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http://ggtracker.com/matches/3740058
I don't understand. I did everything you are supposed to (I think). CC on high ground. Barracks close to edge. Enginering bay behind rax. He just kept sniping the scv building the cc and eventually destroyed it..........
Do I have to just accept it was bad luck in him choosing a coin flip build (if I went rax first with wall off the hold would be trivial) and my scvs being dumb when building my buildings? Am I supposed to keep halting production while the scv is on my side of the buildings or something?
CC on high ground is supposedly safe against this but if I still lose to 6 pool I might as well just build CC on low ground and flip the coin with opponent.
Actually one thing I wished I had done was cancel gas but the gas finished before I saw the attack. But even so, that extra 75 mineral return would not have saved my CC or given me enough money to wall off behind my cc which was the issue.
I swear there must be some micro trick I am missing but I just don't know it.
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On July 23 2013 16:05 Emzeeshady wrote:
It is perfectly safe if you do everything without major error. If you could provide a replay then that would be great.
Errrr...........
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On July 23 2013 16:05 Emzeeshady wrote:
It is perfectly safe if you do everything without major error. If you could provide a replay then that would be great.
Come on shady don't you know how to use GGtracker?
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I dont get why you wall with the barracks. It has way too much surface area and gets destroyed because it will never be done when the lings are there. Just wall with depot, cc, depot and delay the barracks a bit every time. It makes it so much safer, because the depot is done earlier and you can start to repair. (2 workers per depot on autorepair)
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10 depot, 14 cc, 15 rax is the most standard cookie cutter build lol. I'm just trying to understand why it's working for pros and not for me. I couldn't even blame bad macro or anything like that.
Had I walled off with depot, cc, depot as you suggest that would leave even more surface area for my CC and let it die off even faster.
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you need to micro your scv. everytime it is about to float to the outside you cancel and restart the building process. this way you can force the scv to stay on top of the building or inside.
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On July 23 2013 16:58 phos4 wrote:
you need to micro your scv. everytime it is about to float to the outside you cancel and restart the building process. this way you can force the scv to stay on top of the building or inside.
Yeah I thought it might be something like that. I guess when you are in a "holy crap I am getting 6 pooled" mindset you forget stuff like that like pulling off of gas.
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6 pool will always be able to cancel one of the building buildings at least every time I've seen it/done it this has happened. It can't be avoided since ling dps is faster than building hp gain, add in possibility of scv being sniped and things get more and more unlikely.It normally isn't game ending though, depends on your build and your micro... I remember Lucifron vs TLO he lost a ton of scvs to it but still stayed in the game for another ~10 or so minutes before finally being killed by TLO (WCS EU last season I believe, the KR seeds)
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Two things.
1. Make sure to micro your scv when it floats on the bad side of the CC, you want your cc to finish. If that scv dies make sure to put another one on it to rebuild right away.
2. You had the right idea with the ebay block, but if you had just built it a little bit further back (making a wall with the cc instead of trying to block off the barracks entrance with ebay/depot. You want to start that ebay as soon as possible (cancel gas if necessary) so that it has time to get up and then you can just repair spam. Your rax WILL die, so you need to rebuild one eventually not as part of the wall to chase away the lings.
Some maps you won't be able to do that, and you need to pay attention of your 1st depot positioning to find that out. If you look at newkirk, if you had placed your depot on the otherside you wouldn't be able to block with just a single ebay when your rax dies. On akilon you can do this if you place the depot on the side closer to your third. Same principle.. a lot of maps you can't do it though in which case you have to rely on micro and decision making to win after a 6 pool since you won't be able to hold your wall.
Here is a replay of what im talking about http://drop.sc/350505 regarding the ebay block.
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On July 23 2013 16:35 KingofGods wrote:
10 depot, 14 cc, 15 rax is the most standard cookie cutter build lol. I'm just trying to understand why it's working for pros and not for me. I couldn't even blame bad macro or anything like that.
Had I walled off with depot, cc, depot as you suggest that would leave even more surface area for my CC and let it die off even faster.
No, it has not more surface area on the cc.
Do we all agree that the real problem is the fact that lings do more dps than a building structure gets? So what is wrong with walling with a second depot? You can start it earlier, it done earlier, you can repair it earlier. It will delay your marines and oribtals a bit of course, but if you play CC first you dont want to attack anyways.
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On July 23 2013 17:12 Balla24 wrote:Two things. 1. Make sure to micro your scv when it floats on the bad side of the CC, you want your cc to finish. If that scv dies make sure to put another one on it to rebuild right away. 2. You had the right idea with the ebay block, but if you had just built it a little bit further back (making a wall with the cc instead of trying to block off the barracks entrance with ebay/depot. You want to start that ebay as soon as possible (cancel gas if necessary) so that it has time to get up and then you can just repair spam. Your rax WILL die, so you need to rebuild one eventually not as part of the wall to chase away the lings. Some maps you won't be able to do that, and you need to pay attention of your 1st depot positioning to find that out. If you look at newkirk, if you had placed your depot on the otherside you wouldn't be able to block with just a single ebay when your rax dies. On akilon you can do this if you place the depot on the side closer to your third. Same principle.. a lot of maps you can't do it though in which case you have to rely on micro and decision making to win after a 6 pool since you won't be able to hold your wall. Here is a replay of what im talking about http://drop.sc/350505 regarding the ebay block.
But isn't even when the SCV will go to the other side somewhat random? How effective is it if I just let the SCV build for a millisecond, halt, and then start again?
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Just a general question: I think i saw this in SPL/GSL and i always wall like this (right side, OP is on the left side):
+ Show Spoiler +
so i guess i have more surface, but b/c the rax is shifted 1 unit to the side there shouldnt too many lings to be able to hurt my rax (cause the edge of the cc is passable for lings) ?
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On July 23 2013 17:23 KingofGods wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 17:12 Balla24 wrote:Two things. 1. Make sure to micro your scv when it floats on the bad side of the CC, you want your cc to finish. If that scv dies make sure to put another one on it to rebuild right away. 2. You had the right idea with the ebay block, but if you had just built it a little bit further back (making a wall with the cc instead of trying to block off the barracks entrance with ebay/depot. You want to start that ebay as soon as possible (cancel gas if necessary) so that it has time to get up and then you can just repair spam. Your rax WILL die, so you need to rebuild one eventually not as part of the wall to chase away the lings. Some maps you won't be able to do that, and you need to pay attention of your 1st depot positioning to find that out. If you look at newkirk, if you had placed your depot on the otherside you wouldn't be able to block with just a single ebay when your rax dies. On akilon you can do this if you place the depot on the side closer to your third. Same principle.. a lot of maps you can't do it though in which case you have to rely on micro and decision making to win after a 6 pool since you won't be able to hold your wall. Here is a replay of what im talking about http://drop.sc/350505 regarding the ebay block. But isn't even when the SCV will go to the other side somewhat random? How effective is it if I just let the SCV build for a millisecond, halt, and then start again?
It's pretty random yeah, if you don't want to micro it's ok to lose scvs to it. Obviously it's very random and you're leaving it up to luck but unless you lose more than 4-5 scvs you should still be fine. The more important part of what I said is the ebay block location and timing. It's really important that you get the ebay down ASAP and in the right place..
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On July 23 2013 17:30 gingerfluffmuff wrote:Just a general question: I think i saw this in SPL/GSL and i always wall like this (right side, OP is on the left side): + Show Spoiler +so i guess i have more surface, but b/c the rax is shifted 1 unit to the side there shouldnt too many lings to be able to hurt my rax (cause the edge of the cc is passable for lings) ?
The way pictured here is better because it gives you the ability to wall with an ebay when your rax dies (which it will vs a 6 pool, regardless of positioning). Your way is fine vs a 10 pool or anything later than a 6/7 pool, since your rax will finish anyways. But vs a really really early pool you need the ability to ebay block to buy you time to get a rax up.
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On July 23 2013 17:14 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 16:35 KingofGods wrote:
10 depot, 14 cc, 15 rax is the most standard cookie cutter build lol. I'm just trying to understand why it's working for pros and not for me. I couldn't even blame bad macro or anything like that.
Had I walled off with depot, cc, depot as you suggest that would leave even more surface area for my CC and let it die off even faster. No, it has not more surface area on the cc.
Barracks takes up 3 spaces, supply depot takes 2. Something has to cover the extra space.
I think from now on I am going to give my rax maximum surface area and my CC less surface area knowing that my rax will eventually fall and keep my cc up as much as possible. But if my barracks dies too fast I might not have enough money to wall off behind......
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On July 23 2013 17:38 KingofGods wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 17:14 graNite wrote:On July 23 2013 16:35 KingofGods wrote:
10 depot, 14 cc, 15 rax is the most standard cookie cutter build lol. I'm just trying to understand why it's working for pros and not for me. I couldn't even blame bad macro or anything like that.
Had I walled off with depot, cc, depot as you suggest that would leave even more surface area for my CC and let it die off even faster. No, it has not more surface area on the cc. Barracks takes up 3 spaces, supply depot takes 2. Something has to cover the extra space. I think from now on I am going to give my rax maximum surface area and my CC less surface area knowing that my rax will eventually fall and keep my cc up as much as possible.
????
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0KFPFDW.jpg)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/qnw4nM3)
