Will try to lurk less. Last game was my first, and I didn't want to make myself look like an idiot, so I think that had a negative effect on my posting.
Live & learn.
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
Will try to lurk less. Last game was my first, and I didn't want to make myself look like an idiot, so I think that had a negative effect on my posting. Live & learn. | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
About me This is my second newbie game. In the first game I had a good read on Kush, but I didn't post enough, or have the amount of content needed in a post to get him lynched. This time though, if I have a good read that some one is scum, they are going down. Lurker Policy Well, like in the previous game, I think that a pure lurker lynch policy will end up hurting town and benefiting mafia as the game progresses. If we have no reasonable scum lead by the end of the day, then I think town hasn't been trying hard enough. So think fucking positive, we will find them! | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote: + Show Spoiler + First!! whats up guys it's kush. About me I have been told many times I have a "scummy meta." Not really fair since last game I did roll scum so I didn't really get a chance to show improvement in my town play. I'm working on it guys. This is my 4th newbie game so I'm experienced as possible to play in this game. Also I think rolling scum last game will help my reads greatly. I know how those fuckers think. Everyone say how you feel about lurker policy. I take kind of a middle of the ground stance. I mean if you have like 3 lurkers obviously you shouldn't waste 3 nights killing them off 1 by 1. If I think someone is scummy than I vote for that person. If I don't have any good scumreads then I will be in favor of lynching a lurker. Usually what seems to happen is town can't decide so they bandwagon on some lurker at the last second. I'm not against this since it keeps pressure on possible scum. I don't like people to say oh we are definitely lynching a lurker d1, because then scum feels safe as long as they are somewhat active. My willingness to lynch a lurker decreases as the game progresses. For example I think lynching a lurker d3 is really bad. Message to scum: I can smell you. Question, how does bandwagoning onto a lurker last second keep pressure on scum? Also, you're not against this? Care to elaborate more on this, because it sounds like you saying switching votes last second is okay. On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? Obviously I'm not going to be nk. What they said ^ | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
While I do this though, could you address this post Kush? That bolded part still stands out to me. On September 28 2012 12:57 RemedySC wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote: + Show Spoiler + First!! whats up guys it's kush. About me I have been told many times I have a "scummy meta." Not really fair since last game I did roll scum so I didn't really get a chance to show improvement in my town play. I'm working on it guys. This is my 4th newbie game so I'm experienced as possible to play in this game. Also I think rolling scum last game will help my reads greatly. I know how those fuckers think. Everyone say how you feel about lurker policy. I take kind of a middle of the ground stance. I mean if you have like 3 lurkers obviously you shouldn't waste 3 nights killing them off 1 by 1. If I think someone is scummy than I vote for that person. If I don't have any good scumreads then I will be in favor of lynching a lurker. Usually what seems to happen is town can't decide so they bandwagon on some lurker at the last second. I'm not against this since it keeps pressure on possible scum. I don't like people to say oh we are definitely lynching a lurker d1, because then scum feels safe as long as they are somewhat active. My willingness to lynch a lurker decreases as the game progresses. For example I think lynching a lurker d3 is really bad. Message to scum: I can smell you. Question, how does bandwagoning onto a lurker last second keep pressure on scum? Also, you're not against this? Care to elaborate more on this, because it sounds like you saying switching votes last second is okay. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? Obviously I'm not going to be nk. What they said ^ | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:47 corrosion wrote: @Remedy You made two posts without much content early on D1, and there's been nothing since then. You implied that you were going to contribute more than last game you played. So why don't you tell us about your reads so far? First the bolded part... Really?? Your three prior posts are screaming with content... /sarcasm off. Anyways the case on Kush looks pretty damning to me right now. I see no town motivation at all. There is maybe two posts that could be considered scum hunting, but he doesn't seem to be pursuing any more information from his "top scum reads" [B]On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:[/B. Message to scum: I can smell you. Please kush, find some scum. If you are town that would be the best thing for you right now. Because right now, you have 3 pages of posts and very little indication on who you think is scum. Also he literally ignores Hapa's advice from the previous game. This kind of play won't work in regular games, why keep on with this attitude? Here is the post with the advice in question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=75#1498 You're not posting in a pro town manner at all this game. | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
On September 29 2012 12:03 kushm4sta wrote: Honestly....im scummy as hell? your 2 favorite phrases combined into 1. I do play to win but I don't play for the town to win. I play for me to win. Just a different style is all. I don't care about a town I can't be a part of. You can be a part of a town if you attempted it. The three main goals from Ver's mafia guide are - 1) Get useful information (often achieved via point 2) 2) Create an ideal atmosphere (will go over this in detail in town guide) 3) Figure out your plans/direction You are not creating an ideal atmosphere. Scum want the total opposite of those three points. I don't see any of those goals fitting you this game, but feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Until then though... ##Vote Kushm4sta | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: Let me just state the reasons that my vote is on Kush right now: I'm sorry, but I don't believe these are reasons a town would choose to make a vote. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: 1) I think his explanation of the slip was poor. If he had given a good explanation, I might have believed him. So the scum slip itself doesn't give you good reason to vote for him, but his poor defense does? A mafia making a scum slip could have the best explanation in the world. That doesn't exonerate them. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: 2) I've been thinking about who would benefit if the result is a no-lynch. I'm thinking mafia is likely to benefit the most from a no-lynch. So your second reason isn't even something that Kush has done. Wouldn't you also say that mafia would benefit from a mis-lynch more than from a no-lynch? Could you elaborate more on the bolded part, because you give no explanation as to how a mafia would benefit more from a no-lynch. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: Right now, I think that there's more than a 25 % chance that Kush is scum. Therefore, I'm voting for him. I'm not sure if any of these points are original. I'm having trouble keeping up with the thread, because I tend to get hanged up in details. You would think a town would want to be more than 25% sure the person they are voting for is scum. You don't even have any cases made against kush. No questions asked. Very vague reasons given... | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
On September 30 2012 07:21 Omniscient4983 wrote: I've been reading through RemedySC's filter. I found his last post in particular a bit odd. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: Let me just state the reasons that my vote is on Kush right now: I'm sorry, but I don't believe these are reasons a town would choose to make a vote. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: 1) I think his explanation of the slip was poor. If he had given a good explanation, I might have believed him. So the scum slip itself doesn't give you good reason to vote for him, but his poor defense does? A mafia making a scum slip could have the best explanation in the world. That doesn't exonerate them. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: 2) I've been thinking about who would benefit if the result is a no-lynch. I'm thinking mafia is likely to benefit the most from a no-lynch. So your second reason isn't even something that Kush has done. Wouldn't you also say that mafia would benefit from a mis-lynch more than from a no-lynch? Could you elaborate more on the bolded part, because you give no explanation as to how a mafia would benefit more from a no-lynch. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: Right now, I think that there's more than a 25 % chance that Kush is scum. Therefore, I'm voting for him. I'm not sure if any of these points are original. I'm having trouble keeping up with the thread, because I tend to get hanged up in details. You would think a town would want to be more than 25% sure the person they are voting for is scum. You don't even have any cases made against kush. No questions asked. Very vague reasons given... 1.I find it odd that RSC was attacking Corrosion for voting Kush. At this point in the game, RSC had already cast his vote for Kush, and his best reason was: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 12:14 RemedySC wrote: You [Kush] are not creating an ideal atmosphere. 2.RSC doesn't really have much motivation for voting Kush, other than the fact that he's disruptive to the gameplay environment. Yet, he picks apart Corrosion for voting him. I don't understand why he'd attack Corrosion's "poor reasons" at all. Take a look at the bolded part of the spoiler. He condemns Corrosion for not having made any cases again Kush, yet RSC himself hasn't done anything of the sort. RSC hasn't posted anything in regards to Kush being scum besides the "creating a bad atmosphere" and "not posting in a pro-town manner" argument. RSC doesn't seem to be any more sure than Corrosion is about lynching Kush, yet he is condemning Corrosion for having bad reasoning. His post seems hypocritical to me. @RemedySC 3.Why, if you had voted Kush with such little evidence, were you outing Corrosion for doing something similar? You almost seemed as if you were defending Kush for no reason in this post. I'm curious, and would like to hear your opinion on things. 1. I wasn't defending Kush, if that is what you are implying. I found it very hypocritical of corrosion to say that I have little content in my posts, and than make posts with little content also. 2. I feel like you just skimmed through my filter. You say the point about the bad atmosphere is the only one I've made... Ahem - + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 12:57 RemedySC wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote: + Show Spoiler + First!! whats up guys it's kush. About me I have been told many times I have a "scummy meta." Not really fair since last game I did roll scum so I didn't really get a chance to show improvement in my town play. I'm working on it guys. This is my 4th newbie game so I'm experienced as possible to play in this game. Also I think rolling scum last game will help my reads greatly. I know how those fuckers think. Everyone say how you feel about lurker policy. I take kind of a middle of the ground stance. I mean if you have like 3 lurkers obviously you shouldn't waste 3 nights killing them off 1 by 1. If I think someone is scummy than I vote for that person. If I don't have any good scumreads then I will be in favor of lynching a lurker. Usually what seems to happen is town can't decide so they bandwagon on some lurker at the last second. I'm not against this since it keeps pressure on possible scum. I don't like people to say oh we are definitely lynching a lurker d1, because then scum feels safe as long as they are somewhat active. My willingness to lynch a lurker decreases as the game progresses. For example I think lynching a lurker d3 is really bad. Message to scum: I can smell you. Question, how does bandwagoning onto a lurker last second keep pressure on scum? Also, you're not against this? Care to elaborate more on this, because it sounds like you saying switching votes last second is okay. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? Obviously I'm not going to be nk. What they said ^ + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 09:14 RemedySC wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 02:47 corrosion wrote: @Remedy You made two posts without much content early on D1, and there's been nothing since then. You implied that you were going to contribute more than last game you played. So why don't you tell us about your reads so far? First the bolded part... Really?? Your three prior posts are screaming with content... /sarcasm off. Anyways the case on Kush looks pretty damning to me right now. I see no town motivation at all. There is maybe two posts that could be considered scum hunting, but he doesn't seem to be pursuing any more information from his "top scum reads" Please kush, find some scum. If you are town that would be the best thing for you right now. Because right now, you have 3 pages of posts and very little indication on who you think is scum. Also he literally ignores Hapa's advice from the previous game. This kind of play won't work in regular games, why keep on with this attitude? Here is the post with the advice in question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=75#1498 You're not posting in a pro town manner at all this game. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 12:14 RemedySC wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 12:03 kushm4sta wrote: Honestly....im scummy as hell? your 2 favorite phrases combined into 1. I do play to win but I don't play for the town to win. I play for me to win. Just a different style is all. I don't care about a town I can't be a part of. You can be a part of a town if you attempted it. The three main goals from Ver's mafia guide are - Show nested quote + 1) Get useful information (often achieved via point 2) 2) Create an ideal atmosphere (will go over this in detail in town guide) 3) Figure out your plans/direction You are not creating an ideal atmosphere. Scum want the total opposite of those three points. I don't see any of those goals fitting you this game, but feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Until then though... ##Vote Kushm4sta Also I wasn't picking him apart for voting for him. I was picking him apart because his "reason" for voting Kush had nothing. Prior to this he called me out on no content, so you would think a guys calling someone else on no content would have a bit more than one poor reason. Because his second point has nothing to even do with Kush. Like seriously, read his reasons and tell me what you think. They make no sense for a town to base a vote on. On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: Let me just state the reasons that my vote is on Kush right now: 1) I think his explanation of the slip was poor. If he had given a good explanation, I might have believed him. 2) I've been thinking about who would benefit if the result is a no-lynch. I'm thinking mafia is likely to benefit the most from a no-lynch. Right now, I think that there's more than a 25 % chance that Kush is scum. Therefore, I'm voting for him. I'm not sure if any of these points are original. I'm having trouble keeping up with the thread, because I tend to get hanged up in details. 3. Again I wasn't posting to defend Kush, Looking at Corrosion's filter, his first post about Kush is a case against DP, and looks to be defending Kush. Post in question - + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote: So is everyone just going to drop their welcome posts and then afk? I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch. Than his next two posts about Kush are him "thinking Kush" and than "voting as implied in last post" + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 07:17 corrosion wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 05:50 Z-BosoN wrote: corrosion, some issues with your post. ... You're not seeing my points in the proper context. Now maybe you think my analysis is weak. I can understand that view. I haven't played in one of these before, so I'm not really good at seeing the difference between weak arguments and strong arguments. Some of the other posters in the thread encouraged new players to post, but maybe I should have waited awhile and tried to build a really solid case. Show nested quote + Who are you more inclined to vote on and why? I can't tell by the wishy-washy tone of your post I haven't made up mind yet, so I'll be voting tomorrow. I'm thinking Kush, but I'll browse the latest developments tomorrow and see if anything has changed by then. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 17:57 corrosion wrote: Good morning. I'm going to comment on a couple of things. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 10:59 DarthPunk wrote: Addressing a few things that stood out to me. Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. So yeah I went back through the thread to address this specifically. I was asked to post my previous mafia games. and then I did. And now that is some sort of attempt for me to use my meta to clear myself? Right. ... You're absolutely right. I see that you posted links to your previous games only a few minutes after Debears requested it. I missed this because I was just looking through your filter and didn't keep enough attention on the thread itself. My bad. I'm going to look at Stutter's case against Kush and other recent developments. For now, I'll vote as I implied in my last post. ##Vote Kushm4sta Than after he votes, he says - On September 29 2012 18:43 corrosion wrote: Right now, I don't think the case is strong at all so I actually think people should focus more on their own reads and trying to find the best lynching candidate. That took a while, any other questions? | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
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RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: + Show Spoiler + @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great But for a while now there is one post of boson's that has stuck out to me. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @Stutters I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here. I feel like that is the same type of post as debears made. Also had a little emergency this morning. False alarm though, so i'm here now. | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
On October 01 2012 05:56 Omniscient4983 wrote: Thoughts on night actions: Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote: LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order: Debears Djodref Alsn From my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end. What does everyone else think? Omni, you seem very sure of your prediction, and actually very detailed. Maybe a mafia trying to cover up after a bad night? At first you say you are guessing, but by your second paragraph you seem pretty sure of yourself. I'm pointing this out because there are many more possibilities as to what happened, and I think speculating on this a waste of time. Also this could be a way of sidetracking the discussion. As for what else could have happened - 1) Scum could have hit someone (DarthPunk or otherwise) and they were saved/jailed 2) A JK jailed the scum who took the shot. 3) Whoever got shot was a veteran 4) Scum didn't send in night actions (Not likely) That's why I think your "thoughts" are more mafia motivated. ##FOS Omniscient4983 | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
On October 01 2012 08:25 Omniscient4983 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 07:47 RemedySC wrote: On October 01 2012 05:56 Omniscient4983 wrote: Thoughts on night actions: On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote: LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order: Debears Djodref Alsn From my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end. What does everyone else think? Omni, you seem very sure of your prediction, and actually very detailed. Maybe a mafia trying to cover up after a bad night? At first you say you are guessing, but by your second paragraph you seem pretty sure of yourself. I'm pointing this out because there are many more possibilities as to what happened, and I think speculating on this a waste of time. Also this could be a way of sidetracking the discussion. As for what else could have happened - 1) Scum could have hit someone (DarthPunk or otherwise) and they were saved/jailed 2) A JK jailed the scum who took the shot. 3) Whoever got shot was a veteran 4) Scum didn't send in night actions (Not likely) That's why I think your "thoughts" are more mafia motivated. ##FOS Omniscient4983 If you're saved by a medic, don't you get a PM that states this? The reason I quoted Darth was because he stated that a medic saved him. Was this an assumption on his part? I took it as truth. Okay, after giving it some thought, I actually find it very likely that your prior post is genuine. It may not be the best subject in my opinion, but based on your quote of Darth I can see how you would believe (as either alignment) that he was actually saved by a medic. I still however don't like the subject of "Thought's on night actions". You were asking everyone else on their opinions of the night actions, when it is only speculation. There is no way to confirm anything right now, so I find it really sidetracks things. Also you point out three people, which out of the three you say there is a high likelihood of one being scum. So i'm going to ask, who is your top scum read? | ||
RemedySC
Canada176 Posts
@Corrosion Could you tell me what you think of this post from me earlier? On September 30 2012 08:32 RemedySC wrote: 3. Again I wasn't posting to defend Kush, Looking at Corrosion's filter, his first post about Kush is a case against DP, and looks to be defending Kush. Post in question - + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote: So is everyone just going to drop their welcome posts and then afk? I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch. Than his next two posts about Kush are him "thinking Kush" and than "voting as implied in last post" + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 07:17 corrosion wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 05:50 Z-BosoN wrote: corrosion, some issues with your post. ... You're not seeing my points in the proper context. Now maybe you think my analysis is weak. I can understand that view. I haven't played in one of these before, so I'm not really good at seeing the difference between weak arguments and strong arguments. Some of the other posters in the thread encouraged new players to post, but maybe I should have waited awhile and tried to build a really solid case. Show nested quote + Who are you more inclined to vote on and why? I can't tell by the wishy-washy tone of your post I haven't made up mind yet, so I'll be voting tomorrow. I'm thinking Kush, but I'll browse the latest developments tomorrow and see if anything has changed by then. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 17:57 corrosion wrote: Good morning. I'm going to comment on a couple of things. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 10:59 DarthPunk wrote: Addressing a few things that stood out to me. Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. So yeah I went back through the thread to address this specifically. I was asked to post my previous mafia games. and then I did. And now that is some sort of attempt for me to use my meta to clear myself? Right. ... You're absolutely right. I see that you posted links to your previous games only a few minutes after Debears requested it. I missed this because I was just looking through your filter and didn't keep enough attention on the thread itself. My bad. I'm going to look at Stutter's case against Kush and other recent developments. For now, I'll vote as I implied in my last post. ##Vote Kushm4sta Than after he votes, he says - Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 18:43 corrosion wrote: Right now, I don't think the case is strong at all so I actually think people should focus more on their own reads and trying to find the best lynching candidate. You didn't contribute any information about Kush, and voted on the premise that you were "thinking Kush". Shortly after you state that you don't think the case is strong at all. Could you elaborate more on that? On Omni I have a 60/40 Scum/Town read on him. Waiting for his reply to my post, and i'll go from there. | ||
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Another question. Could explain your town read on Corrosion? I want you to elaborate because the last mention of him in your posts is - On September 30 2012 09:10 Omniscient4983 wrote: @RemedySC Appreciate the response. I somewhat misinterpreted your goal in the post concerning Corrosion. Now that I look at it, the second reason for Corrosion's voting Kush is actually ridiculous. On a side note - are most people in this game asleep when we are able to post? Seems that way. Time differences | ||
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I'll give my thoughts on your case. It is very compelling. The timings are iffy, but that could make perfect sense as to why Kush acted how he did. I was kind of thinking that earlier, if his team was inactive (Lesrah + a lurker) he would be on his own and broke under the pressure. Your point makes better sense though me thinks. Also Alsn was the very last person to vote on Kush. Not much by itself, but his post indicated that Kush wasnt near his top scum read. Why make a vote on someone you don't believe is scum, and even defend. On Debears I have been very skeptical while reading the cases against him. Going to look more at it, but currently feel a bit indifferent. | ||
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On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote: + Show Spoiler + That said, I followed Tl Mafia LVII wherein there was a lot of discussion about lynching "trolly meta" players and I would like to take that one step further. Kush, while I realize that you have a posting style which by its nature is very confrontational and inflammatory, I feel that unless you actually provide some concrete analysis without using almost purely OMGUS argumentation that it is in town's best interest to just straight up lynch you right away. Simply put, unless your cases actually provide substance then I think you will just be a late game liability for town, mostly giving everyone a null read and potentially forcing people to make a town or scum read on you without having much of an idea what you are. So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content, just like I will not forgive anyone else for doing so either. Understand that I'm not singling you out as a target, I'm using your history as an example for what I consider scummy play. This is Alsn's first post of the game. He takes a very early stance on Kush's "trolly meta"; Stating that unless he provides a concrete analysis without OMGUS, that it is in the town's best interest to lynch him. He sums it up saying that he can forgive Kush on his style of posting, but won't forgive him for posting "shitty content". Well I think it was pretty obvious to what type of content Kush posted. On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote: + Show Spoiler + Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. In fact, I could go back to my initial posts to him in NMMXXV saying almost the exact same thing. As such, I think I have no choice but to cast a: FoS kushm4sta kush, in order for me to let up, I want you to stop it with your ridiculous knee-jerk play and actually point out why you think other people are scummy as opposed to why you yourself is so obviously town. While the following idiom is quite ironic in a forum game, actions speak louder than words and you defending yourself is just that, meaningless words. Start proving to everyone that you are concerned with finding scum instead of worrying about your silly streak. That being said, I think everyone else is jumping the gun here, kush is an extremely easy target to pick on, especially since he almost never seems to think before he posts. The scumslip that Darth and others pointed out can definitely be seen as damning. However, I am not inclined to agree with the following post from Darth: On September 28 2012 13:46 DarthPunk wrote:I am not flaming Kush. I am legitimately scum hunting. The contrast in this situation, to the one with shiao, are so stark that there is no point even bringing it up. You will know when I am flaming when you see it, and even then it is not really that big a scum tell. I can tell the difference between Scummy town and actual scum, and it is not 'illogical' to be able to do this. Kush right now is not scummy town. He has slipped HUGELY. He is conforming to his previous scum meta. Seriously... There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum. This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out. I can state for the record that unless kush shapes up considerably, I'm all in favour of lynching him. Simply because him playing like his normal self would be a liability for town later on due to his inclination to just defend himself over hunting scum. However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies. I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast. Here is his second post where he also casts his suspicion of Kush. He also says for him to let up he needs Kush to straighten out his play. Alsn also tells everyone they are jumping the gun on Kush. Wouldn't you want town to pressure people until they are either clearly scum or town? I don't think he that statement is pro town at all. I would like to here what Alsn has as a reply to the bolded part also. SDM pointed it out and I also like to here what your reasons were at the time. On September 29 2012 18:17 Alsn wrote: + Show Spoiler + First, I'd like to start things with stating so far D1 has pretty much lived up to my exact nightmare scenario that I speculated about when arguing with DP yesterday. Everyone is voting kush with only very little discussion about any other topic(mainly, the debears-boson exchange). Why would this be your nightmare scenario? Everyone voting for Kush? By this time Kush has posted all but one of his posts. He had not contributed to a scum hunt, made some very raging comments, and started to troll to his hearts content. Yet your very first post says you'll lynch him if he expresses this behavior. Now finally your vote. - On September 29 2012 21:15 Alsn wrote: + Show Spoiler + I've been doing some soul searching and I'm starting to agree that it's not worth it to try and push any other cases right now. Mostly because my entire premise was that I was thinking it to be unlikely for kush to be scum. I realise that after trying to put into words why I think that is so, I have nothing other than the fact that I "feel" him to be town, which is a really stupid reason for absolving him. I thought I could back it up by saying he's been pressured to hard, there's no way he's responsible for not scum hunting. But in the end, I can't find a logical reason to forgive him if I exclude my own gut feeling from the equation. I think now that my best option is to hold on to whatever small reads I have(because while I have some suspicions, I don't think they are rock solid) until after the lynch is over. Because at least then, we will have more information. So for now, although my gut is screaming at me, I'll commit to voting for kush, mostly because most of what I said about BosoN has returned somewhat satisfactory answers, I really don't like the way a lot of people got away with not basically posting anything at all(I'm looking at you, Djodref, corrosion, Omniscient, RemedySC). I think that's probably what irks me the most, the thing I was most hoping would not happen, did happen. ##Vote: kushm4sta You have this "feel" of him being town. After your initial statement about lynching him if he doesn't change his attitude, you say you don't want to lynch him based on a feel? Also the bolded part... How do you come to the conclusion that he isn't responsible for not scum hunting? You then go onto say you have some suspicions, but you don't want to go over them until the lynch is over? I think if you had any reservations for Kush as town, you would be bringing that up well before lynch time. Lastly you state that although your gut is screaming at you, you end up voting for Kush anyways. Is that because you don't want to be the only one not voting for Kush? You than mention Boson, and that it irks you that some people got away with posting. I don't really see how that fits into your vote at all. So far now ##Vote Alsn | ||
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On October 02 2012 21:19 Alsn wrote: Remedy, I find the timing of your post unfortunate, as I just explained that at the time I made that comment, I myself was only ready to lynch kush mostly for policy reasons. Given what information I had at the time, I don't find it so unreasonable that I was afraid at the time that if we kept pressuring only kush that there was a possibility of him self-lynching himself(just like happened now) but that he would actually flip town. Yeah, sorry i had the case prepared on my computer last night. I intended to post it then, but have to work 7am today. I basically woke up, edited, hit reply. At work now and reading what i missed. | ||
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On October 02 2012 21:34 Alsn wrote: If you don't mind, considering that your own scum hunting has consisted of only attacking people who were already suspicious, just who do you think are scum in the case I turn out to be town? In fact, I'd like RemedySC to respond to this question as well, since he has also only been making "safe" plays so far. I don't see any reason for why people would be excused from answering my questions at this point, especially considering that I'm probably about to be lynched. If your motives are pure, explain yourselves. I don't really like that question. I can only speculate in who my top reads would be if you turned up town. That is to say I don't think you're town right now. I'll answer who my other scum reads are though. Corrosion was up there. His posting doesn't strike me as a newbie town. His answers were too vague and lacked explanation. I would hope a newbie town would put more thought into his posts. He then left without addressing my concern, and now not sure what to make of it. Ill have to give Shady a chance before I make my verdict. Debears is up there, and after Darth's post I am seeing him to be more scummy than town. He would be my very next choice. Omni was Up there, but he has given my some reasonable answers. Still, I am not clearing him of being town yet. | ||
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On October 03 2012 0241 debears wrote: Also, my case on corrosion had distinctly different ideas from Z-Bo's Z-Bo wanted him to explain his accusations on Darth. I wanted him to explain his vote and his terrible reasoning which came way after, besides the other scummy stuff he had done. I guessed that DP was suspicious of corrosion because I was and the corrosion case had evidence. That's WIFOM I just want to point out that the had made that argument against Corrosion prior to your post. I also mine included those exact points. | ||
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