EPTThis Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
Obvious rule number 1: no one calls for a duel unless we have a majority of the thread agreeing on it. Obvious rule number 2: we use as much of the day as possible before calling for duels. Anyone ignoring rules 1 or 2 should be put under extreme scrutiny for acting against town goals. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 25 2013 03:27 yamato77 wrote: If anyone duels me this game, expect to get destroyed. If we all agree on someone to lynch, I'll duel them and make sure it goes through. Do you not agree that the two worst looking players should duel then? | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:05 iamperfection wrote: this guy is the scummiest guy in the game so far in my view says he is excited he is town then proceeds to do nothing discuss. Lol, it was Sunday, I was out. Gimme a break, I'm catching up now. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 03:29 Snarfs wrote: Lol, it was Sunday, I was out. Gimme a break, I'm catching up now. Update: Up to page 20 now and I would kill Hapa solely based on his reasoning for backing off on iamp. Didn't make any sense (others have said it) because iamp didn't change at all. Also, I didn't like this line from thrawn: so Oats, why so scared to attack marv? It seems like a really weird mindset. Scared to attack... should be more like "pressure" or why would you back off... not "scared to attack" - that seems to be attempting to incite Oats as opposed to get a read on him. full quote: On February 25 2013 11:16 thrawn2112 wrote: I don't like how quickly Oats backed down on his suspicions of marv. He goes from "kinda suspicious" to so Oats, why so scared to attack marv? Going through last few pages now. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
Right up until page 20 when a few more people showed up in the game, lots of talk was on Hapa but Corazon completely ignored that discussion and went after Oats, if I recall correctly. I'm a little rusty on how to interpret that, but it seemed noteworthy. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:04 cDgCorazon wrote: Are you serious? I went after the fact that Oats was being inconsistent. What I said had nothing to do with the back and forth and forth and forth between all the experienced vets (which I will get to reading right after I post this). That was a really weak point to bring up, and I'm really surprised that you've decided to focus on that instead of everything else that has gone on. And I'm surprised that your response to me doesn't include thoughts on hapa. Please entertain me? | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:12 cDgCorazon wrote: Maybe you haven't read the thread enough... Yea, I saw that. It just felt weird when hapa was a big focus that you didn't mention him at the time (other than to say you were going to look into it) so I made a note of it. Since marv and yamato seem pretty happy with you so far though, I'm not going to really push you on this one since it's not a big priority and would probably just derail things. As I said, just making a note of things. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
I agree Dein also looks flimsy but these two are my biggest concerns. Especially Keirathi's "catch up on the thread" followed by essentially mimicing + buddying marv: On February 26 2013 01:09 Keirathi wrote: Holy thread explosion, Batman. Sorry, I got super busy yesterday afternoon, then when I got home last night my power was out. Catching up now. On February 26 2013 02:47 Keirathi wrote: Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless. So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other? | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 07:44 Alderan wrote: Ok so I made a post on my best read right now which is Dienosore. If I had to pick two I'd go with Snarfs. Reason being I think early in the game your best chance to lynch scum is identify the low hanging fruit, ie. those that embody both scummy play and "noob" play. My idea is a bit WIFOM'y but anytime I've been mafia it's never been the experienced player that gets targeted early, it's always the seemingly "newer" player who leaves some subtle clue. Experienced players seem to make it through the first day without attracting too much attention, and as such need more time to evaluate. Snarfs filter is tough because it's obviously limited (not that I have much room to talk) but the major issues are just the pure conjecture coming out+ Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 04:50 Snarfs wrote: Also adding this so I don't forget later: Right up until page 20 when a few more people showed up in the game, lots of talk was on Hapa but Corazon completely ignored that discussion and went after Oats, if I recall correctly. I'm a little rusty on how to interpret that, but it seemed noteworthy. halfheartedly probing questions with no follow-ups In hindsight, I shouldn't have posted that. I should have wrote it down in a notepad or something, but I was on my phone and felt like airing out an observation to the rest of town. For the record, Corazon is not even close to my top 5 after some honest consideration. As I've said repeatedly, it was just an observation. + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2013 03:59 Snarfs wrote: Do you not agree that the two worst looking players should duel then? And then, there's whatever the hell this is. It's a question. Which he answered. And which 2 or 3 other people took up questioning him further on. At first I was taken aback by yamato's stance, thinking there's no way town could think that's a good idea, so I questioned him and watched as he responded to marv & co. Then I remembered that he just came off an impressive victory over scum and is extremely confident right now and things started adding up as to why he could be so cocky. Reading through the thread in one sitting gave me the chance to see just how everyone's feelings have been progressing. Yamato and later Marv have been increasingly "suspected" as town, for better or for worse, and as such it seems that rather than getting in a pissing match with townies, Snarfs took the easy way out, the way that he thought would not garner that much attention. I decided it'd be pointless to continue questioning Corazon since he seems really town aside from that single observation. Again, it was probably a mistake to point it out in the thread. But GAIZ!!111 He said he didn't want to "derail things". Let's think though, doesn't that sound similar to Dienosore's "muddy up the water" quote? Spoiler + Show Spoiler + It does Similar strategies, similar actions, and guess who haven't even mentioned each other yet this game..... I just mentioned him. He looks bad, but not as bad as hapa/keirathi and possibly thrawn. I do need to read more of thrawn again though. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:06 Alderan wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 07:58 Snarfs wrote: In hindsight, I shouldn't have posted that. I should have wrote it down in a notepad or something, but I was on my phone and felt like airing out an observation to the rest of town. For the record, Corazon is not even close to my top 5 after some honest consideration. As I've said repeatedly, it was just an observation. It's a question. Which he answered. And which 2 or 3 other people took up questioning him further on. At first I was taken aback by yamato's stance, thinking there's no way town could think that's a good idea, so I questioned him and watched as he responded to marv & co. Then I remembered that he just came off an impressive victory over scum and is extremely confident right now and things started adding up as to why he could be so cocky. I decided it'd be pointless to continue questioning Corazon since he seems really town aside from that single observation. Again, it was probably a mistake to point it out in the thread. I just mentioned him. He looks bad, but not as bad as hapa/keirathi and possibly thrawn. I do need to read more of thrawn again though. What do you see in Keirathi's filter that you don't see in Thrawn's? Keirathi's filter is shorter and easier to pick things out of. He made it clear he was going to look at the thread and perform analysis, but then didn't when noone pushed him for it. I guess, like marv said though, he could just be away... just the fact that he took time to create that one kinda terrible post though... I dunno, I don't like it. It was actually thrawn's swap between thinking iamp was scum then not scum then back to scum that I kinda thought was indecisive and towny... not well thought-out and planned like I'd expect from mafia. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:06 Hapahauli wrote: Snarfs I initially read his first post as enthusiastic, but the rest of his (short) filter reads as fake-contributions. He offers a neatly packaged reason for why he wants me dead. No debate, no nothing, he just supports killing me right away in one small sentence. I'm still not sure why your stance flipped on iamp. It's very possible I missed your explanation of this already, but your reasoning at the time made zero sense given iamp's general aggressiveness never really changed. It looked exactly like yamato called it: making up an excuse to jump off of a wagon. If you've expanded on your reasoning, then I missed it and I still don't see it skimming quickly over your filter. He then moves on to "attack" thrawn in the weakest manner ever. He doesn't call thrawn scummy. He just "doesn't like" one of his posts and calls it "weird," which is hilarious considering he's attacking thrawn for the very same thing. Notably, he's never mentioned thrawn in any of his posts afterward, or has attempted to follow up on his questions to thrawn. I still haven't had time to look more into thrawn's filter... As I said at the time, it was just a funny feeling from one of his posts. I haven't analyzed his play at all yet so I don't have much more to go on :/ In this post, he again takes this really passive questioning of another player. He seemingly has reasons to think Corazon is scummy, but drops it because "Marv and Yamato are happy." For the record, I currently don't think Corazon is scum. Pointing that out at the time was a mistake that I made. I should have just noted it down and continued reading, but since I was posting on my phone rather than computer, I didn't have anywhere to take notes so I just wrote it in the thread. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 11:54 cDgCorazon wrote: If they do that we will all know they chose lynchbait and it will make them look even scummier. If you want to ask your top two scumreads to duel, go ahead. Remember that they have to pull the trigger and if they don't, we can't lynch them. That's the dilemma provided to us by the set-up. It's all just set-up speculation. None of us know how this process is going to go. I feel like there is no fair way to go about this whole "dueling" thing, but forcing one person to duel and letting them choose the other seems like the fairest way to go about things. Of course if you don't want to do it fairly you need to convince the town on two scum reads, which seems a lot harder than what I proposed. Do you have any alternatives? I agree with Oats on this one. it doesn't make them look scummier because it's impossible for us to say whether they thought the other person was lynchbait, or just mafia. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 12:08 Acrofales wrote: Only if a majority of town votes for the lynch bait. The idea is not entirely without merit. One of which is that we have no real way of preventing it. Town has no way of forcing someone to duel (I presume, there may be powers of course), so whoever is going to duel will have to participate enough to challenge someone. Now there's two scenarios: 1. The first duelist is town. In this case, it would be monumentally stupid play for a townie to duel someone he has a town read on. For instance, if Iamp is town, him dueling thrawn would be dumb, because he doesn't believe thrawn is scum (regardless of his reasons, you have to respect people's reads). Putting a townie in this situation is forcing that townie into a scenario he thinks is lose/lose: he chooses option C, to duel his scumread, the thread gets angry, lynches him and is down a townie. 2. The first duelist is scum. Lets assume the second scumread we want him to duel (assuming we can even agree on that) is a townie. Of course he agrees. He then tries his damndest to argue his way out of getting lynched. Maybe the fact that he was compliant persuades some townies to vote for his opponent. Now lets assume the second scumread is another scum. In this case the scum would be monumentally stupid to duel that opponent, as it is guaranteed scumdeath. He therefore picks his strongest scumread. How is this distinguishable from the town equivalent? Only by good analysis. So, we need good analysis in all cases. Might as well do away with the bias from trying to force people to do shit they don't want to do. This way the scumspect also has to explain why he is dueling that person. And he'd better be convincing, or he'll end up being lynched anyway. I like this plan quite a bit better than the original: this one has some of the kinks worked out of it  Ah, actually Acro, I like your explanation better. This makes sense to me; forget what I was saying. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:06 thrawn2112 wrote: I'm not willing to commit to a read on cora yet. Nothing he's posted so far is all that alignment indicative, coming from him. As for yamato... maybe slighty town? I disagree with the logic behind nearly all of what he's said so far but he's acting in a townish manner. Iamp could be scum. All he's done is drop off a town read and comment on how useless the thread is. a) I'm not sure how he got different feels from iamp and yamato early game. Both seemed quite abrasive and had an "i don't care what anyone thinks of me attitude". Once I warmed up to one of them being town, it was easy to warm up to the other being town - seems contradictory to find one's way of acting townish and the other mafia-esque. b) I also see what people are saying about his random appearance trying to get hapa to duel someone when he was under pressure without any sort of explanation himself. c) Also, his read on Acro and follow up feels like he thought that since he made this post: [link] He feels like he should commit to a read on someone here: [link] I don't think Acro is a worthy candidate. This line of thinking feels forced. I'd definitely be fine with thrawn being one of the duelists. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 12:46 cDgCorazon wrote: If we all agree dodging a duel is an automatic lynch all we need is one person to duel them and we just immediately kill who dodged the duel. kk, that makes sense. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
Plus, look at town sentiment at the time the duel was called. At the time of his action it felt like people wanted to see Keir hang. Then, you have Keir essentially egging Adam on, by saying things like Adam would never have to prove that he was serious about dueling people. None of this changes the fact that until Keir was called out for his terrible night 0 play, he was one of the scummiest. He had claimed he was going to catch up with the thread and all he came back with was essentially an echo of marv. I'm sticking with my own read on this one. Adam looked like he was someone who could be egged on from his first statement and I think Keir took advantage of that. That being said, I'm not laying my vote down right now. We need all the discussion time we can get so let's not be too quick to hit that majority. Hold it against me though, if I come back and vote Adam without any reasoning. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 27 2013 04:41 thrawn2112 wrote: snarfs how do you feel about double lynching? I don't want to kill Adam right now so I'm opposed. In general though, I could see the benefits of knowing two people's alignments. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
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