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The Modern Mechanic

Forum Index > SC2 General
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PoisonTV
Profile Joined July 2013
United Kingdom32 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-10 16:32:57
January 03 2014 23:24 GMT
#1
In an era of zerglings with mutalisks, marines with mines and colossi with stalkers, a lot of the old builds and compositions fall into oblivion. But one style seems never to give up fighting, with a history that goes back all the way to the first StarCraft game and then continuously being a part of the metagame, played by Transformers lovers and motor enthusiasts alike.

The mech style has always kind of existed in StarCraft, varying in degree of success depending on the current patch and game. In the current scene, there are a few players who are currently dominating with their signature style, some having up to 90 percent win ratio in the Terran vs Zerg match-up. This combined with the recent upset after several Terrans started beating very proficient Zerg players, perhaps most notably the Goody vs TLO games in the group stages of BCON Clash #2 where Goody with his extremely defensive (as others might call it – passive) style won him two games against the Team Liquid player, creating many outbursts of a broken style and abusive play. This really sparked my interest in a relatively unexplored field to me, creating the initial ground for this article.

So strap yourselves in. We are going to dive into the minds of some of the most successful mech players in the foreigner scene – who know what we will find?

The Men Behind the Metal

If you have ever watched the Zotac Cup or Go4SC2, you have most likely seen either Strelok or Goody playing there. Taking their time with each game (compared to many others who want to finish the early games quickly) they almost always get very far, and it’s not a rare sight to see major players from both the foreigner scene and the Korean one to fall to these titans. There are several aspects to why they succeed against some of the best players you can find – many don’t practice against very passive styles (also known as “turtle” style) as they are a very minor part of the playerbase in the higher tiers of the professional scene.

Even though most people in the foreigner scene know about Goody and Strelok, a lot of Korean players don’t, resulting in them playing like they would against any Code S or Code A mech style, with lots of aggression and timing pushes. Another problem is that both these players have a very different approach to the match-up – we see Strelok once in a while throwing in bio play as well as some very aggressive moves like mine drops and hellion harass, while Goody always stays passive, using his initial eight hellions and banshee to try to cause damage, and then moving back to the safety of his two base play.

Another game that really shows the strength of this style is the Hyun vs Goody game in the Go4SC2 on Akilon Wastes, where Goody held his four very safe bases (thanks to the structure of the map) while Hyun did all in his might to beat him down, using crazy tech switches involving over forty infestors, close to fifty mutalisks and almost forty swarm hosts. No matter what Hyun did, Goody always seemed to be fine with replacing the few units he lost and just wearing his opponent down. Needless to say, Goody ended up victorious.

American Steel

Not all players that hurt poor little insects with their transformable racecars with blue flames are European. Say hello to HTOMario! Playing for Love Your Girlfriend, an up and coming team with players all over the world (who are in the process of picking up Tassadar and Genius into their roster), Mario has been doing very well for himself. Being in top Grandmaster with mech as well as high Grandmaster as random, while having a stream with over two thousand followers and releasing replay packs for the public, he is one of the most well known mech players you will find.

Now, HTOMario is originally from Belgium, but lives in America with his family, making him one of the strongest, if not the strongest, mech player in the NA scene with very good results and a long history, all the way back to the first StarCraft game.

After getting in contact with him I managed to get a written interview, giving you a unique opportunity for a glance into the brain of a professional mech player. Enjoy!

Inside the Mind of the Mechanic

How would you define your style as a player?

Calculated I suppose, as an example the last 3 days I have been working on a TvP bio into mech style with several korean grand masters making step by step for every transition I can think of and how to take advantage of it. Then variations in case a person has seen it before so they have to guess which angle I am going for. I spend more time creating strategies then actually playing the ladder.

What advantage will that give you compared to someone like, let's say Kas, who play close to 2000 ladder games per season?

I still actually play a lot, I'm approaching 1000 for this season, however I think my advantage comes from when I get into a game the opponent doesn't know what I could go for. However I know every option they can. I feel like usually I have the upper hand.

So you would almost consider yourself to be "outside the meta"?

I do think I am outside of the meta game, I feel like I force my opponents to do the same or fold. Most of my losses are from people out playing or surprising me. That's probably why the majority of my games are really weird but so exciting.

Most people would claim that you are a "mech player", would you consider yourself to be precisely that, or is mech more of a tool to perform your desired strategies?

I started mech back in StarCraft 1, in wings of liberty I was mech and random. I suppose I am still the same. Recently I got to rank 28 grandmaster as random and it's fun to mess around and play with the races. At the end of the day though I always go back to mech play. Mech is my joy, my passion on starcraft. Random is for when I get burned out.

As you probably know better than most people – there are many styles of mech nowadays. You have Goody's super-defensive TvZ and Strelok’s much more aggressive builds. How aggressive are you do you think?

I focus on multi tasking in that regard, hellions moving around the map, dropships or tiny armies. I really like to harass and have map presence while I build up.

So you try to stay away from the really defensive styles. Any reason for that?

I used to be super defensive until I started watching Day[9]. I don't remember when it was but somewhere along the lines of early WOL he was describing mech as lots of little attacks that are hard to handle behind amassing the deadliest army imaginable. I liked the sound of that. I guess he really changed my style from Brood War to SC2. I tried it, loved it, stuck with it, still watch him almost every daily.

Some people have gotten upset over Goody's defensive style dominating TvZ with over 90% winrate, beating even TLO 2-0 with games lasting between an hour and and hour and a half. What do you think about this?

TvZ I think is probably the easiest matchup with mech. I have a 91% tvz on it myself. It's because the swarm host is the go to unit for Zerg and the raven is the counter. They force Terrans into the raven and when they have a critical mass they just die. The raven is like the ghost in Wings of Liberty before the snipe nerf. You wouldn't let them mass up a unit that could snipe your entire army and be at the minimum ok in every engagement. Well now they're pretty much handing the ravens to the Terrans by going swarm host. Even if they don't go swarm host, if you can amass a lot of ravens, it's really hard to break you. Don't get me wrong, I think Terran needs a unit to make them more cost efficient in the late game. But this I think might be too much.

So you think of it as a balance issue rather than a strategic issue?

I think it's easier to use 20+ ravens then it is to kill 20+ ravens as I have seen so far. You can kill it with a good tact hell yeah. But I guess a good comparison would be: it's easier to storm an army than to dodge storms. It's easier to hunter seeker an army than it is to dodge the seekers.

Any idea on how to counter these mass raven compositions from the Zerg player’s perspective?

Fungal them, viper abduct or go a massive corruptor army into a tech switch to ultras. The more air they have the better ultras are. The more ground the better wiping out the air is with like corruptor viper infestor.

You play for Love Your Girlfriend with a lot of really skilled people. What would you say your position in the team is? Are you a bit of a leader or more of a practice partner and team mate?

For the most part I can keep up with our Korean counterparts and really play with them. I don't think any of us are really the leaders besides management. We just play our hearts out and strive to be the best we can be. We spend a lot of time helping each other.

In the interview with Thunderdog e-Sports it sounded like you are a really global team with players from Europe, North America and Korea. How does it work to practice with these players across the servers with the huge time differentials?

Time can be an issue and when it is we share replays while we wait for a time to get together. We have so many awesome players though that I can find someone any day I want.

If I am correct you are currently what most people would call a “semi-professional player”, meaning that you play on a professional level but can’t live on just playing StarCraft?

I suppose so. I never really think about it. I make enough but I don't think I could live only off starcraft. I don't really like thinking about "pro", "semi-pro" or "retired" I just play my ass off and try to improve and have fun. Labels don't interest me.

What is your ultimate goal in StarCraft or as a gamer in general? If anything was possible.

It's always been a dream to stand at a major tournament and hold the big trophy. It motivates me thinking that as long as I do the best I can it might be possible. However I will settle for making an impact somewhere.

So what is the next step for you? What is the plan for 2014?

I guess seeing how I do in WCS. I've been really hitting the games hard and I want to try to make a dent. My goal is to qualify at least once before the end of the year.

So for the players out there that feel like they want to go mech themselves and become the next "HTOMario", what is your best tip for them?

Don't be an angry player, blame yourself always before balance or the other person. I hear people talking about map hackers or stream cheaters all the time. I get that thought like maybe once a month and throw it out like: "Doesn't matter". If I played better I could win, it's just a matter of doing so.

Many that want to become great at the game have a hard time with having a lot of other things going on, like families and work. How have you managed all this together with StarCraft?

I have a wife and two kids, I try to dedicate a lot of time to them. Just because you can't play 12 hours a day doesn't mean you can't practice efficiently. Don't be shy and accept that you aren't the best but that you can always do things to be better. Every game I join where I don't understand something I will ask my opponent, I am not shy on asking how others handle something or how they feel I should respond. Hell I ask players if they see holes in my builds. Watch streams, write down build orders really think about what you want to do. I remember getting major in a TvT, by far my worst matchup and I was having such a hard time. I told him if he answers 3 questions about the matchup i'd leave. We spent 10-15 minutes typing and I learned so much from that. that my confidence in the matchup has increased.

Thank you for the interview! Any shoutouts or last words to add? Team, people helping you out, sponsors or anything like that?

I would like to thank idea2create and Croupier Akademie 23 as well as my team. I don't think I would feel this confident about my play if it wasn't for LYGF so I'm really glad to be here.

Closing Time

As you can notice in the interview, ravens were brought up a lot, and it has become the go-to unit for Terran mech nowadays. There have been a lot of Zergs talking discussing this issue as it is very hard to counteract with a simple unit composition as there is no really simple solution as “x solves y”.

But mech isn’t unbeatable for Zerg players! There has been a lot of success with several different styles, and there are several weak spots to mech as well. All this and more will be brought up in an upcoming article.

Have any ideas to add to this? Post it in the comments and I will make sure to add it in the next one. I will also bring up games like the ones I talked about in this article and go more in depth on both how to play it and how to break it.

Thanks for reading, see you next time!

PoisonTV - Zeweig
http://www.twitch.tv/poisontvde - Everything but German
PoisonTV
Profile Joined July 2013
United Kingdom32 Posts
January 03 2014 23:25 GMT
#2
Reserved for further comments
http://www.twitch.tv/poisontvde - Everything but German
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-03 23:31:07
January 03 2014 23:30 GMT
#3
There's something/someone you seem to have left out of your article, the innovator of the raven style that's been using it since MLG DC 2010. But anyone reading already knows
Sup
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14462 Posts
January 03 2014 23:31 GMT
#4
HTOMario is a great guy.
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
PoisonTV
Profile Joined July 2013
United Kingdom32 Posts
January 03 2014 23:41 GMT
#5
HI Avilo this is a multi part series, more content to be added in future articles. Thankyou for your feedback
http://www.twitch.tv/poisontvde - Everything but German
PaeZ
Profile Joined April 2005
Mexico1627 Posts
January 03 2014 23:43 GMT
#6
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.

I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something?
Lucoda
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Ireland183 Posts
January 03 2014 23:45 GMT
#7
Mario is by far the best mech only terran in my opinion. He has innovated mech to such an extent that so many other people are starting to mech too. Mario meching it happen as always!
https://twitter.com/LucodaSC2
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
January 03 2014 23:47 GMT
#8
On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.

I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something?


It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_-
Sup
PaeZ
Profile Joined April 2005
Mexico1627 Posts
January 03 2014 23:51 GMT
#9
On January 04 2014 08:45 LucoxP wrote:
Mario is by far the best mech only terran in my opinion. He has innovated mech to such an extent that so many other people are starting to mech too. Mario meching it happen as always!


I dont agree with this statement, for example Strelok likes to mix up his mech with marines, Goody with passiveness and strategy. HTOMario mech is aggressive as well (I have seen his stream a lot), and Avilo mixes it up; but he prefers his raven use (in fact I have never seen a player handle ravens as well as he does, and I have seen several TvT's between him and other top notch terran players).

I think modern mech has several variants which are represented with the players the thread OP mentioned. I was just curious as of why was Avilo left out of his list? He probably forgot or something..
PoisonTV
Profile Joined July 2013
United Kingdom32 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-04 00:03:25
January 03 2014 23:59 GMT
#10
Thank you for your feedback. As I have previously stated this is an interview featuring the work of HTOMario. This is also a multi part series and more interviews will be on the way, if Avilo is willing to be interviewed then we are happy to oblige.

However as to date we have never had any interactions with Avilo, never spoken to Avilo and the previous mentioned players where taken both on current notable games in the tournament scene and availability of players. We have no person bias against any players in the scene. However it would be nice to see comments more focusing on the discussed points rather than rail roading it because player xyz was not mentioned.

http://www.twitch.tv/poisontvde - Everything but German
FnaticPink
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark324 Posts
January 04 2014 00:02 GMT
#11
On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.

I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something?


It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_-


except bisu did well in tournaments
Ctone23
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States1841 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-04 00:04:57
January 04 2014 00:04 GMT
#12
On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.

I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something?


It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_-


I'm sure you will get a write up, Mario is deserving though, he works hard and is on an up and coming team.

The Bisu comparison might be a stretch at this point
TL+ Member
Mr.Apathetic
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia11 Posts
January 04 2014 00:15 GMT
#13
On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.

I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something?


It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_-


I like how you compared yourself to Bisu and that you got the matchup wrong too (PvZ) but still i guess you should still get credit
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
January 04 2014 00:16 GMT
#14
On January 04 2014 08:59 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for your feedback. As I have previously stated this is an interview featuring the work of HTOMario. This is also a multi part series and more interviews will be on the way, if Avilo is willing to be interviewed then we are happy to oblige.

However as to date we have never had any interactions with Avilo, never spoken to Avilo and the previous mentioned players where taken both on current notable games in the tournament scene and availability of players. We have no person bias against any players in the scene. However it would be nice to see comments more focusing on the discussed points rather than rail roading it because player xyz was not mentioned.



You named the thread "Modern Mechanic" maybe rename to "HTOmario interview" would be a good idea if it's not to discuss "Modern Mechanic" a bit misleading because the opening mentions many mech players, except the one that popularized the raven style mentioned a lot in the thread
Sup
Zeweig
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden189 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-04 00:23:38
January 04 2014 00:22 GMT
#15
Commentator for Esports Heaven, covering mainly European and Chinese events. I do observing and writing on the side.
PoisonTV
Profile Joined July 2013
United Kingdom32 Posts
January 04 2014 00:22 GMT
#16
Thank you for you feedback , As you have pointed out it is called the Modern Mechanic and discuses with such an individual who meets that criteria. When we produce a 'History of Mechanics' we will surely be in contact. Thank you again for your feedback.
http://www.twitch.tv/poisontvde - Everything but German
Zeweig
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden189 Posts
January 04 2014 00:22 GMT
#17
On January 04 2014 09:16 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 08:59 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for your feedback. As I have previously stated this is an interview featuring the work of HTOMario. This is also a multi part series and more interviews will be on the way, if Avilo is willing to be interviewed then we are happy to oblige.

However as to date we have never had any interactions with Avilo, never spoken to Avilo and the previous mentioned players where taken both on current notable games in the tournament scene and availability of players. We have no person bias against any players in the scene. However it would be nice to see comments more focusing on the discussed points rather than rail roading it because player xyz was not mentioned.



You named the thread "Modern Mechanic" maybe rename to "HTOmario interview" would be a good idea if it's not to discuss "Modern Mechanic" a bit misleading because the opening mentions many mech players, except the one that popularized the raven style mentioned a lot in the thread

This is part 1 in a series, will be more analysis and interviews in next one(s).
Commentator for Esports Heaven, covering mainly European and Chinese events. I do observing and writing on the side.
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
January 04 2014 00:36 GMT
#18
On January 04 2014 09:22 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for you feedback , As you have pointed out it is called the Modern Mechanic and discuses with such an individual who meets that criteria. When we produce a 'History of Mechanics' we will surely be in contact. Thank you again for your feedback.


Let me rephrase: it mentions every player except conveniently does not mention the one that popularized and innovated the modern mech + raven style. It is quite obvious to anyone reading :D
Sup
robert1005
Profile Joined July 2012
Netherlands98 Posts
January 04 2014 00:39 GMT
#19
On January 04 2014 09:36 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 09:22 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for you feedback , As you have pointed out it is called the Modern Mechanic and discuses with such an individual who meets that criteria. When we produce a 'History of Mechanics' we will surely be in contact. Thank you again for your feedback.


Let me rephrase: it mentions every player except conveniently does not mention the one that popularized and innovated the modern mech + raven style. It is quite obvious to anyone reading :D


Only the guys playing in tournaments popularize things I think. And as you don't play in tournaments....

I'm sorry, I think you are a good player and I watch your stream often.
The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
HomeWorld
Profile Joined December 2011
Romania903 Posts
January 04 2014 01:13 GMT
#20
Who is HTOMario ?
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