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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for votes, I can tell you I don't have many. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for scum like you. If you let my town go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not analyze you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will lynch you. That was fun!  Now for real stuff: I don't like GreYMisT's first post. A few people had already called out Peashooter's post as not being particularly useful, but even after that, he still feels the need to scold him for it. It looks like he wanted to make a "strong" entrance and needed something to be strong about. I don't like goodkarma's posts so far either. They're quite bland in nature. The first one is a simply policy post pointing out pretty trivial/obvious stuff. I note that at the bottom he says that " I highly recommend we don't waste time on setup speculation and focus on finding scum.". Next post, he calls out VE, but again the way he disagrees with him is pretty uninspired. He's just mentions general things that are supposed to make up good town play, but doesn't give more solid reasoning than that. I contrast that to zarepath's post, in which he provides more solid reasoning for why he disagrees. Again, at the bottom of the post he says, "I humbly request we focus on scumhunting.". This is what sets me off about him, because both times, he only mentions general things that paint decent town play in broad strokes, and mentions that we should focus on scumhunting. However, he doesn't seem like he wants to do that himself yet. The first post is pretty excusable, because it was very early in the game, but before his second post, there was enough people/content in the thread that he could have had some ideas on players. However, he doesn't post any. He posts a general opposition to VE's plan, but doesn't say what that makes him think one way or the other about VE himself. Then after that, he asks the thread to scumhunt. This looks a lot to me like a player who wants to look like they're promoting a good atmosphere without doing anything contributory himself by mentioning good town play, but not making a real effort to promote it or following his own example. So, those are two of the people I'm suspicious of right now that I'd like to share. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 01:46 ThePeashooter wrote: Well shucks, I have the approval of a kitaman! Well then, let's get down to business. Coagulation I see no reason for you to continue being in this game. You have posted nothing of value and show no signs of doing so. Annoying spam is annoying. I always hated when people do this and that is not going to change. Why bother saying it? I know making my first post always feels contrived because I never know where to begin, but just saying something stupid and worthless is even worse. Here are his other two gems. Yeah, its only 3 posts. But I don't care. This trend is stupid and I don't feel like letting this game succumb to spam or stupidity. Vote: Coagulation Are you familiar with Coagulation's regular play? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 03:53 goodkarma wrote: Okay. I can understand it was early. But if we were to look in the here and now you still haven't provided anything that suggests who you think could be scum. I think what peashooter, and others here are getting at, is either post something that helps us scumhunt, or don't post at all. I am less inclined than others here to just policy lynch you. But you make it hard for us when you continue to spam the thread with emotional OMGUS responses. Hopefully you see where we're coming from. I would be most interested in hearing about your read on Grey. What are your own reads for scum? You've mentioned twice the need to scumhunt, and here you're chiding Coag for not providing anything in regards to who he thinks is scum, when you yourself have done the same. It's just more of the same general game play talk with no actual stances taken in regards to your own opinions. ##Vote: goodkarma Convince me you're not scum. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: @Mr. Wiggles: Sowy, but I'm not giving you any scumreads until I'm ready to. You claim I haven't been scumhunting, but if you were to look at my posting so far I have: 1) Worked towards establishing a pro-town atmosphere, a reasonable early goal 2) Been pushing others for reads to get a better understanding of their motives and thought process, which is very important to getting scumreads As far as cases go, which aren't the only component of scumhunting: As I said, when I'm ready. And I promise you it will be long before the end of the day. But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... 1) You haven't really worked towards a pro-town atmosphere. Saying "We need to scumhunt" doesn't do much to make anyone do anything. 2) You hadn't been pushing people (which you pluralized) for reads at that point. You asked one person what they thought of Grey. Asking other people what they think without stating any of your own opinion doesn't tell me anything about you. I already had made a post at that point saying that I didn't like that you were talking about how we need to scumhunt without doing any of it that we could see yourself. The rest of this defense is pretty funny. You're basically trying to deflect attention away from yourself and towards me. I'd made two posts at that point. One saying that I thought you were suspicious, and another following it up when you continued the same behaviour. I don't feel that constitutes tunneling. As well, you say I should focus my efforts on getting people to post. But, that is a fruitless endeavor, as saying "Please post", is unlikely to get anyone to. Instead, presenting my thoughts on scum is more likely to get people to post, as this gives them something to actually talk about. Also, doesn't that go against what you've been saying? Why should I stop poking you (scumhunting), and try to do something useless instead? Lastly, you need to look up what lurking is. I don't see a reason to change up my vote. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 09:27 Wade Fell wrote: There is a possibility he's a smurf of a younger player who hasn't heard of coag, or he literally made his account just before this game started, just to sign up for the last spot. I consider both of these possibilities somewhat unlikely. And, even considering the apparent vacuousness of his vote on coag, he hasn't taken a stance on GK or Geript or really anyone or anything, ignoring all other discussion in town to tunnel his target. This is an easy way for scum to avoid meaningful interaction with town and giving out reads. We don't know anything about his thought-process, so of course it seems WIFOM-ey-- but his play absolutely prevents us from clearing the wine from in front of us. I'm not saying he's a bad scum player-- this is a clever ruse. But he is scum. Town would have an opinion on GK, ESPECIALLY town pushing another lynch. Can this guy really be considered to be "pushing" coag given that he hasn't tried to stop the GK lynch at all? He's putting forth a simulacrum of what a townie does. Clever, but not enough. The thing about this analysis, is that he hasn't done anything at all since he called out Coag. I think it's disingenuous to say he's tunneling Coag when he made a post calling him out, I asked him if he was familiar with his meta, and he freaked out within a short time frame. I agree that I wouldn't say he's pushing Coag, but we don't know if he's just apathetic to pushing it, or he agrees with other cases since he's gone inactive. So I don't really have warm fuzzy feelings about the guy, but I think your case is somewhat misrepresentative, just because he hasn't posted and it's basing things as though he's actually been around to exhibit that behaviour. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I think I need to wait for him to post some more to get a more solid read. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 11:07 Wade Fell wrote: Will your thoughts on him be the same if he's gone for another 6 hours, wiggles? What if he's gone for the rest of the day? I have someone else in mind for the lynch, and then a vig can just get rid of him if possible. He has to post sometime. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 13:15 ThePeashooter wrote: So to expand on what I was saying earlier. I think Coagulation has only shown himself to be more scummy. I was more or less making a casual prod at him to get a reaction and his response was horrible. I truly do not know why no one gave it more attention, but I will explain. He basically missed the whole point. I'd prefer he was inactive until he became useful as opposed to just posting worthless dribble. Then he just decides to attack me without actually providing anything useful, continuing to completely miss the point I was jabbing him anyway. He could just be stupid, but in mafia, I have found it's wiser to assume Malice before excusing stupidity. This is the post that really did it for me. I get it, I accused you. You come out at mad as hell, then say you want to lynch me, but immediately try to absolve yourself of responsibility if it goes wrong. When you combine that with Wade Fall wanting to kill me it could easily snowball and he would still have his wishy washy read and be able to deny responsibility. Then he leaves again without ever having said anything constructive or useful. To make a few bullets: 1. Spams and posts nothing of value. 2. In response to that he attacks a strawman. No one ever called him inactive, we said he was posting nothing of value. 3. Thinks I'm really scummy and refuses to actually truly commit on his accusation, which looks like he wants to divert blame if it goes bad. 4. Leaves again without ever actually contributing anything. I truly don't see any reason to keep him around. Which is why I would recommend voting for him over GK, particularly if GK posts something of substance. I am currently leaning more heavily on Coagulation being a better candidate. I would like to hear Mr. Wiggles respond to this case though. I actually find this a little tough to respond to, because most of my stance towards Coag is based on gut feeling, so that makes it harder to put it into words and explain adequately. Basically, Coag makes short posts a lot of the time, and spams sometimes. He will also post emotionally sometimes. It depends a bit on context though. If he's been playing here recently and he got called out for spamming or not being present in the thread 24 hours a day, I could see him making those posts towards you. If he's scum though, he's smart enough to post like that in order to leverage it to his advantage somehow. In my experience, he isn't the most useful player on Day 1, and starts to have better reads and to share those reads and go after players on later days. That's why I'd be hesitant to lynch him right now. I'd rather wait and just see how he plays. If he doesn't do anything, we can lynch/vig him, otherwise, he'll start to pull his weight. He doesn't play the same as a lot of other people, and I guess it's a little similar to Kenpachi or something. Games I've seen sometimes recently have people wanting to kill Kenpachi because he posts a lot of one-liners and some spammy throw-away posts. But, that's just the way he plays, and people aren't used to it. Coag is kind've similar, unless he's changed since I've played with him. So, I can't contradict that his posts haven't had a ton of bearing on the game so far, or that his response to you was a bit disproportionate, but I can't say I want to lynch him for it, since lynching him would basically be a coin-flip at this stage of the game, as I don't think the way he's been playing is really indicative of his alignment. You can try to policy lynch him, but it won't do anything. You'll just do it for a few games in a row, and he'll just stop playing here for a while. I don't see him changing his play-style just because some people don't like it. tl;dr: Wait and see? I can't make a judgement call one way or the other as far as his alignment (i.e. he's null to me), so I think a different lynch is a better bet to hit red. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Since you seem to know his play intimately, BH, is there anywhere I can read where he was put under pressure or threat of lynch? If there's examples as both alignments, that would be nice. I didn't follow any of his games, so I can't find it easily without reading them all. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote: Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out, gk isnt either i think. Since i think you're the guy i just mentioned i might actually change my mind about you. Could you look at cosmicomics when you have time? Also sandro and especially his town meta. Never seen him make such an entrance. It's not like he just calls him Yamato in passing, he calls him Yamato and then says he thinks that's who he is. I'm not going to get into the WIFOM of how he guessed him or not, because I have no idea how close they are, how much they've played together, etc. Can someone provide some additional reasoning on how this actually makes him scum, and how this is enough to lynch him? I'm not really seeing it. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 18 2013 03:24 Coagulation wrote: he could of easily put that in when he seen his slip to cover his ass. in fact thats what it looks like. seems out of place for sure. why did he not discuss this in the post where he uhh you know made the wild random accusation. What? If he saw a slip, why wouldn't he just not click up a line and hit backspace a few times instead of leaving it in and typing another line? That doesn't make any sense. That's also the first place I see him calling Peashooter Yamato. Did he call him Yamato before? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
For the points you bring up against him, I don't think they necessarily point to him being scum. We had a couple people voting for others because of them doing things they perceived as being anti-town. I don't think it's good play, but I don't think it necessarily points to the people doing it as scum, since it's something people tend to do commonly. Then, I don't see him being that inconsistent. He says that he doesn't like the post GK had just made, but that he isn't ready to lynch him yet. He then says that he disagrees with BH's meta case. The reason I don't see this as inconsistent, is because in contrast to BH, he doesn't call GK as being town. DP has a more moderate read of GK, saying that he isn't ready to lynch him, in contrast to BH, who asserts that "This is town GK.". So, he's not questioning it because of meta, he's questioning that BH sounds almost 100% sure that GK is town in that post based only on meta. With reference to the above, I don't really see him as attacking and defending GK in a scummy way. He says he doesn't like his posting, but that he doesn't want to lynch him. He's actually taking a stance on the lynch, which I don't think scum would do if they were playing the middle like you're implying. If he wanted to attack and defend GK, he wouldn't give a definite answer on whether to lynch him, because that means he can't set himself up to pick a side later depending on how popular opinion goes. So overall, I don't think the case is strong enough to lynch DP. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 18 2013 04:57 sciberbia wrote: Wiggles, how would you feel about a GreyMist or zarepath lynch? I'm actually feeling the GreYMist lynch right now. I didn't really like the way he entered the thread, and stated so earlier. When he posted later, he just made a post to Dr.H, and didn't respond to any of the posts against him. His "trap" seems pretty contrived to me. When asked about it by Kita, he doesn't respond. Then, his actions strike me as opportunistic. He hops onto GK, which was the major wagon, then when focus shifts somewhat towards Vivax, he quickly agrees with that case as well. He defends against the Sandroba lynch, but realistically, it wasn't going to happen at that point, because he had gone inactive. So, that makes that lynch really easy to defend, since a lot of it is based on activity. I also like the Ryu's case against him, and agree with a lot of it. On March 18 2013 05:18 VisceraEyes wrote: No I'm fine with GreYMisT for now. He might be scum but the way he's approaching scumhunting feels genuine and I'm not interested in a GM lynch today. This nonsense about a "trap" is completely manufactured. I read GM's post about "I've been waiting for this" as "You've been saying you're scumhunting and I've seen no proof. Now you've posted it and I'm excited." How do we know that though? He doesn't have any posts before then mentioning any opinion about GK. Also, kita asked him about the "trap", and GreY completely ignored him. He didn't deny that it was a trap, and didn't provide any explanation at all about what he meant. That seems evasive to me, because instead of clearing up confusion, he just lets it slide, like maybe people would forget about it. As for GK, I'm somewhat less sure of my read now, after his recent posting and BH's meta defense of him. Looking at his past games, he does seem to have a distinction between his town and scum play, and his play this game is closer to his habitual town play. That isn't enough to completely clear him though, but his recent posts have done a bit to make me feel better about him. So right now, I'm not as strongly convinced he's scum, and might move my vote. I need to do some stuff, so I probably won't post for a while. I want to see how the situation evolves and how GreY responds to points brought up against him, and to Ryu's case. I'll be back to post before the deadline. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
The GreY situation has put us in a bad position now, because he's not giving us anything to work with. He's either town who's given up or mafia who isn't going to give any information because he thinks he's dead. So all we have to work with is his earlier posts, and those get me to think he's scum, as per my earlier post. So, that's where my vote's going. I don't know if I'll be back to read or change my vote before the deadline. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I pray the Town my soul to keep, If I shall die before I wake, I pray the Town my soul to take. Then he'll really be dead tired YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH  I haven't really read too deeply since night time. I've been sort of skimming over the thread and reading a bit more for certain posts/posters, but that's it right now. I won't be awake to post stuff right before the deadline, so I've weighed between posting some stuff now about reads or just waiting, and I've opted to wait. I'm waiting to see what happens with the day post, and I haven't really gotten to pay close attention to the reactions to the GreY flip. Any post I make won't be much better than a Day 1 read, so I don't think it will help much as compared to the possibility of it becoming WIFOM if I die. I noticed some people questioning my decision making regarding GreY's lynch, and my last post before the flip, so I'll go a bit into my thought process. Basically, GreY was someone I was watching throughout the day. I thought he was scummy, and Ryu's post lined up a lot with what I was thinking about him. I wanted to see how GreY would react or try to defend himself, but unfortunately he never did. He just gave up, which put us in a crappy situation, because you can either weigh it as a townie giving up, or as a mafia ploy. Based on how he acted earlier, I concluded he was more likely to be scum, and voted for him. I said it was a bad situation, because when he just martyrs himself and acts apathetically, he doesn't give us anything else to work with, and you can't just drop the case because he stopped posting. I'll watch the thread for a little less than an hour if anyone has questions about some things for me. I don't really want to post a list of reads though. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 19 2013 13:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Why not? Because if he's town he's a free shot on a strong role paired with a potentially strong player for scum. Makes more sense to wait until day time if you had to do it. @BH/Geript: Can you two cut it out? It's a game, you don't have to get personal. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
About the Peashooter case. Can someone point out the scum motivations in his posting to me? I see there's a case, but some of it seems like it's on an emotional basis, and some it's based on activity, neither of which I see as being valid for calling him scum. Reading through his posts, I don't see scum motivation though. He's not trying to misdirect us, and he's not trying that much to fit in and hide. The feeling I get from him is that he's just pretty angry, but it seem honest. For example, he got all mad at Coag, but then later he gets all mad at Kenpachi for similar reasons. So, he's consistent with it. Deleted a bit about layabout, I like his recent posting. I'm waiting on a couple of other people to continue posting. I'd like to see how they react to recent developments. As for VE/BH, I don't want to lynch into them right now. I'd rather let scum or vigs sort them out for us. I find them hard to read, because they play very emotionally, and they do/say a lot of things I find scummy/disagree with from a play perspective on a regular basis. If VE was actually shot, and BH is a mason, then scum will have to go after them sooner or later. If they don't, they're either going to start to doing good work as town, or else they're going to out themselves as scum, because if I remember right, their scum play isn't the greatest compared to their town play. I think we can find better targets for today. I'm going to do some stuff, and then read through some of the other posters who haven't really caught my attention or who have been avoiding the spotlight. I feel there's a good chance of finding scum among them. | ||
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