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[G] Cheese With Ease: Video Series

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-23 08:00:45
October 30 2012 01:36 GMT
#1
Introduction: So I made about 60-65 episodes of my Winning With Ease series which showed how to hold any cheese or timing attack. I received a lot of feedback but one thing that people kept saying is "I love the defense, but can you show me the cheese now?!" Generally I'm all for promoting strong macro play, but I think it's great to have a good variety of builds and so without further ado, I present to you Cheese with Ease. A series where I will dive into all the various cheeses you present to me (As well as ones I find myself) and demonstrate the keys to them working as well as ways to prevent them from going wrong (getting scouted, etc).

Old Series: Winning With Ease


About me:
Name: MrLlamaSC
League: Masters
Race: Zerg main but I play all 3
Youtube: www.youtube.com/mrllamasc
Stream: www.twitch.tv/mrllamasc
Twitter: www.twitter.com/mrllamasc

Where Do You Come In?
You get to throw out suggestions for videos based on what you want to see. Whether it be something like 6 pool or immortal sentry all-in, I'm here to help. I will re-enact your scenario as best as I can so that I can show you all of the important decisions to make this cheese successful.

What should you include in your post:
Name:
Race:
Match up:
Your Desired Cheese:
His Build:
Specific Map?:
Comments:

EXAMPLE:
Name: JackBlack
Race: Terran
Match up: Tvt
Your Build: 2 rax scv all in
Specific Map?: None
Replay: drop.sc/xxxxx
Comments: None


Episodes:


Episode 1: 2 Base Roach Queen Nydus (ZvZ)
Episode 2: 3 Hatch Ling/Bling (ZvP)
Episode 3: Immortal Sentry All In (PvZ)
Episode 4: Ling All In vs Gate Expand (ZVP)
Episode 5: Proxy Hatch with Spines (ZvP)
Episode 6: Mass Ling vs Greedy Terrans (ZvT)
Episode 7: HOTS EDITION! Swarm Host Rush! (ZvP)
Episode 8: 7 Roach Rush (ZvT)

Discussion and questions are always welcome

-MrLlamaSC
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
_NIx_
Profile Joined June 2011
United States49 Posts
October 30 2012 15:21 GMT
#2
Awesome, I love aggressive play ! :D I haven't seen a proper guide for immortal/sentry allins yet, so that would be my suggestion.
ASoo
Profile Joined November 2010
2864 Posts
October 30 2012 15:38 GMT
#3
(Beaten to the punch, but with proper formatting this time...)

Name: AS00
Race: Terran (but want to know about a Protoss build)
Matchup: PvZ
Build: Parting's immortal/sentry all-in
Map: Any/none
Replay: http://drop.sc/269023 (not mine)
Comments: Discussed (but not really a proper guide) in this blog.
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-30 16:40:17
October 30 2012 16:37 GMT
#4
Name: Salient
Race: Protoss
Matchup: PvP
Build: 3 Stalker Rush into 8 stalker blink all in at 6:50
Map: Any
Replay: http://drop.sc/266231 (not mine)
Notes: I guess you would need some way to check to make sure he isn't 4 gating or going DTs -- since those builds pretty much blind counter a blink all-in. I would like to see the build against someone going 2 gate robo ---> expand with immortal/sentries/stalker/zealot.
Indrium
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2236 Posts
October 30 2012 18:01 GMT
#5
On October 31 2012 01:37 Salient wrote:
Name: Salient
Race: Protoss
Matchup: PvP
Build: 3 Stalker Rush into 8 stalker blink all in at 6:50
Map: Any
Replay: http://drop.sc/266231 (not mine)
Notes: I guess you would need some way to check to make sure he isn't 4 gating or going DTs -- since those builds pretty much blind counter a blink all-in. I would like to see the build against someone going 2 gate robo ---> expand with immortal/sentries/stalker/zealot.


If I can chip in a bit of advice if MrLlama doesn't mind, a 4 gate win/loss isn't really decided by this allin. It comes as you're posturing for it. If you get 4 gated, you have to react. Typically you get your TC before any 4 gate hits, so you'd not chrono blink and get sentries out of your gates while adding more. The 3 stalker rush helps a lot if you position well and stop proxy pylons. You want to stop the pylon from going up on the second ramp on a map with two (ie Ohana) as that puts you in a great position to defend.

As far as DT, it's tricky. He'll have very very few units and at most one sentry if his DTs are at all reasonably timed. You should break the ramp with absolutely no trouble. You absolutely have to mine enough minerals to build either a robo or forge by your proxy pylon, and get an observer/cannon out as quickly as you can. From there you try to kill all his buildings before he kills yours. These games often get really weird.
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
October 30 2012 19:00 GMT
#6
On October 31 2012 01:37 Salient wrote:
Name: Salient
Race: Protoss
Matchup: PvP
Build: 3 Stalker Rush into 8 stalker blink all in at 6:50
Map: Any
Replay: http://drop.sc/266231 (not mine)
Notes: I guess you would need some way to check to make sure he isn't 4 gating or going DTs -- since those builds pretty much blind counter a blink all-in. I would like to see the build against someone going 2 gate robo ---> expand with immortal/sentries/stalker/zealot.




This would be your reaction to a 4gate. If you are planning to go for a blink stalker all in and he goes for a 4gate, you simply have to change plans and defend because if you hold a 4gate then you win the game since it's an earlier all in on his part.

As for DTs, you shouldn't have too much of an issue in my opinion because a lot of the blink stalker all ins that I cast have the protoss getting a robo and observer so they can blink into the base, so it's very strong yet safe and allows for transition into your faster robo tech if you cannot do enough damage.

That being said, if you don't want to build a robo you'll have to proxy a pylon and get a robo down quickly and then it's a really quirky game like the other guy said where bases are lost and everything. Much easier to just add the robo in when you get to his base and see his unit composition that might suggest DTs.

I'll make a video for this though
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-02 03:50:53
November 02 2012 03:50 GMT
#7
On October 31 2012 00:38 ASoo wrote:
(Beaten to the punch, but with proper formatting this time...)

Name: AS00
Race: Terran (but want to know about a Protoss build)
Matchup: PvZ
Build: Parting's immortal/sentry all-in
Map: Any/none
Replay: http://drop.sc/269023 (not mine)
Comments: Discussed (but not really a proper guide) in this blog.



On October 31 2012 00:21 _NIx_ wrote:
Awesome, I love aggressive play ! :D I haven't seen a proper guide for immortal/sentry allins yet, so that would be my suggestion.


Ask and you shall receive!

Hopefully this video is informative enough

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Saeldran
Profile Joined June 2012
Spain11 Posts
November 04 2012 22:57 GMT
#8
Name: Reick
Race: Protoss
Matchup: PvT
Build: 2 Base Colossus All-in
Map: Any
Replay: http://drop.sc/166639
Notes: I've seen this all-in many times but don't know how to execute it properly. Also, do you know why Bomber does not attack at the 10 min mark like most terrans in ladder do? If I'm doing this build and I see the timing coming, do I have to stop the all-in?
SweKenZo
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden82 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-06 07:05:58
November 05 2012 06:57 GMT
#9
Damn, MrLlama, your previous series was awesome and now making an aggressive one is even more awesome! :D I wish u post alot of games where u show ways that Zerg can put pressure on without being allin

But for now:

Name: SweKenZo
Race: Zerg
Match up: ZvT
Your Build: Roach Bane Ling Allin vs T CC First
Replay: dont have any
Comments:I think it was stephano who popularized it?!
Bronze->Silver->Gold->Platinum->Diamond-> ?
Chr15t
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark1103 Posts
November 05 2012 07:49 GMT
#10
Name: Chr15t
Race: Terran
Match up: TvT
Your Build: Thor drop.
Replay: None(Im at work) - will one if needed later.
Specific map: Antiga or Ohana
Comments:

"Its a 12 rax 13 gas opening im looking for. If you do the build, feel free to use scvs aswell / marine support . and im also interested in seeing the potential followups."
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
November 05 2012 12:51 GMT
#11
On November 05 2012 07:57 Saeldran wrote:
Name: Reick
Race: Protoss
Matchup: PvT
Build: 2 Base Colossus All-in
Map: Any
Replay: http://drop.sc/166639
Notes: I've seen this all-in many times but don't know how to execute it properly. Also, do you know why Bomber does not attack at the 10 min mark like most terrans in ladder do? If I'm doing this build and I see the timing coming, do I have to stop the all-in?


Saeldran: This build laughs at the 10-minute timing, murders it, and spits on it's grave. Even Squirtle, the pioneer of the build, has said you have to turtle up and stay in your base if you want to survive. If he insists on attacking with the Stim-Medivac timing anyway, you'll crush him. You can find a replay of the build in IPL 4. It's an old tournament, but the build is still the same. Squirtle vs. MMA game 1 is a perfect example of the timings. I believe it's in the championship bracket, winner/loser round 3. It's near the end.

If you want a brief overview: 1 Gate FE into 2 more gates, 2 gas, Robo. (Standard PvT play so far.) The second the Robo finishes, throw down a Robo Bay and get 2 gas while it's building or as it finishes, I forget. Try both, see which one lines up better. Stop probes at 48, build 3 Colossi, CBing them constantly, then attack. Get Thermal Lance + Colossus 1 the second the Robo Bay finishes. Get 3 more gates when you can, and go Stalker heavy. You should have 3 Colossi and around 25 gateway units when you push out, with 4 Sentries, some zealots, and as many stalkers as you can afford without cutting Colossi. I forget the time you're supposed to push out at though. Attack as soon as your third Colossus comes out. Also, hide the Colossi in the back of your nat unless he pressures you.

The build is fairly all-in because, despite the 2-base saturation and the ability to take a third without too much difficulty, you have no armor or weapons upgrades. It's possible to go for one forge and go for a slightly delayed attack with +1 Weapons, and transition into 3-base play with it.

I know all this because I used that exact build for a while.
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
November 05 2012 14:31 GMT
#12
If you want a more "reliable" build for your 3 hatch ling bling ZvP, I would recommend a different starting BO:

10 OL
extractor trick
12 pool
Drone to 16/18
Queen, double trick for 4x lings
OL (20/18)
expand


You'll get the queen and lings much faster than your build, and so if you're pylon blocked you'll get your nat hatch down quicker too. As your guide says to get gas around 20, instead of cancelling both those extractors (so you're at 20/18) you could probably just cancel one and then mine from it.

Getting your hatch and queen out a bit earlier should mean that your attack will have the same offensive power, but you might be able to sneak some extra drones in first. Food for thought!
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
November 05 2012 14:49 GMT
#13
But on the other hand, the best part of the 3-hatch ling/bling build is that it looks exactly like a regular 3-hatch macro build unless you see the gas in the main: That 12-pool and late hatch tips them off that you're up to something.
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
November 05 2012 15:00 GMT
#14
But he's not doing a "regular 3-hatch macro build"; he's not expanding until he's built the queen and lings first. His expo is already somewhat later. The merits of one build style over the other isn't something I really want to get into, as that debate could sidetrack the thread

I was just saying that - if you ARE going for a build where you expand after the queen + lings - the 12 pool build above will simply be better, as it means your queen, lings and expo will all be faster.
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
November 06 2012 09:45 GMT
#15
On November 06 2012 00:00 Hairy wrote:
But he's not doing a "regular 3-hatch macro build"; he's not expanding until he's built the queen and lings first. His expo is already somewhat later. The merits of one build style over the other isn't something I really want to get into, as that debate could sidetrack the thread

I was just saying that - if you ARE going for a build where you expand after the queen + lings - the 12 pool build above will simply be better, as it means your queen, lings and expo will all be faster.


but I'm assuming this would be at the cost of slightly less economy, which is not something I want to give up at this point because I don't even really use my natural except for the larva later on. The benefit would be getting the lings out in time to scare the probe off faster though for gas I suppose, but I don't want to really 12 pool because a lot of protoss will come in, see that, and sometimes be a little more defensive. I want him to be very chill and not worried at all.


On a different note, thanks for the suggestions guys. I have a 100+pg report due today so I've been busy working on that for the past couple days. I'll get another video up soon though
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
November 06 2012 14:52 GMT
#16
On November 05 2012 15:57 SweKenZo wrote:
Damn, MrLlama, your previous series was awesome and now making an aggressive one is even more awesome! :D I wish u post alot of games where u show ways that Zerg can put pressure on without being allin

But for now:

Name: SweKenZo
Race: Zerg
Match up: ZvT
Your Build: Roach Bane Ling Allin vs T CC First
Replay: dont have any
Comments:I think it was stephano who popularized it?!

http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/Starcraft-II/1964/ZvT-Roach-Ling-Baneling-Pressure-Revisited/
Good guide there.
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
Dawsmonkee
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom31 Posts
November 07 2012 15:56 GMT
#17
Thanks for this so far MrLlama, I've been searching for a solid ZvZ build for some time, and this certainly seems good - I've tried it once and am 1-0, and that's the first ever try, so great! :D

I've also been feeling ZvP is really lacking in any excitement recently thanks to 3 base roach ling stuffs, but 3 base ling bling looks like lots of fun. I'm guessing this might well work vs a gateway expand rather than a forge expand, but that's yet to be experimented with :-)
Regret the things you do, not the things you don't
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
November 07 2012 16:28 GMT
#18
On November 08 2012 00:56 Dawsmonkee wrote:
Thanks for this so far MrLlama, I've been searching for a solid ZvZ build for some time, and this certainly seems good - I've tried it once and am 1-0, and that's the first ever try, so great! :D

I've also been feeling ZvP is really lacking in any excitement recently thanks to 3 base roach ling stuffs, but 3 base ling bling looks like lots of fun. I'm guessing this might well work vs a gateway expand rather than a forge expand, but that's yet to be experimented with :-)


It's definitely meant to work against a forge fast expand, but I've never tested it against a gate expand. The problem is if they open gateway and don't go for an expansion, they could see you coming and just FF the ramp while they tech to voids or DTs or something and go kill you, so it's a bit riskier. When the protoss goes for FFE they are a lot more vulnerable because you KNOW they have invested in that expansion. Could still work vs gate expand though, I'd have to test it out
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Aelonius
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands432 Posts
November 07 2012 18:57 GMT
#19
Sigh.

I really hate to try switch races on my smurf account. Seeing I am on irregularily practicepartners aren't really around, and ladder is one big cheesefest... >.>
''The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.''—Ronald Reagan
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
November 10 2012 20:53 GMT
#20
I know it's been a bit of time but I have another video up now!



Additionally I already filmed yet another episode so tomorrow I will post that.
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
SAlechko
Profile Joined October 2012
Israel15 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-10 21:58:47
November 10 2012 21:58 GMT
#21
Great videos!
Some terran videos would be awesome
Vies
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia57 Posts
November 11 2012 01:44 GMT
#22
First of all Mrlla
ma I was really impressed with your last series. What you are doing here is great stuff! defending all ins and executing all-ins is definetely a weakness of mine. So thank you!

Terran all-ins are lacking but I would l like to see:
TvT marine siege tank all in (banshee variant if possible) against 1 tax Fe.

I can't think of any all ins that are viable in the other match ups apart from 1/1/1 in tvp perhaps.
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
November 11 2012 02:07 GMT
#23
--- Nuked ---
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
November 11 2012 16:10 GMT
#24
On November 11 2012 11:07 Sated wrote:
If you did a video about this build then I think it'd make for a pretty good Protoss addition: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381055

There aren't many effective 1 Base plays vs. 1 Rax FE builds, but this is one of them!


I think there are a decent number of pvt all ins against a 1 rax FE. The blink stalker is definitely one of my favs though
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
November 12 2012 04:35 GMT
#25
I have added a new episode. Yet another zvp I know but I'll switch to other races cheeses soon!

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
StayPhrosty
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada406 Posts
November 12 2012 22:09 GMT
#26
On November 11 2012 06:58 SAlechko wrote:
Great videos!
Some terran videos would be awesome


<3 llama

loved your other videos, they keep getting better as you go

can't wait for terran vids.
To be is to do-Socrates To do is to be-Sartre Do Be Do Be Do-Sinatra
Squigly
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom629 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 00:34:24
November 13 2012 00:31 GMT
#27
Name: Squigly
Race: Terran
Match up: TvP
Your Build: 5 rax marine scv shove (after 1 rax FE)
Replay: http://drop.sc/274876
Comments: In my experience its virtually un-scoutable (mid master, better players may disagree). Bring from 4-10 scvs, I bring less if I kill an early zealot. Take 2 gas as I leave and tech hard while pushing as you almost always kill the nexus and then face a 1 base all in from the P.

Pros: Often a good build for a BOx. Very hard to scout. Massively imprves marine control (not shown to well in my replay tbh )

Cons: You get no experience with TvP lategame (I take this as a pro....), seems to be hard countered by Blink all in.
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
November 13 2012 20:40 GMT
#28
On November 13 2012 07:09 StayPhrosty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2012 06:58 SAlechko wrote:
Great videos!
Some terran videos would be awesome


<3 llama

loved your other videos, they keep getting better as you go

can't wait for terran vids.


they'll be coming soon!

On November 13 2012 09:31 Squigly wrote:
Name: Squigly
Race: Terran
Match up: TvP
Your Build: 5 rax marine scv shove (after 1 rax FE)
Replay: http://drop.sc/274876
Comments: In my experience its virtually un-scoutable (mid master, better players may disagree). Bring from 4-10 scvs, I bring less if I kill an early zealot. Take 2 gas as I leave and tech hard while pushing as you almost always kill the nexus and then face a 1 base all in from the P.

Pros: Often a good build for a BOx. Very hard to scout. Massively imprves marine control (not shown to well in my replay tbh )

Cons: You get no experience with TvP lategame (I take this as a pro....), seems to be hard countered by Blink all in.


Okay I'll check it out!
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Dawsmonkee
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom31 Posts
November 16 2012 10:26 GMT
#29
I would love to see some more ZvT cheeses. Currently on my list of things to do is a 2-base muta or a roach bling ling attack. I'm not sure if these really count as cheeses since they generally have good follow ups, but it would be good to know of any other strong 'cheeses' to use in ZvT if you have some to share :-)
Regret the things you do, not the things you don't
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
November 17 2012 23:07 GMT
#30
On November 16 2012 19:26 Dawsmonkee wrote:
I would love to see some more ZvT cheeses. Currently on my list of things to do is a 2-base muta or a roach bling ling attack. I'm not sure if these really count as cheeses since they generally have good follow ups, but it would be good to know of any other strong 'cheeses' to use in ZvT if you have some to share :-)


I've got a couple that I've found but I've found there are less zvt than zvp cheeses, simply because terran as a race is a bit more defensive as a whole and the wall off with marines behind is killer.
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
mothergoose729
Profile Joined December 2010
United States666 Posts
November 18 2012 06:36 GMT
#31
Name: mothergoose729
Race: Terran
Match up: TvP
Your Desired Cheese: 1/1/1
His Build: 1 gate FE
Specific Map?: Antiga shipyard or entombed valley
Comments: There seems to be a couple of variants to the build, one where you attack at 8 minutes with mostly marine tank, the more popular one with cloaked banshees, and I have even seen some that hit without seige mode or with ravens. I would like to know more about he variants, there viability, and their execution if at all possible.

Thanks for you hardwork.

KhaliWear
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Canada159 Posts
November 18 2012 07:48 GMT
#32
I am here becasue of the title.
Stretching ones neck 30 seconds to either side, will help improve blood flow and relax nerve endings.
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
November 23 2012 00:24 GMT
#33
On November 18 2012 15:36 mothergoose729 wrote:
Name: mothergoose729
Race: Terran
Match up: TvP
Your Desired Cheese: 1/1/1
His Build: 1 gate FE
Specific Map?: Antiga shipyard or entombed valley
Comments: There seems to be a couple of variants to the build, one where you attack at 8 minutes with mostly marine tank, the more popular one with cloaked banshees, and I have even seen some that hit without seige mode or with ravens. I would like to know more about he variants, there viability, and their execution if at all possible.

Thanks for you hardwork.



I'll try to figure out the best variant and do that one for you
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Salient
Profile Joined August 2011
United States876 Posts
November 23 2012 01:25 GMT
#34
The version with a raven is the most fun IMHO.
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
November 24 2012 06:59 GMT
#35
On November 23 2012 10:25 Salient wrote:
The version with a raven is the most fun IMHO.


okay I'll think about that one then
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 22:44:46
December 05 2012 22:42 GMT
#36
Added a new video! Sorry I haven't been as active lately with the series. Finals have been wearing me out!

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Puritas
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany39 Posts
December 05 2012 23:13 GMT
#37
Nameuritas
Race:Terran
Match up:TvZ
Your Desired Cheese:ANYTHING That is not 2 Rax (2 Base for Terran would be best)
His Build: Hatch First into standard fast 3rd hatch
Specific Map:None
Comments:Are there Terran Allins that work vs Zerg? I cannot think of anything that is net scouted easily and crushed
All, all are gone, the old familiar faces
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
December 06 2012 08:12 GMT
#38
On December 06 2012 07:42 MrLlama wrote:
Added a new video! Sorry I haven't been as active lately with the series. Finals have been wearing me out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoahOhMEFgQ

Nice video! You made that look astonishingly easy. I definitely need to work on my scouting, as I'm a bit sloppy atm - you've just given me some juicy scouting incentive
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
December 07 2012 07:06 GMT
#39
On December 06 2012 17:12 Hairy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 07:42 MrLlama wrote:
Added a new video! Sorry I haven't been as active lately with the series. Finals have been wearing me out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoahOhMEFgQ

Nice video! You made that look astonishingly easy. I definitely need to work on my scouting, as I'm a bit sloppy atm - you've just given me some juicy scouting incentive


Thanks!

Yeah scouting things is definitely helpful. Right there I could mass drones and just continue into macro but when I see him being greedy I can easily punish him.
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
December 12 2012 04:43 GMT
#40
So I started playing some HOTS Beta and I know the game will probably change soon but I want to inspire some ideas for new strategies with my latest video, the swarm host rush!

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
December 19 2012 02:28 GMT
#41
So today I present to you a valid opener that some people might consider cheese but it's probably not. I think because you want to roach warren to go unscouted it is somewhat of a cheese but regardless it's a great zvt opener so I thought I'd make a video for it.

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
December 19 2012 19:07 GMT
#42
On December 19 2012 11:28 MrLlama wrote:
So today I present to you a valid opener that some people might consider cheese but it's probably not. I think because you want to roach warren to go unscouted it is somewhat of a cheese but regardless it's a great zvt opener so I thought I'd make a video for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkr3Di40LOg

I hope this doesn't seem to harsh, but I wish to give constructive feedback. I much preferred earlier episodes; this felt unplanned and disorganised.

The roach rush hit at ~7 mins and expired at 8:30 - why did we watch the rest of that game right up to 19 minutes? I don't need to see how that particular game panned out right to the end; I don't care if you win the game 20 minutes later, because it's almost irrelevant! To push this example to it's limits, it's similar to saying an eco 7 pool vs protoss is bad because you lost at the 30 minute mark, or a hatch first vs terran is bad because you got beaten by battlecruisers later on. All I want to see is what situation you'll most commonly find yourself in exiting the cheese, and give examples of good midgame followups. The build order wasn't even portrayed or described very precisely, so it kind of felt like "I built some roaches, they did some damage... I guess now I'm going to cast the rest of the game".

Ideally, I'd also like to know what builds this works best against, and which it does badly against. Are there circumstances you should abandon the build, or not engage with your roaches etc? How do we prevent the enemy scouting the build? What should we do if our opponent succeeds in scouting it - should we call it off immediately? I'd like to see several 1-2 minute game segments from a few different games, displaying the strike against a several different opponent builds (or even footage of the strike on multiple of the same build) so that we can see several engagements, and their subsequent gamestates.

I hope you keep making these, because some of the cheeses have been a blast.
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
December 19 2012 20:45 GMT
#43
On December 20 2012 04:07 Hairy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 11:28 MrLlama wrote:
So today I present to you a valid opener that some people might consider cheese but it's probably not. I think because you want to roach warren to go unscouted it is somewhat of a cheese but regardless it's a great zvt opener so I thought I'd make a video for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkr3Di40LOg

I hope this doesn't seem to harsh, but I wish to give constructive feedback. I much preferred earlier episodes; this felt unplanned and disorganised.

The roach rush hit at ~7 mins and expired at 8:30 - why did we watch the rest of that game right up to 19 minutes? I don't need to see how that particular game panned out right to the end; I don't care if you win the game 20 minutes later, because it's almost irrelevant! To push this example to it's limits, it's similar to saying an eco 7 pool vs protoss is bad because you lost at the 30 minute mark, or a hatch first vs terran is bad because you got beaten by battlecruisers later on. All I want to see is what situation you'll most commonly find yourself in exiting the cheese, and give examples of good midgame followups. The build order wasn't even portrayed or described very precisely, so it kind of felt like "I built some roaches, they did some damage... I guess now I'm going to cast the rest of the game".

Ideally, I'd also like to know what builds this works best against, and which it does badly against. Are there circumstances you should abandon the build, or not engage with your roaches etc? How do we prevent the enemy scouting the build? What should we do if our opponent succeeds in scouting it - should we call it off immediately? I'd like to see several 1-2 minute game segments from a few different games, displaying the strike against a several different opponent builds (or even footage of the strike on multiple of the same build) so that we can see several engagements, and their subsequent gamestates.

I hope you keep making these, because some of the cheeses have been a blast.


I appreciate all of the feedback. The reason I continued with the game is because everyone else always got upset when I would cut it after lol. I guess it's tough to please everyone.

I agree I can go through the build order in a better way so I will definitely remember that next time.

I suppose the video is already made but I can give some explanation here:

15 hatch
16 pool
17 extractor (I did 16 in video, but either is fine)
2x Queen at pool pop
26 Roach Warren (Around 4:25-4:30)
Drone to 28
Double Overlord so you get to 44 supply
Make 4 initial roaches and then three more as minerals allow
44 3rd Hatchery
44 Take 2-3 Additional Gases
44 Evo Chamber (for spores)
Transition into midgame how you wish.


This build is good against: Hellion openers. If they go for reactor hellions you should be able to force a lift off or at least kill a lot.

This build works against: Marine openers. Your 8 roaches can trade with the marines pretty evenly and if you micro it well you can keep your roaches alive and kill his marines.

This build gets countered by: Marauders. So if they open a marauder hellion variation, RUN! Keep the roaches for the hellions and then get more lings/roaches/stuff produced to defend his push

To prevent scouting, just have queens near the entrance to your main. Any scv should be picked off by the 2 queens. If for some reason his scv is in there while your roach warren is going down (there are a couple of seconds between RW going down and queen popping) then transition by making 4 roaches instead of 7 roaches and taking your 3rd hatchery a little earlier. I still like to pressure with the 4 roaches because you can contain his hellions/kill them and you can still pick off marines/scvs.
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
December 23 2012 08:00 GMT
#44
On December 20 2012 04:07 Hairy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 11:28 MrLlama wrote:
So today I present to you a valid opener that some people might consider cheese but it's probably not. I think because you want to roach warren to go unscouted it is somewhat of a cheese but regardless it's a great zvt opener so I thought I'd make a video for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkr3Di40LOg

I hope this doesn't seem to harsh, but I wish to give constructive feedback. I much preferred earlier episodes; this felt unplanned and disorganised.

The roach rush hit at ~7 mins and expired at 8:30 - why did we watch the rest of that game right up to 19 minutes? I don't need to see how that particular game panned out right to the end; I don't care if you win the game 20 minutes later, because it's almost irrelevant! To push this example to it's limits, it's similar to saying an eco 7 pool vs protoss is bad because you lost at the 30 minute mark, or a hatch first vs terran is bad because you got beaten by battlecruisers later on. All I want to see is what situation you'll most commonly find yourself in exiting the cheese, and give examples of good midgame followups. The build order wasn't even portrayed or described very precisely, so it kind of felt like "I built some roaches, they did some damage... I guess now I'm going to cast the rest of the game".

Ideally, I'd also like to know what builds this works best against, and which it does badly against. Are there circumstances you should abandon the build, or not engage with your roaches etc? How do we prevent the enemy scouting the build? What should we do if our opponent succeeds in scouting it - should we call it off immediately? I'd like to see several 1-2 minute game segments from a few different games, displaying the strike against a several different opponent builds (or even footage of the strike on multiple of the same build) so that we can see several engagements, and their subsequent gamestates.

I hope you keep making these, because some of the cheeses have been a blast.


due to your comment (and a couple others), I have remade the video. Hopefully this is a lot better suited to what you were looking for.

www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
December 24 2012 10:36 GMT
#45
Much better imo - the build this time was described fully, and overall it just felt better organised. It made me want to subscribe to the guides, rather than unsubscribe!

After the full demonstration in one game, I still would have liked to see a little section that's 2-3 further games against different opponents, each just showing the ~7-9 minute section of the game only; the attack hitting his base, and a mini-evaluation of the state of the game after the attack has run its course.

GJ though, and happy christmas ^^
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
The WingNut
Profile Joined February 2012
United States35 Posts
December 24 2012 20:25 GMT
#46
Name: Schnoodles
Race: Terran
Match up: TvP
Your Build: Proxy Thor/SCV repair All-in
Specific Map?: Any I guess
Replay: http://drop.sc/287321
Comments: This is a fun cheese that I would like to see some tips on refining
Bahku
Profile Joined August 2012
United States182 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-27 13:40:42
December 26 2012 09:34 GMT
#47
No Terran builds yet? Check out StimmedProbe's TvZ 4thor rush, if you count a 2-base all-in as "cheese."

This is not a traditional "rush" since it follows a 1-rax FE, but it's pretty damn cheesy. Basically, 4 thors as fast as possible with a handful of marines, pull 20 SCV's on autorepair, and it's almost unstoppable with good execution. I did this build standard for a while, but it was just too easy to win with it so now I stay at home with the 4 thors for an impenetrable defense lol.

Check out this page for more info, build order & replays.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StimmedProbe's_4xThor_Push
MrLlama
Profile Joined December 2010
United States454 Posts
December 28 2012 22:17 GMT
#48
On December 26 2012 18:34 Bahku wrote:
No Terran builds yet? Check out StimmedProbe's TvZ 4thor rush, if you count a 2-base all-in as "cheese."

This is not a traditional "rush" since it follows a 1-rax FE, but it's pretty damn cheesy. Basically, 4 thors as fast as possible with a handful of marines, pull 20 SCV's on autorepair, and it's almost unstoppable with good execution. I did this build standard for a while, but it was just too easy to win with it so now I stay at home with the 4 thors for an impenetrable defense lol.

Check out this page for more info, build order & replays.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StimmedProbe's_4xThor_Push


Thor rushes are very stronggg....definitely something to check out and demonstrate
www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos
DashedHopes
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada414 Posts
December 28 2012 22:50 GMT
#49
Name: Dionysus
Race: Toss
Match up: PvZ
Your Desired Cheese: 2 Base Collosus Stalker blink
His Build: Not very specific FFE into 7 gate blink and 2 collosus
Specific Map?: Anyone that is good for blink stalkers
Comments: Get blink, Collosi range keep poking up the side until you can fully commit and win
Dawsmonkee
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom31 Posts
January 08 2013 09:21 GMT
#50
Hey MrLlama :-)

Happy New Year! Just want to give this post a little bump in the hope that you do some more videos. I must say, since I've seen your ZvP ling bling bust, my last 20 ZvP games I have won 17 lost 3. Incredible success rate on that build.

I just need a bit more guidance ZvZ wise and then I'm golden, but there are many other builds you have been requested to do - so would just like to say, more videos please!
Regret the things you do, not the things you don't
govie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
9334 Posts
January 08 2013 10:58 GMT
#51
To give the terrans hope!

Name : govie
Race: Terran
Match up: TvP (and sometimes TvT as shown in replay)
Your Desired Cheese: 1 Base 2 proxy Planetary fortress rush
The Build: 2-proxy Planetary fortress rush that just makes everybody smile. The comments are hilarious when they fly in there base
Specific Map?: Anyone that is good for proxy-ing 2 cc's
Replay: 1v1 2-proxy planetary fortress rush against plat
Comments: Needs some tweaking here and there, but i'm only silver. In this replay i forgot upgrades, gastimings were off and should have lifted more scv's to repair etcetc. I added replay of a win against a plat. terran going 1raxFE into3 rax.
The two NBA teams in states with legal weed are called the Nuggets and the Blazers...
Dawsmonkee
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom31 Posts
February 18 2013 10:54 GMT
#52
Hey Mr Llama!

Time to start making some videos of HOTS cheese! Gogo :-)

Cheers!
Daws
Regret the things you do, not the things you don't
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2142 Posts
February 18 2013 11:56 GMT
#53
This is really cool. Good job :D
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