EPTGSL Mini Mafia III
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
You definitely know something I don't. ##Vote austinmcc | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
I had hoped to take a break from mafia, as last game totally destroyed me, but I could not refuse such a heart-warming invitation from mr. Blazinghand. I will firstly say that I will be a bit less active this game, as an attempt to balance out real life and this game, something in which I fail to do and feel strongly about trying. The game started rather abruptly, and I had hoped I could have said this earlier so as to not be confused with "scum trying to set up an excuse". I assure you all, however, that I will try my very best in the daily time I have reserved to play the game, whether as town or scum :D That being said, let's get down to business. The insta-lynch mechanic The last thing we want is an abrupt, pre-meditated lynch. This is bad for town, because the ultimate decision will ride in the hands of the few, possibly leaving the victim with zero chance of defending itself. This supports personal motivation. As town we should strive for a discussed and thought-out lynch, leaving almost no doubts on the motivation for the lynch. So I propose this system:
I think this would be helpful because it avoids the "hammer vote" and stimulates a more discussed and reasoned lynch. It's the best I could think of atm in order to avoid confusion and bad decisions. A bit of a complication to the regular game, but worth it, in my opinion. Regarding the votes on DarthPunk At the moment I'm viewing these as "spark discussion"? Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, if this isn't the case. Scum don't plan on asking people if they are blues so they tell them. To me this is a null-tell. It worries me how it was enough to pull out two votes, in a game such a fragile as this. While this: On October 20 2012 09:49 drazak wrote: I can't imagine someone in this game giving a truly awful hammer vote, would probably HAVE to be extreme circumstances. Is a plausible line of thinking, it is also a risky. A hammer vote will inevitably be essential, and we should strive to not use the "omg omg he hammered a townie, he's scum!" argument. @Drazak Why did you feel the need to vote for DP after iamperfection? If it was merely an attempt to promote discussion, then why didn't you do it beforehand? The fact that you said it after IAMP in such a manner tells me that you actually mean what you said. I find this highly suspicious, as someone hoping to stimulate discussion would have merely voted. Please explain yourself, as it seems you genuinely find DP scum. I don't buy this: On October 20 2012 10:05 drazak wrote: Well, I kind of thought it was stupid, but yeah, it starts conversation and forces him to reply. Seemed like he was replying pretty well on his own though so I was gonna leave it, but the connection seems to have gone dead. Given your actions. ##FOS drazak | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Anywho, On October 20 2012 13:15 Hapahauli wrote: I go off to play some TF2 and the thread blows up - sweet! Regarding DP If I'm getting his logic correctly, he used "role" instead of "allignment" when questioning Draz because scum will somehow be under more pressure if they fakeclaim later, correct? Well it doesn't make sense, but it's not scummy. The fact that he's sitting here and earnestly explaining incomprehensible logic away makes me think he's town tbh. Regarding Draz I coached Drazak in two newbie games, so I feel I should say something about his meta/playstyle. Drazak got mislynched in both his games (pretty early) for lurkiness/wishy-washyness as town. Nothing he's done is alignment indicative so far. I will say he's shown much more interest in this game than his previous games FWIW. Nothing to make a read on him yet. Yea, it doesn't make much sense. I don't think it's scummy, but I sure don't think it's townie either. A scum in his position would certainly have to justify himself as well, I don't see why you are taking this to be a town read this early on. This meta read, however, makes me less suspicious of drazak for that vote alone. Right now I'm more interested in Keirathi. Made this one easy-to-make post, and didn't really stick around, made no other comments. This seems to me like too easy of a post for someone like Keir to make, and doesn't seem genuine. On October 20 2012 12:19 Keirathi wrote: I completely agree with vader here. I mean, DP, what if Draz is a blue. What do you expect him to say? Of course he's not going to claim a blue role (I hope), a few hours into day 1. So, he claims Progamer. Then he gets close to lynch, and says "Okay, I'm actually Nestea. Don't lynch me!". What are you going to do, lynch him because he lied and said he was progamer 3 hours into the game? I call bullshit. You know that everyone is going to claim progamer just the same as everyone is going to claim green. There were many acceptable replies iamp's accusation. Yours was not one of them. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On October 21 2012 00:46 Hapahauli wrote: @ Z-Bo It's one of those really over-thought-out plans that aligns very well with townie thought process. Not definitive by any means, but I do consider it a town tell. Whatever the meta read, he's posted more in this game already than his last town game (mislynched D1). He seems very eager to post, and that makes me think he's town. His defenses have been instant (and IMO honest), and mulling over his history, I'd be pretty surprised if that came from scum-Drazak. Yah I'm a bit surprised at how little Kei has contributed so far. Early D1 caveats of course, but I always had the impression that his town play was very active on the early days. Wait a minute, when trying to assess DP's townieness, you first said: The fact that he's sitting here and earnestly explaining incomprehensible logic away makes me think he's town tbh. This is much different than: It's one of those really over-thought-out plans that aligns very well with townie thought process. Not definitive by any means, but I do consider it a town tell. In the first instance, you are atributing your town read to DP's "sitting here and earnestly explaining his logic". In the second, it's not his defense at all, but it's actually his own "plan". I will agree with you on the second one, but when I disagreed on the first one, why did you pull out another reason instead of commenting on the first? Why did you find DP's defensiveness to be a town tell? Keir is not necessarily active in day one, but what he does not do is make a post like that and disappear. In liquid city, when he found something he thought to be interesting, he stayed around for a while to further investigate it. In this game, however, there were a series of posts immediately after his own in which he did not comment on and did not say anything about. I find this to be quite unsettling. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 21 2012 01:18 Keirathi wrote: It was friday night. I went out. I wasn't expecting the game to start yesterday, and I wasn't going to change my plans anyways. Also, that's such a blanket statement (and not even necessarily a true one...I've not been super active early in like half of my games), that has absolutely nothing to do with my alignment. I was "very active" in the early game as scum too. So what was the point of even saying that? What the fuck does that even mean? "Someone like Keir"? And also, explain how that post isn't genuine, please. Darth's post, pre-explanation, made absolutely zero sense, and I disagreed with him asking it. Post-explanation, it was still dumb and never going to accomplish what he said his "goal" was, but at least I understand his reasoning now. Anyways, its gameday. I'll be around off and on today, but not sitting at the computer all day. Why the overreaction? I found your post to be an useless agreement that didn't add anything, and your lack of follow-up even more suspicious. The underlined is why I didn't find it to be genuine, given that there were a string of posts after your own which dealt with it. I fully agree that it was dumb, but you left no opinion of it. That's just saying something and drawing no conclusions from it, and even worse, not looking like you want to draw any conclusions. I can be wrong here, but your post to me didn't feel genuine and I think that makes you suspicious. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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I see now, you referred to his over-thought out plan as "incomprehensible logic". Not gonna sweat over your choice of words, but I felt that needed some clearing up. You're obviously not scum... right? right?? @iamperfection Do you still find DP to be scum now that you have woken up? @Keirathi Ok, I'm not buying. On October 21 2012 01:47 Keirathi wrote: What? I made it perfectly clear what my opinion on it was. It was a bullshit post, and I called it that, and wanted him to explain. I was not, and am not, going to make any decisions about his alignment based on that. He at least provided a plausible explanation, even if it does feel a little "made up after-the-fact" because someone called him out on it. I don't think it makes him scummy, nor do I think it makes him town. What, exactly, is the point of saying "Yea, he's still neutral"? The point is not to say "he's still neutral". It's just a reasonable thing to inquire from you. You ask someone to answer for something, this someone answers it, and it's expected that you post a follow-up. You find something weird enough to call bullshit on, and just like that you don't bother again, and actually feel like this is warranted later on? I'm not buying your defense here. | ||
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On October 21 2012 02:07 Keirathi wrote: Your whole problem seems to be that I left instead of sticking around discussing things. I'm not going to keep responding to you here. I had plans. I wasn't going to cancel them because the game started semi-unexpectedly. If you have a problem with that, then tough titties. That's fine. I'd have been off your tail already if not for this: What, exactly, is the point of saying "Yea, he's still neutral"? It seems like an additional and unneeded excuse for not following up your inquiries on DP. Drawing conclusions != giving out alignments. I have my eye on you. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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##Unvote Let's not die guys. This game will take forever if it's this inactive. Austin, you've played with Kei in liquid city. What do you make of him? | ||
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Z-BosoN
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atm I don't have any real suspect that I'd be willing to place my vote on. I'm leaning townie on Drazak and DarthPunk. Not too sure on Hapahauli, his play right now seems a bit passive compared to his usual self. Feels like he's using the same tell over and over again (i.e. posting something than disappearing) and being a little uncharacteristically calm with his pressuring. My top suspicions, nevertheless, are iamperfection, Keirathi and v7. I will not be placing my vote on v7 yet, at least until he has a chance to defend himself and make any sort of contribution. I feel his absence is not necessarily alignment-indicative, for now. @marv How has Keir not been receiving attention, I spent quite some time tunneling him. I'll point this out once again, which is something I'm finding important and would like to see your comment on. When I questioned him about his lack of follow-up, he mentioned his IRL excuses, which was already perfectly fair, but he felt the need to add this: On October 21 2012 01:47 Keirathi wrote: What? I made it perfectly clear what my opinion on it was. It was a bullshit post, and I called it that, and wanted him to explain. I was not, and am not, going to make any decisions about his alignment based on that. He at least provided a plausible explanation, even if it does feel a little "made up after-the-fact" because someone called him out on it. I don't think it makes him scummy, nor do I think it makes him town. What, exactly, is the point of saying "Yea, he's still neutral"? Which, to me, feels like an attempt of an additional excuse. Also, I find it interesting that you did not mention iamperfection, who's championed his first vote on DarthPunk and made no further comment on it, which I'm finding increasingly scummy - as Liquid City iamperfection was much more active and helpful. @Keirathi I will leave you alone for now, in regards to the above. Anyways, a question on the bolded part: On October 21 2012 13:28 Keirathi wrote: I don't really like Draz's explanation either. First, unvoting isn't being "wishy-washy", assuming you explain yourself. But hell, its not like you even unvoted, nor was DP calling you out FOR unvoting. He was calling you out for leaving your vote on someone who you ostensibly don't believe is scum. It's not a "trap", because he hasn't said anything about you unvoting being scummy to begin with. Voting for someone isn't inherently scummy, obviously, but leaving your vote on someone that you don't have a scum read on is certainly on the scummy side (although, I will admit, that I've seen townies do it too. That doesn't make the action itself less scummy, just that townies can, at times, play scummily). Second, putting pressure isn't scummy either. But, you're not actually putting pressure on him. You just parked a vote there and haven't done anything with it. THAT is scummy. What is the point of your vote right now? Does this mean you also have a scum read on iamperfection? He basically did the same thing, and went awol. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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Z-BosoN
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On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? @marv I don't mean for you to comment on every single thing in the game. I wouldn't have cared if you talked about my idea or not, as it already clearly didn't stick. What I wanted is comments on the main things going through my head right now, so as to consolidate my views. I don't see why your first interpretation of what I said was that I wanted you "to comment on everything in the game". Seems odd and fairly defensive. | ||
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The bit I'm referring you is last game you using the "omg you are scum trying to pull a mislynch" argument you were using as a defense On October 21 2012 23:33 DarthPunk wrote: Everyone is acting weird this game tho. Marv afk for two days. Hapa not really scumhunting and making mainly town reads that I am not sure are entirely rational based on the information available. Austin attacking logic rather than motive than finding everyone who did the same suspicious ZB looking alot closer to his scum meta thatn his town meta. Not enough yet for a real push on any of them. But this is a strange game. Yea, if it's because of activity, then refer to my first post. I was doing the same thing you were and taking a break, but I couldn't refuse a damn invite, so right now I'm trying to balance this out with RL. I'm pretty fucking townie though, so :/ Also, you still think drazak is scum despite what some people have said? Main reason you find him scum is: "he thinks I'm town and yet still voted for me, correct?" | ||
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I have to go with marv here. This is something he is usually very strong on, from my talks with him - and he's generally right. He will also make this assessment as both town and scum, so it's pretty sure he means it (unless for some 0.005% ungodly reason they are both scum and marv told him to say something like that or w/e). Scum are 10x more careful about what they say, even if they are new. Remember XXVIII? Almost everyone had some sort of flip-flop looking scummy relation with kush, except for the actual scum. Anyways, I'm null leaning townie on drazak, and I don't think we should be voting for him, at least right now. | ||
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Or he has learned the fine art of faking his town day1 meta. Let us wait and see. Right now I do not want to lynch either DP or Drazak. Hapa and marv will evidently have to wait (though I'm a bit weary of you both). Can't make scum reads out of iamp, austin. So, in my POV, that leaves Keir and v7 to be lynched. v7 is certainly looking like the more juicier target. I'm not sure I want to kill him just yet before he's had a chance to defend himself. What do you guys propose? | ||
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On October 22 2012 00:36 DarthPunk wrote: If I am right I am going to obnoxiously ungraceful about it. ^_^ he can certainly be scum dude. It's just that I don't feel like what we have here today is enough to annihilate him, given his meta and his current posting. | ||
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On October 22 2012 00:41 marvellosity wrote: Z-Bo, I love that you're wary of me and then you conclude your post with the two reads I had. Woe is me ^_^ Don't understand this logic. I must conclude you are town to agree with your reads? So if I think v7 is scum, then everyone who finds him suspicious I cannot be weary off? + Show Spoiler + Also, fuck off, I found keir first  | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 22 2012 00:51 marvellosity wrote: wary, not weary dear. And back off, tiger. No of course I don't have to be town, but if someone agrees with my reads, I generally feel better about them. The "woe is me ^^" was supposed to indicate I wasn't deadly serious. @DP: T.T Wary. K. Yea, I didn't get the " woe is me" bit, just figured that's some stupid thing brits say. On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! So guys, it's wonderful that we are having this little afternoon chat. Let's take advantage of it and discuss what is going to be the general policy here. v7 has 3 straight votes and 3 other people to find him suspicious. The only reason he's not dead yet is that we are giving him some time to properly post, right? I think, for now, we should move our focus to other people. In the eventuality he is town, scum are generally gonna stay quiet and let him die, which I fear might be what is happening. I'm going to read a little more on other people I've not given much attention and see what I can figure. Mainly, iamp and austin. (Austin has yet to make a case on me, definitely not his town meta) | ||
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