EPT[G] Cheese With Ease: Video Series - Page 3
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MrLlama
United States454 Posts
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On December 19 2012 11:28 MrLlama wrote: So today I present to you a valid opener that some people might consider cheese but it's probably not. I think because you want to roach warren to go unscouted it is somewhat of a cheese but regardless it's a great zvt opener so I thought I'd make a video for it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkr3Di40LOg I hope this doesn't seem to harsh, but I wish to give constructive feedback. I much preferred earlier episodes; this felt unplanned and disorganised. The roach rush hit at ~7 mins and expired at 8:30 - why did we watch the rest of that game right up to 19 minutes? I don't need to see how that particular game panned out right to the end; I don't care if you win the game 20 minutes later, because it's almost irrelevant! To push this example to it's limits, it's similar to saying an eco 7 pool vs protoss is bad because you lost at the 30 minute mark, or a hatch first vs terran is bad because you got beaten by battlecruisers later on. All I want to see is what situation you'll most commonly find yourself in exiting the cheese, and give examples of good midgame followups. The build order wasn't even portrayed or described very precisely, so it kind of felt like "I built some roaches, they did some damage... I guess now I'm going to cast the rest of the game". Ideally, I'd also like to know what builds this works best against, and which it does badly against. Are there circumstances you should abandon the build, or not engage with your roaches etc? How do we prevent the enemy scouting the build? What should we do if our opponent succeeds in scouting it - should we call it off immediately? I'd like to see several 1-2 minute game segments from a few different games, displaying the strike against a several different opponent builds (or even footage of the strike on multiple of the same build) so that we can see several engagements, and their subsequent gamestates. I hope you keep making these, because some of the cheeses have been a blast.  | ||
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MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On December 20 2012 04:07 Hairy wrote: I hope this doesn't seem to harsh, but I wish to give constructive feedback. I much preferred earlier episodes; this felt unplanned and disorganised. The roach rush hit at ~7 mins and expired at 8:30 - why did we watch the rest of that game right up to 19 minutes? I don't need to see how that particular game panned out right to the end; I don't care if you win the game 20 minutes later, because it's almost irrelevant! To push this example to it's limits, it's similar to saying an eco 7 pool vs protoss is bad because you lost at the 30 minute mark, or a hatch first vs terran is bad because you got beaten by battlecruisers later on. All I want to see is what situation you'll most commonly find yourself in exiting the cheese, and give examples of good midgame followups. The build order wasn't even portrayed or described very precisely, so it kind of felt like "I built some roaches, they did some damage... I guess now I'm going to cast the rest of the game". Ideally, I'd also like to know what builds this works best against, and which it does badly against. Are there circumstances you should abandon the build, or not engage with your roaches etc? How do we prevent the enemy scouting the build? What should we do if our opponent succeeds in scouting it - should we call it off immediately? I'd like to see several 1-2 minute game segments from a few different games, displaying the strike against a several different opponent builds (or even footage of the strike on multiple of the same build) so that we can see several engagements, and their subsequent gamestates. I hope you keep making these, because some of the cheeses have been a blast. I appreciate all of the feedback. The reason I continued with the game is because everyone else always got upset when I would cut it after lol. I guess it's tough to please everyone. I agree I can go through the build order in a better way so I will definitely remember that next time. I suppose the video is already made but I can give some explanation here: 15 hatch 16 pool 17 extractor (I did 16 in video, but either is fine) 2x Queen at pool pop 26 Roach Warren (Around 4:25-4:30) Drone to 28 Double Overlord so you get to 44 supply Make 4 initial roaches and then three more as minerals allow 44 3rd Hatchery 44 Take 2-3 Additional Gases 44 Evo Chamber (for spores) Transition into midgame how you wish. This build is good against: Hellion openers. If they go for reactor hellions you should be able to force a lift off or at least kill a lot. This build works against: Marine openers. Your 8 roaches can trade with the marines pretty evenly and if you micro it well you can keep your roaches alive and kill his marines. This build gets countered by: Marauders. So if they open a marauder hellion variation, RUN! Keep the roaches for the hellions and then get more lings/roaches/stuff produced to defend his push To prevent scouting, just have queens near the entrance to your main. Any scv should be picked off by the 2 queens. If for some reason his scv is in there while your roach warren is going down (there are a couple of seconds between RW going down and queen popping) then transition by making 4 roaches instead of 7 roaches and taking your 3rd hatchery a little earlier. I still like to pressure with the 4 roaches because you can contain his hellions/kill them and you can still pick off marines/scvs. | ||
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MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On December 20 2012 04:07 Hairy wrote: I hope this doesn't seem to harsh, but I wish to give constructive feedback. I much preferred earlier episodes; this felt unplanned and disorganised. The roach rush hit at ~7 mins and expired at 8:30 - why did we watch the rest of that game right up to 19 minutes? I don't need to see how that particular game panned out right to the end; I don't care if you win the game 20 minutes later, because it's almost irrelevant! To push this example to it's limits, it's similar to saying an eco 7 pool vs protoss is bad because you lost at the 30 minute mark, or a hatch first vs terran is bad because you got beaten by battlecruisers later on. All I want to see is what situation you'll most commonly find yourself in exiting the cheese, and give examples of good midgame followups. The build order wasn't even portrayed or described very precisely, so it kind of felt like "I built some roaches, they did some damage... I guess now I'm going to cast the rest of the game". Ideally, I'd also like to know what builds this works best against, and which it does badly against. Are there circumstances you should abandon the build, or not engage with your roaches etc? How do we prevent the enemy scouting the build? What should we do if our opponent succeeds in scouting it - should we call it off immediately? I'd like to see several 1-2 minute game segments from a few different games, displaying the strike against a several different opponent builds (or even footage of the strike on multiple of the same build) so that we can see several engagements, and their subsequent gamestates. I hope you keep making these, because some of the cheeses have been a blast. due to your comment (and a couple others), I have remade the video. Hopefully this is a lot better suited to what you were looking for. | ||
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
 After the full demonstration in one game, I still would have liked to see a little section that's 2-3 further games against different opponents, each just showing the ~7-9 minute section of the game only; the attack hitting his base, and a mini-evaluation of the state of the game after the attack has run its course. GJ though, and happy christmas ^^ | ||
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The WingNut
United States35 Posts
Race: Terran Match up: TvP Your Build: Proxy Thor/SCV repair All-in Specific Map?: Any I guess Replay: http://drop.sc/287321 Comments: This is a fun cheese that I would like to see some tips on refining | ||
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Bahku
United States182 Posts
This is not a traditional "rush" since it follows a 1-rax FE, but it's pretty damn cheesy. Basically, 4 thors as fast as possible with a handful of marines, pull 20 SCV's on autorepair, and it's almost unstoppable with good execution. I did this build standard for a while, but it was just too easy to win with it so now I stay at home with the 4 thors for an impenetrable defense lol. Check out this page for more info, build order & replays. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StimmedProbe's_4xThor_Push | ||
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MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On December 26 2012 18:34 Bahku wrote: No Terran builds yet? Check out StimmedProbe's TvZ 4thor rush, if you count a 2-base all-in as "cheese." This is not a traditional "rush" since it follows a 1-rax FE, but it's pretty damn cheesy. Basically, 4 thors as fast as possible with a handful of marines, pull 20 SCV's on autorepair, and it's almost unstoppable with good execution. I did this build standard for a while, but it was just too easy to win with it so now I stay at home with the 4 thors for an impenetrable defense lol. Check out this page for more info, build order & replays. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StimmedProbe's_4xThor_Push Thor rushes are very stronggg....definitely something to check out and demonstrate | ||
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DashedHopes
Canada414 Posts
Race: Toss Match up: PvZ Your Desired Cheese: 2 Base Collosus Stalker blink His Build: Not very specific FFE into 7 gate blink and 2 collosus Specific Map?: Anyone that is good for blink stalkers Comments: Get blink, Collosi range keep poking up the side until you can fully commit and win | ||
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Dawsmonkee
United Kingdom31 Posts
Happy New Year! Just want to give this post a little bump in the hope that you do some more videos. I must say, since I've seen your ZvP ling bling bust, my last 20 ZvP games I have won 17 lost 3. Incredible success rate on that build. I just need a bit more guidance ZvZ wise and then I'm golden, but there are many other builds you have been requested to do - so would just like to say, more videos please! | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
Name : govie Race: Terran Match up: TvP (and sometimes TvT as shown in replay) Your Desired Cheese: 1 Base 2 proxy Planetary fortress rush The Build: 2-proxy Planetary fortress rush that just makes everybody smile. The comments are hilarious when they fly in there base Specific Map?: Anyone that is good for proxy-ing 2 cc's Replay: 1v1 2-proxy planetary fortress rush against plat Comments: Needs some tweaking here and there, but i'm only silver. In this replay i forgot upgrades, gastimings were off and should have lifted more scv's to repair etcetc. I added replay of a win against a plat. terran going 1raxFE into3 rax. | ||
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Dawsmonkee
United Kingdom31 Posts
Time to start making some videos of HOTS cheese! Gogo :-) Cheers! Daws | ||
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
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