• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:46
CEST 14:46
KST 21:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall8HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL42Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
RELIABLE USDT RECOVERY SERVICE//TECHY FORCE CYBER The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports?
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Help: rep cant save
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 635 users

[G] Roach-Ling Revisited: Zerg vs Terran (HotS)

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-01 01:25:12
February 03 2013 21:56 GMT
#1
Roach-Ling Revisited: Zerg vs Terran (HotS)

[image loading]

Drawn-Out and Overblown Introduction to HotS Guides:

+ Show Spoiler +
I will be releasing at least 6 new Zerg guides to serve as a starting point/reference for Zerg players making the transition to Heart of the Swarm.

I considered releasing one giant guide to avoid clutter of the TL forum, but as it grew larger it made more sense to structure the guides individually. To put it in a way we can all understand, the formatting of such a large guide was starting to look like a Marauder, and it's better to fight a Marauder with a few sets of Zerglings rather than one lone Roach. In fact, it will be helpful to continue thinking of these guides like Zerglings: they're compact, vicious, and if you learn how to use them, you will &^$%ing maul people.

You might ask why you should read a guide from me, what could I possibly offer that a professional like Day9 or Apollo can't? And I would say nothing except a different way of looking at things. We've all experienced SC2 differently - we've watched, played, read, studied, dare I say LIVED StarCraft through completely different eyes. I happen to have Swarm eyes:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
"See Scarlett has them too, might be a Canadian thing eh"

The side-effects of Swarm eyes are well-documented, as all you brothers and sisters of the Swarm know. These include adrenal rushes (something to do with our glands), rapid-motion-syndrome (something to do with our hands), and an aggressive mentality (stepping where our opponent stands).

Now don't get me wrong - I respect my opponent, I think he or she is probably a great person, but I want all of their units on a stretcher - or more accurately still, I want their units to be eaten alive by my units, boosting their metabolism and making them stronger and faster, with hearts beating like hammers and claws dripping with of the blood of the fallen. I want my units to tear off the heads of SCVs and mount them on spikes, and mount the heads of Probes above the fireplace. When they're not injecting, I want Queens to throw darts at pictures of Marines and aim right for the groin. I want every inch of the map covered in creep, and I want to neural parasite an opponent's worker and build a Nexus or Command center just so I can produce workers and kill them until the map is mined out of resources.

I have not played the HotS campaign yet, but I hope it ends with the annihilation of the Protoss and Terran races, and I hope creep connects all the planets in a way that spells "All your bases are belonging to the Swarm" when looked at from space or a neighboring galaxy. . . . .

If this little exaggeration of my SC2 mindset hasn't persuaded you to read these guides, perhaps my experience in the community will. I have written and produced over 200 works of strategy content between tutorial videos and TeamLiquid guides. Some have been great contributions, some have been pretty meager and uninformative, but I've learned a lot from both the positive and negative feedback, and I've put in my time so to speak. I'm not a professional gamer, but as they say, "those that can't do... teach" and that's really what I aim to do.

My number one goal in producing these guides is to help readers improve, increasing the collective learning curve. The aggressive-themed strategies and builds that I've chosen are simply the cover of a much more deep and interesting book on Zerg mechanics and execution; many of the key points that are emphasized and repeated throughout the guides are universal skills that apply to other styles as well. Specific styles will evolve and change throughout the expansion as new units become more familiar, but the core fundamentals won't be as affected.

In short, while this introduction is rather long and exaggerated, the content of the guides will be concise and to-the-point. You can be sure that emphasized points are based on years of study, extensive coaching experience, genuine interest in your improvement, and appreciation for the time you've taken to read.

PS. Everyone should view this fantastic Youtube Video on ESports


Concept:

+ Show Spoiler +
Early Roach aggression in ZvT is a frequently used tactic that will become even stronger in HotS, and the reasons aren't surprising:
    1) Roaches have always been good against Hellions, and Terran players still open with Hellions/Hellbats often.

    2) Reaper openings have made a reappearance in HotS, and Roaches hold this type of aggression well.

    3) The opportunity to counter-attack presents you with unique advantages, ie. map control that frees you to drone/tech/expand.

    4) You can now research burrow from your Hatchery, which is a huge boost that we'll address later.

    5) Once you get over 6 Roaches, focus-firing of buildings and SCVs become much easier.


Build:

+ Show Spoiler +
Note that unmarked gains in Supply are Drones.

9Overlord

[image loading]

Consensus shows 9OL is generally preferred to other options. Get in the habit of rallying every Overlord that you produce immediately (fundamental mechanic), and consider even hotkeying your first two Overlords to practice moving between control groups that you might not usually use until later in the game (i.e. 2 and 3, or 6 and 7).
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

15Hatchery

[image loading]

As soon as your Hatchery is started, set the rally points and add it to your control group (ie. if your main Hatchery is control group 4, click the expansion Hatchery hold Shift and press 4). The concept of adding units/buildings to already-existing control groups is a fundamental mechanic - if you repeat it, it becomes second nature and saves time.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

16Gas

[image loading]

Be conscious of the Drones you choose to build structures. For example, pick a Drone that is close to the gas where you're constructing. If you're pulling a Drone off mining to do this, make sure you don't touch your double-mining close patches!
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

15Pool

[image loading]

Pull your Drone from a patch that's close to where you're building the Pool. Do it in advance (180~ minerals) so that you can produce it right when you reach 200 minerals. Sometimes rallying a constructing Drone to the location where you're planning to build a structure can time out correctly, but don't do it everytime to the point where structures get built late.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

14-17 Drones

[image loading]

Get in the habit of rallying these Drones to patches that are single-mining, and try to make sure they "stick" to double-mining the desired patches. Economy management is easier in HotS than in WoL, but that doesn't mean you can't squeeze out small advantages by ensuring all Drones mine right away instead of bouncing around.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

17Overlord

[image loading]

Rally this Overlord, like every other Overlord, right away, ideally you want to rally to locations that are safe from Marines and will let you see drops coming later in the game. For lower level players, it's even ok to safely rally them between your main and expansion, but it's important to develop the habit of rallying it somewhere.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

19Queenx2

[image loading]

You want to construct these Queens at the same time so you can inject at the same time. A tip to players who hotkey both Queens in the same control group: wait just a second or two before injecting when the Queens first spawn (Inject with 26-27 Energy). Otherwise you'll occasionally have that annoying thing happen where say your main Queen has 24 energy and your expansion Queen has 25, and your expansion Queen runs up to the main to inject and the rotation gets messed up.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

28 Roach Warren

[image loading]

By the time you're producing this Roach Warren, your main should be optimally saturated - 16 Drones, double-mining every patch. Once you reach 16 Drones in the main, rally both Hatcheries to your expansion, and choose the 17th Drone produced in the main to produce your Warren at 28 (that way you don't touch that optimal saturation in the main).
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

28 Speed or Burrow

[image loading]

Either upgrade will finish before your Roaches arrive at your Opponent's base. If you get Zergling Speed, you'll plan to build some Zerglings after 44 Supply to add to the strength of your Roach push (Speedlings are so fast that they'll catch up to the Roaches). If you plan on getting both upgrades, opt for Speed before Burrow.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

28 Overlordx2

[image loading]

Both Overlords rallied to give more aerial map vision. Remove Drones from geyser after you reach 300 gas total mined, unless you plan on getting both Burrow and Speed in which case you need 400. Burrow is usually always a good investment, because you can delay his expansion by burrowing where the Command Center would go, and you can also burrow your Drones back at home if he comes in with Banshees, Hellions, or other nasties.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

28-44 Roaches

[image loading]

Should have 600 Minerals/200Gas to make 8 Roaches. Hotkey all Roach Eggs immediately! Make sure you're de-selecting any excess Larva so that you're Hotkeying only the Roaches. When you build the Overlords on 44, you should rally them somewhere right away and make sure they're NOT part of the Roach control group.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

44 Overlordx2

[image loading]

Speedlings Rallied to Roaches. It's a good idea to keep your Speedlings on a separate control group from your Roaches, though most of the micro is done with the Roaches (this will be explained in the "Execution" section).
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

52~ Switch to Drones

[image loading]

Now you don't have to switch to Drones, you can produce Speedlings off 22~ Drones on 2 Hatcheries to apply additional pressure. Most times it is recommended that you start the transition at 52, as you can optimize the timing better if you keep the transition consistent.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Build InAShell:
Fast Expand --> Gas/Pool --> Drones/Queens --> 28 Supply Warren --> Upgrade (Speed/Burrow) 2x Overlord --> 28-44 Supply Build 8 Roaches to Defend or Pressure, 2xOverlords at 44 --> Ling or Drone Production + Transition

Quick Review:
15Hatchery, 16Gas, 15Pool, 17 Overlord, 19 Queenx2, 28 Roach Warren, 28 Upgrade (Burrow or Speed), 28-44 Roaches, 44Overlordx2, 44-52 Drones or Lings (Depending on whether you get Burrow or Speed).


Execution:

+ Show Spoiler +
The two most important mechanics addressed so far (which must never be undervalued) are Overlord-Rallying and Shift-Adding to Control Groups. These are paramount, and if you don't understand either, re-read the Build section or ask for clarification in the comments below. Here are some other valuable tips and notes on Execution:
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Multitasking Macro/Micro:

I think a common misconception is that macro is vastly more important than micro, but it's important to remember one of the primary functions of good macro: to give you more time to manage your actual army! The majority of the time if your army is engaging, you should pay more attention to your forces than your base. That's why it's so important to work on your keyboard macro-mechanics so that while you engage, you continue producing units and adding them to the control group.

The Roach/Ling ZvT opening is amazing for improving your control-grouping mechanics because it forces you to look away from your base while maintaining production, and you should take advantage of this efficient way to practice and improve. When you produce your first 8 Roaches, you de-select excess Larva and add to a control group (Group 2). If you decide to produce Speedlings to reinforce, these should be added to a separate control group (Group 1). This way you can go between 1 and 2 to micro your Speedlings and Roaches, and you're improving the management of multiple army control groups, a skill crucial for the later stages of the game with Infestors, Broodlords, etc.

Researching Burrow at Hatchery means you can now have Burrow for your 7:15 Roach timing! This is well before Turrets and Ravens, so your opponent will have to use scans to detect. Also, Roaches regenerate HP pretty quickly while Burrowed, so if you're burrowing your weakened Roaches you can keep them alive for much longer. Even at an impenetrable wall of Depot/Bunker/SCVs, combining Burrow micro with SCV Focus-Firing will net you a LOT of worker kills. Then, when you're on the defensive against Hellions, Hellbats, or Banshees, you can burrow your Drones and Queens! It is an incredible benefit both for attacking and defending.

The Roach/Burrow opening is also great for improving casting-mechanics. Always set your first 8 Roaches in the same control group that you will later use for casters like Infestors (for me, it's 2). SO many players struggle with Infestor control, because having a separate control group for them makes it difficult to manage, but training this Roach/Burrow tactic can help you become accustomed to using casting units in this way.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Set Shift-Rallies:

If you're on the offensive, quick reinforcements can decide whether you win a game, but a bit of a dilemma occurs because you want to spend as little time as possible organizing these reinforcements, and instead focus on your main army. It is amazingly helpful to shift-add every egg you produce to the respective control group, but it's impractical to think anyone is capable of doing this 100% of the time - it's easy to forget in the heat of battle, but nevertheless you need to get those reinforcements, so how do we fix this?

One common, but not ideal, method is rallying to your opponent's base, or just outside. But then you risk your units running in un-hotkeyed, and it's a huge problem when you retreat but forget to reset the rally. Another method is to rally onto a unit, like a Roach, which makes sense because then all reinforcements will run straight to that Roach. The problem here is if that Roach dies, you've lost the rally point, so reinforcements will just sit idle at each Hatchery unless you reset the rally point.

So I advise using the Shift-Rally method.
[image loading]

You set rally points to a ground location first, hold Shift and then right-click a Roach. The Shift-rally will follow the Roach, but if that Roach does, the Hatcheries are still rallied to the first location.

[image loading]

This makes things a lot easier because units won't "suicide" into your opponent's base because of a bad rally-point, and you won't have rally-points reset to idle at the Hatcheries either.

[image loading]
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Macro Catch-up Mode:

There is no one out there with perfect macro and multitasking, and there's no shame in missing injects or floating resources when you're being active with your units. But one way we can offset imperfection multitasking is to have a planned "Catchup-Up mode." By Catch-Up. I mean that when you fall behind in macro, you should have quick and clear steps laid out to get back on track fast. We may all have different opinions on what to prioritize, but make yourself a mental checklist like this:

1) Spend Larva
- The #1 reason that Zerg players float resources is because they sit for too long with more than three Larva. If you can't spend Larva during an engagement, make sure it's the first thing you do afterwards. Tip: When using Larva, avoid rapidly pressing the unit-key (Z, D, R, V etc), and instead hold down that key. If you're in even more of a rush to spend lots of Larva, you can hold down the key AND left-click with your mouse.

2) Over-Produce Overlords
- This goes hand-in-hand with Larva, but it's an important point. If you get blocked or minerals are really piling up, it's usually safe - even smart - to dump more-than-usual minerals into Overlords. Imagine a scenario: You're done building Drones on a well-saturated three-base economy, so you're producing LOTS of Roaches and Zerglings, but you get supply blocked with 4 Larva at the main, the natural, and the third that you can't spend on units. This is a great time to build some extra Overlords, not only because you'll need extra supply soon anyway, but also because you can spend some of that Larva. Tip: Instead of selecting all 4 Hatcheries and pressing the "v" key 6 times, select each Hatchery and build 2 Overlords at each - ensuring each Hatchery is below 3 Larva and still producing more.

3) Hit Injects
- I know you're sarcastically thinking "gee thanks for the tip, I had no idea I was supposed to inject", but when things slip, getting your inject-cycle back on track is supremely important. Extra energy can be used to spread creep or inject at your macro Hatcheries. Tip: Swap Queens with excess energy to the bases with macro Hatcheries. There's no point sitting with a 25 Energy Queen in the main and a 75 Energy Queen at the third - swap them so you can spend that excess energy double-injecting the main + macro hatch.

4) Macro-Hatcheries
- If you've done the above steps and you're still sitting with 1-2k minerals, start building Macro-Hatcheries. If at any point it starts to look like you won't need the extra production, you can cancel them, losing only 75 Minerals - there have been very few (if any) games in which the reason I've lost is because I built too many macro Hatcheries.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

General Notes on Style/Scouting/Variations:

You need a total of 300 gas (100 for upgrade, 200 for Roaches) to execute this attack. No matter what weird shenanigans happen early game (Expansion blocked by SCV-Building, Early 2-Rax pressure, etc.), you should try to aim for 300 gas mined and 22~ Drones with 2 Queens. IE. If you lose Drones or Queens early on, rebuild them. Don't cut your gas at 250 and go for a 6-Roach push off a 16-Drone economy! Just rebuild those Drones, get that 300 total gas, and hit a later timing with the same units - your opponent will be delayed too. There are many ways to alter this opening to suit your particular style:

To play an extra safe opening style: Send a Drone scout between 10 and 14 Supply before you start your expansion, cut Drones before the Pool finishes (16-17) and produce 4-6 Zerglings (or even more if pressed) as soon as the Pool is done. A Spinecrawler is also optional when the expansion finishes. If you are under significant early Marine pressure, you should remove Drones from gas. Tip: To players who struggle against 2-Rax, remember that keeping Drones alive is vastly more important than mining time. Pull more/all your workers to defend, at least until you can get a Spinecrawler or two places in range of his Bunkers.

To play a moderately safe style, send a Drone scout at least to the proxy-locations and then your closer Xel-Naga. When the Pool finishes, just build 1 Set of Lings to kill any single Marine/SCV on the map, as well as hold each Xel. The benefit of holding the Xel-Nagas as your Roaches come out is that he may not see your units until later.

To play a greedy style: The only scary timings that hit before Roaches come out involve 2-Barracks. If your first Overlord scouts an Expansion or a Gas Refinery, you shouldn't build any Zerglings. Defending with just Queens, you can survive 1-Rax pressure without producing any Zerglings most times, which lets you hit at the earliest time with your Roaches. After your Warren (28) is the time you should build a set of Lings to take the Xel-Nagas. (My preference). Example: See game against "AlwaysLose" in the "Proof" section of this guide.

To play this style more passively, you can delay your gas (15Hatch, 16Pool, 18Gas) and delay your warren (32~). Produce 4-6 Roaches instead and aim for a faster third. If you have some Speedlings, you can poke with your 4-6 Roaches - if you don't research speed and neglect Zerglings, you'll want to keep your Roaches back. This style lends itself better to producing a 3rd/4th Queen much earlier, as you'll want to connect your 3rd. Example: See game against "Barcode Terran" in the "Proof" section of this guide.


Proof:

+ Show Spoiler +
Tutorial

Roach-Ling Revisited Tutorial 1
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Replays

TangSC vs Barcode Terran - Defensive / Passive Roach-Ling vs Early Drops

TangSC vs AlwaysLose - Roach-Ling vs Heavy Reaper Opening
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Stream Highlights

Stream Game vs AlwaysLose


Support:

+ Show Spoiler +
Website: TangStarcraft [ http://www.TangStarcraft.com ]
- I post all videos, guides, and articles on my website - signing up and posting a comment/question is basically like giving me a high-five, and I sincerely appreciate it.

Reddit: TangSC [ Reddit Link: Roach-Ling Revisited (ZvT) ]
- A supportive comment + upvote = a very happy Tang. Some members of the Reddit community can be quite critical and down-vote before reading, and I can't tell you how much I value your support on this forum.

Twitter: TangSC2 [ http://www.twitter.com/TangSC2 ]
- Twitter will notify you when I stream. I always read tweets and appreciate re-tweets!

Twitch: TangSC [ http://www.twitch.tv/TangSC ]
- Please tune in, follow, ask questions, and help spread the word! You may even win some "Tang Points!"

TangSC Coaching Testimonial Page: [ http://tangstarcraft.com/?page_id=5 ]
- If you've had a coaching from me, please contribute to my reviews/testimonials!


Feedback:

+ Show Spoiler +
You're welcome to participate in these feedback Polls, as your advice/recommendations/criticisms can help me to produce better content.

Poll: What did you like most about this guide?

Content/Focus Points (24)
 
41%

Writing Style/Organization (20)
 
34%

Structure/Layout (9)
 
16%

Audio/Visual Resources (3)
 
5%

This is a poor guide with many issues (Please explain in comments) (2)
 
3%

58 total votes

Your vote: What did you like most about this guide?

(Vote): Structure/Layout
(Vote): Content/Focus Points
(Vote): Audio/Visual Resources
(Vote): Writing Style/Organization
(Vote): This is a poor guide with many issues (Please explain in comments)


______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Poll: What did you dislike most about this guide?

I cannot find criticism of the guide. (32)
 
86%

Structure/Layout (2)
 
5%

Content/Focus Points (2)
 
5%

Writing Style/Organization (1)
 
3%

Audio/Visual Resources (0)
 
0%

37 total votes

Your vote: What did you dislike most about this guide?

(Vote): Structure/Layout
(Vote): Content/Focus Points
(Vote): Audio/Visual Resources
(Vote): Writing Style/Organization
(Vote): I cannot find criticism of the guide.

Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
JOJOsc2news
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
3000 Posts
February 03 2013 22:00 GMT
#2
Great post. Answering the poll is a bit tricky because I want to choose two or even more options. I guess I will go with organization overall.
✉ Tweets @sc2channel ⌦ Blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/JOJO ⌫ "Arbiterssss... build more arbiterssss." Click 'Profile' for awesome shiro art!
Kenny_oro
Profile Joined September 2011
Germany368 Posts
February 03 2013 22:06 GMT
#3
The Shift-Rally just blew my mind O_o Thanks! (btw. im Terran)
HerO | TaeJa | Sea | Polt | CranK Fighting!
rezzan
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden329 Posts
February 03 2013 22:08 GMT
#4
tang is a really nice guy and he have helped me ALOT, his work is quality and the way he explain things just make sc2 look so easy.. as far as i am concerned he is one of those people who doesnt get the attention they deserve. love to clark<3
Sponsored by Play3r.net and eurodomination.net www.twitch.tv/tacowtf
WNxTbatz
Profile Joined February 2013
Canada7 Posts
February 03 2013 22:10 GMT
#5
Awesome in depth guide man, definitely one of the best coaches out there!
Velinath
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States694 Posts
February 03 2013 22:20 GMT
#6
Trying this build this afternoon. I left feedback in the blog post - long story short, I'm impressed with the guide quality.
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
February 03 2013 22:21 GMT
#7
I've been doing this myself (Without burrow) to great success.

Nice to see a guide written up for it. It's very effective. I've been pushing with ~10 roaches, and if I almost kill him, I'll just move out with ~30 speed roaches to finish him off. If not, I transition into roach/hydra.
Cereal
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-03 22:30:25
February 03 2013 22:21 GMT
#8
Another good thread without banner? Thats not good

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Unsane
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada170 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-03 22:26:41
February 03 2013 22:23 GMT
#9
What happens when your opponent goes mech and has atleast one tank (inaccessible) and 6-8 hellions when you show up? or if counter attacks with those hellions. Also, is there anything specific for you to scout? And if so is there any particular reaction you suggest?

EDIT:
On February 04 2013 07:21 Existor wrote:
Another good thread without banner? Thats not good

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


did you just make this?! (its a burrowed ling and roach, its perfect)
"What is the plural of y'all? All y'all." -Day9
Natalya
Profile Joined December 2011
Belgium287 Posts
February 03 2013 22:23 GMT
#10
This is simply a roach ling push that could be done in wol as well... Nothing Hots specific, nothing on the late game things. The guide would be better if you added those things.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 03 2013 22:25 GMT
#11
On February 04 2013 07:23 Natalya wrote:
This is simply a roach ling push that could be done in wol as well... Nothing Hots specific, nothing on the late game things. The guide would be better if you added those things.

I plan on releasing more guides to discuss those mid/late game transitions for ZvT (and the other races). There is some HotS specific content in the tutorial video (which discusses reapers/hellbat drops/widow mines), as well as the hatchery-burrow suggestion.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
invisible.terran
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States280 Posts
February 03 2013 22:28 GMT
#12
Really great guide. For the rallying however, I came up with this method (not sure if somebody already mentioned it). Basically instead of shift rallying like you, I hold shift and rally them on a bunch of roaches. That way, it's pretty hard to have reinforcement idle at your base while still having every unit possible on the field.
"Until the very very top, in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in, the only problem is most people cant work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they dont have a real passion for." - Idra
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
February 03 2013 22:30 GMT
#13

did you just make this?! (its a burrowed ling and roach, its perfect)

Based on this screenshot
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/media/screenshots/?keywords=&view#/swarm-screenshot28
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 03 2013 22:32 GMT
#14
On February 04 2013 07:23 Unsane wrote:
What happens when your opponent goes mech and has atleast one tank (inaccessible) and 6-8 hellions when you show up? or if counter attacks with those hellions. Also, is there anything specific for you to scout? And if so is there any particular reaction you suggest?

Counter-attacks can be cleaned up with Speedlings/Queens, and any build in which your opponent holds his main (like a tank-mech opening) will mean you gain complete map control and freedom to take a third and Drone harder-than-usual. It's an equalizing situation, so the sooner you transition into macro the better. If I thought there was a good chance my opponent wasn't going for an expansion before 7:15, I'd probably cut lings early (50~ supply) and Drone to 60, then get the third / 2 gas / double upgrades / lair / etc. Just make sure you hold those Xel-Naga and stay well ahead of supply so that you're safe to Drone hard.

In terms of dealing with mid-game mech, well, you have that Roach warren my advice is play it similar to ZvP Roach max, 4 hatcheries, 60+ Drones, lots of aggression. You can take your 4th while you pressure with your 1/1 Speed timing, and aim for 7-8 Hatcheries off a 4-base economy with crazy Roach/Ling production. Some approach this situation with faster tech Broodlords, but I have a lot of fun with Roaches against mech.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Unsane
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada170 Posts
February 03 2013 22:44 GMT
#15
Good answer. How about fast hellbats? Im sure you've encountered that quite a few times. And subsequently how about hellbat drops?
"What is the plural of y'all? All y'all." -Day9
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 03 2013 22:50 GMT
#16
On February 04 2013 07:44 Unsane wrote:
Good answer. How about fast hellbats? Im sure you've encountered that quite a few times. And subsequently how about hellbat drops?

So far it's working really well against hellbats/drops, but one mistake I've been making is neglecting to realize how powerful a medivac full of hellbats is lol it's not like in WoL where they drop 4 hellions and you're fine with 2-3 Roaches.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
WindFox
Profile Joined April 2012
United States2 Posts
February 03 2013 23:09 GMT
#17
Reading this guide and watching the replays makes the build look so easy, and it is. Great build Tang. Thanks for the help with the guide!!!
Henk
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands578 Posts
February 04 2013 00:09 GMT
#18
Although the shift method probably works well, I don't see how it is easier than just hotkeying eggs right away. If you manage to forget hotkeying the eggs, you're probably going to forget shiftrallying them either.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
February 04 2013 00:48 GMT
#19
Another tip regarding adding to groups.

Add alternative hotkey for shift+1, shift+2, etc (akka Add to group) - Alt+1, Alt+2, etc.

With big finger it's a lot easier to add to groups. Also holding ALT shows all health-bars in damaged mode. And ALT+grid hotkey scheme gives you "second keyboard" - ALT+Q, ALT+W, ALT+E, etc, which can be a lot commands, including alternative hotkeys for commands which is hard to hit sometimes.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 04 2013 00:57 GMT
#20
On February 04 2013 09:09 Henk wrote:
Although the shift method probably works well, I don't see how it is easier than just hotkeying eggs right away. If you manage to forget hotkeying the eggs, you're probably going to forget shiftrallying them either.

Well you can shift-rally the Hatchery rally points, so all future units are shift-rallied onto that unit.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Playoffs Day 1
Clem vs ChamLIVE!
Crank 1613
Tasteless603
IndyStarCraft 179
Rex151
3DClanTV 73
IntoTheiNu 58
LiquipediaDiscussion
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 53
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 1613
Tasteless 603
Lowko328
Harstem 264
IndyStarCraft 179
Rex 151
ProTech62
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 46819
Rain 4189
Sea 3566
Horang2 3084
Jaedong 1248
EffOrt 796
BeSt 571
Larva 491
actioN 331
Stork 328
[ Show more ]
Mini 266
ToSsGirL 223
Last 211
Light 199
Snow 168
ZerO 161
Killer 130
Sharp 63
Pusan 54
hero 53
Mong 53
Mind 51
Rush 41
Shinee 40
Sea.KH 37
Nal_rA 28
ajuk12(nOOB) 25
sSak 24
Noble 23
JulyZerg 20
yabsab 17
Sacsri 13
soO 12
NaDa 12
Movie 12
sorry 11
IntoTheRainbow 8
SilentControl 7
Bale 3
GoRush 0
Terrorterran 0
Dota 2
qojqva1639
420jenkins478
XcaliburYe434
BananaSlamJamma432
Counter-Strike
x6flipin739
allub208
oskar162
byalli157
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King164
Other Games
B2W.Neo801
DeMusliM551
hiko504
crisheroes302
Pyrionflax131
ArmadaUGS44
QueenE15
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 953
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 39
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV537
League of Legends
• Nemesis4403
Upcoming Events
WardiTV European League
3h 14m
ByuN vs NightPhoenix
HeRoMaRinE vs HiGhDrA
Krystianer vs sebesdes
MaxPax vs Babymarine
SKillous vs Mixu
ShoWTimE vs MaNa
Replay Cast
11h 14m
RSL Revival
21h 14m
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
OSC
1d
WardiTV European League
1d 3h
Scarlett vs Percival
Jumy vs ArT
YoungYakov vs Shameless
uThermal vs Fjant
Nicoract vs goblin
Harstem vs Gerald
FEL
1d 3h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 14h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 21h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
FEL
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.