumread of The Shining, shown by this post (among others):

After my case and Eversince's post, showing that Eversince's early vote on FarahBlackwing had no basis, VisceraEyes says this:Ok, so he wasn't being serious earlier. Not only did he make a joke, but then he defended his joke several times, to the point of scumreading The Shining for it.

I just can't believe this.

---

2. General
For the moment, let's assume that VisceraEyes was in fact joking with his first series of posts, and let's ignore that this makes no sense.

VisceraEyes receives a bunch of town reads after he leaves, notably from geript and ritoky.

Notice how VisceraEyes leaves in the same minute that geript posts a strong townread of him.

VisceraEyes made three posts upon return, shown below:
+ Show Spoiler [VisceraEyes' Posts] +First post is useless and strange. Why does he answer a question directed to someone else, when he's clearly not really sure?

VisceraEyes' next two posts are his thoughts about the game, and the only thoughts about the game that he's posted, assuming that his earlier posts were in jest. He says that he likes most of the people who have been posting (ok, so who doesn't he like then? not useful), and that he doesn't like Fecalfeast.

I personally don't really like this Fecalfeast read, but whatever, it's sort of up for interpretation. But this is his ONLY read.

Note that he spends a fair amount of this post responding to the townreads he's received. He's very aware of them, and this shows in his play. His activity tanked, he's not being useful or constructive, he made the terrible statement "I like most people who posted so far", which a perfect example of useless and lazy play.

---

3. Response to meta reads
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 17 2015 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Trfel stop failing and find mafia.

On November 17 2015 07:38 Trfel wrote:
Sorry, I didn't mean your thoughts on VisceraEyes' stance on Fecalfeast, I was looking for your thoughts on VisceraEyes and Fecalfeast (two separate reads).

I don't really understand the whole 7 thing at all. You know that geript is a strong scum player, so why wouldn't he want attention to be paid to his reads? Is geript a player who hides in a corner as mafia?
Yes, he did.

On November 17 2015 08:11 MoosyDoosy wrote:

Posts like this make Farah Mafia.

And NM is town.

On November 17 2015 08:23 FarahBlackwing wrote:
No Moos you are just an someone who refuses to play in any game I've signed up with you in. If you can't be assed to explain your one scum read to the thread when people are trying to evaluate you whats the point.

So frustrating

On November 17 2015 08:38 FarahBlackwing wrote:
Then your vote where your idea is instead of doing the opposite of what you said you would do.

And not sure what you are referring to with the like Damdred thing and putting my gender in quotation marks.

I really do not care if I am eliminated at this stage.

On November 17 2015 11:57 MoosyDoosy wrote:

Because I hate town. Next quesiton, yes.

On November 17 2015 09:19 Trfel wrote:
The problem is that he knows this, and he knows that people will say this......

Ugh, this is so frustrating.

On November 17 2015 09:25 Breshke wrote:


It's mostly less active people.

Something is wrong about mooseys outburst like he HAS rolled scum here before he makes it sound like he never has. He also entered a game where its more likely to roll town than mafia and is having a tantrum that he got the more likely option. Also in the game he was mafia he overreacted to rayn dying (not being saved by the doctor) which was obviously fake and this feels a lot like that. So i don't think anyone should be giving him a pass for having a cry.

FF still being lazy so would lynch.

Scott aswell. I don't think it is out of the ordinary for scott to not be around for large portions of some phases but when he is around he usually has a big thought dump. He didn't attempt anything like that this game which feels scummy from him. He is lean scum but I wouldn't lynch him over moosey or fecal at this stage.

I also am waiting for VE to be around again.

On November 17 2015 09:26 Fecalfeast wrote:
Honestly Farah's filter is pretty nice to look at. I mean, the lynch list is kinda butt because I am leaning town on bresh and am fairly certain that I'm town but being wrong is allowed.

Is there a case on farah or anything that I'm blatantly missing?

On November 24 2015 15:48 geript wrote:
From a town perspective, there were a few major things that were missed by the newer players in general some of it I posted here as TalkingDead, but there's one or two other things I wanted to say.

First off, stop trying to wifom if person X would do action Y as mafia. I saw it a bunch (even from vets like Damdred). It's really, really bad and really, really stupid. You'll almost never know the correct answer because you don't have all the information. Digging and thinking about this is something that got you guys consistently onto the wrong track.

Second, this didn't come to me until later but when I get NK'd on N1 and you guys lynch Breshke on D2 there's some good NK analysis to be done. Scum obviously aren't targeting me for being blue; I've dropped no hints about it. I haven't played "blue" in any regard. Scum is obviously killing me for a reason. When a veteran player is killed on N1 when he's not in control of the thread, he's almost always right about somebody because scum kill preference is Blue/confirmed town before people on track before good players before unlynchable players. While I hit the unlynchable good player benchmarks there's still VE and ritoky in the game who both imo hit those marks in general. I'm unlikely to be killed just because I'm right on Breshke. I don't have (and didn't have) enough thread pull to get him lynched on D1. So I'm probably onto 2 or more scum, so when I died heavily pushing both Trfel and Breshke that should be a great reason to flip Trfel.

Third, listen to what dead players said. When a player flips town (especially if they're an experienced player), what they spent time to write should be given a little extra weight. My meta reads were 100% correct this game; the only read I got wrong was on a skilled scum player (ritoky) and early on. I was hammering Trfel on very strong points (he was focused on superficial NAI shit, he hadn't made a good point, etc., etc. etc.); I was hammering on Breshke (meta). You guys looked at them but I think it was only NM who really strongly pushed either with new things. Dead players aren't necessarily right, but their opinions come from an honest place at least.

Fourth, stop looking at "moments in time" in a player. It doesn't matter who it is, there will always be points to find someone either scummy or towny. In a game of mafia, you can always make a reasonable case for whatever you look for. Look at the sum of a player's game. When you look at Trfel, he's pretty much spent the whole game trying to drag you into talking about useless shit and stagnate discussion in various ways. Ritoky was kinda the same way too. Breshke absolutely was. In general, town overall try to move the game forward somehow. Play the odds and focus on the forest instead of on the trees. There are "little moments" that are major (like ritoky not sheeping), but those should be built into a case on what the player is doing as a whole.

On November 18 2015 04:58 scott31337 wrote:
I just got back to see the votes starting on me.

When I flip town will you guys lynch Trfel tomorrow? He sure is reminding me of NSM IX I posted - so I'd appreciate you all re-evaluating him.

I'm pretty sure Ritoky, Geript, NM, and disinf are all town.

Make Moosy fucking do something, please.

Moosy/Breshke/Trfel are the lynch list right now, but I have a tingly feeling one of the vets has me/us fooled for now.