On July 24 2013 01:32 c0sm0naut wrote: i lost my lowground CC to a 10p last night and came back to win the game, honestly, these kind of cheesy pool opening have no transition and you need to just focus on the basics (ie, going for hellions, 3CCs)
Life would like to disagree with you.
Good thing i'll never be good enough to play vs life my point is, at casual level it's better to just take the 3 CC's play standard hellions/mines/bio/medivacs and focus on good trades. you're not impossibly behind if you get bad luck and face a 10p, you're just slightly behind and need to draw out the game and make his advantage smaller. if you just go into one OC and bio + hellions and lose your army its often GG, if you throw down 3 CC you can come back. it only takes one good drop to equalize something like this really
I don't really see how this is relevant to the thread?
On July 23 2013 17:30 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Just a general question: I think i saw this in SPL/GSL and i always wall like this (right side, OP is on the left side): + Show Spoiler +
so i guess i have more surface, but b/c the rax is shifted 1 unit to the side there shouldnt too many lings to be able to hurt my rax (cause the edge of the cc is passable for lings) ?
The way pictured here is better because it gives you the ability to wall with an ebay when your rax dies (which it will vs a 6 pool, regardless of positioning). Your way is fine vs a 10 pool or anything later than a 6/7 pool, since your rax will finish anyways. But vs a really really early pool you need the ability to ebay block to buy you time to get a rax up.
Balla's got it right here. SCVs can keep up this T formation pretty easily for a hold. Walling with depots is a little quicker, but less forgiving and harder to repair.
Forget about moving your building SCV around, using stop commands and building again. DON'T do it.
Think about it, each time you do this you are not building your rax/CC and thus not increasing it's HP. One SCV dying in a game where you get 6pooled doesn't matter at all. Those few extra hitpoints are however very important. Also if the building scv gets exposed to the outside, and zerg attacks this SCV then there is actually less surface area on the buildings - wasted DPS on the buildings.
Once the SCV dies you replace it instantly with a new one from the inside.
On July 24 2013 04:12 hku wrote: Terran's are so lucky to be able to CC first and have a chance at surviving a 6 pool. As a protoss player, I am seething with jealousy.
We are just better at walling, learn to wall your choke with your nexus and you can do it aws well...
On July 24 2013 01:32 c0sm0naut wrote: i lost my lowground CC to a 10p last night and came back to win the game, honestly, these kind of cheesy pool opening have no transition and you need to just focus on the basics (ie, going for hellions, 3CCs)
Life would like to disagree with you.
Good thing i'll never be good enough to play vs life my point is, at casual level it's better to just take the 3 CC's play standard hellions/mines/bio/medivacs and focus on good trades. you're not impossibly behind if you get bad luck and face a 10p, you're just slightly behind and need to draw out the game and make his advantage smaller. if you just go into one OC and bio + hellions and lose your army its often GG, if you throw down 3 CC you can come back. it only takes one good drop to equalize something like this really
I dont think that is wrong, but just saying 10p is cheese that has no transition is wrong. If life can use it as macro opening, that means if you just use your time to learn it you can use it as such as well. You may not be playing against life, but your not "insert good korean terran here".
Most ladder players will probebly just 10p, but there are players that have seen life and copied the transition from him. These players may even be much more comfortable/dangerious to play against in early mid game when opening 10p. Against this kinda player it may just be almoust unwinnable for even pro player even if you just survive.
On July 23 2013 16:35 KingofGods wrote: 10 depot, 14 cc, 15 rax is the most standard cookie cutter build lol. I'm just trying to understand why it's working for pros and not for me. I couldn't even blame bad macro or anything like that.
Had I walled off with depot, cc, depot as you suggest that would leave even more surface area for my CC and let it die off even faster.
On July 24 2013 04:12 hku wrote: Terran's are so lucky to be able to CC first and have a chance at surviving a 6 pool. As a protoss player, I am seething with jealousy.
Yeah buddy I wish my bunkers could attack without marines in them and I wish I could turn my orbitals into cannons! We each have our vices
On July 24 2013 02:42 DJHelium wrote: Polt holds it off vs Suppy perfectly here:
Make sure to always build your CC, if your SCV dies to lings while building have another one standing by. Then keep repairing while getting a marine out, you are miles ahead.
Ohh and for those that are gonna say that this wouldn't have worked if the ramp formation was different and he couldn't block with the engy. If you want to be ultrasafe just build the CC to the bottom of the raxx so that it has less surface are to be attacked.
But that leaves more area behind the rax that needs to be walled off which I think is impossible given the amount of resources the terran will have at that point.
There's nothing wrong with keeping a spare SCV right next to the potentially endangered one that's build the cc! This will allow you to immediately continue building the CC in case of SCV death.
Remember, you can't repair under-construction buildings, so continuous construction is the only way to ensure the wall holds.
Do normal 10 depot, 14-15 cc and rax after. Make sure to send a scouting scv before the six lings would arrive. Then if 6pool is the case make a hidden rax at your nat to make a few marines. Micro your scvs to not lose many. GG when marines out.
Positioning is everything in this situation its kind of Luck of the draw with your scv going to that side BUT you can fix it by pressing T and clicking on the building again and it resets and goes to the other side making it so the SCV can't be killed
Again it is somewhat luck of the draw but that does help ALOT especially if you time it just right and are quick about it....
Make sure to always build your CC, if your SCV dies to lings while building have another one standing by. Then keep repairing while getting a marine out, you are miles ahead.
I don't get why you would put down an ebay instead of another barracks as backup wall? It's only 25 minerals more has more HP and you can start marines right away... Maybe because it builds faster or smth?
Make sure to always build your CC, if your SCV dies to lings while building have another one standing by. Then keep repairing while getting a marine out, you are miles ahead.
I don't get why you would put down an ebay instead of another barracks as backup wall? It's only 25 minerals more has more HP and you can start marines right away... Maybe because it builds faster or smth?
Exactly. You want something that builds fast so that you can begin repairing it, since when it is being built you can't repair it.
The only reason polt won that game is because suppy did really horrible micro mistakes. 1) he doesn't use the maximum number of lings to bring down the rax. Only 4 attacking instead of 5 2) he can still get 1 ling in to attack the cc at the same time but his fat drones are blocking the way 3) assuming he didn't lose the game at those 2 earlier points he should bring down rax and then focus cc imediately.instead of attacking that engi bay + a little bit of everything I've spent the day 6 pooling a mate who wanted to learn how to defend with cc first and even on bigger map like starstation it's prob a split second to defend it but on akilon it's just not possible as i can tell.
I've been testing today and I think that the key is microing well the workers to the closest mineral patchs. See that Polt does the CC at 2:16 and for me it's even hard to do it before 2:20. Anyway, even with the perfect building times, I'm not sure if it's possible to hold in small maps considering a proper zerg micro, like Incand said.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/qnw4nM3)
