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Newbie Mini Mafia XXVII
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 16 2012 04:16 kushm4sta wrote: Not really a good attitude to have beacuse you are both probably going to be on the same team.. I thought it was obvious I was just joking. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 18 2012 10:48 kushm4sta wrote: I am so fucking sick of lurkers from last game. #1 They make the game shittier regardless of if they are scum. #2 They are 100% null reads all game long. You ask them a question and of course they aren't going to responsd because they post like 1 thing a day and dont even read the thread. #3 It gives scum safe people to accuse. Most of the time they aren't mafia but in the 2 games I played both of them had semi-lurker mafia. Lurker Policy: LYNCH ALL LURKERS, semilurkers at the top of the lynch list if we don't have a very strong scumread to bandwagon. Lurkers last game were super annoying and kind of ruined the game, although it can easily be argued they helped my scum team. Best straetgy is to go hard on lurkers because that forces people to post. Also, if you're a total newbie town and don't know what to do, staying active is your best way to help town (but don't post random nonsense). That's how the rest of us can clear you as town. If you're a total newbie and mostly lurk, it's a sign of you being an uncomfortable scum and I will personally make sure to lynch your ass. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 18 2012 11:00 thrawn2112 wrote: Yeah I agree, there's not much else to add other than that lurkers are assholes and they are going to lurk whether there is strong support of a lurker lynch policy or not... especially in these newbie games. So on to more important matters, here's an idea: last person in the thread gets lynched discuss? Is this question serious? | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On September 18 2012 11:18 kushm4sta wrote: Terrible idea? Since we prob have liek 3 different time zones. Biggest lurker gets lynched is a better plan but still not that great. A lot of noobs are pretty lost about what to do day 1. Here are my suggestions for discussion topics: 1 discuss lurker policy. I know you are bored with it or whatever, thrawn, but for peopel to say how they feel about lurkers and if they want to lynch them or let them lurk (both are viable strategies imo) gives us a baseline for FOSing people that go back on their lurker policy. Like what if a scum says lynch all lurkers, then one of the scumbuddies turns out to be the biggest lurker. That puts him in a bad position that he could avoid without lurker policy discussion. 2 I think we should discuss a plan for how to spend time. Here is my proposed plan: Freely making cases against anyone you think is scum in the first 24 hours of the day, then focusing on a couple of the biggest bandwagons in the second 24 hours. Do you like this plan or do you have a better one? I would a more systematic scumhunt this game though. 3 Give an introduction of yourself. How experienced are you? Are you a total noob or have you obsed some games? Very important IMO is will you be around for lynch time? That's 9 pm normal time btw if you are new. How active do you plan on being. Honestly I think once a day is okay IF your posts are good. An intro for myself is coming. 1. We put pressure on lurkers and if nothing better comes up, we lynch the most suspicious one. We don't need a more detailed policy than that and further discussion will just derail the thread. 2. I will push the most scummy cases I can find, I suggest others to do the same. When it's clear we got a few other wagons rolling and it's clear a new one would just derail the discussion, you can wait with your case to later. 3. I will make a survey for this. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
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1. Will you be around for lynch time? 2. How active do you plan on being? 3. How many games have you obsed? 4. Is this your first game playing? 5. If not, how many games have you played? 6. Is this your first time playing as scum? | ||
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On September 18 2012 12:36 thrawn2112 wrote: So you agree with his point about lurkers. There isn't much room for argument when it comes down to the reasoning behind lurker policy, there is no sane player that will say "lurkers are pro-town." So him having that anti-lurker opinion is not anything that would be a strong tell in either the town or mafia direction. He would have it as town, and he would "pretend" to have it as mafia. I don't see his post as anything indicative of him as scum trying to blend in by saying normal things. He did give a reasonable response to my post... but kush I'd like to ask you, how would you feel about specifically me only posting once per cycle? A good policy, however, is to not answer questions intended for someone else. Whether accusations are valid or not they may induce interesting reactions, so please stop defending other players. | ||
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On September 18 2012 15:37 thrawn2112 wrote: Ok sonic this is even scummier than your "hey everyone should be making lists" tactics in XXVI. Some of those questions (1 and 2) you cant reasonably expect people to give solid/infallible predictions about, or at least not predictions accurate enough for you to lynch them later based on a discrepency between the prediction and their actual activity level, and the other questions you don't need people to answer them in order to get the information you want. 6 is just silly. I don't see the point at all of that survey other than to appear useful which imo it isn't.. and that's the same thing you were doing with the lists in xxvi. It was a joke (and most questions are based on kush's post). I'm glad it gets some reactions though because we need this thread to move past the "omg what abuot dem lurkes" posts. And it seems like you didn't follow XXVI very closely (I can expand on that if you find it relevant to this thread). Back to my question to you: | ||
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On September 18 2012 16:07 thrawn2112 wrote: stop telling me what to do I didn't answer a question that wasn't directed at me. I was participating in the current discussion. You were answering accusations towards Kush. You don't see why that is a bad idea? On September 18 2012 16:07 thrawn2112 wrote: And no I don't want you to explain what happened during xxvi because unlike you claimed, I was paying attention that game because I played in it lol. You were onbaord with the list idea, in fact I think you were the one who suggested it in the first place. Then I immediately pointed out was a bad idea and something that scum could use to blend in without having to commit to reads, and hey, surprise, you ended up flipping scum. Now you are here in a new game, once again suggesting some useless idea that will do nothing but spam up the thread with stuff that's almost impossible to base reads off of. You want to accuse me, but you still don't want me to explain? You're not giving my argument a fair representation. I still think lists is a good idea if they're limited to your ~3 top suspects AND include your reasoning. That way it's easy to follow a player's thought process through the thread wrt to his key reads (instead of reads being blended into a wall of text, hi there Jacob). That's what I suggested. And you're suggesting I was hiding behind lists. I never made any long ass lists, which a lot of other players did. Again, we don't need a list discussion. Just post your suspects along with your reasoning in any way you like. But make sure to make those posts clear. Yep. [/QUOTE] So this was serious? It's a mind numbingly stupid idea. Unless you're scum and suggest it for an easy d1 town lynch. It's very easy to coordinate your scum team not to be the last one in the thread and you get away with an easy lynch. Since you don't seem mind numbingly stupid and it was a serious idea, it's scummy. | ||
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On September 18 2012 16:24 rethos wrote: @Sonic Death Monkey do you have past games in which you have been town? Could you link me? 2 or 3 would be great. I've played only one game on TL (scum). I've only played one other game, about 3 years ago (also scum). | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
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On September 18 2012 17:00 thrawn2112 wrote: I can see how it is bad to answer questions but I'm just not liking how much you like to tell people exactly what to do. Being "thread-cop" bascially. It's not necessarily scummy I just don't like it lol. If you think it's annoying that I point out anti-town behaviour I think you just need to get used to it. On September 18 2012 17:00 thrawn2112 wrote: All I wanna say about lists/survey is this: you suggested list making in xxvi and I thought it was a scummy idea and you ended up being scum that game. Now you are suggesting another idea that I think is scummy and to me it's very similar to the xxvi situation. If the 6th question didn't make it clear it wasn't a completely serious survey I don't know what to tell you. On September 18 2012 17:00 thrawn2112 wrote: Yeah it was a serious question and no of course I don't think it's a good idea. I was trying to move the discussion past the mostly useless lurker policy talk circlejerk while providing easy bait for scum to jump at. I kinda failed in the first aspect but you seem to have jumped at the bait stronger than anyone else. fos sonic Why would scum in particular jump at you? It was a stupid post and you got your reactions. Everyone seems to think it's stupid, what's your next step? Please explain. Other than that you're just copying my answer as to why I made my survey post. It's also funny how you pose a stupid question about lurking in order to bring the discussion past lurking. Explain how that was supposed to work. Seems to me it's only going to bring more stupid discussions about lurking, which is exactly what happened. | ||
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On September 18 2012 20:17 rethos wrote: People what are your opinions on the case against SDM? We need to get some discussions going. From the lack of activity i guess this might be night-time for US but i am sure we have other people except me that are not from US. My opinion: from looking on SDM's filter in the last game he seems to like doing everything organized. That is ofcourse used by him as scum to make it like he's contributing. It does seem though to be a different type of "lists". I do agree that the survey is preatty much useless even though i answered it just to at least keep some conversation going. It does depend on the reason why SDM made the survey in the first place. I have multiple answers in mind for this and some are scummy some are not (in my opinion). I will ofcourse not discolse them untill he answers the question. @SDM what was your reason / thought process on creating the said survey? As for thrawn2112 idea that SDM jumped too hard on his proposal, that seems a bit of a weak point to me seing that i also was jumping on it but a bit more tactful by asking you first to clarify it. It just looks like too weird an idea to just leave it alone. We need to not let the game die, please people post some thoughts. It was a joke inspired by this: + Show Spoiler + Aside from it being a joke and getting the discussion moving, we also gain some information. Knowing how many will be around for EODs is useful. Not for determining who to lynch as implied by thrawn, but for knowing how many votes will be permanent ahead of time. Getting to know the experience of players will also change how I will view some responses. Sure, I could research everyone's maffia history on TL, but I don't really have the time for that. Now I didn't really make the post because I thought this information was super important, I just made a joke of the series of question in Kush's post (he basically posed all the same questions). | ||
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On September 18 2012 20:59 JacobStrangelove wrote: Ok I have time for a quick post. *facepalm* ok kush... the only reason you would get night killed is if you contribute to the thread in a meaningful way. Being scared of an Nk will only make you not contribute meaningfully and end up useless. There isn’t much by way of reads to go on yet but because of what’s happened I can list the top suspicions I have. Sonic is here because he is a freaking genius and the whole list thing is always a strange topic. I also can’t help but notice he side mentions me in his post in reply to thrawn. While I haven’t seen your town meta I notice you did this all of last game (side mentioning people and not making it obvious you were going at them) and ended up scum. On the flip side (yes I am doing this again) I doubt you would draw this much attention to yourself early considering what happened last game concerning lists. Also the survey while I did it was mostly pointless... unless it was purely designed to trap scum with that last question. (Which while it would be hilarious if it worked is unlikely) Thrawn, Lynch the last person in the thread are you serious? That’s like.... stupid.... even as a way to encourage discussion the likelihood if hitting scum in that scenario would be really low compared to finding people based on reads or even inactivity. It would only create discussion that would be as effective as just picking a random person. As for Drazak and Kush I am still unsure. They OMGUS each other so much it’s insane. (Almost as much as I do...) Admittedly it could be an attempt by kush to stir up trouble so I will have to watch these two closely. (Also I don’t think drazak was a trash town last game I mostly thought he was town until he cracked under pressure) Everyone else I am meh on at the moment. Not enough to go on as most don’t have a meta or have said anything of use. Me mentioning you here had nothing to do with this game, it was wrt your play especially in the first part of last game. | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
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On September 18 2012 23:37 debears wrote: First of all, kush already requested that information. + Show Spoiler + kushm4sta United States. September 18 2012 11:18. Posts 302 PM Profile Quote # filter On September 18 2012 11:00 thrawn2112 wrote: Yeah I agree, there's not much else to add other than that lurkers are assholes and they are going to lurk whether there is strong support of a lurker lynch policy or not... especially in these newbie games. So on to more important matters, here's an idea: last person in the thread gets lynched discuss? Terrible idea? Since we prob have liek 3 different time zones. Biggest lurker gets lynched is a better plan but still not that great. A lot of noobs are pretty lost about what to do day 1. Here are my suggestions for discussion topics: 1 discuss lurker policy. I know you are bored with it or whatever, thrawn, but for peopel to say how they feel about lurkers and if they want to lynch them or let them lurk (both are viable strategies imo) gives us a baseline for FOSing people that go back on their lurker policy. Like what if a scum says lynch all lurkers, then one of the scumbuddies turns out to be the biggest lurker. That puts him in a bad position that he could avoid without lurker policy discussion. 2 I think we should discuss a plan for how to spend time. Here is my proposed plan: Freely making cases against anyone you think is scum in the first 24 hours of the day, then focusing on a couple of the biggest bandwagons in the second 24 hours. Do you like this plan or do you have a better one? I would a more systematic scumhunt this game though. 3 Give an introduction of yourself. How experienced are you? Are you a total noob or have you obsed some games? Very important IMO is will you be around for lynch time? That's 9 pm normal time btw if you are new. How active do you plan on being. Honestly I think once a day is okay IF your posts are good. + Show Spoiler + I didn't really make the post because I thought this information was super important, I just made a joke of the series of question in Kush's post (he basically posed all the same questions). Here you state yourself that the post was basically worthless. It accomplished the same thing kush's questions did. It's repetition. Yes. This is just rehashing what I stated in my last post. It was mostly just a joke and it was meant to be taken as a joke. On September 18 2012 23:37 debears wrote: The list did generate some discussion, as did thrawn's lynch the last poster idea by the way Oddly, you want to accuse thrawn for posting something stupid that started discussion, yet you go on and do the same. FOS Sonic This is kind of a valid question. My first response to thrawn's post was: The reason I asked was because it was so stupid I thought it probably wasn't*. If it was serious however, I wanted him to confirm it before I attacked it, because otherwise he could've said "it was obviously not serious I just wanted to get the thread moving". Now he claims the question was serious but the idea was not, which I find kind of weird, but I guess my first question could've been more specific. I also find it weird that he claims attacking his stupid question would be a scum trait. To me it seems like it's a serious breakdown in logic so I'd want him to explain his reasoning. *I expected most people to have the same reactions to my survey post, in my mind it was an obvious joke | ||
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On September 18 2012 22:42 debears wrote: To me, thrawn is giving a town read at this point. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + thrawn2112 Yeah I agree, there's not much else to add other than that lurkers are assholes and they are going to lurk whether there is strong support of a lurker lynch policy or not... especially in these newbie games. So on to more important matters, here's an idea: last person in the thread gets lynched A couple of you (SDM for instance) are concentrating at how stupid an idea lynching the last person is. Let's look at motivations for this: 1) Thrawn as town - prevent the lurker discussion from going overboard. Present an idea that should provoke an "you're an idiot" response from town members (with a long shot of some mafia jumping on him about the idea). 2) Thrawn as mafia - Put up an idea that a thinking town would take seriously, make himself look suspcicious. Possibly lynch the most inactive player if it works. The idea has far superior town motives. remember that Thrawn didn't linger on the idea. He dropped it after the responses were pretty clear on it. SDM did + Show Spoiler + Sonic Death Monkey Sweden. September 18 2012 15:12. Is this question serious? I think Thrawn has sufficiently answered the question. I also believe that thrawn's defense of kush earlier was not indicative of scum. + Show Spoiler + thrawn2112 United States. September 18 2012 12:36. Posts 1077 So him having that anti-lurker opinion is not anything that would be a strong tell in either the town or mafia direction The argument that Remedy was more of a shot in the dark, seeing as all of us hate lurkers. Thrawn dismissed a possibly dumb argument before a giant flame war started (kush did give warning earlier). I also support thrawn's logic with drazak: + Show Spoiler + thrawn2112 United States. September 18 2012 14:45. Posts 1077 On September 18 2012 13:49 drazak wrote: I'm already accused of being trashy town? Really Kush? Man, you're prejudiced right off the bat. I know you can post while you're at work and stuff, but I can't post in class and I can't post when I'm tutoring people. If you'd like I can sleep-post and it'll be really bad. Sorry if my posts last game weren't up to your posting standard kush. For the record, I might not post consistently at different times, and maybe I'll push agressively against someone, my reasons will usually be good. I'd ask that people use their own logic after reading my posts, look at the evidence provided and use your logic. Last game we had a lot of people not thinking for themselves, I'll be going to bed soon so don't expect another post from me. I'll probably post in the morning, and I think I'll post before tutoring, but I don't think I'll be posting until maybe this time tomorrow again after that. My thoughts while reading this: "man this guy is going out of his way to defend himself when there's no need to" Thrawn is currently not timid about calling people out within reason. To add to the argument, drazak's post also sounds indecisive. might, maybe, probably, think. While that alone is not anywhere near enough to condemn someone, it does raise suspicion on drazak. I think thrawn is town. Anyone with evidence pointing otherwise, please present. Your hardcore defense of thrawn is suspicious and it seems to lack logic. Making a strong town read, especially this early on, is really stupid and anti-town because it makes this person more comfortable, whereas asking more questions will induce more information (information is always good, as it can be used for scum and town reading). You're going thru all thrawn's posts and try to rationalize them from a town perspective. Having played as scum in my last two games and now experiencing the confusion that is townie, this looks like someone having full information. I can't believe someone without extra information would be willing to actually draw this conclusion based on a handful of early d1 posts. Cockriding one of the most respected player in the field (especially if thrawn = town) is a very convenient scum strategy, as it makes you less likely to be suspected and is an easy way to blend in. On September 18 2012 22:42 debears wrote: A couple of you (SDM for instance) are concentrating at how stupid an idea lynching the last person is. Let's look at motivations for this: 1) Thrawn as town - prevent the lurker discussion from going overboard. Present an idea that should provoke an "you're an idiot" response from town members (with a long shot of some mafia jumping on him about the idea). 2) Thrawn as mafia - Put up an idea that a thinking town would take seriously, make himself look suspcicious. Possibly lynch the most inactive player if it works. The idea has far superior town motives. About 1), how is asking a question about lurking going to prevent lurker discussions? How is people calling him an idiot going to gain information? About 2), the same argument can be made about my post, but I'm not going to make it because it's not very reliable. On September 18 2012 22:42 debears wrote: I think Thrawn has sufficiently answered the question. He said that it was bait for scum. I don't get how that "argument" convinced you. On September 18 2012 22:42 debears wrote: I also believe that thrawn's defense of kush earlier was not indicative of scum. + Show Spoiler + thrawn2112 United States. September 18 2012 12:36. Posts 1077 So him having that anti-lurker opinion is not anything that would be a strong tell in either the town or mafia direction The argument that Remedy was more of a shot in the dark, seeing as all of us hate lurkers. Thrawn dismissed a possibly dumb argument before a giant flame war started (kush did give warning earlier). Do you think stifling discussion and questionings is good for town? Shots in the dark is what gets this game going d1. Unless someone stumbles into the thread with a total scum slip, that's all we got and that's from where we need to build. On September 18 2012 22:42 debears wrote: I also support thrawn's logic with drazak: + Show Spoiler + thrawn2112 United States. September 18 2012 14:45. Posts 1077 On September 18 2012 13:49 drazak wrote: I'm already accused of being trashy town? Really Kush? Man, you're prejudiced right off the bat. I know you can post while you're at work and stuff, but I can't post in class and I can't post when I'm tutoring people. If you'd like I can sleep-post and it'll be really bad. Sorry if my posts last game weren't up to your posting standard kush. For the record, I might not post consistently at different times, and maybe I'll push agressively against someone, my reasons will usually be good. I'd ask that people use their own logic after reading my posts, look at the evidence provided and use your logic. Last game we had a lot of people not thinking for themselves, I'll be going to bed soon so don't expect another post from me. I'll probably post in the morning, and I think I'll post before tutoring, but I don't think I'll be posting until maybe this time tomorrow again after that. My thoughts while reading this: "man this guy is going out of his way to defend himself when there's no need to" Thrawn is currently not timid about calling people out within reason. To add to the argument, drazak's post also sounds indecisive. might, maybe, probably, think. While that alone is not anywhere near enough to condemn someone, it does raise suspicion on drazak. Drazak comes across as overly defensive, true. I'll await for his answers before posting any more thoughts atm. On September 18 2012 22:42 debears wrote: I think thrawn is town. Anyone with evidence pointing otherwise, please present. No kidding. The question is why you'd want to make such a lengthy town defense this early. In what way do you think this will benefit town? | ||
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Sonic Death Monkey
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On September 19 2012 00:44 debears wrote: To me, you are cherrypicking the wording and making it a bigger deal than it is. His intention was to gauge others' reactions to the post for a possible scum lead. Although the idea of actually lynching the last person is stupid, the idea of looking at everyone's reactions to the last poster lynch has some town merit. I'm questioning his motives. In the last game thrawn seemed like logical poster and his reasonings here makes no sense to me. This game isn't about telling eachother about how awesome they are, it's about pushing for information. Even IF something thrawn has said makes me think he might be town (not saying that he has), that's not what I'm going to bring up at this point. It's counter productive. On September 19 2012 00:44 debears wrote: Are you talking about me or thrawn here? Thrawn. On September 19 2012 00:44 debears wrote: This explanation confirmed what I thought he was doing in the first place. As you said, it seemed like a breakdown in logic to you, Sonic. I can see why since it wasn't an in depth look. However, if you look at the motivations from a townie and mafia perspective, it doesn't make sense as a mafia post. There's little reward for the risk as mafia. Here's what I showed earlier. 1) Thrawn as town - prevent the lurker discussion from going overboard. Present an idea that should provoke an "you're an idiot" response from town members (with a long shot of some mafia jumping on him about the idea). 2) Thrawn as mafia - Put up an idea that a thinking town would "not" take seriously, make himself look suspcicious. Possibly lynch the most inactive player if it works. btw i added in not in quotations. typo on my part from earlier. Addressed in my last post. | ||
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On September 19 2012 02:02 thrawn2112 wrote: Sonic the reason why I don't buy that your survey was you as town making a joke is becuase of the line "not answering will make you look scummy." That looks like you were seriously expecting a response from everyone and that you didn't want the survey to be taken lightly. I still don't get how the 6th question doesn't make it totally obvious. I'll concede that the "not answering will make you look scummy" risks making it look serious, at least in a newbie game where lots of people are confused and totally don't want look scummy (regardless of allignment). On September 19 2012 02:02 thrawn2112 wrote: It's been pointed out that we are kinda doing the same thing (accusing each other because of us presenting bad ideas for town to respond to) however the situations aren't that similar. You yourself have pointed out that my idea was so extremly dumb that it couldn't have been a genuine question. I never said that. I thought it was unlikely to be genuine. However, if it was genuine it would've been scummy, especially coming from a player I percieve to be logical. That's why I asked the probing question, which should've been made a bit more specific because it kind of left the definition of a "serious question" to be subjective. On September 19 2012 02:02 thrawn2112 wrote: My explanation of that question is that it was scum bait... do you really think that it's more likely that I threw it out as scum trying to get town to agree to it? And your survey as I've already said didn't look like a joke and it fit your past scum actions of presenting fluffly ideas for town to follow so you could appear like a useful townie. I'm pretty sure I stated in the aftermath to XXVI that my maffia game is purely based on posting stuff I would've posted as town. All suggestions on lists and actions wrt the vigilante was suggestions I would've made as town. You may still disagree with me on whether my suggestions were good, but my intent behind those posts wasn't scummy. On September 19 2012 02:02 thrawn2112 wrote: However seeing the lengths you went to to use that post against me, when it was obviously a really dumb idea regardless of my alignment, I still think you were attacking me with scum motives. I don't really agree with your approach. I wanted to pressure you on the off chance it was serious. Pressuring you gave me the explanation that it was "scum bait", which still doesn't make sense to me. Pressuring someone can give you more information that might be more useful than the original one. And I still want you to explained your rationale behind your post being "scum bait". | ||
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