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Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 Next All
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
March 31 2013 08:02 GMT
#72
/in
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 01:55 GMT
#124
Not really, no. Considering those OP plans don't work.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 10:58 GMT
#200
The thing is denying mafia roles doesn't work too well anyways, and on top of that, if you try to coordinate it, it works even less.

The rolecop-rolevig combo alone has 2-3 possibilities on either end of the deal. (rolecop, capitalist, extractor & assassin, rolevig)
Sure, you might be a hero and get exactly the one they try to pick, but it's a crapshoot, and mafia inherently has the pickorder advantage due to possible coordination.

Rather, think about it like this: certain roles are not desireable for mafia to pick. Those roles, you don't pick early in the draft order. This includes all investigative roles (apart from rolecop), dreamflower, things like that. Not picking those in, say, the upper half, will mean more roles for town overall.
But having VTs is also very informative, so you really don't need to mind either way.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 12:04 GMT
#203
On April 04 2013 21:00 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 19:58 Restraining Order wrote:
But having VTs is also very informative, so you really don't need to mind either way.

Im trying to read between the lines here:

Are you advocating that, "Forced" VTs claim their intended role pick?

That way, if we trust the source, we know that the role is in play?

If so,
I think this is a brilliant idea.

Yes, that is what I am advocating.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 12:11 GMT
#205
On April 04 2013 21:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 21:00 Mocsta wrote:
On April 04 2013 19:58 Restraining Order wrote:
But having VTs is also very informative, so you really don't need to mind either way.

Im trying to read between the lines here:

Are you advocating that, "Forced" VTs claim their intended role pick?

That way, if we trust the source, we know that the role is in play?

If so,
I think this is a brilliant idea.

Depending on circumstances. I don't think this is a good idea at all if you are meaning forced VT's should claim when D1 starts.

They should if it's a 'dangerous' role.

Obviously, nobody cares if the last pick doesn't get Parity Cop..
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 12:25 GMT
#219
On April 04 2013 21:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 21:17 Caller wrote:
what i mean by it tis simple: any vt's claim their intended role, some mafia claim another role that may or may not exist. or maybe they claim a role a higher mafia picked, or they share a pick with a vt. who knows. all that does is give mafia a list of roles in the game, and it does zog all for us.

Absolutely correct. You have no way of telling who is telling the truth and you might end up lynching a lot of good town roles just to figure out who is lying.

I have no idea how you got from "VTs should share their inherent information" to "we lynch a lot of good town roles if they do that!"

How about you walk me through that thought process.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 12:42 GMT
#227
On April 04 2013 21:40 Palmar wrote:
Morning, do I have to read the planning phase?

No.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 13:35 GMT
#250
On April 04 2013 22:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 22:27 Mocsta wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
EBWOP: It's a possibility that they are town. If you are going to lynch them/cop them you are going to use roles/lynches that could be used otherwise just to figure out their alignment based only on "they could be scum".

If you are wrong about them being mafia, you give mafia information about town roles and where they are. What if mafia kills the town CPRdoctor on N1, and they have a copy cat? What if they swap the role?

People high on draft order tend to die early on either way because it's reasonable to assume they have the best roles in the game. By outing those roles you are giving mafia opportunities to narrow the possibilities where the good roles actually are.

I think where all this comes into play is that you are treating everything literally.

Perhaps when it comes to a "plan" that has not been fleshed out; that is the natural assumption to make. i.e. 1 hard rule that applies to all situations.

To me, the whole concept isnt black/white.

But thats the whole point of this discussion, to brainstorm / refine / implement.

Prior, I was not a fan of yam/sharrant force the draft pick plan. I still am not.

However, I do see merit if people choose to claim the role that made them VT. I am not trying to enforce this as mandatory by any means; I am hoping with enough information out there, people can make an informed decision for themselves.



Also this gives scum info and you should never give scum info.



Incorrect.

It gives both town and mafia info, which is advantageous to town, since mafia have their inherent informational advantage in the first place, and it'll grow comparatively smaller with it.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 13:36 GMT
#252
On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote:
oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite?

You mean, as opposed to claiming, you want people to claim. After you said claiming is nonsense and doesn't work.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 13:41 GMT
#255
On April 04 2013 22:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 22:36 Restraining Order wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote:
oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite?

You mean, as opposed to claiming, you want people to claim. After you said claiming is nonsense and doesn't work.


New rule, whoever tries to get someone lynched of a joke is scum.

RO is scum.

Am I mafia independently of the first sentence, or did I already try to get someone lynched without myself noticing?
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 13:46 GMT
#259
On April 04 2013 22:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 22:41 Restraining Order wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:36 Restraining Order wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote:
oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite?

You mean, as opposed to claiming, you want people to claim. After you said claiming is nonsense and doesn't work.


New rule, whoever tries to get someone lynched of a joke is scum.

RO is scum.

Am I mafia independently of the first sentence, or did I already try to get someone lynched without myself noticing?


Pointing out contradictions is pointing out that the dude is lying and therefore scum. So yeah.

Also WHO ARE YOU

If I wanted to point out a person is mafia, I would have pointed out a person is mafia. However, I did no such thing.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 13:48 GMT
#263
On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum.

The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game.

It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia.


RO: Thoughts on this?

Nothing I have not already said.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 13:51 GMT
#269
On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 22:48 Restraining Order wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum.

The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game.

It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia.


RO: Thoughts on this?

Nothing I have not already said.

You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said?

The thought is not necessarily wrong, but I wouldn't (and don't) worry too much about it.
You prefer to worry, that's fine too. Not much to add.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 15:46 GMT
#335
On April 05 2013 00:42 Caller wrote:
don't need to. it should be obvious.

yamato isn't so much, but agreed on oats.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 18:28 GMT
#423
Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 04 2013 18:37 GMT
#432
On April 05 2013 03:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 03:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote:
Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay.

This is like a scumclaim.


elaborate why not wanting to discuss your plan is scummy please.

You must have forgotten, but you also think I'm mafia.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 05 2013 01:23 GMT
#517
On April 05 2013 10:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 10:15 Mocsta wrote:
@ Rayn
Im not hard defending RO; I dont know where I stand with him yet.
Im saying your rational is not alignment indicative.
I thought it might also be beneficial to provide awareness of a scum filter for him.

These are the guys who are saying "i don't want to take a stance, i just.... I SET MY NUMBERS ALALALALALALALA.. I WON'T LISTEN TO SHIT, AND I HAVE NOT HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE BECAUSE OF ALALALALALALALALLA!

kill those guys.

But, but, that is not what you are actually doing though.

On April 05 2013 04:09 Shelvocke wrote:
The reason why this plan is awful goes beyond how well you can identify 5 town reads 16 hours in when setup is the only thing to talk about (which is simply pitifully if you arent aware). There is simply no way to force people to pick specific numbers. I wont be following it.

On April 05 2013 03:54 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 03:37 Vivax wrote:
Sadly, RO's wasn't a scumclaim. He could just shut up or lie about agreeing with sending in the right numbers while he doesn't.

I would like Palmar and VE to comment on this stuff and tell us who they would like to get the first drafts. Not used to them being so disinterested.


I don't care who gets first drafts and I don't intend to play along with any plan.

Feeling a little selective with our heuristics, are we?
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 05 2013 02:08 GMT
#539
6, 2 here.

I'll pick a role mafia wants, but not an important one, too far down for that. The joys of being average.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 05 2013 02:12 GMT
#547
On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 11:08 Mocsta wrote:
On April 05 2013 10:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On April 05 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote:
On April 05 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
and yeah, RO is scum i think.

Can you walk me through this please.

From what I saw, the only build up you had to claiming RO is scum is:
On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote:
Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay.

Where I am having trouble following you is:

I dont see how *only* scum would would or could make a statement like this.

RO is failing to contribute to anything at all. See his filter. No more need to be said. Good kill on D1/N1.

I still dont follow.

What has there been to contribute?

We have been talking about plans; just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them scum.

I think this is clutching at straws, and is providing preferential treatment. RO duly pointed out others that also did not agree with the plan; yet you seem to be singling him out specifically.

If you want traction: I am going to need more than "failing to contribute".
Otherwise, this looks like a weak attempt to "scum hunt" - which can indeed be construed as scummy.

In short, all I am asking for is: Why are ROs actions specifically scummy, and can not be a townie that shares a different mindset to that of yourself?
To answer: read his filter.. is not an appropriate answer, because I already disagree with you.. you're meant to be trying to convince me...show me what you see


RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.."

Kill him.

False, I never said I can't.
I said I wouldn't.
Don't let me stop you.
Restraining Order
Profile Joined February 2013
Qatar276 Posts
April 05 2013 02:15 GMT
#552
gonzaw
Austinmcc
Keirathi
Palmar
Mocsta

These 5 players picked [8] as their first numbers.
This means, at least 4 of those 5 are town.

On April 05 2013 11:13 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 11:09 yamato77 wrote:
I went 11,11

wtf how am I bottom

BM musta chose 11,11 too

Not really, sharrant picked 11 as first number too, and is above the 8's.
The host likely didn't receive his PM.
Don't let me stop you.
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