EPTTL Mafia LVII
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Looking forward to this game. XXIV was quite the experience, and hope this one gets as fun. I do hope I can manage this game without screwing up RL as much though =) | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone. A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker. Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Um... this: " My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not" You are saying that he tries to discredit you ---> you think he tried to discredit you ---> if he tried to discredit you, you are saying he wanted to do this and is being deliberately disruptive. Why not just straight answer the question without adding another one? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote: Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? Ah, I see, thanks  No, I haven't. So far I have only played in newbie xxiv, as scum. I've skimmed through the posts, and I'm still contemplating the implication of these new roles, and trying to figure out if it makes sense for noisy neighbors to claim. There are a lot of parallel discussions going on, but right now the filter I dislike the most is Sloosh's. Instead of attempting to make cases, he keeps asking questions and doesn't attempt to read peoples posts. 11/14 of his posts have questions, and I think this adds more confusion than it answers them. ##vote slOosh | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On September 04 2012 10:13 Hapahauli wrote: This is a scumread... really? Reads the exact opposite to me. I would agree with you if these questions were to provoke discussion. Except that some of his questions: "Do you think I'm scum by my first post?" "Where did I do that?" "What makes you think I think that?" Seem like avoidable questions that can be answered just reading. Instead of reading thoroughly, he simply keeps asking questions and doesn't move the discussion forward. Seems like an easy way to look town to me. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
@Darthpunk Unjustified accusations won't get us anywhere. If you are going to say it was retarded, say why. @Hapa You described a fine line between: -> Picking fights for the sake of picking fights -> Picking fights for the sake of trying to start conversations You defended sloosh based on him trying to start conversations. Can you be more specific on what is the difference between these two, for clarity?? @slOosh Very well, seems reasonable. Thanks for clearing that up. What is your take on Darthpunk? ##Unvote | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On September 04 2012 11:03 goodkarma wrote: Hey all A couple general observations for what I've just read: -I don't follow some of the voting that's already taken place in this thread. I don't get why some of us feel the need to vote for each other this early with little to no information to back a vote up. Imho, we should be working to establish a strong, pro-town atmosphere just as much as we are to find a lynch candidate for today. -I remember Hapa saying this once before: lynching one of the most vocal members day one is typically not the best idea. Looking back at how NMM XXIV turned out (Shady's lynch), others here should agree with me that there's at least some evidence to support this. Town loses so much more from a mislynch of a vocal town than of a semi-lurker, and, at least in my experience, you're much more likely to lynch a town than a scum when you target the most vocal day one player. I'm not going to assume that sloosh is town at this point, but the effort he's taken to pressure others with his posts is definitely conducive towards a pro-town atmosphere. Along those lines, I feel that Z-Boson's early vote on sloosh could very well be scum motivated. I disagree that sloosh's discussion is unhelpful. Maybe scum or town could pressure people like sloosh has, but he's pushing for more information so he's not stuck making a weak case against others, as Z-Boson has with sloosh: ##FoS: Z-Boson Howdy gk There are good ways to push information, and bad ways. By the way that almost ALL his posts were questions and the fact that some of them could easily have been avoided, I interpreted them as adding confusion rather than removing it. Thus, I pressured him to respond to this and was satisfied with his reply. The reason for the vote this early is evidently to force answers, just as your FOS did with me  | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
@Hapa The purpose is just because I don't see the difference between the two. Me picking fights with someone implies that I don't agree with them or that I find something suspicious and am attacking them for it. I can only presume you mean the line between "picking fights with no good reason" and "picking fights with good reason", in which case I don't think it is a strong scum tell, granted that a bad player will also apparently pick fights without good reason. Meanwhile We have a player with one bad post and nothing more to add: On September 04 2012 07:54 Ottoxlol wrote: BM is my top scumread, he said just before day post and we havent heard from him since. Are you going to bother answering any of BWexe's questions against you or was this just your anti-modkill ticket? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On September 04 2012 11:31 BlackMamba24 wrote: Let me tell you guys what's happening - townies are having really dumb arguments and scum are lurking Oh - odds are scum are definitely lurking. As I proposed, I think we should discuss a policy lynch specifically on people with crap posts who disappear, such as Oxliolwhatshisname, for example. If you are saying that we are making really dumb arguments, would you mind making better ones? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
(...) What's with the vote for BloodyCobbler? He's pretty much a lurker at this point, but you're voting him for non-policy reasons... This feels like a scum getting behind a safe lurker lynch vote, at least at the time you wrote it (it just came to my attention as I'm about to post this that another page of postings have taken place, and cobbler has just made another post...)... My guess is this is a pressure vote, but I would appreciate a bit more of an explanation if you could provide it. Wait what? He's a one-liner semi-lurker who answers in riddles and you are ok with that and is defensive on him? Tell us why you think that not answering the godamn question straight-up of why he is so sure of the whole miller deal is pro-town? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Also, the discussion up to now is going nowhere. BC has made it a point to say that he knows something we don't, but won't clarify. If he did indeed learn something game changing as that, I presume Palmar would have announced it in this thread. So, he's directed the whole discussion at him, and has disappeared. This is all but productive.. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
First of all, this post is wrong: You are right, his fakeclaim doesn't prove he is mafia on its own. However, HIM ASKING FOR CLAIMS DOES. Why would a townie fakeclaim and attempt to get all blues to claim ? No townie day 1 should ever be this fuckign stupid. Even if he gets caught as mafia (as I have caught him) had anyone or if anyone proceeds to claim and a bunch of retard blues out themselves mafia is instantly ahead. IIRC, he asked for people with the same role - noisy neighbor - to claim, not blues. BC is making this main assumption: No miller/neighbor is self aware in any game ever except odd pyp/ptp like setups as it defeats the purpose of the role. This game holds true to the same rule as normal games for the mechanic. To put it simply, this is the main argument going on: how can he know he is a noisy neighbor if they are unaware?. Am I correct? You have made it clear that you are 100% sure that this game does not include self-aware millers. As a normal person, one could not make this assumption, as it would be statistical. Say 90% of games don't include self-aware millers. I have read the OP, and nowhere does it say that millers aren't self-aware, so you must have other reasons to know this, because no matter what, you say it is not an assumption. The fact that you keep insisting would be ridiculous if you weren't indeed 100% certain, because, like sloosh said, you would most likely be lynched if he showed up town, making it a double town loss. Did I get anything wrong here? If not, ##Vote Mattchew | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On September 05 2012 10:18 BlackMamba24 wrote: Z-BoSoN hasn't posted since heaping suspicion on BC and from what I recall of at least the Death Note Obs QT he is quite attentive and active on TL, reading and updating himself a lot. I'm here. Still catching up, lots of posts to go over. Will exercise and post soon. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Oxttoliol First of all, Ox is still reluctant to conclude that Mattchew is most likely scum. He reads poorly, and spent the last 8 pages annoying us with this and trading slaps with Toad, and in my point of view, this is completely counter-productive. He has not made any other points or comments regarding anything else, at all. I don't know why he is so insistent on this, but I am not willing to dismiss him as a concerned townie rather than scum just because he is defending a probable scum. He reminds me a lot of SolarSail in his two previous games. Milton On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote: Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? Like Ox, his focus has just been nagging at hapa all game, based on a soft-defending argument that's hardly conclusive. However, I don't agree with hapa that that's a strong indicative of scum, it looks more to me like an attempt to make a case. Now that he has finally backed off, he can surely show us that he's worried about scumhunting and will present us with other concerns. goodkarma Holy godamn inconsistency. Lord, I just have to extract simple quotes to show just how contradictory you are: I remember Hapa saying this once before: lynching one of the most vocal members day one is typically not the best idea. ##FoS: BlackMamba And your latest post is so full of crap.... On September 05 2012 09:27 goodkarma wrote: I would agree with Hapa that Mattchew is almost a 100% scum read. He's done a good job of highlighting why. But there is more than one scum. We need to move past Mattchew onto pressuring other people. A scum lynch day one puts us in an excellent position going forward. Looking at others' filters I couldn't help but notice that there still are a considerable number of people that need to participate more to help ensure a strong pro-town environment going into day 2. Grush is at modkill-threshold. I don't expect he's going to be around all that much longer. Until he makes his first post, I consider any time spent pressuring him as a waste. On the other hand, Gravan, Lvdr, austinmc, maverick, ShadySands, and ShioPi all stand out to me as semi-lurkers. Some of them seem to have legitimate reasons (such as ShadySands), but that doesn't mean they aren't scum with legitimate reasons. As for things that have stood out to me: -Obviously, Ottoxlol made a rather out of place vote after it was apparent Mattchew was lying. I don't feel this is a scum tell, as from a scum perspective Mattchew is pretty much "confirmed scum" at this point. Scum would be dumb to not bus him. It doesn't guarantee he's innocent, but it feels like his vote is too out of place to have been made by scum. -BlackMamba's early vote against Cobbler still stands out to me. Cobbler started the initiative to get Mattchew lynched, convincing me that he's "confirmed town." I just don't see any scenario where Cobbler as scum aggressively buses his partner day one. Yet BlackMamba voted him with little reason, then turned around and tacked on more of an explanation a little later. BlackMamba's play here makes sense from a scum perspective, as he could have been trying to avert attention away from Mattchew. Also, he isn't transparent with his reads. As town, I see no reason why he'd withhold them, as he does here: I don't understand why it is that he can't share reads on sloosh and toadstern if he has them. Refusing to be transparent does not help town. ##FoS: BlackMamba I look forward to hearing BlackMamba's reply, especially regarding his reads on sloosh and toadstern that he refused to share. Grush has made a few posts. Lvdr, on the other hand, hasn't posted at all! Also, Hapa didn't make the case - Sloosh did. You are also basically attacking BM because he attacks cobbler and that he's not giving us his sloosh/toad reads. Had you actually been reading, this is because there was a confusion regarding noisy neighbors' self-awareness, and it wasn't with "little reason", as far as I remember, he explained why he attacked BC. Also, if someone doesn't give a read you ask, then he is scum? There are many better ways to find scum than this. Granted he's actually posting three times as much as you AND the fact that you said you disagree on going after active townies, your post has been quite suspicious. You demonstrate a lack of reading and a lack of consistency. Rewin + Gravan ENOUGH about mattchew. We don't need anymore people saying why they think it's ok to lynch him. Can you not find a better way to participate? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
He has made what I perceive as a few "scumslips," but I try to focus on scum motivation rather than on slips as "scumslips" are a good way to get town mislynched (as both scum and town make them) whereas if you can pin scum motivation on someone you're much more likely to lynch the right guy. I don't see scum motivation behind his play right now. Care to elaborate? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Why do you still think he might be scum? Don't you think this will depend on the Mattchew lynch? | ||
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Z-BosoN
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
What can we conclude if he flips scum or town? In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch? My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum. If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched. Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game. @Shiaopi Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? | ||
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