• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 00:11
CET 06:11
KST 14:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners4Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!24$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review Practice Partners (Official) [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1575 users

For Pros, Heart of the Swarm Means Fear of Failure

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
ScienceGroen
Profile Joined July 2012
United States43 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-12 20:00:19
March 12 2013 18:49 GMT
#1
Hey Folks,

I wrote a piece for Wired.com about the switch to HotS in the professional scene, and what it means for players. Particularly lower level foreigners and Western teams.

I'd love it if you gave it a read.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/03/heart-of-the-swarm/

To answer some common criticisms:

-I am not saying Mvp and Symbol are suddenly going to be out of a job after HotS. It's more about the fringe-players who very well could lose their place if their play slips a tiny bit. As well as the Ro32 Code S/Top Code A players who might now be able to knock off more established WoL players.

-Lots of people saying "This is nonsense, 80% of the players will be the same." Yes, I know. This is about the other 20%.

-This is for a general interest publication, and Wired.com readers aren't going to know much about eSports or SC2. So if there's a little sensationalism in there, I apologize, but I think it's for the good of getting people hooked on eSports with a strong narrative.

EDIT:
Apologies for not quoting the piece. And I've been told in the past that article links aren't classified as advertisements. It's just something I thought the community would be interested in.

Here's an excerpt:

For e-sports players, it can be something analogous to what Tiger Woods would have to deal with if the PGA suddenly decided that all the fairways on their golf courses were too long. Golfers who had gained an advantage in the past by having a long drive would lose that edge, and players with great putting and chipping skills would gain the upper hand.

That would likely never happen in golf, but for pro gamers it happens all the time. The courses they play on do change, and they’ll have to learn to use new types of clubs. Not everyone will be able to adapt.

“We make our money solely off of how successful we are and how much attention we get,” said Evil Geniuses captain Robinson. “If something challenges either, or both in this case, because of change or the need for adaptation then we are very afraid.”
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
March 12 2013 18:51 GMT
#2
“Players live on borrowed time and they know it,” said pro player and commentator Geoff Robinson, captain of the StarCraft division of Evil Geniuses, in an e-mail.

Isn't that the definition of irony ?
EZjijy
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1039 Posts
March 12 2013 18:53 GMT
#3
Correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe it is common courtesy to quote the article in your original post.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-12 18:54:46
March 12 2013 18:54 GMT
#4
Isn't this advertisement?

EDIT: yeah, what above said.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
March 12 2013 18:56 GMT
#5
On March 13 2013 03:53 EZjijy wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe it is common courtesy to quote the article in your original post.


A quote would be nice yeah, even if it's just to get a glimpse of the article.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
vinsang1000
Profile Joined January 2012
Belgium365 Posts
March 12 2013 18:58 GMT
#6
interresting, it's a point I didn't though of.
massivez
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium653 Posts
March 12 2013 18:58 GMT
#7
Yeh, some are trying to get an edge early at the game. But imo in like 6 months, those with worse mechanics will weed back out. And Koreans will dominate harder then ever before. We just need a Foreigner only league to sustain the foreign scene (like GSL or OSL) or even a proleague like format. Not that it needs to be implemented ASAP but around LOTV, else SC2 will get the same fate as BW.

Btw i see the same happening in LoL where you also can already see Koreans starting to dominate.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
March 12 2013 19:02 GMT
#8
On March 13 2013 03:51 Otolia wrote:
Show nested quote +
“Players live on borrowed time and they know it,” said pro player and commentator Geoff Robinson, captain of the StarCraft division of Evil Geniuses, in an e-mail.

Isn't that the definition of irony ?


Well, he did change his job description to that of a more supportive/background role. But the only he will be able to do that is if he maintains as high a level of skill as he can in order for his help/guidance to be effective. One doesn't need to win a GSL to know how to talk about the game--heck, winning an MLG (as of now) is a highly impressive feat for a non-Korean. Geoff is doing fine, I would consider him a successful pro-gamer.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
March 12 2013 19:05 GMT
#9
I don't think HOTS will kill careers i think players kill careers. The New expansion injects new life in the game. For awhile people will log on to play, people will watch streams its new excitement. But eventually you get pushed out of the game weather you are sick of it, or realize you reached your peak and its time to do something else. Happens in all sports. Its not a big deal, its nothing to be sad about. As long as the community shows up players will play.
sitromit
Profile Joined June 2011
7051 Posts
March 12 2013 19:22 GMT
#10
Hahaha, so Root domination inc guys, you heard it. Expect CatZ to and Minigun to dominate HotS with their innovative strategies.

It's as if IEM wasn't enough to show that all these beta heros who tried to get an edge by switching early and adapting are already being eclipsed by people with better fundamentals who have barely played HotS.
Canucklehead
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada5074 Posts
March 12 2013 19:23 GMT
#11
Like artosis said on sotg before, it will mean the end to some patch zergs.
Top 10 favourite pros: MKP, MVP, MC, Nestea, DRG, Jaedong, Flash, Life, Creator, Leenock
striderxxx
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada443 Posts
March 12 2013 19:28 GMT
#12
On March 13 2013 03:51 Otolia wrote:
Show nested quote +
“Players live on borrowed time and they know it,” said pro player and commentator Geoff Robinson, captain of the StarCraft division of Evil Geniuses, in an e-mail.

Isn't that the definition of irony ?


Exactly!! haha
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32743 Posts
March 12 2013 20:00 GMT
#13
I wouldn't really say they would be extinct, more eclipsed like always. Koreans will always have superior mechanics, decision-making and strategies, but that never put foreigners out of business, even those who never could take a series off a Korean. The way I see it, HotS will be a temporary equalizer for foreigners, but eventually, a good deal of Koreans will be able to defeat the best foreigners can field.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
March 12 2013 20:06 GMT
#14
Top Foreigners like Stephano, Scarlett, Thorzain, Ret (in HotS), will still be around. But, Koreans will dominate harder than in WoL most likely. Especially with 7 Kespa teams in the pool now.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
March 12 2013 20:08 GMT
#15
On March 13 2013 04:23 Canucklehead wrote:
Like artosis said on sotg before, it will mean the end to some patch zergs.



If that Flash vs Life game is any indication on the multi tasking and skill required for Zerg in HOTS I weep for foreigners
Wat
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
March 12 2013 20:11 GMT
#16
On March 13 2013 05:08 Tenks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 04:23 Canucklehead wrote:
Like artosis said on sotg before, it will mean the end to some patch zergs.



If that Flash vs Life game is any indication on the multi tasking and skill required for Zerg in HOTS I weep for foreigners


cannot wait.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
March 12 2013 20:12 GMT
#17
It's really nice that for now the gap between third rate players and top end gosus seem to have widened hugely.
No more of this "Xlord 5-0 Code S Terrans" nonsense :D
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
March 12 2013 20:12 GMT
#18
On March 13 2013 05:11 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 05:08 Tenks wrote:
On March 13 2013 04:23 Canucklehead wrote:
Like artosis said on sotg before, it will mean the end to some patch zergs.



If that Flash vs Life game is any indication on the multi tasking and skill required for Zerg in HOTS I weep for foreigners


cannot wait.



Same. I've watched a ton of WoL and that single game, on launch day of HOTS, was still one of the most exciting games of SC2 I've seen.
Wat
Canucklehead
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada5074 Posts
March 12 2013 20:14 GMT
#19
On March 13 2013 05:12 Tenks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 05:11 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On March 13 2013 05:08 Tenks wrote:
On March 13 2013 04:23 Canucklehead wrote:
Like artosis said on sotg before, it will mean the end to some patch zergs.



If that Flash vs Life game is any indication on the multi tasking and skill required for Zerg in HOTS I weep for foreigners


cannot wait.



Same. I've watched a ton of WoL and that single game, on launch day of HOTS, was still one of the most exciting games of SC2 I've seen.


Same. I have no doubt that flash vs life at the launch event will be listed as one of the best games of 2013 at the end of the year.
Top 10 favourite pros: MKP, MVP, MC, Nestea, DRG, Jaedong, Flash, Life, Creator, Leenock
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
March 12 2013 20:16 GMT
#20
On March 13 2013 05:14 Canucklehead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 05:12 Tenks wrote:
On March 13 2013 05:11 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On March 13 2013 05:08 Tenks wrote:
On March 13 2013 04:23 Canucklehead wrote:
Like artosis said on sotg before, it will mean the end to some patch zergs.



If that Flash vs Life game is any indication on the multi tasking and skill required for Zerg in HOTS I weep for foreigners


cannot wait.



Same. I've watched a ton of WoL and that single game, on launch day of HOTS, was still one of the most exciting games of SC2 I've seen.


Same. I have no doubt that flash vs life at the launch event will be listed as one of the best games of 2013 at the end of the year.



Unless now that is just run of the mill TvZ in HOTS, Which I can only pray is true

Granted it was two of the best players for their respected races
Wat
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
WardiTV Mondays #58
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
22:00
Masters Cup 150 Open Qual
Liquipedia
LAN Event
18:00
Day 3: Ursa 2v2, FFA
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 193
NeuroSwarm 174
ProTech124
Nina 123
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9609
Leta 545
EffOrt 171
Zeus 159
Tasteless 132
Noble 67
Bale 23
Icarus 8
League of Legends
JimRising 526
Other Games
summit1g10991
tarik_tv9796
WinterStarcraft397
C9.Mang0250
ViBE162
goatrope31
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick865
Counter-Strike
PGL179
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 27
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra772
• Stunt485
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 49m
LAN Event
9h 49m
Korean StarCraft League
21h 49m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 4h
LAN Event
1d 9h
IPSL
1d 12h
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
1d 14h
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
2 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.