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Dwarf Fortress Mini Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 05 2012 11:33 GMT
#23
/in
and I will not be banned in the first game Bluelightz is hosting
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 06 2012 20:40 GMT
#84
Will the deadline stay at 17:00 CEST as it is in the OP?
Great to have it at such an easy time for EU
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 15:08 GMT
#105
Well well, let's get started!
Skip policytalking, we all know lurkers suck, you should not lie etc. etc. LiquidTomb's fallen demand justice, so let's go hammer some goblins.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 15:29 GMT
#107
hahaha, well that's fair enough I guess.
If you want to have a long version of my policythoughts, here it comes.
DO NOT LURK, or I will find a way to kick you in the butt.
LIES DO NOT HELP (at least in 99% of cases) and therefore don't even think about it

Since it's just us two right now, what about your preferences?
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 15:34 GMT
#109
Laziness? Blasphemous! What has happened to the idea of our fortunes rising and falling together?
Back in all seriousness I am not too fond of doing too much policytalk either hence my first post. Will be some time until US gets to the thread I guess.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 15:51 GMT
#114
@scib:

I can agree with your thoughts about the roleclaims, but I have a question about the 1+ Lynches.
In your 2nd example you say that we can get an extralynch off if we lynch 2 instead of 1 at 6 vs 1
wouldn't it end still in 2 cycles as the night following a double mislynch would be 4-1. with the subsequent nighthit it gets to 3-1 and another mislynch ends the game as it will be 1-1 after the NK.
Just my maths being wrong or an oversight from your side?

LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 15:55 GMT
#118
EBWOP:

Just saw I got ninja'ed:
On August 08 2012 00:46 Forumite wrote:
I think ShiaoPi is a Goblin

What´s the point of watcher and tracker? DT is easy, check someone you think is scum. Watcher and Tracker just seem like weaker versions of a DT, with many false positive results. Are there any advantages?

Do Scum decide on their own who among them carries out the nightkill?


What makes you think so?

Watcher/Tracker are probably weaker than DT. Speculating on them being in the possible setups does not get us far though imo. Maybe for balance purposes but as marv points out the watcher at least has 2 things to watch.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 15:58 GMT
#120
Ah so another doublelynch instead of a single one. Makes sense now.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 16:12 GMT
#125
Well, I understand if you understand me not taking it serious at all then.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 20:39 GMT
#146
@HiroPro:
Seeing as you seem to want a tracker to claim at some point, how do you plan to confirm him (like an innocent child would be)? I don't think we would get mod-confirmation for a tracker and therefore scum could fakeclaim just as well. Kind of defeats the entire purpose you had when you try to confirm a townie via claiming.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 20:40 GMT
#147
EBWOP:
@prphlz:
If you like to listen to Forumite, I am apparently
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 20:54 GMT
#149
So your scenario would not differ much from a standard claim and therefore it should be examined and then judged based on the situation and not just accepted (like child claim would be), would be too easy for scum then.
Too bad I thought you found a way to circumvent the gamerules to modconfirm a tracker
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:21 GMT
#155
But stilll there is no need for him to claim. Just with his presence it would let our doc work much easier as scum cannot do too many RB's with his potential check. Do not see the need to lynch both claimers, just evaluate on the claims independently,I dislike both options , whether it is giving it a freepass or lynching.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:27 GMT
#160
On August 05 2012 16:59 Bluelightz wrote:

Tracker & Watcher show's role block action as they track role actions and not factional actions.






Since NK is factional, tracker/watcher won't see it
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:28 GMT
#162
@risk:
It's more the general concept of Hiro to use a tracker claim as means of confirming town that I am against, not against claiming in general, but scum can easily counterclaim so it won't work that way.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:36 GMT
#164
While it would be sub-optimal play for scum to trade 1 for 1 that early, you cannot dismiss the possibility.

On the other hand I could see it working out for the better if he claims as early as you suggest. He would leave scum fishing for the doc between the other townies.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:42 GMT
#167
@Forumite:
check the first page and the post risk linked, it's right there. Factional actions don't get tracked/watched.

On your accusation (or rather opinion, it feels rather weak to me):
I wanted to get started, so I posted, probably should have proofread it to avoid misunderstandings like this one. I am not against shutting down policytalk completely, I have already done some of it myslef by now. I was more stating the intent to not go overboard with it, since scumhunting is our priority.
As you are doing it already, looks like my wish was granted, although on the wrong target
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 07 2012 21:52 GMT
#170
Just saw that as well. Seems like watcher has some higher chance to get a check in
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 08 2012 10:00 GMT
#199
I just read sciberbia's case on Forumite, while it has merit, I am unsure of him being scum. I can also see the early scumread on me simply as an early attempt to get some discussion/pressure going, he succeeded in that regard for sure. Regarding the logical inconsistencies they are a concern, but for now I would just like to keep an eye on him.

@Custos
I would really like you to contribute more. All you have done until now is pointing out a rather silly (read almost nonexistent) contradiction in one of sciberbia's posts and voicing some concern regarding me and prphlz. Mind elaborating why?

Currently I am having an issue with Mordanis:

Take a look at his opening post:

+ Show Spoiler +
On August 08 2012 03:34 Mordanis wrote:
I actually disagree that talking policy early on is bad. It is only bad when the policy talk tells scum how to get off free. "We will only lynch active players" tells scum that they can get one or two players to the late-game with as little content to hold against them as possible. On a similar note, it's probably not a good idea to discuss your heuristics for finding scum until you find examples of them in people's play. If you start talking about them right now, unless you list 173 of them, scum probably will actively avoid fitting your heuristic, thus ruining your chance of finding scum. Discussing when/how to use novel mechanics is simply a rational thing to do early in the game, though. Personally, I haven't had too much time to think about when/how to use the double lynch mechanic, but I can say that in my experience it happens fairly often that neither candidate up for lynching D1 is scum, and going from 9 town 3 scum D1 to 6 town 3 scum D2 would be pretty brutal. In short, I am strongly against D1 multi-lynching unless something very convincing happens to change my mind. Aside from that, the only other bit of policy I have to offer is that we should probably wait until night to discuss power roles, NKs, etc. During the day, all that really matters (in the absence of Day-vigis) is town/mafia. Daytime is for hunting scum, not deciding power role strategy. Enough with the policy now, I'm off to find scum.


He is against cutting policy talk short and proceeds to do a good amount of it. The next sentence marks Mord as anti-lurker, but then he says that policy-talk should not be done, since it gives scum a pattern to avoid. But then he goes back to say that policytalk is useful based on the ground that there is nothing else to be done.

This entire paragraph is extremely redundant and makes me think of him trying to boost the look of his filter by seemingly contributing in a circular logic pattern.

His next two posts are hitting Custos, he questions why he quotes that part of scib.

+ Show Spoiler +
On August 08 2012 04:26 Mordanis wrote:
-snip-
Funnily enough, the first person I'd like to ask a question is Mr. CL himself. In a way, Sciberbia's post telling people not to claim VT doesn't make any sense, especially when he comes out and says that he's a dwarf. On the other hand though, I don't see why you called out that illogical passage. Are you implying that bad logic is scummy? Or are you just poking fun at him?


He is again extremely wishy-washy. Just look at it, first he critisizes scib for claiming alignment (which is pretty much a nulltell in my opinion), but then he also "does not see" how that could be called out. When Hiro says that it is a nulltell and differentiates between alignment claim and VT claim Mord responds like this:

+ Show Spoiler +
On August 08 2012 04:35 Mordanis wrote:
He is still implying that he's VT though, or else just asking for scum to kill him. When someone claims town, they are trying to make other people perceive them as VT. Why else would you claim town?



Now he suddenly is much more concerned about claiming alignment (which he again links to VT). Flip-flopping at its best.

Also on his latest post:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 08 2012 05:23 Mordanis wrote:
Right, and so saying that you shouldn't claim VT when you make a statement that's only purpose is to make yourself be perceived as VT seems illogical to me. Enough on that subject though ^^

Wow, Forumite's accusation came much earlier than I expected. All Shiao had done was come out as anti-policy, and then when pressed came out against lying and lurking. What in that is scummy, I have no idea.
I think its clear that Forumite has some type of plan hatching, but until we find out what the plan is, his early accusation is sort of weightless. It could be an attempt to draw scum out or to force townie mistakes in order to mislynch. Or it could be something completely different, or even some amazing, irrefutable meta-read that paints Shiao as scum already. I don't see how that could be possible, but without further information, it's sort of a null read on Forumite for now. I think Forumite does deserve some extra attention, as I'm always kind of wary of people who are scheming.



Keep in mind that Forumite had already accused me much earlier than Mord posted. He only gives his opinion on it when Hiro asked him specifialy to do so. Mord sees no reason to suspect me, but hadn't he said that he also dislikes cutting policy short? Shouldn't he agree with Forumite's accusation based on that? Furthermore examine the rest of the post after the part I bolded. It is actually pure fluff.

I feel that Mord has a higher chance of flipping scum than Forumite does, so

##vote: Mordanis
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
August 08 2012 12:06 GMT
#203
any of you care to comment on my case on mord?
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
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