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In an era of zerglings with mutalisks, marines with mines and colossi with stalkers, a lot of the old builds and compositions fall into oblivion. But one style seems never to give up fighting, with a history that goes back all the way to the first StarCraft game and then continuously being a part of the metagame, played by Transformers lovers and motor enthusiasts alike.
The mech style has always kind of existed in StarCraft, varying in degree of success depending on the current patch and game. In the current scene, there are a few players who are currently dominating with their signature style, some having up to 90 percent win ratio in the Terran vs Zerg match-up. This combined with the recent upset after several Terrans started beating very proficient Zerg players, perhaps most notably the Goody vs TLO games in the group stages of BCON Clash #2 where Goody with his extremely defensive (as others might call it – passive) style won him two games against the Team Liquid player, creating many outbursts of a broken style and abusive play. This really sparked my interest in a relatively unexplored field to me, creating the initial ground for this article.
So strap yourselves in. We are going to dive into the minds of some of the most successful mech players in the foreigner scene – who know what we will find?
The Men Behind the Metal
If you have ever watched the Zotac Cup or Go4SC2, you have most likely seen either Strelok or Goody playing there. Taking their time with each game (compared to many others who want to finish the early games quickly) they almost always get very far, and it’s not a rare sight to see major players from both the foreigner scene and the Korean one to fall to these titans. There are several aspects to why they succeed against some of the best players you can find – many don’t practice against very passive styles (also known as “turtle” style) as they are a very minor part of the playerbase in the higher tiers of the professional scene.
Even though most people in the foreigner scene know about Goody and Strelok, a lot of Korean players don’t, resulting in them playing like they would against any Code S or Code A mech style, with lots of aggression and timing pushes. Another problem is that both these players have a very different approach to the match-up – we see Strelok once in a while throwing in bio play as well as some very aggressive moves like mine drops and hellion harass, while Goody always stays passive, using his initial eight hellions and banshee to try to cause damage, and then moving back to the safety of his two base play.
Another game that really shows the strength of this style is the Hyun vs Goody game in the Go4SC2 on Akilon Wastes, where Goody held his four very safe bases (thanks to the structure of the map) while Hyun did all in his might to beat him down, using crazy tech switches involving over forty infestors, close to fifty mutalisks and almost forty swarm hosts. No matter what Hyun did, Goody always seemed to be fine with replacing the few units he lost and just wearing his opponent down. Needless to say, Goody ended up victorious.
American Steel
Not all players that hurt poor little insects with their transformable racecars with blue flames are European. Say hello to HTOMario! Playing for Love Your Girlfriend, an up and coming team with players all over the world (who are in the process of picking up Tassadar and Genius into their roster), Mario has been doing very well for himself. Being in top Grandmaster with mech as well as high Grandmaster as random, while having a stream with over two thousand followers and releasing replay packs for the public, he is one of the most well known mech players you will find.
Now, HTOMario is originally from Belgium, but lives in America with his family, making him one of the strongest, if not the strongest, mech player in the NA scene with very good results and a long history, all the way back to the first StarCraft game.
After getting in contact with him I managed to get a written interview, giving you a unique opportunity for a glance into the brain of a professional mech player. Enjoy!
Inside the Mind of the Mechanic
How would you define your style as a player?
Calculated I suppose, as an example the last 3 days I have been working on a TvP bio into mech style with several korean grand masters making step by step for every transition I can think of and how to take advantage of it. Then variations in case a person has seen it before so they have to guess which angle I am going for. I spend more time creating strategies then actually playing the ladder.
What advantage will that give you compared to someone like, let's say Kas, who play close to 2000 ladder games per season?
I still actually play a lot, I'm approaching 1000 for this season, however I think my advantage comes from when I get into a game the opponent doesn't know what I could go for. However I know every option they can. I feel like usually I have the upper hand.
So you would almost consider yourself to be "outside the meta"?
I do think I am outside of the meta game, I feel like I force my opponents to do the same or fold. Most of my losses are from people out playing or surprising me. That's probably why the majority of my games are really weird but so exciting.
Most people would claim that you are a "mech player", would you consider yourself to be precisely that, or is mech more of a tool to perform your desired strategies?
I started mech back in StarCraft 1, in wings of liberty I was mech and random. I suppose I am still the same. Recently I got to rank 28 grandmaster as random and it's fun to mess around and play with the races. At the end of the day though I always go back to mech play. Mech is my joy, my passion on starcraft. Random is for when I get burned out.
As you probably know better than most people – there are many styles of mech nowadays. You have Goody's super-defensive TvZ and Strelok’s much more aggressive builds. How aggressive are you do you think?
I focus on multi tasking in that regard, hellions moving around the map, dropships or tiny armies. I really like to harass and have map presence while I build up.
So you try to stay away from the really defensive styles. Any reason for that?
I used to be super defensive until I started watching Day[9]. I don't remember when it was but somewhere along the lines of early WOL he was describing mech as lots of little attacks that are hard to handle behind amassing the deadliest army imaginable. I liked the sound of that. I guess he really changed my style from Brood War to SC2. I tried it, loved it, stuck with it, still watch him almost every daily.
Some people have gotten upset over Goody's defensive style dominating TvZ with over 90% winrate, beating even TLO 2-0 with games lasting between an hour and and hour and a half. What do you think about this?
TvZ I think is probably the easiest matchup with mech. I have a 91% tvz on it myself. It's because the swarm host is the go to unit for Zerg and the raven is the counter. They force Terrans into the raven and when they have a critical mass they just die. The raven is like the ghost in Wings of Liberty before the snipe nerf. You wouldn't let them mass up a unit that could snipe your entire army and be at the minimum ok in every engagement. Well now they're pretty much handing the ravens to the Terrans by going swarm host. Even if they don't go swarm host, if you can amass a lot of ravens, it's really hard to break you. Don't get me wrong, I think Terran needs a unit to make them more cost efficient in the late game. But this I think might be too much.
So you think of it as a balance issue rather than a strategic issue?
I think it's easier to use 20+ ravens then it is to kill 20+ ravens as I have seen so far. You can kill it with a good tact hell yeah. But I guess a good comparison would be: it's easier to storm an army than to dodge storms. It's easier to hunter seeker an army than it is to dodge the seekers.
Any idea on how to counter these mass raven compositions from the Zerg player’s perspective?
Fungal them, viper abduct or go a massive corruptor army into a tech switch to ultras. The more air they have the better ultras are. The more ground the better wiping out the air is with like corruptor viper infestor.
You play for Love Your Girlfriend with a lot of really skilled people. What would you say your position in the team is? Are you a bit of a leader or more of a practice partner and team mate?
For the most part I can keep up with our Korean counterparts and really play with them. I don't think any of us are really the leaders besides management. We just play our hearts out and strive to be the best we can be. We spend a lot of time helping each other.
In the interview with Thunderdog e-Sports it sounded like you are a really global team with players from Europe, North America and Korea. How does it work to practice with these players across the servers with the huge time differentials?
Time can be an issue and when it is we share replays while we wait for a time to get together. We have so many awesome players though that I can find someone any day I want.
If I am correct you are currently what most people would call a “semi-professional player”, meaning that you play on a professional level but can’t live on just playing StarCraft?
I suppose so. I never really think about it. I make enough but I don't think I could live only off starcraft. I don't really like thinking about "pro", "semi-pro" or "retired" I just play my ass off and try to improve and have fun. Labels don't interest me.
What is your ultimate goal in StarCraft or as a gamer in general? If anything was possible.
It's always been a dream to stand at a major tournament and hold the big trophy. It motivates me thinking that as long as I do the best I can it might be possible. However I will settle for making an impact somewhere.
So what is the next step for you? What is the plan for 2014?
I guess seeing how I do in WCS. I've been really hitting the games hard and I want to try to make a dent. My goal is to qualify at least once before the end of the year.
So for the players out there that feel like they want to go mech themselves and become the next "HTOMario", what is your best tip for them?
Don't be an angry player, blame yourself always before balance or the other person. I hear people talking about map hackers or stream cheaters all the time. I get that thought like maybe once a month and throw it out like: "Doesn't matter". If I played better I could win, it's just a matter of doing so.
Many that want to become great at the game have a hard time with having a lot of other things going on, like families and work. How have you managed all this together with StarCraft?
I have a wife and two kids, I try to dedicate a lot of time to them. Just because you can't play 12 hours a day doesn't mean you can't practice efficiently. Don't be shy and accept that you aren't the best but that you can always do things to be better. Every game I join where I don't understand something I will ask my opponent, I am not shy on asking how others handle something or how they feel I should respond. Hell I ask players if they see holes in my builds. Watch streams, write down build orders really think about what you want to do. I remember getting major in a TvT, by far my worst matchup and I was having such a hard time. I told him if he answers 3 questions about the matchup i'd leave. We spent 10-15 minutes typing and I learned so much from that. that my confidence in the matchup has increased.
Thank you for the interview! Any shoutouts or last words to add? Team, people helping you out, sponsors or anything like that?
I would like to thank idea2create and Croupier Akademie 23 as well as my team. I don't think I would feel this confident about my play if it wasn't for LYGF so I'm really glad to be here.
Closing Time
As you can notice in the interview, ravens were brought up a lot, and it has become the go-to unit for Terran mech nowadays. There have been a lot of Zergs talking discussing this issue as it is very hard to counteract with a simple unit composition as there is no really simple solution as “x solves y”.
But mech isn’t unbeatable for Zerg players! There has been a lot of success with several different styles, and there are several weak spots to mech as well. All this and more will be brought up in an upcoming article.
Have any ideas to add to this? Post it in the comments and I will make sure to add it in the next one. I will also bring up games like the ones I talked about in this article and go more in depth on both how to play it and how to break it.
Thanks for reading, see you next time!
PoisonTV - Zeweig
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Reserved for further comments
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There's something/someone you seem to have left out of your article, the innovator of the raven style that's been using it since MLG DC 2010. But anyone reading already knows 
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HI Avilo this is a multi part series, more content to be added in future articles. Thankyou for your feedback
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Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.
I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something?
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Mario is by far the best mech only terran in my opinion. He has innovated mech to such an extent that so many other people are starting to mech too. Mario meching it happen as always!
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On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.
I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something?
It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_-
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On January 04 2014 08:45 LucoxP wrote:
Mario is by far the best mech only terran in my opinion. He has innovated mech to such an extent that so many other people are starting to mech too. Mario meching it happen as always!
I dont agree with this statement, for example Strelok likes to mix up his mech with marines, Goody with passiveness and strategy. HTOMario mech is aggressive as well (I have seen his stream a lot), and Avilo mixes it up; but he prefers his raven use (in fact I have never seen a player handle ravens as well as he does, and I have seen several TvT's between him and other top notch terran players).
I think modern mech has several variants which are represented with the players the thread OP mentioned. I was just curious as of why was Avilo left out of his list? He probably forgot or something..
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Thank you for your feedback. As I have previously stated this is an interview featuring the work of HTOMario. This is also a multi part series and more interviews will be on the way, if Avilo is willing to be interviewed then we are happy to oblige.
However as to date we have never had any interactions with Avilo, never spoken to Avilo and the previous mentioned players where taken both on current notable games in the tournament scene and availability of players. We have no person bias against any players in the scene. However it would be nice to see comments more focusing on the discussed points rather than rail roading it because player xyz was not mentioned.
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On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.
I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something? It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_-
except bisu did well in tournaments
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On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.
I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something? It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_-
I'm sure you will get a write up, Mario is deserving though, he works hard and is on an up and coming team.
The Bisu comparison might be a stretch at this point 
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On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.
I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something? It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_-
I like how you compared yourself to Bisu and that you got the matchup wrong too (PvZ) but still i guess you should still get credit
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On January 04 2014 08:59 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for your feedback. As I have previously stated this is an interview featuring the work of HTOMario. This is also a multi part series and more interviews will be on the way, if Avilo is willing to be interviewed then we are happy to oblige.
However as to date we have never had any interactions with Avilo, never spoken to Avilo and the previous mentioned players where taken both on current notable games in the tournament scene and availability of players. We have no person bias against any players in the scene. However it would be nice to see comments more focusing on the discussed points rather than rail roading it because player xyz was not mentioned.
You named the thread "Modern Mechanic" maybe rename to "HTOmario interview" would be a good idea if it's not to discuss "Modern Mechanic" a bit misleading because the opening mentions many mech players, except the one that popularized the raven style mentioned a lot in the thread 
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Thank you for you feedback , As you have pointed out it is called the Modern Mechanic and discuses with such an individual who meets that criteria. When we produce a 'History of Mechanics' we will surely be in contact. Thank you again for your feedback.
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On January 04 2014 09:16 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:59 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for your feedback. As I have previously stated this is an interview featuring the work of HTOMario. This is also a multi part series and more interviews will be on the way, if Avilo is willing to be interviewed then we are happy to oblige.
However as to date we have never had any interactions with Avilo, never spoken to Avilo and the previous mentioned players where taken both on current notable games in the tournament scene and availability of players. We have no person bias against any players in the scene. However it would be nice to see comments more focusing on the discussed points rather than rail roading it because player xyz was not mentioned.
You named the thread "Modern Mechanic" maybe rename to "HTOmario interview" would be a good idea if it's not to discuss "Modern Mechanic" a bit misleading because the opening mentions many mech players, except the one that popularized the raven style mentioned a lot in the thread
This is part 1 in a series, will be more analysis and interviews in next one(s).
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On January 04 2014 09:22 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for you feedback , As you have pointed out it is called the Modern Mechanic and discuses with such an individual who meets that criteria. When we produce a 'History of Mechanics' we will surely be in contact. Thank you again for your feedback.
Let me rephrase: it mentions every player except conveniently does not mention the one that popularized and innovated the modern mech + raven style. It is quite obvious to anyone reading :D
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On January 04 2014 09:36 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 09:22 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for you feedback , As you have pointed out it is called the Modern Mechanic and discuses with such an individual who meets that criteria. When we produce a 'History of Mechanics' we will surely be in contact. Thank you again for your feedback. Let me rephrase: it mentions every player except conveniently does not mention the one that popularized and innovated the modern mech + raven style. It is quite obvious to anyone reading :D
Only the guys playing in tournaments popularize things I think. And as you don't play in tournaments....
I'm sorry, I think you are a good player and I watch your stream often.
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On January 04 2014 08:30 avilo wrote:There's something/someone you seem to have left out of your article, the innovator of the raven style that's been using it since MLG DC 2010. But anyone reading already knows
+1
"mechin it happen" - Avilo
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Dominican Republic34 Posts
I think we can all agree Late Game Mech + Raven composition was popularized and used by Avilo for a long time even before winfestors came up.
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On January 04 2014 09:16 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:59 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for your feedback. As I have previously stated this is an interview featuring the work of HTOMario. This is also a multi part series and more interviews will be on the way, if Avilo is willing to be interviewed then we are happy to oblige.
However as to date we have never had any interactions with Avilo, never spoken to Avilo and the previous mentioned players where taken both on current notable games in the tournament scene and availability of players. We have no person bias against any players in the scene. However it would be nice to see comments more focusing on the discussed points rather than rail roading it because player xyz was not mentioned.
You named the thread "Modern Mechanic" maybe rename to "HTOmario interview" would be a good idea if it's not to discuss "Modern Mechanic" a bit misleading because the opening mentions many mech players, except the one that popularized the raven style mentioned a lot in the thread
Whats your problem? He said it was a multi post article. He said multiple times that he would get in contact with you.
You're so arrogant and self centered dude. For a 26 year old that lives at home with his parents you need to bring yourself down a notch. You arent the first person ever to do mech. You arent the first person to use a lot of ravens.
Did you even bother reading the OP's responses or even the article?
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woah avilo desperately looking for some recognition
and to be fair avilo you do act like you invented mech, but without copying people on SC1 you wouldn't have a clue what a mech style would look like, you didn't invent anything, you just played a fuckton with mech units because you won't let go of brood war nostalgia
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On January 04 2014 10:17 Kalfos wrote:
I think we can all agree Late Game Mech + Raven composition was popularized and used by Avilo for a long time even before winfestors came up.
"Popularized" I dont think you know what that word means. Popularized = made it popular. I dont see ANYBODY play Avilo's style, first of all, secondly, building Ravens doesnt make you an innovator. Ravens are the WoL infestor of heart of the swarm. Realistically, you cannot beat mass ravens.
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he's getting exactly what he wants, he made the entire thread about himself and we're all still talking about him. insulting him doesn't do anything for the OP, who posted a perfectly good thread and committed no crime other than not genuflecting at the altar of avilo. the only way to deal with people who have an attention problem like his is to completely ignore his chatter when it's inappropriate. otherwise he has no motive to stop.
thanks for the article, OP. please don't let divas with overinflated egos discourage you from publishing more content in the future.
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Canada8159 Posts
I think Yoshi Kirishima deserves recognition for his undying loyalty to mech, the man works wonders with it
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On January 04 2014 10:17 Kalfos wrote:
I think we can all agree Late Game Mech + Raven composition was popularized and used by Avilo for a long time even before winfestors came up.
Uh no, it was used in wol well before avilo even got remotely popular on streams. Contrary to Avilo and some of his fans he was not the inventor of it.
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Dt/sair was something not seen before that actually worked against the best
Mech in Star 2 is basically trying to play like Star 1, in a way that does not really yield the results it would need to garner a comparision with bisu (blessed be his name)
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On January 04 2014 10:56 Jer99 wrote:
I think Yoshi Kirishima deserves recognition for his undying loyalty to mech, the man works wonders with it
I will do some research on him as I haven't encountered him myself. Thanks for the feedback and helping making part 2 even better!
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On January 04 2014 10:26 Challengerr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 10:17 Kalfos wrote:
I think we can all agree Late Game Mech + Raven composition was popularized and used by Avilo for a long time even before winfestors came up. "Popularized" I dont think you know what that word means. Popularized = made it popular. I dont see ANYBODY play Avilo's style, first of all, secondly, building Ravens doesnt make you an innovator. Ravens are the WoL infestor of heart of the swarm. Realistically, you cannot beat mass ravens.
Trying to make raven (and mech) work with a very good degree of success while everyone else is still stuck in bio play ... that is innovation (at least in TvZ/TvT).
Just because you don't see it in tournaments it doesn't mean no one knows about it.
PS: are we talking about HotS? right?
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On January 04 2014 10:56 Jer99 wrote:
I think Yoshi Kirishima deserves recognition for his undying loyalty to mech, the man works wonders with it
Did he made some big mech content ? I used to really enjoy sharing with him about my mech guide, but i lost track of a lot of people when taking my breaks from the game / TL.
edit : also, do i have the right to act angry about the article not giving me any credit about my mech innovations in WoL ? plz plz plz plz *.*
(and obviously, this is irony. I prefer to add it, since some people forget to spot it)
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Before even reading the comments I knew this would be an Avilo vs. the world whinefest...
Besides that, good write up! Glad to see HTOMario gaining some more speed in the scene, he has been a huge provider of replays, strategy and write ups for a while, and this is well deserved recognition.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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On January 04 2014 11:14 HomeWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 10:26 Challengerr wrote:On January 04 2014 10:17 Kalfos wrote:
I think we can all agree Late Game Mech + Raven composition was popularized and used by Avilo for a long time even before winfestors came up. "Popularized" I dont think you know what that word means. Popularized = made it popular. I dont see ANYBODY play Avilo's style, first of all, secondly, building Ravens doesnt make you an innovator. Ravens are the WoL infestor of heart of the swarm. Realistically, you cannot beat mass ravens. Trying to make raven (and mech) work with a very good degree of success while everyone else is still stuck in bio play ... that is innovation (at least in TvZ/TvT). Just because you don't see it in tournaments it doesn't mean no one knows about it. PS: are we talking about HotS? right?
I wouldn't call building Ravens with mech an innovation. People aren't "stuck" on bio play, its just the best style to play. You have fun, its fast paced, and its all around great for every matchup.
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This cracks me up. I think I love avilo more than normal after reading these posts hahaha
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You lost me at "HTOMario is the strongest Mech player". Thought this was serious. Also to Avilo, you literally popularized nothing. So please stop!
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On January 04 2014 11:07 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 10:17 Kalfos wrote:
I think we can all agree Late Game Mech + Raven composition was popularized and used by Avilo for a long time even before winfestors came up. Uh no, it was used in wol well before avilo even got remotely popular on streams. Contrary to Avilo and some of his fans he was not the inventor of it.
This, this shouldn't even be a conversation. Not a single player from NA popularized any form of Mech. Everyone in all parts of Masters has been using Mech since WOL and well into HOTS.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37043 Posts
On January 04 2014 11:53 Rekrul wrote:
i invented arbiters fwiw
I thought you invented the Lurker.
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nice interview, I really like his style of mech the best out of all. his personality is awesome too
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On January 04 2014 13:11 Seeker wrote:I thought you invented the Lurker.
He's not that much of a forward thinker though
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lol what did i just read first of all mech vs protoss will never work simple as that its just bad. vs zerg its not even good unless u get into bc raven viking without bc u still lose to good zergs. and vs terran is obviously good calling them inventors of something thats been played for 10 years.
just lol
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On January 04 2014 09:16 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:59 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for your feedback. As I have previously stated this is an interview featuring the work of HTOMario. This is also a multi part series and more interviews will be on the way, if Avilo is willing to be interviewed then we are happy to oblige.
However as to date we have never had any interactions with Avilo, never spoken to Avilo and the previous mentioned players where taken both on current notable games in the tournament scene and availability of players. We have no person bias against any players in the scene. However it would be nice to see comments more focusing on the discussed points rather than rail roading it because player xyz was not mentioned.
You named the thread "Modern Mechanic" maybe rename to "HTOmario interview" would be a good idea if it's not to discuss "Modern Mechanic" a bit misleading because the opening mentions many mech players, except the one that popularized the raven style mentioned a lot in the thread
Jesus Christ can you shut up for 2 minutes? You have provided next to nothing for the community, and you're just here to pester someone trying to do actual good work.
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I don't watch sc2 outside of tournaments so I've never heard of Avilo before. He made a pretty good first impression in this thread I guess. I do miss DT/Corsair in TvP.
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i like mobile mech
goody's turtling mech makes me sad
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Ya I was kinda surprised Avilo didn't get a nod or even a mention when you wrote (at length) about the raven style in TvZ. But everyone knows that I invented multiple dropship harass with mech. Right? Who am I, you may be thinking.. Exactly. Who invented the phrase "what's up?" eh? Exactly. The ORIGINAL.
Avilo, well, he's so sensitive and the polar opposite of modest. But he's fuzzy deep down inside, probably!
Good article. Fun read. Can't wait to hear more =] I love Terran mech!
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On January 04 2014 13:32 MajOr wrote:
lol what did i just read first of all mech vs protoss will never work simple as that its just bad. vs zerg its not even good unless u get into bc raven viking without bc u still lose to good zergs. and vs terran is obviously good calling them inventors of something thats been played for 10 years.
just lol
let avilo get the attention that he craves
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On January 04 2014 09:15 Mr.Apathetic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.
I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something? It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_- I like how you compared yourself to Bisu and that you got the matchup wrong too (PvZ) but still i guess you should still get credit
Ahaha, I hadn't noticed : D
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On January 04 2014 08:24 PoisonTV wrote:
This combined with the recent upset after several Terrans started beating very proficient Zerg players, perhaps most notably the Goody vs TLO games in the group stages of BCON Clash #2 where Goody with his extremely defensive (as others might call it – passive) style won him two games against the Team Liquid player, creating many outbursts of a broken style and abusive play. This really sparked my interest in a relatively unexplored field to me, creating the initial ground for this article.
I am not sure if this sounds more negative than its supposed to be or I am getting it all wrong. Why is a strat called "abusiv"? Then every working strat should be considered abusiv.
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On January 04 2014 08:30 avilo wrote:There's something/someone you seem to have left out of your article, the innovator of the raven style that's been using it since MLG DC 2010. But anyone reading already knows
Fuzer?
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On January 04 2014 09:36 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 09:22 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for you feedback , As you have pointed out it is called the Modern Mechanic and discuses with such an individual who meets that criteria. When we produce a 'History of Mechanics' we will surely be in contact. Thank you again for your feedback. Let me rephrase: it mentions every player except conveniently does not mention the one that popularized and innovated the modern mech + raven style. It is quite obvious to anyone reading :D
It was you? lol. I have saw several players to use mass ravens since 2010
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Nice interview, OP. HTOMario seems a good dude and a switched on Starcraft player. I've never seen him stream. Your article has made me want to check out his twitch vods. An aggressive and mobile mech style is something I can live with for SC2.
GL Mario.
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On January 04 2014 12:22 SoFrOsTy wrote:
You lost me at "HTOMario is the strongest Mech player". Thought this was serious. Also to Avilo, you literally popularized nothing. So please stop!
I said that he was one of the strongest meching players in NA, which is from what I have seen, absolutely true.
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On January 04 2014 16:37 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:24 PoisonTV wrote:
This combined with the recent upset after several Terrans started beating very proficient Zerg players, perhaps most notably the Goody vs TLO games in the group stages of BCON Clash #2 where Goody with his extremely defensive (as others might call it – passive) style won him two games against the Team Liquid player, creating many outbursts of a broken style and abusive play. This really sparked my interest in a relatively unexplored field to me, creating the initial ground for this article. I am not sure if this sounds more negative than its supposed to be or I am getting it all wrong. Why is a strat called "abusiv"? Then every working strat should be considered abusiv.
I was waiting for someone to notice that. I have casted a lot of games with goody, and all receiving comments on how abusive of a style it is, and that it's basically him forcing the tie and people are too impatient. The prime example of this was TLO vs Goody in the BCON Clash. First game was around 40-50 minutes I think and 2nd was around one and a half hours. TLO went along and wrote "sigh" and the chat was exploding with whether this style is abusive or not.
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On January 04 2014 12:22 SoFrOsTy wrote:
You lost me at "HTOMario is the strongest Mech player". Thought this was serious. Also to Avilo, you literally popularized nothing. So please stop!
learn to read before getting lost.
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As a mech player I find this this thread as a whole is cringe worthy and just bad, I feel sorry for the original poster who went through the trouble of interviewing HTOMario.
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Interesting interview! Thanks for posting this. I'm not really sure why someone would only play one particular style, but if he's having success, then that's great!
On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.
I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something? It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_-
Yes you're just like Bisu >.>
Except I'm pretty sure that the Bisu Build wasn't TvP lol...
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C'mon, Avilo is on par with HTOMario, so him saying he deserves also some recognition is true.
+ Saying he's the father of Raven lategame composition, I don't know but what I'am sure is that's he's one of the best at it, and for a very long time. He deserves some recognition, no need to bash him for the sake of it because he's Avilo.
I do admit he's a bit crude but well.
Anyway, good interview. For me, mech will always be associated to Mvp because he's the best at it. Period.
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There are some very ABUSIVE strats and builds for mech (in TvZ) out there right now. The thing they abuse is the fact, that noone knows a lot about them and only very few are able to counter them because of that. But they are not strong - they are just not figured out.
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There are many types of graffins, the tall ones survive and others fall. In starcraft 2, overcloaked terran players survive in the tournaments while slower or outdated ones fall apart.(mech sucks) For protoss, who make carriers fall.
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Really enjoyed the interview, looking forward to the next part of the series. Seems topical with the as-yet-unknown potential mech buff(s) incoming...
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to be fair, avilo has been trying to make raven usage work since what? early 2012? give him some credit.
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On January 04 2014 23:23 agahamsorr0w wrote:
to be fair, avilo has been trying to make raven usage work since what? early 2012? give him some credit.
Should i do the same than him, because i'm using Mech + banshee -> raven -> sky since 2011 then and even made the only big guide about it in the worst mech MU? It's not "fair" not to give credits to me, right ? --'
He's not just trying to "get credit". He's trying to pull all credits and attention about this subject to himself, and basically want to get crowned as the king, god, savior and only important user of Mech since Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty came out. HTOMario,Strelok, Mvp, Lagforce, Goody, myself, all the others... all these players who participated to Mech at their respective levels, in their made some innovations and popularized some things, in avilo's world, they don't exist, or they only got inspired by his own genius
Using it once before it became popular on stream =/= Being the first to do it constantly =/= invented =/= popularized =/= made it used by pros. Some people should realize that, and some people should figure out what "multiple parts" means, since it was said a couple times by the op..
The content itself is nice and it would be stupid to turn another mech-based discussion into an avilo praise/hate-thread
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On January 04 2014 23:54 Lyyna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 23:23 agahamsorr0w wrote:
to be fair, avilo has been trying to make raven usage work since what? early 2012? give him some credit. Should i do the same than him, because i'm using Mech + banshee -> raven -> sky since 2011 then and even made the only big guide about it in one MU? --' He's not just trying to "get credit". He's trying to pull all credits and attention about this subject to himself, and basically want to get crowned as the king, god, and savior of Mech since Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty came out Being the first to do it on stream =/= invented =/= popularized =/= made it used by pros. Some people should realize that, and some people should figure out what "multiple parts" means, since it was said a couple times by the op.. The content itself is nice and it would be stupid to turn another mech-based discussion into an avilo praise/hate-thread
if you can do better then i suggest you start streaming and promoting mech yourself. Avilo might be a little arrogant but i know some people who have been inspired by him. who have you inspired? stop trying to get people down to your level with your hate and envy. hes just trying to get some recognition. after all, why do we play this game for? for sure its not to get bitched on by some random dude on a forum.
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Damn, I'm excited to see some HTOMario games now!
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On January 05 2014 00:24 agahamsorr0w wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 23:54 Lyyna wrote:On January 04 2014 23:23 agahamsorr0w wrote:
to be fair, avilo has been trying to make raven usage work since what? early 2012? give him some credit. Should i do the same than him, because i'm using Mech + banshee -> raven -> sky since 2011 then and even made the only big guide about it in one MU? --' He's not just trying to "get credit". He's trying to pull all credits and attention about this subject to himself, and basically want to get crowned as the king, god, and savior of Mech since Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty came out Being the first to do it on stream =/= invented =/= popularized =/= made it used by pros. Some people should realize that, and some people should figure out what "multiple parts" means, since it was said a couple times by the op.. The content itself is nice and it would be stupid to turn another mech-based discussion into an avilo praise/hate-thread if you can do better then i suggest you start streaming and promoting mech yourself. Avilo might be a little arrogant but i know some people who have been inspired by him. who have you inspired? stop trying to get people down to your level with your hate and envy. hes just trying to get some recognition. after all, why do we play this game for? for sure its not to get bitched on by some random dude on a forum.
Erhm. Lyyna did a lot for mech users, if you don't know him doesn't mean he's unknown for everyone. Check his mech guide and see how many feedback he got.
Gosh people these days are so self centred.
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Avilo is right, you should mention TLO, the man who basically played everything in the WoL beta and therefore should be called the innovator of basically anything.
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The entire concept of "Mech Player" makes me laugh... We are just terran players and have to be good with mech, bio and biomech.
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On January 04 2014 22:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Interesting interview! Thanks for posting this. I'm not really sure why someone would only play one particular style, but if he's having success, then that's great! Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.
I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something? It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_- Yes you're just like Bisu >.> Except I'm pretty sure that the Bisu Build wasn't TvP lol...
Avilo is partly right, the Bisu build was primarily used PvZ, but then it was used by others PvT, the goal was to use the corsair disruption web to stop tank from firing, while protoss forces would then destroy them (almost no one used corsair except for scouting)
Here is a liquipedia link: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Corsair
and Here is the Bisu build : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Bisu_Build
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TLADT24920 Posts
On January 05 2014 01:41 PaeZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 22:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Interesting interview! Thanks for posting this. I'm not really sure why someone would only play one particular style, but if he's having success, then that's great! On January 04 2014 08:47 avilo wrote:On January 04 2014 08:43 PaeZ wrote:
Your article seems nice! But you seem to forget Avilo? He is alongside Mario the only consistent NA top terran who can make Mech work in all matchups. Not to mention they have played some TvT's between themselves with both winning some.
I mean you mention 2 european players that are famous for using Mech, why only mention 1 NA player when there are clearly 2 NA players using Mech was well? do you have any grudge against Avilo or something? It would be like me writing an article about the DT/Corsair innovation in TvP brood war, and then mentioning every Protoss that has ever used it...except the man...bisu -_- Yes you're just like Bisu >.> Except I'm pretty sure that the Bisu Build wasn't TvP lol... Avilo is partly right, the Bisu build was primarily used PvZ, but then it was used by others PvT, the goal was to use the corsair disruption web to stop tank from firing, while protoss forces would then destroy them (almost no one used corsair except for scouting) Here is a liquipedia link: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Corsairand Here is the Bisu build : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Bisu_Build
I think you missed DarkPlasmaBall's point lol. It was likely Avilo was talking about PvZ since that's primarily where it's used(it's rare to see corsair/dt in PvT nowadays if you've been watching BW(and even in the past, it wasn't popular by any stretch of the imagination)). Either way, just felt I should point this out.
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good job Yosho, you clearly deserved the recognition. Over the last year you have transformed from this
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=yosho&gb=date&d=
to the all humble, blame yourself always before balance, modern mechanic HTOMario. What a personality (and gameplay) overhaul you have gone through.Bravo!
Avilo's main problem was that he never went through a personality change like you since Hots was released. He prefers to work on his mech play like he has done so since WoL beta.
Btw I don't think you can legitly get to rank 28 gm w/ random, since you have already been caught by Yume for getting boosted into gm.
http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1h3j6j/htomario_possibly_boosted_to_gm_verify/
It is sad that baseless witch hunts forced players like EmpireMista to retire, yet legit claims like this is simply glossed over by the community when the target is someone with a nice guy reputation and having built a strong group of followers.
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Thank you for all the positive feedback, it is saddening to see after a lot of effort that some people want to detract from what will be a good series of write ups. We look forward to bringing more articles to the TL community on the topic of mech.
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I liked the interview, but i have some criticism. The only player from the ones you mentioned that had any real success with mech was GoOdy, mostly during WOL where he won a lot of smaller tournaments. Strelok had some good games in WCS.
As far as genuinely good and "innovative" Terran players that made mech work at the high level, both in WOL and HOTS, there is only one and that is MVP.
In HOTS at the highest level mech just doesn't really exist outside of TvT (with the exception from MVP in a few TvZ). There is no such thing as "Modern Mechanic".
So in essence i like the interview but i dislike the presentation.
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On January 05 2014 03:30 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for all the positive feedback, it is saddening to see after a lot of effort that some people want to detract from what will be a good series of write ups. We look forward to bringing more articles to the TL community on the topic of mech.
By the way, do you plan to do some strategic contents or are you going to focus mainly on players' interviews like here ?
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On January 05 2014 03:14 vNmMasterT wrote:good job Yosho, you clearly deserved the recognition. Over the last year you have transformed from this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=yosho&gb=date&d=to the all humble, blame yourself always before balance, modern mechanic HTOMario. What a personality (and gameplay) overhaul you have gone through.Bravo! Avilo's main problem was that he never went through a personality change like you since Hots was released. He prefers to work on his mech play like he has done so since WoL beta. Btw I don't think you can legitly get to rank 28 gm w/ random, since you have already been caught by Yume for getting boosted into gm. http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1h3j6j/htomario_possibly_boosted_to_gm_verify/It is sad that baseless witch hunts forced players like EmpireMista to retire, yet legit claims like this is simply glossed over by the community when the target is someone with a nice guy reputation and having built a strong group of followers.
I don't think it was actually confirmed that he was boosted?
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On January 05 2014 03:59 mau5mat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 03:14 vNmMasterT wrote:good job Yosho, you clearly deserved the recognition. Over the last year you have transformed from this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=yosho&gb=date&d=to the all humble, blame yourself always before balance, modern mechanic HTOMario. What a personality (and gameplay) overhaul you have gone through.Bravo! Avilo's main problem was that he never went through a personality change like you since Hots was released. He prefers to work on his mech play like he has done so since WoL beta. Btw I don't think you can legitly get to rank 28 gm w/ random, since you have already been caught by Yume for getting boosted into gm. http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1h3j6j/htomario_possibly_boosted_to_gm_verify/It is sad that baseless witch hunts forced players like EmpireMista to retire, yet legit claims like this is simply glossed over by the community when the target is someone with a nice guy reputation and having built a strong group of followers. I don't think it was actually confirmed that he was boosted?
-.- I had 4 accounts in gm last season, 3 of which I got promoted on stream. This boosted crap was just a smear campaign.
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On January 05 2014 03:52 Lyyna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 03:30 PoisonTV wrote:
Thank you for all the positive feedback, it is saddening to see after a lot of effort that some people want to detract from what will be a good series of write ups. We look forward to bringing more articles to the TL community on the topic of mech. By the way, do you plan to do some strategic contents or are you going to focus mainly on players' interviews like here ?
We hopefully plan to cover a full spectrum, if you could PM me your contact details then I would love to talk more
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I thought this was going to be ABOUT Avilo..... you really begged the question by leaving him out. His commitment to "Mech" is unparallelled, irregardless of what anyone thinks of him.
His TvT vs Minigun last night proved Avilo has "a certain set of skills"
Anyways, I know there's more to come, look forward to it.
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On January 05 2014 00:24 agahamsorr0w wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 23:54 Lyyna wrote:On January 04 2014 23:23 agahamsorr0w wrote:
to be fair, avilo has been trying to make raven usage work since what? early 2012? give him some credit. Should i do the same than him, because i'm using Mech + banshee -> raven -> sky since 2011 then and even made the only big guide about it in one MU? --' He's not just trying to "get credit". He's trying to pull all credits and attention about this subject to himself, and basically want to get crowned as the king, god, and savior of Mech since Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty came out Being the first to do it on stream =/= invented =/= popularized =/= made it used by pros. Some people should realize that, and some people should figure out what "multiple parts" means, since it was said a couple times by the op.. The content itself is nice and it would be stupid to turn another mech-based discussion into an avilo praise/hate-thread if you can do better then i suggest you start streaming and promoting mech yourself. Avilo might be a little arrogant but i know some people who have been inspired by him. who have you inspired? stop trying to get people down to your level with your hate and envy. hes just trying to get some recognition. after all, why do we play this game for? for sure its not to get bitched on by some random dude on a forum.
Trying to get some recognition doesn't mean coming into a thread and whining like a 12 year old kid because he wasn't mentioned.
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On January 05 2014 03:14 vNmMasterT wrote:good job Yosho, you clearly deserved the recognition. Over the last year you have transformed from this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=yosho&gb=date&d=to the all humble, blame yourself always before balance, modern mechanic HTOMario. What a personality (and gameplay) overhaul you have gone through.Bravo! Avilo's main problem was that he never went through a personality change like you since Hots was released. He prefers to work on his mech play like he has done so since WoL beta. Btw I don't think you can legitly get to rank 28 gm w/ random, since you have already been caught by Yume for getting boosted into gm. http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1h3j6j/htomario_possibly_boosted_to_gm_verify/It is sad that baseless witch hunts forced players like EmpireMista to retire, yet legit claims like this is simply glossed over by the community when the target is someone with a nice guy reputation and having built a strong group of followers.
The boosting claim had insufficient evidence.
For starters, Mario consistently kicks GM ass on stream, both on the ladder and in tournaments so he has no reason to boost. Secondly, multiple third-parties (including the likes of filtersc) testified that Mario is fully capable of playing at 230 apm when he is not playing slo-mo mech.
Thirdly, he obviously does not stream every single game he plays, especially games that do not provide what people watch Mario for (mech). In order to have a profitable business, you must 1: offer satisfactory products/services and 2: offer them consistently. You go to the grocery store because they offer food all the time. You watch Day9 because he consistently gives you high-quality humor and strategy. HTOMario's only draw is his mech play. There are better players streaming than Mario, but none of them mech.
HTOMario can be BM. Everyone can, especially when one is doing new things and sucking at them.
The control group setup is definitely odd, but that's about the only accusation that holds any water. Mario did offer an explanation for that oddity, but better players than me would need to analyze that to determine its veracity.
Overall, the evidence was grossly insufficient to proclaim Mario guilty, especially when one is doing what is right and assuming he is innocent until proven guilty. As in, actually proven. Suspicious isn't proven, we all do suspicious things.
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On January 05 2014 04:29 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 00:24 agahamsorr0w wrote:On January 04 2014 23:54 Lyyna wrote:On January 04 2014 23:23 agahamsorr0w wrote:
to be fair, avilo has been trying to make raven usage work since what? early 2012? give him some credit. Should i do the same than him, because i'm using Mech + banshee -> raven -> sky since 2011 then and even made the only big guide about it in one MU? --' He's not just trying to "get credit". He's trying to pull all credits and attention about this subject to himself, and basically want to get crowned as the king, god, and savior of Mech since Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty came out Being the first to do it on stream =/= invented =/= popularized =/= made it used by pros. Some people should realize that, and some people should figure out what "multiple parts" means, since it was said a couple times by the op.. The content itself is nice and it would be stupid to turn another mech-based discussion into an avilo praise/hate-thread if you can do better then i suggest you start streaming and promoting mech yourself. Avilo might be a little arrogant but i know some people who have been inspired by him. who have you inspired? stop trying to get people down to your level with your hate and envy. hes just trying to get some recognition. after all, why do we play this game for? for sure its not to get bitched on by some random dude on a forum. Trying to get some recognition doesn't mean coming into a thread and whining like a 12 year old kid because he wasn't mentioned.
You quote him once where he whines because he didnt get mentioned in the thread.
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On January 05 2014 06:13 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 03:14 vNmMasterT wrote:good job Yosho, you clearly deserved the recognition. Over the last year you have transformed from this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=yosho&gb=date&d=to the all humble, blame yourself always before balance, modern mechanic HTOMario. What a personality (and gameplay) overhaul you have gone through.Bravo! Avilo's main problem was that he never went through a personality change like you since Hots was released. He prefers to work on his mech play like he has done so since WoL beta. Btw I don't think you can legitly get to rank 28 gm w/ random, since you have already been caught by Yume for getting boosted into gm. http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1h3j6j/htomario_possibly_boosted_to_gm_verify/It is sad that baseless witch hunts forced players like EmpireMista to retire, yet legit claims like this is simply glossed over by the community when the target is someone with a nice guy reputation and having built a strong group of followers. The boosting claim had insufficient evidence. For starters, Mario consistently kicks GM ass on stream, both on the ladder and in tournaments so he has no reason to boost. Secondly, multiple third-parties (including the likes of filtersc) testified that Mario is fully capable of playing at 230 apm when he is not playing slo-mo mech. Thirdly, he obviously does not stream every single game he plays, especially games that do not provide what people watch Mario for (mech). In order to have a profitable business, you must 1: offer satisfactory products/services and 2: offer them consistently. You go to the grocery store because they offer food all the time. You watch Day9 because he consistently gives you high-quality humor and strategy. HTOMario's only draw is his mech play. There are better players streaming than Mario, but none of them mech. HTOMario can be BM. Everyone can, especially when one is doing new things and sucking at them. The control group setup is definitely odd, but that's about the only accusation that holds any water. Mario did offer an explanation for that oddity, but better players than me would need to analyze that to determine its veracity. Overall, the evidence was grossly insufficient to proclaim Mario guilty, especially when one is doing what is right and assuming he is innocent until proven guilty. As in, actually proven. Suspicious isn't proven, we all do suspicious things.
Ironically, the best evidence to prove this is provided by HTOMario himself.
First of all, this is the replay provided by Yume, which shows the mismatched hotkeys and spam pattern:
http://drop.sc/346199 - Replay 1
To defend himself, HTOMario uploaded a replay to show that he can reproduce this bio style with the same hotkeys, even played it on stream he says.
http://drop.sc/346227 - Replay 2
If he is innocent, the two replays should show the same hotkey patterns and spam patterns. HOWEVER, if you just bother to look at the replay, you will see:
- In Replay 1, 3 is hotkeyed for barracks, 4 for fac, 5 for cc + ebay, 6 for starport, 1 + 2 for units
- In Replay 1, every "unit hotkey" assigned to 1 is also assigned to 2 simultaneously
- In Replay 2, 4 is initially hotkeyed for barracks (Never the case with Replay 1), then to 3, with both 3 and 4 getting used to select barracks sparingly. The production hotkey spam pattern is very different from Replay 1
- In Replay 2, CC is initially hotkeyed from 1 - 0 just like Replay 1, BUT throughout the game only 2 is used for selecting CCs, 5 remains UNUSED.
- In Replay 2, every unit hotkey is assigned to 1 WITHOUT also assigning to 2
This is just from looking at the replays with sc2gears' Hotkeys graph. Just with these observations it is 99.9% sure that the HTOMario from Replay 1 and Replay 2 are not the same player.
Onto looking from the APM chart:
The main tell here is the XAPM difference of HTOMario from these 2 replays. In Replay 1, an XAPM of 267 (+5%) means that the "screen APM" here is 267-254 = 13. In Replay 2, an XAPM of 304 (+1%) means that HTOMario has a screen APM of 304-299 = 5. This is more than double the difference between the two numbers. I concede this is not as major a tell, but there's more.....
Look at the Action Distribution chart:
- In replay 1 the distribution is 18% select, 40% hotkey, 31% right click
- In replay 2 the distribution is 29% select, 52% hotkey, 12% right click.
The action distribution of a player stays relatively even between games, and given that Replay 1 and Replay 2 are similar enough in length, this is a huge discrepency in the action distribution.
In conclusion, there is more than 99.99% chance that the two HTOMarios in Replay 1 and Replay 2 are not the same. This shows me two things:
1. HTOMario is just a dumb person. His evidence to defend himself is so obviously fake that its really insulting. In addition, this is the only game he bothered to play with his bio style to prove that he is innocent. Keep in mind all my analysis is from looking at the replay HTOMario HIMSELF provided to show that he is innocent. After going through his defense I find him to be EVEN MORE suspicious.
2. Something very fishy is going on around this HTOMario guy.
The community is soooo funny too. Why does it matter if the real HTOMario can get to GM by himself without boosting? Why does it mean it won't be better to be boosted a bit to get GM faster? The APM argument was from 6 months ago and may no longer be valid, but ffs just look at all the other the fucking evidence: the hotkeys, the spam patterns, etc. There are things that are very very difficult to change and for some reason people just choose to ignore them.
You say "suspicious isn't proven, we all do suspicious things." Well suspicions never get proven when people just ignore all the evidence provided to them. Have you try to look at the replays yourself? Just look at the replays yourself and everything should be clear as day.
EDIT: here are some links for you people to look for "normal HTOMario" replays so that you can compare them against Replay 1 (provided by Yume) and Replay 2 (provided by HTOMario) and just SEE FOR YOURSELF instead of saying shit like "but it's never officially proven that...." Just look at the evidence for yourself ffs.
http://drop.sc/players/US/3203375/HTOMario
http://www.ggtracker.com/players/142783/HTOMario
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If you feel this is still an on going problem , please make a separate post rather than using it to drive your own agenda
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1. HTOMario is just a dumb person. His evidence to defend himself is so obviously fake that its really insulting. In addition, this is the only game he bothered to play with his bio style to prove that he is innocent. Keep in mind all my analysis is from looking at the replay HTOMario HIMSELF provided to show that he is innocent. After going through his defense I find him to be EVEN MORE suspicious.
2. Something very fishy is going on around this HTOMario guy.
?? I spent 2 days dedicating to showing my bio play to disprove this rumor on stream... Having a positive win loss as pure bio in mid - high gm. Same hotkeys, strategies, apm.
I also stated I was trying to find different ways to play the game, different controls etc.
This is in no way related to the op and I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to smear my name.
I mean it's great you you did your homework (incorrect) but.. why the hell would I need a boost to grandmaster? I do it for sport as every race.. multiple times... per season, on stream?
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American Steel
Not all players that hurt poor little insects with their transformable racecars with blue flames are European. Say hello to HTOMario! Playing for Love Your Girlfriend, an up and coming team with players all over the world (who are in the process of picking up Tassadar and Genius into their roster), Mario has been doing very well for himself. Being in top Grandmaster with mech as well as high Grandmaster as random, while having a stream with over two thousand followers and releasing replay packs for the public, he is one of the most well known mech players you will find.
a few sentences later.
Now, HTOMario is originally from Belgium, but lives in America with his family
lol.
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On January 05 2014 08:23 JacobShock wrote:Show nested quote +
American Steel
Not all players that hurt poor little insects with their transformable racecars with blue flames are European. Say hello to HTOMario! Playing for Love Your Girlfriend, an up and coming team with players all over the world (who are in the process of picking up Tassadar and Genius into their roster), Mario has been doing very well for himself. Being in top Grandmaster with mech as well as high Grandmaster as random, while having a stream with over two thousand followers and releasing replay packs for the public, he is one of the most well known mech players you will find.
a few sentences later. Show nested quote +Now, HTOMario is originally from Belgium, but lives in America with his family lol.
What is wrong with that? Americans came from Europe, Asia, Africa so HTOmario is embodying the true American spirit! Americans are like the all-star of the world, we take the best of everything and claim it as our own and anything bad we bomb!
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On January 06 2014 04:57 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 08:23 JacobShock wrote:
American Steel
Not all players that hurt poor little insects with their transformable racecars with blue flames are European. Say hello to HTOMario! Playing for Love Your Girlfriend, an up and coming team with players all over the world (who are in the process of picking up Tassadar and Genius into their roster), Mario has been doing very well for himself. Being in top Grandmaster with mech as well as high Grandmaster as random, while having a stream with over two thousand followers and releasing replay packs for the public, he is one of the most well known mech players you will find.
a few sentences later. Now, HTOMario is originally from Belgium, but lives in America with his family lol. What is wrong with that? Americans came from Europe, Asia, Africa so HTOmario is embodying the true American spirit! Americans are like the all-star of the world, we take the best of everything and claim it as our own and anything bad we bomb!
I was like "wtf" then I realize it was true.
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On January 06 2014 04:57 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 08:23 JacobShock wrote:
American Steel
Not all players that hurt poor little insects with their transformable racecars with blue flames are European. Say hello to HTOMario! Playing for Love Your Girlfriend, an up and coming team with players all over the world (who are in the process of picking up Tassadar and Genius into their roster), Mario has been doing very well for himself. Being in top Grandmaster with mech as well as high Grandmaster as random, while having a stream with over two thousand followers and releasing replay packs for the public, he is one of the most well known mech players you will find.
a few sentences later. Now, HTOMario is originally from Belgium, but lives in America with his family lol. What is wrong with that? Americans came from Europe, Asia, Africa so HTOmario is embodying the true American spirit! Americans are like the all-star of the world, we take the best of everything and claim it as our own and anything bad we bomb!
If it works like that, then everyone is african since thats where the first human has evolved from monkeys.
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On January 06 2014 07:10 agahamsorr0w wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 04:57 phodacbiet wrote:On January 05 2014 08:23 JacobShock wrote:
American Steel
Not all players that hurt poor little insects with their transformable racecars with blue flames are European. Say hello to HTOMario! Playing for Love Your Girlfriend, an up and coming team with players all over the world (who are in the process of picking up Tassadar and Genius into their roster), Mario has been doing very well for himself. Being in top Grandmaster with mech as well as high Grandmaster as random, while having a stream with over two thousand followers and releasing replay packs for the public, he is one of the most well known mech players you will find.
a few sentences later. Now, HTOMario is originally from Belgium, but lives in America with his family lol. What is wrong with that? Americans came from Europe, Asia, Africa so HTOmario is embodying the true American spirit! Americans are like the all-star of the world, we take the best of everything and claim it as our own and anything bad we bomb! If it works like that, then everyone is african since thats where the first human has evolved from monkeys.
eh... we're not monkeys, we're all related to adam and his rib
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I just had a thought, a cool addition to this article could be going into the origins of mech, I mean way back in SC1 before brood war even. See who were the first pros to start using it. I know Nada is one of them but I'm sure it goes further back than that.
and despite what some undeservedly arrogant dumb mentally unstable individuals (cough cough) might say there really is no one person who started mech.
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On January 05 2014 07:25 vNmMasterT wrote:
In conclusion, there is more than 99.99% chance that the two HTOMarios in Replay 1 and Replay 2 are not the same. This shows me two things:
1. HTOMario is just a dumb person. His evidence to defend himself is so obviously fake that its really insulting. In addition, this is the only game he bothered to play with his bio style to prove that he is innocent. Keep in mind all my analysis is from looking at the replay HTOMario HIMSELF provided to show that he is innocent. After going through his defense I find him to be EVEN MORE suspicious.
2. Something very fishy is going on around this HTOMario guy.
The slander on Mario is ridiculous on so many levels. The guy has literally hundreds of hours worth of streaming at the GM level, so what is the point to go into such great detail over two replays, and what exactly is the charge here? So, he is GM level, but it's possible someone else played a game on his account? "Boosting" is a reach, to say the least, considering he archives all of his broadcasts on twitch.
Another thing, it's not that uncommon for people to borrow accounts. I'm not saying that he did that, but I remember last year(or 2) when Crank used one of Bischu's account for NA ladder... so, it's really not that big of a deal to begin with. You know, maybe someone didn't want/have the money for another account?
From what I have seen on Mario's stream, he interacts with the viewers and provides good commentary, and really seems to be committed to the scene. It's unfortunate he has to come into this thread and defend himself like this. His work has paid off with some love from the OP, and this stench of jealousy isn't becoming.
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I feel really sorry for the OP this thread has been flooded with avilo and his minions.
I sometimes watch Mario's stream he seems like cool guy, enjoyed the interview. Good job looking forward for more
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Avilo is a giant, prudish, asshole... "Gib me all credit, I am teh original!!!!" Some poor kid is angry he didnt get an interview and someone else did. Boo hoo. You dont see Day9 Running into all threads about husky and complaining that he streamed first "wahhhhhhhh husky wasnt teh first wai u gais liek him moar! Wahhhh."
What a bitch avilo is... rofl
User was banned for this post.
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Thanks for all the positive feedback, we have spoken to a few meching players and can say we have some new exciting interviews to come!
Also a big thank you for giving us some great ideas to play with
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Can't wait for more, especially more interviews with other mech terrans to see another side of the mech style besides that of HTOMario, since I really do love AviMech and goody mech. No knock on mario, but I never really liked his style of mech, too fruity for me
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On January 07 2014 11:51 NorthQuab wrote:Can't wait for more, especially more interviews with other mech terrans to see another side of the mech style besides that of HTOMario, since I really do love AviMech and goody mech. No knock on mario, but I never really liked his style of mech, too fruity for me
Too fruity? Whatever does that mean in this context? I am curious =D
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If avilo is the modern mechanic, it makes me nostalgic.
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Thanks for the great interview PoisonTV! I'm really glad you interviewed HTOMario. I really like watching his stream - always high-quality games, no balance whine, and decent interaction with chat. Plus, he's a married guy with a family like myself and I like seeing someone of our stamp do so well, especially with a lower-popularity style such as mech.
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Awesome to see Mario get some recognition. Been a fan of his for a long time. Keep up the good work.
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Too fruity? Whatever does that mean in this context? I am curious =D
It is very mine-based and has some crazy openers that involve super heavy aggression into mech, while I favor clinging to fast 3cc turtle, so by "fruity" i guess I just mean NOT 3cc turtle :D
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I would give massive recognition to both Avilo and HTOMario. Both excellent. Perhaps even more important, they both reach out and take some time to help the viewers and do their best to entertain. Lets not fool ourselves, streaming live is not the best way to prevent enemy scouting. These guys do it for the fans day in and day out.
In this world of internet, it is easy to see the negative. I'd be real disapointed if either of them chose to stop streaming to get more ranks up.
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On January 04 2014 08:30 avilo wrote:There's something/someone you seem to have left out of your article, the innovator of the raven style that's been using it since MLG DC 2010. But anyone reading already knows
You know, I just read this article, and I was waiting for a childish response like this.
What is that? You are 'the Innovator' of the Raven style?
You'd like to be, sure. There's also thousands of Bronze league innovators of Carriers and 120 Reaper builds.
You've never made Ravens (or anything for that matter) work at the prolevel, are respectless to anybody in the scene but still act all offended when you don't get specifically mentioned because you used a certain unit and never really made it work at the highest level?
I'm very sorry to bring it to you, but you're not the top contender you think you are, and you'll never be respected as much as all those pros as long as you don't act like it.
Very sorry for the OP to have his nice thread dragged down by this.
PS Obviously I'll be called a hater because I don't share Avilo's opinion and as such my opinion doesn't matter to him, but well. Don't care.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
TBH when I was searching how to battle against mech in PvT I found tons of information from Lyyna and his/hers(?) threads. The only thing I know about avilo is that he's a whiny player. Therefore I hope avilo will be left from these articles and replaced by Lyyna(I hope I'm writing your nick correctly).
Lyyna, thanks for all the nightmares you gave me with Mech it happen 
Also thanks for this article, which brought this nightmares back to my mind
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On February 14 2014 22:43 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 08:30 avilo wrote:There's something/someone you seem to have left out of your article, the innovator of the raven style that's been using it since MLG DC 2010. But anyone reading already knows You know, I just read this article, and I was waiting for a childish response like this. What is that? You are 'the Innovator' of the Raven style? You'd like to be, sure. There's also thousands of Bronze league innovators of Carriers and 120 Reaper builds. You've never made Ravens (or anything for that matter) work at the prolevel, are respectless to anybody in the scene but still act all offended when you don't get specifically mentioned because you used a certain unit and never really made it work at the highest level? I'm very sorry to bring it to you, but you're not the top contender you think you are, and you'll never be respected as much as all those pros as long as you don't act like it. Very sorry for the OP to have his nice thread dragged down by this. PS Obviously I'll be called a hater because I don't share Avilo's opinion and as such my opinion doesn't matter to him, but well. Don't care.
I think your argument is quite fair. Those type of comments are unnecessary, and it creates a bad impression if you act as if you are entitled to something.
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Pretty interesting article :D Should do more interviews like that ;D
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Hello everyone! Some have been asking after the part two of this article and I promise that you will be seeing it on TL. The issue is that there is a lot to do right now with school etc. and I have just not had the time to do a high quality write up, and I most certainly do not want to leave you with a draft of some rushed garbage. In early June I will no longer have school to worry about and I will dedicate my entire time to e-sport, which will result in me having time to write several of these articles a week. If you have any suggestions for other topics that you would like to see interviews or articles about, please leave them here or to sciicasts@gmail.com and I will start a draft for them as soon as possible.
Once again, I apologize for the part two not coming out quickly.
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EPT
