EPT[H] Lost to 6 pool with CC first on high ground - Page 2
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
Of course do all ramps look like this. You dont use the rax to wall, you can build it anywhere else in your main. You can wall like this on every map in the ladder pool (except on korhal floating island, but who has this map not on veto  )I do CC first in every tvz and I wall like this every time. | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On July 23 2013 17:36 Balla24 wrote: The way pictured here is better because it gives you the ability to wall with an ebay when your rax dies (which it will vs a 6 pool, regardless of positioning). Your way is fine vs a 10 pool or anything later than a 6/7 pool, since your rax will finish anyways. But vs a really really early pool you need the ability to ebay block to buy you time to get a rax up. I just dont believe you. With my wall only 4 lings (if marines have the same size :D) can attack the rax, with the OP method 5 can. I simulated this with marines: Wallingwhilemarinesarecuddling | ||
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Balla24
2322 Posts
On July 23 2013 17:49 graNite wrote: WHAT? Of course do all ramps look like this. You dont use the rax to wall, you can build it anywhere else in your main. You can wall like this on every map in the ladder pool (except on korhal floating island, but who has this map not on veto )I do CC first in every tvz and I wall like this every time. Walling with your depot like that wastes money that you don't need to spend. You can wall with a rax to save money and get the wall up earlier. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Balla24
2322 Posts
On July 23 2013 17:51 gingerfluffmuff wrote: I just dont believe you. With my wall only 4 lings (if marines have the same size :D) can attack the rax, with the OP method 5 can. I simulated this with marines: Wallingwhilemarinesarecuddling I'm not arguing that haha, i'm just pointing out the fact that with the rax on the other side, you can wall off with an ebay when the rax dies. I'm not sure whether or not the 1 ling makes the difference between the rax falling and not (but i'm pretty sure it doesn't make a difference). | ||
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Balla24
2322 Posts
On July 23 2013 17:55 KingofGods wrote: Only halt production on the scv if it goes to the outside, once you halt production you immediately put it back on, this is to try to get the scv to resume construction on the inside. You do not want the CC to have halted production for long, because otherwise the CC can fall. If the scv dies while on the outside, immediately replace it.Yes, I have always made a conscious effort to give my barracks maximum surface area in order to reduce the surface area on my cc. And yet my cc still fell T_T. I think it comes down to how you micro your scvs. Do you keep halting production which scv is on the inside or do you constantly put another scv to continue the production when the building scvs inevitably act dumb and go to the other side? | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On July 23 2013 17:56 Balla24 wrote: I'm not arguing that haha, i'm just pointing out the fact that with the rax on the other side, you can wall off with an ebay when the rax dies. I'm not sure whether or not the 1 ling makes the difference between the rax falling and not (but i'm pretty sure it doesn't make a difference). Can someone who is master play this out with a trainings partner 5 times each? (maybe on a unit test map)? I have never seen an ebay in a wall in GSL/SPL, so i think it should hold fine (on statistical average). edit: fuck, spend my 900th on something constructive. jeeeezzzzz | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
On July 23 2013 17:54 Balla24 wrote: Walling with your depot like that wastes money that you don't need to spend. You can wall with a rax to save money and get the wall up earlier. Well you need a second depot to keep up with the scv production so I dont think it is a waste of minerals. and how does walling with your rax get your wall up earlier when it costs more and takes longer to build? | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Balla24
2322 Posts
On July 23 2013 18:00 gingerfluffmuff wrote: That's because 6 pool is VERY coin flippy so it doesn't happen very often. If they do, then it's most likely not on a map where you can ebay block. Can someone who is master play this out with a trainings partner 5 times each? (maybe on a unit test map)? I have never seen an ebay in a wall in GSL/SPL, so i think it should hold fine (on statistical average). edit: fuck, spend my 900th on something constructive. jeeeezzzzz To granite: you don't need the 2nd depot to continue scv production, @ 18 supply your 2nd cc finishes so that you can double orbital and make a marine so that you end up with 19/30 supply. And i say it gets your wall up faster because it blocks faster, it might not be "complete" but it is up faster. | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
On July 23 2013 18:07 Balla24 wrote: To granite: you don't need the 2nd depot to continue scv production, @ 18 supply your 2nd cc finishes so that you can double orbital and make a marine so that you end up with 19/30 supply. And i say it gets your wall up faster because it blocks faster, it might not be "complete" but it is up faster. I know you dont need the depot right at that moment, but you need a second depot in the near future. What about the ebay? That is a real waste. And I still dont get how a barracks blocks it faster when i can start a depot at 100 minerals why you would have to wait for 150. | ||
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Balla24
2322 Posts
On July 23 2013 18:14 graNite wrote: So what you're saying is you go depot cc depot, this is really bad, you delay your rax by 100 which loses you money since you delay your orbitals. When your 2nd cc finishes you go from 19 supply cap to 30 supply cap, that's a LOT of time before you need to start another depot. Obviously if you go depot cc depot it blocks faster but that's just not the right order. The ebay is ONLY if a 6 pool occurs. If you go depot cc depot obviously you can just repair and hold easily but if they don't 6 pool then your build falls behind.I know you dont need the depot right at that moment, but you need a second depot in the near future. What about the ebay? That is a real waste. And I still dont get how a barracks blocks it faster when i can start a depot at 100 minerals why you would have to wait for 150. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
Don't mine gas, build that ebay behind your barracks and have 3-4 scvs to repair your depot and in case you need to put one of them on the cc (micro the worker building your cc, if you give the "stop building" order and then right click the cc again it'll change the angle). You're going to lose your barracks so build one in a safe spot after you started your ebay. Your only goal is to stay alive, if you stay alive you'll have two cc's against a low econ zerg and you will win. There's nothing wrong with your build order, whoever suggested getting a 2nd depot instead of a rax is being silly. After you get your first marine out and you've held everything (dont forget to change your cc's into oc's) start mining gas, get a tech lab on barrack for stim and add a couple rax, then just macro by feel, getting 2nd gas with your factory and then push with your first medivacs or some such. GL! | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
Then both OC's are late, and the point of going CC first is almost moot because you have a 65 second LONGER delay to even STAT your OC. And then, you have nothing to shoo away zerglings. They can sit there and drain your money as you have to repair for those 65+ seconds for the rax to finish, then ~20 for the marine to finish. That is not a good idea. At all. On July 23 2013 18:00 graNite wrote: Well you need a second depot to keep up with the scv production so I dont think it is a waste of minerals. and how does walling with your rax get your wall up earlier when it costs more and takes longer to build? ...You don't need to second depot for some time in CC first. Like, you get gas, factory, reactor, bunker, and THEN 2nd depot... I know you dont need the depot right at that moment, but you need a second depot in the near future. What about the ebay? That is a real waste. And I still dont get how a barracks blocks it faster when i can start a depot at 100 minerals why you would have to wait for 150. Barracks has more HP a la it gains HP faster as it builds compared to a depot. It has a bigger footprint than a depot. It takes surface area off your CC by placing it properly, and lets them hit the Rax or depot. The Ebay is ONLY when they are going to break through, and you need to delay them further -- then you drop a ebay behind to further waste their time as you get your double OC and a marine out. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
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SacredCoconut
Finland121 Posts
On July 24 2013 01:32 c0sm0naut wrote: i lost my lowground CC to a 10p last night and came back to win the game, honestly, these kind of cheesy pool opening have no transition and you need to just focus on the basics (ie, going for hellions, 3CCs) Life would like to disagree with you. | ||
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
Make sure to always build your CC, if your SCV dies to lings while building have another one standing by. Then keep repairing while getting a marine out, you are miles ahead. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
Good thing i'll never be good enough to play vs life  my point is, at casual level it's better to just take the 3 CC's play standard hellions/mines/bio/medivacs and focus on good trades. you're not impossibly behind if you get bad luck and face a 10p, you're just slightly behind and need to draw out the game and make his advantage smaller. if you just go into one OC and bio + hellions and lose your army its often GG, if you throw down 3 CC you can come back. it only takes one good drop to equalize something like this really | ||
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