Introduction: So I made about 60-65 episodes of my Winning With Ease series which showed how to hold any cheese or timing attack. I received a lot of feedback but one thing that people kept saying is "I love the defense, but can you show me the cheese now?!" Generally I'm all for promoting strong macro play, but I think it's great to have a good variety of builds and so without further ado, I present to you Cheese with Ease. A series where I will dive into all the various cheeses you present to me (As well as ones I find myself) and demonstrate the keys to them working as well as ways to prevent them from going wrong (getting scouted, etc).
Where Do You Come In? You get to throw out suggestions for videos based on what you want to see. Whether it be something like 6 pool or immortal sentry all-in, I'm here to help. I will re-enact your scenario as best as I can so that I can show you all of the important decisions to make this cheese successful.
What should you include in your post: Name: Race: Match up: Your Desired Cheese: His Build: Specific Map?: Comments:
EXAMPLE: Name: JackBlack Race: Terran Match up: Tvt Your Build: 2 rax scv all in Specific Map?: None Replay: drop.sc/xxxxx Comments: None
(Beaten to the punch, but with proper formatting this time...)
Name: AS00 Race: Terran (but want to know about a Protoss build) Matchup: PvZ Build: Parting's immortal/sentry all-in Map: Any/none Replay:http://drop.sc/269023 (not mine) Comments: Discussed (but not really a proper guide) in this blog.
Name: Salient Race: Protoss Matchup: PvP Build: 3 Stalker Rush into 8 stalker blink all in at 6:50 Map: Any Replay: http://drop.sc/266231 (not mine) Notes: I guess you would need some way to check to make sure he isn't 4 gating or going DTs -- since those builds pretty much blind counter a blink all-in. I would like to see the build against someone going 2 gate robo ---> expand with immortal/sentries/stalker/zealot.
On October 31 2012 01:37 Salient wrote: Name: Salient Race: Protoss Matchup: PvP Build: 3 Stalker Rush into 8 stalker blink all in at 6:50 Map: Any Replay: http://drop.sc/266231 (not mine) Notes: I guess you would need some way to check to make sure he isn't 4 gating or going DTs -- since those builds pretty much blind counter a blink all-in. I would like to see the build against someone going 2 gate robo ---> expand with immortal/sentries/stalker/zealot.
If I can chip in a bit of advice if MrLlama doesn't mind, a 4 gate win/loss isn't really decided by this allin. It comes as you're posturing for it. If you get 4 gated, you have to react. Typically you get your TC before any 4 gate hits, so you'd not chrono blink and get sentries out of your gates while adding more. The 3 stalker rush helps a lot if you position well and stop proxy pylons. You want to stop the pylon from going up on the second ramp on a map with two (ie Ohana) as that puts you in a great position to defend.
As far as DT, it's tricky. He'll have very very few units and at most one sentry if his DTs are at all reasonably timed. You should break the ramp with absolutely no trouble. You absolutely have to mine enough minerals to build either a robo or forge by your proxy pylon, and get an observer/cannon out as quickly as you can. From there you try to kill all his buildings before he kills yours. These games often get really weird.
On October 31 2012 01:37 Salient wrote: Name: Salient Race: Protoss Matchup: PvP Build: 3 Stalker Rush into 8 stalker blink all in at 6:50 Map: Any Replay: http://drop.sc/266231 (not mine) Notes: I guess you would need some way to check to make sure he isn't 4 gating or going DTs -- since those builds pretty much blind counter a blink all-in. I would like to see the build against someone going 2 gate robo ---> expand with immortal/sentries/stalker/zealot.
This would be your reaction to a 4gate. If you are planning to go for a blink stalker all in and he goes for a 4gate, you simply have to change plans and defend because if you hold a 4gate then you win the game since it's an earlier all in on his part.
As for DTs, you shouldn't have too much of an issue in my opinion because a lot of the blink stalker all ins that I cast have the protoss getting a robo and observer so they can blink into the base, so it's very strong yet safe and allows for transition into your faster robo tech if you cannot do enough damage.
That being said, if you don't want to build a robo you'll have to proxy a pylon and get a robo down quickly and then it's a really quirky game like the other guy said where bases are lost and everything. Much easier to just add the robo in when you get to his base and see his unit composition that might suggest DTs.
On October 31 2012 00:38 ASoo wrote: (Beaten to the punch, but with proper formatting this time...)
Name: AS00 Race: Terran (but want to know about a Protoss build) Matchup: PvZ Build: Parting's immortal/sentry all-in Map: Any/none Replay:http://drop.sc/269023 (not mine) Comments: Discussed (but not really a proper guide) in this blog.
On October 31 2012 00:21 _NIx_ wrote: Awesome, I love aggressive play ! :D I haven't seen a proper guide for immortal/sentry allins yet, so that would be my suggestion.
Name: Reick Race: Protoss Matchup: PvT Build: 2 Base Colossus All-in Map: Any Replay: http://drop.sc/166639 Notes: I've seen this all-in many times but don't know how to execute it properly. Also, do you know why Bomber does not attack at the 10 min mark like most terrans in ladder do? If I'm doing this build and I see the timing coming, do I have to stop the all-in?
Damn, MrLlama, your previous series was awesome and now making an aggressive one is even more awesome! :D I wish u post alot of games where u show ways that Zerg can put pressure on without being allin
But for now:
Name: SweKenZo Race: Zerg Match up: ZvT Your Build: Roach Bane Ling Allin vs T CC First Replay: dont have any Comments:I think it was stephano who popularized it?!
Name: Chr15t Race: Terran Match up: TvT Your Build: Thor drop. Replay: None(Im at work) - will one if needed later. Specific map: Antiga or Ohana Comments:
"Its a 12 rax 13 gas opening im looking for. If you do the build, feel free to use scvs aswell / marine support . and im also interested in seeing the potential followups."
On November 05 2012 07:57 Saeldran wrote: Name: Reick Race: Protoss Matchup: PvT Build: 2 Base Colossus All-in Map: Any Replay: http://drop.sc/166639 Notes: I've seen this all-in many times but don't know how to execute it properly. Also, do you know why Bomber does not attack at the 10 min mark like most terrans in ladder do? If I'm doing this build and I see the timing coming, do I have to stop the all-in?
Saeldran: This build laughs at the 10-minute timing, murders it, and spits on it's grave. Even Squirtle, the pioneer of the build, has said you have to turtle up and stay in your base if you want to survive. If he insists on attacking with the Stim-Medivac timing anyway, you'll crush him. You can find a replay of the build in IPL 4. It's an old tournament, but the build is still the same. Squirtle vs. MMA game 1 is a perfect example of the timings. I believe it's in the championship bracket, winner/loser round 3. It's near the end.
If you want a brief overview: 1 Gate FE into 2 more gates, 2 gas, Robo. (Standard PvT play so far.) The second the Robo finishes, throw down a Robo Bay and get 2 gas while it's building or as it finishes, I forget. Try both, see which one lines up better. Stop probes at 48, build 3 Colossi, CBing them constantly, then attack. Get Thermal Lance + Colossus 1 the second the Robo Bay finishes. Get 3 more gates when you can, and go Stalker heavy. You should have 3 Colossi and around 25 gateway units when you push out, with 4 Sentries, some zealots, and as many stalkers as you can afford without cutting Colossi. I forget the time you're supposed to push out at though. Attack as soon as your third Colossus comes out. Also, hide the Colossi in the back of your nat unless he pressures you.
The build is fairly all-in because, despite the 2-base saturation and the ability to take a third without too much difficulty, you have no armor or weapons upgrades. It's possible to go for one forge and go for a slightly delayed attack with +1 Weapons, and transition into 3-base play with it.
I know all this because I used that exact build for a while.
If you want a more "reliable" build for your 3 hatch ling bling ZvP, I would recommend a different starting BO:
10 OL extractor trick 12 pool Drone to 16/18 Queen, double trick for 4x lings OL (20/18) expand
You'll get the queen and lings much faster than your build, and so if you're pylon blocked you'll get your nat hatch down quicker too. As your guide says to get gas around 20, instead of cancelling both those extractors (so you're at 20/18) you could probably just cancel one and then mine from it.
Getting your hatch and queen out a bit earlier should mean that your attack will have the same offensive power, but you might be able to sneak some extra drones in first. Food for thought!
But on the other hand, the best part of the 3-hatch ling/bling build is that it looks exactly like a regular 3-hatch macro build unless you see the gas in the main: That 12-pool and late hatch tips them off that you're up to something.
But he's not doing a "regular 3-hatch macro build"; he's not expanding until he's built the queen and lings first. His expo is already somewhat later. The merits of one build style over the other isn't something I really want to get into, as that debate could sidetrack the thread
I was just saying that - if you ARE going for a build where you expand after the queen + lings - the 12 pool build above will simply be better, as it means your queen, lings and expo will all be faster.
On November 06 2012 00:00 Hairy wrote: But he's not doing a "regular 3-hatch macro build"; he's not expanding until he's built the queen and lings first. His expo is already somewhat later. The merits of one build style over the other isn't something I really want to get into, as that debate could sidetrack the thread
I was just saying that - if you ARE going for a build where you expand after the queen + lings - the 12 pool build above will simply be better, as it means your queen, lings and expo will all be faster.
but I'm assuming this would be at the cost of slightly less economy, which is not something I want to give up at this point because I don't even really use my natural except for the larva later on. The benefit would be getting the lings out in time to scare the probe off faster though for gas I suppose, but I don't want to really 12 pool because a lot of protoss will come in, see that, and sometimes be a little more defensive. I want him to be very chill and not worried at all.
On a different note, thanks for the suggestions guys. I have a 100+pg report due today so I've been busy working on that for the past couple days. I'll get another video up soon though
On November 05 2012 15:57 SweKenZo wrote: Damn, MrLlama, your previous series was awesome and now making an aggressive one is even more awesome! :D I wish u post alot of games where u show ways that Zerg can put pressure on without being allin
But for now:
Name: SweKenZo Race: Zerg Match up: ZvT Your Build: Roach Bane Ling Allin vs T CC First Replay: dont have any Comments:I think it was stephano who popularized it?!
Thanks for this so far MrLlama, I've been searching for a solid ZvZ build for some time, and this certainly seems good - I've tried it once and am 1-0, and that's the first ever try, so great! :D
I've also been feeling ZvP is really lacking in any excitement recently thanks to 3 base roach ling stuffs, but 3 base ling bling looks like lots of fun. I'm guessing this might well work vs a gateway expand rather than a forge expand, but that's yet to be experimented with :-)
On November 08 2012 00:56 Dawsmonkee wrote: Thanks for this so far MrLlama, I've been searching for a solid ZvZ build for some time, and this certainly seems good - I've tried it once and am 1-0, and that's the first ever try, so great! :D
I've also been feeling ZvP is really lacking in any excitement recently thanks to 3 base roach ling stuffs, but 3 base ling bling looks like lots of fun. I'm guessing this might well work vs a gateway expand rather than a forge expand, but that's yet to be experimented with :-)
It's definitely meant to work against a forge fast expand, but I've never tested it against a gate expand. The problem is if they open gateway and don't go for an expansion, they could see you coming and just FF the ramp while they tech to voids or DTs or something and go kill you, so it's a bit riskier. When the protoss goes for FFE they are a lot more vulnerable because you KNOW they have invested in that expansion. Could still work vs gate expand though, I'd have to test it out
I really hate to try switch races on my smurf account. Seeing I am on irregularily practicepartners aren't really around, and ladder is one big cheesefest... >.>
EPT
