EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XX
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game. Just looking for some clarification on the no PM rule. As I understand it, this forbids the use of teamliquid.net PMs, but does this prohibit other forms of contact out of the game-thread itself (i.e. 3rd party chat programs, IRC, etc)? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 04 2012 11:42 Radfield wrote: What happened is I ended up changing the setup and adding in an extra townie. So it should in fact be 13 players. However, if we want to run it as 12 that's probably fine too. How bout we start tomorrow night no matter what, either with 12 or 13 players. Sounds good | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I would like to cast an FOS on JingleHell, who's actions in day 1 have been nothing but contradictions so far. Well, Hopeless, since you're at least talking, I don't think you're scum yet. However, if day1 lurkers start causing trouble, I'm all for just throwing the dice and lynching one just to make a clear point. Also, just as wonky meta, compared to your D1 play in XIX, I'm pretty sure you're town here. You're not afraid of prolific D1 posting, among other things. Actually, I'm VERY suspicious about YourHarry's lightning fast vote. Could be a throwaway effort to get a bandwagon started, since D1 voting is nonsense in newbie games. In the case of a mislynch, it would be easy to argue away. ##Vote YourHarry JingleHell opens the game by decrying D1 voting as "nonsense in newbie games," then immediately fires one out himself. When Harry replies with the innocent, "why is lightning fast vote scummy," JingleHell posts: EBWOP: And Harry, don't try to turn my logic around on me, my vote was based on your suspicious vote. Not only does this not address Harry's question, but it has an incredibly defensive tone when he was not yet attacked. Sounds to me like someone who is very paranoid in the early game... I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end. Oh, and bear in mind, I won't do this if a case gets made. I let people make their own counter-claim. I only stepped in because I see random D1 votes as so dangerous in our newbie games. JingleHell posts another crusade against bandwagoning and day 1 voting, despite his earlier vote against YourHarry. In addition, he's very adamant (almost panicked) about this "avoiding bandwagoning" business. From a townie perspective, what incentive does he have to discourage bandwagnoning only a few hours into the game? I would understand if this was a day or a half-a day before the lynch, but seeing who does and does not bandwagon provides us townies with time to provide good reads. It makes no sense to take such a staunch anti-bandwagoning platform so quickly into the game. Finally, Jingle Hell has been content to laugh off a legitimate post against his early-game behavior by lazermonkey. Lazer's post ---> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=7#132 I can't decide what to laugh at first, but at least now people are explaining votes. If you want to see what showed me that early voting with no rationalization at all is bad, go see D1 XIX. Ridiculous mislynch, because of votes with zero substance. No defense, and completely ignores a topic worthy of response. In conclusion, FOS on JingleHell. His actions regarding D1 voting are contradictory, and he's taken a very suspicious stance on anti-bandwagnoning so early into day 1. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I mean look at this: Yeah, you pretty much nailed my point, Release. I actually already explained it, but they're ignoring it and burying it with more of this nonsense, so I'm not feeling particularly inclined to get into a shouting match with them. If the town has the slightest chance in hell this game, then people will see the sense in the responses I've already made. My light commitments and obvious easy comments are mostly because there's little to discuss without stooping to their level. If I don't play their game, and I don't want to get the bandwagon rolling violently over a towny, then the best thing to do is observe and respond, rather than letting myself get dragged into some OMGUS shouting match that only benefits scum. But this is exactly what you are doing by posting these types of things! No effort at defense, posting belittling remarks instead of making posts with any sort of content. You are the one creating the shouting match, and you can stop it by taking your accusers seriously. Prove your innocence instead of taking it for granted. So a me too post that contributes nothing while taking me out of context is supposed to make me nervous? Yawn. The day1 voting reference was talking about people bandwagoning onto any case built on nothing, as I actually discussed. Which you completely ignored. It's like you dug through 20% of my filter and ignored all the inconvenient parts. You sound like Lazer's pet parrot. Like I said, if people D1 lynch me based off bad jokes like you and lazer's posts, the town is doomed anyways. Ignored what? How have I taken you out of context? You denounced early voting and promptly voted for Harry. You refuse to provide any defense and are making every effort to be condescending to the players who accuse you. If you want to take that attitude into a newbie game, you're going to get bandwagoned. Simple as that. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 05 2012 13:23 Khorrus wrote: Sorry I'm a bit late. I notice I seem to have already missed sex toys and what looks to be the beginning of some mini bandwagons. While I can't quite determine what's going on with the YourHarry, Hopeless Situaation, Lazermonkey's post seems off many words to flip flop and not say much of value. You've just posted a list of four names while saying nothing of value yourself. Rather scummy behavior. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 05 2012 14:59 Release wrote: That's just grasping at straws, which is one of the reasons Lazer is my top priority lynch. And as far as i can tell, he hasn't even had a thorough reading of the thread yet. way too over-eager to point out every little flaw. Exactly what has Lazer done to be a "top-priority lynch?" According to your filter, you have two posts detailing cases against Lazer. The first is an analysis of his first post: On July 05 2012 08:58 Release wrote: I think YourHarry is Grush's new alias. Ignoring the copy-pasted policy stuff for now, Why on earth did you even post that scenario stuff about a VT fake-claiming a DT or blue? There was absolutely no indication that anyone had even planned on that (especially considering you had the first post). If anything, you have just shown people something they can do (to the detriment of the town). And why go through the casework? It's just fluff and you know it. This is very much a post looking like a contribution, while being a non-contribution, or even an anti-contribution. Im pretty sure, again, that no one was even remotely close to voting in a way to force a nolynch. I love the bolded line; you could have kept this post simple and concise. But you decided to make it "super-duper long." ##vote: Lazermonkey Yourharry, you should do more than OMGUS. You are definitely rivaling, for scumminess, against lazer. Fos: yourharry Fos: lazermonkey It's worth saying that Lazer's first post was made 12 minutes after the game started. I'm not sure when the mafia separate forum-thingy goes online (at the start of the game or when the role PM's are sent out?,) but his message seems innocent and hardly "an attempt to brainwash unsuspecting townies" - as you call it in a later post. Him warning about townie fake-claiming is a legitimate concern, as it led to the downfall of the town in one of his previous games. While this may seem common-knowledge to the both of us, it is clearly not obvious to some players, and thus is worth mentioning. While I agree his post is "fluffy," it does not seem like an attempt to "brainwash" townsfolk, and his actions can be seen as having a pro-town mentality. This is hardly FOS material. Your second case against Lazer is a response to his case about JingleHell. On July 05 2012 11:08 Release wrote: are you outing Jingle as your scumbuddy? or maybe trying to drag him down with you? YOU ARE SO CONFUSING. OMGUS. Why are you promoting your first post as a discussion starter? It isn't. It is an attempt to brainwash unsuspecting townies and get us talking about useless things. I commend him for shutting your down your post with this authority. If you are actually using the discussion of sex toys as a reason to call him scum, you really are just grasping at straws for lack of any real substance. In terms of day1, i don't think setting a tone on lynching lurkers is necessarily a bad thing. should we decide on lynching a lurker, the lurkers will feel a need to speak up in order to avoid getting the lynch. In other words, saying "let's lynch lurkers" promotes discussion. And "to make a point" states exactly that. "speak up or die." Jingle should probably reply to the next part, but as far as i can see, it goes - OMGUS OMGUS OMGUS ##vote -##vote x 10 - no discussion, the guy who got OMGUS'd has nothing to attack/defend. Checkmate. Turns out, he was VT o.O _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ That being said, Jingle has only made very light commitments and commented on very obvious/easy things. Lazer, you still look worse. What ever his stance may be, he clearly took the time to read through JingleHell's post. He's also taking a firm stance against a player, and making a clear attempt at analysis (even if it is only day 1). You spend half your post talking about his first post, then address one of his points... then the rest I don't even understand. You have very strong feelings about Lazer, care to solidify your case for him to be a "top priority lynch?" | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 05 2012 15:44 BassInSpace wrote: Apologies for the late entrance, but my time zone makes it a bit hard to post concurrently with the rest of you. First of all, I don’t think harry’s lightning fast vote is as terrible as you make it out to be jingle; town has shown that it can obviously think for itself without jumping on mindless bandwagons. However, I would like to ask you hapahauli, what exactly is wrong with an anti-bandwagon stance? We want to actually encourage people to post their reads and think before voting, not going with the flow of the thread, which is what mafia likes doing. I can’t think of any situation where bandwagoning helps town, much like fake claiming doesn’t help. Lazermonkey’s long first post is similar to jingle’s anti-bandwagon stance, no? I’ll have a look at the other points against him later, as it seems a few others are FOSing him, but I need to head out now and just wanted to clarify with hapahauli. Also, Mackin seems to have completely dropped off with no significant contributions whatsoever, and we KNOW he was around during most of the discussion during this first 24 hours. Not too sure about the other lurkers yet obviously, but I know JieXian and I will have similar post timing (see NMM XVIII) because we’re only 2 hours apart. Hi Bass and welcome to the game! My argument (re: anti-bandwagonning) is that it is more appropriate to take such a stance closer to the lynch deadline. I feel that taking such a strong policy early in the cycle stance can limit the amount of posts that players make. Players can post with less inhibition without such a stance in place, which makes for additional opportunities to make reads for townies (i.e, I may be discouraged from posting analysis on Mackin because I maybe seen as "bandwagonning" off of you). I'm all for this stance closer to lynch time, but it serves as nothing but an inhibition on posting this early in the game. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
As I've taken some time to cool down a bit, I'm growing worried that this thread is going to turn into a giant post-bang between the four most active/reckless players on the thread so far (YourHarry, JingleHell, Release, LazerMonkey, and Me). Such a situation would be extremely harmful to the town and would let the Mafia sit in the shadows while we war over one another. Perhaps we can turn our attention to two suspicious posts by some lurkers in an effort to get them to speak up: TMG26 His first post is rife with a desire to look helpless, lots of fluff, and indecision (my commentary is bolded). + Show Spoiler [First Post] + On July 05 2012 08:38 TMG26 wrote: It's a 13 player game, and only 3 mobsters, so there is still a room for a litle mistake on day1 Megafluff, and downplaying the importance of day 1 reads With a random vote on day 1 the probability of hitting scum is low, but missing wont be that dangerous, the question that i want to make is: With this low ratio of scum, does the nolynch becomes more or less viable? I'm still a newbie in mafia games, thats one of the reasons of asking this questing trying to look helpless And sorry about my bad english, i'm not a native speaker more helplessness About what being happening here.. Lazer was not clear on what he said, Hopeless stated that, and yourHarry immidiatly voted Hopeless for that So, in my opinion if we want to catch the scum we have to confront them, so i Hopeless did the right thing...But so did yourHarry, what i find funny was JingleHell jumping in to declare FoS on yourHarry In my opinion Hopeless and yourHarry did almost same same thing Note the language - "in my opinion" as opposed to saying it outright. Overly diplomatic and indecisive My main suspects right now fall to yourHarry and JingleHell, because your acusations seammed more like a counter acusation after a "scum teammate" being acused But is all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken Despite stating two suspects, immediately reverts to indecision When JingleHell replies to TMG26's passive accusation, TMG is apologetic, passive, and does not address the issue (commentary bolded again). + Show Spoiler [Response to JingleHell's Defense] + On July 05 2012 08:47 TMG26 wrote: Sorry, dont know what OMGUS is, i will search An apology... says he will search instead of just searching for the damn thing. Fluff. About the 23% odds, i didnt read that..... because of the time that it took me to type, i'll will make sure to check new replies before i post something that took a litle bit of time to type Does not address JingleHell and posts irrelevant information - "I'll make sure to read before I post..." More fluff/half-hearted accusations. + Show Spoiler [Response to Harry] + On July 05 2012 09:02 TMG26 wrote: Thanks for the welcome A: We cant know for sure what you are trying to do, a statment like "i'm not trying to mislynch" is worth notting... scum wont say they are trying to mislynch B: Well, there no eveindence that he wanted to start a bandwagon, there was only a acusation of lazer's contradiction, BUT you told us what you tought about it... thats your opinion, so its recorded now What?! What's even the point of that. What i believe he condemns you most is for the "early" vote... And then you came with the odds not being bad..................... Further indecision Makes another overly diplomatic/indecisive/fluff post that points suspicions to JingleHell and Harry + Show Spoiler [Another Diplomatic/Accusatory Post] + On July 05 2012 10:49 TMG26 wrote: Even if it is Plurality Lynch, there's still 40 hours left And its again funny to see that Hopeless jumped on your defence... After you had already voted harry after harry voted hopeless In my mind, you and harry are the prime suspects..but only a few hours have passed, and i dont want to jump into bad conclusions Mackin I have less of a case on Mackin, but his first post is very very suspicious. Inaccurate/Bandwagon post on LazerMonkey. + Show Spoiler + On July 05 2012 07:06 Mackin wrote: Hey guys, just putting it out there Lazer is already on my FoS list and we're only just beginning, long contradictory post with almost too much effort put in. Underlined part is simply not true. The post only has one contradiction, and it isn't very long. Criticizing someone for putting "almost too much effort" into posting is a huge red flag. This sounds like someone who saw someone's criticism of a lone contradiction and immediately jumped on the bandwagon without any analysis. Very anti-town mentality. His next few posts are comprised of one-liners and fluff: + Show Spoiler + On July 05 2012 07:17 Mackin wrote: HellJingle, that's an interesting name... On July 05 2012 07:28 Mackin wrote: On July 05 2012 07:22 Hopeless1der wrote: Mackin give the poor guy a chance, he's just a little excited I think. I just wanted to give him a heads up so he checks his posts more carefully, that way we can narrow down our scum lists earlier rather than later. Fair enough point, but I just want to stir up some conversation to get people talking. Ain't that what Mafia's all about?  [B]On July 05 2012 07:56 Mackin wrote: @Harry We have a clever one here methinks. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Release's aggressive/FingerPointing play isn't grounds for suspicion; he is incredibly aggressive in his other games as townie. www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII - Vigilante) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342960&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XVI - Townie) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337671&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XIV - Townie) In these games, he always picks an early target or two (for marginal, sometimes joke reasons) and relentlessly pressures them. Sometimes, this pressure goes on for far too long, but its done with good intentions. I don't wish to go and dissect all his past games, but I suggest you take a look through his past to get a feel for his town play. However, I would like to point out that Release's hard stance on LazerMonkey's first post is unusual given a previous mafia game they've played together. In Newbie Mini Mafia XVI, LazerMonkey makes a similar introductory post (clicky!) to the one he made in this thread. Release raises no objections with it in their past game, but he makes it a point to raise an objection on it in this game. Needless to say, LazerMonkey turned up town-alligned in the previous game. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 06 2012 01:02 TMG26 wrote: So basically you guys are acusing me based on my heplessness and the lack of new content in my post... Ok, its my very first game here, and i only played mafia twice on a totally different community and on a different language, so its a litle bit natural to me to be a litle bit "scared" You may say its scummy atitude, all that i can say to defend myself is that it was a newbie atitude... The underlined part is very important. While this is TMG's first game in English, this is not his first game. He should know the difference between good and bad townie behavior, which makes his wishy-washy attitude very suspicious. Also, the attacks on TMG aren't only for his indecision. BassinSpace brings up some anti-townie behavior in TMG's posts that needs explanation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=9#172 On July 06 2012 01:02 TMG26 wrote: well i wasnt very clear it seems.. Lets see what happenned before that post: >Harry voted Hopeless >jingle isnta voted Harry for that vote >Harry voted Jingle >Hopeless returns and gives some suport to Jingle i believe that the part that confused you was saying that harry and jingle were the prime ones, not jingle and hopeless. Well, what i was trying to say was that harry and jingle were the ones with bigger chance to be scum due to OMGUS, of course that if jingle is revealed scum Hopeless chances of being scum increases I don't care for the argument logic, but it's D1 and anything goes. This part looks fine, but his accusation of Release is very suspicious. __________________________________ On July 06 2012 01:02 TMG26 wrote:It seem people want me to take a stance, fine! Only taking a stance because other people want you to? Anti-town mentality. Reading the new posts it to me that Release is trying to force a lynch on Lazer, and i see no motive for that Good good, pointing the finger... Release main acusation is that Lazer first post is really bad, sure, it wasnt good, he wrote so much, and almost no decent content... Immediately agrees with Release's argument about Lazer... what? But your main acusation is that Lazer's first post if it had really started a discussion on the subject as he intended to do we would loose tremendous amount of time discussing meangless stuff, and I ask you, how could we loose that much time discussing why VT shouldnt fake claim? Its a little obious what lazer said, so it wouldnt wast us as much time as you want us to believe Mostly summary of previous discussion. Also spends more time defending Lazer than actually attacking Release I dont see the point of the sex toys discussion not being rehashed, Lazer did not tried to rehash what he pointed out in the first post, and it seems like you are saying that the sex toys discussion was positive This is not a very damning quote by Release at all. Basically, i agree that Lazeer first post was bad, but it wasnt the work of the scum Devil that you want us to believe, it seems to me that you are trying really hard to see Lazer lynched at all costs when there werent another topic going on that you didnt pay atition Agrees with Release AGAIN. Then takes a stance on Release while providing nothing of substance to verify it (if your main point is that Release is starting a witch hunt, there are many better quotes/evidence to support his case FoS Release His entire case on Release a summary of previous analysis. In addition, his accusation is wishy-washy beyond the point that language-barriers can account for. The way he approaches LazerMonkey's first post within his argument is incredibly suspicious. @ TMG, I hope you can address these concerns of mine. In addition, I want to hear your thoughts on BassinSpace's post on your "anti-town" behavior (clicky!). FOS on TMG26 | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 06 2012 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote: ... Rabbitz came back and had a read on Release that looks pretty good, but there are a couple other fingers pointed at Release concern me: + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2012 02:48 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding the FOS's on Release (by TMG26 and Evulrabbitz) Release's aggressive/FingerPointing play isn't grounds for suspicion; he is incredibly aggressive in his other games as townie. www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII - Vigilante) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342960&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XVI - Townie) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337671&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XIV - Townie) In these games, he always picks an early target or two (for marginal, sometimes joke reasons) and relentlessly pressures them. Sometimes, this pressure goes on for far too long, but its done with good intentions. I don't wish to go and dissect all his past games, but I suggest you take a look through his past to get a feel for his town play. However, I would like to point out that Release's hard stance on LazerMonkey's first post is unusual given a previous mafia game they've played together. In Newbie Mini Mafia XVI, LazerMonkey makes a similar introductory post (clicky!) to the one he made in this thread. Release raises no objections with it in their past game, but he makes it a point to raise an objection on it in this game. Needless to say, LazerMonkey turned up town-alligned in the previous game. Hapahauli is doing a big backslide from his previous case on Release, after seeing + Show Spoiler + On July 05 2012 14:59 Release wrote: That's just grasping at straws, which is one of the reasons Lazer is my top priority lynch. And as far as i can tell, he hasn't even had a thorough reading of the thread yet. way too over-eager to point out every little flaw. and just jumps all over it, building a huge case:+ Show Spoiler + On July 05 2012 15:40 Hapahauli wrote: Exactly what has Lazer done to be a "top-priority lynch?" According to your filter, you have two posts detailing cases against Lazer. The first is an analysis of his first post: It's worth saying that Lazer's first post was made 12 minutes after the game started. I'm not sure when the mafia separate forum-thingy goes online (at the start of the game or when the role PM's are sent out?,) but his message seems innocent and hardly "an attempt to brainwash unsuspecting townies" - as you call it in a later post. Him warning about townie fake-claiming is a legitimate concern, as it led to the downfall of the town in one of his previous games. While this may seem common-knowledge to the both of us, it is clearly not obvious to some players, and thus is worth mentioning. While I agree his post is "fluffy," it does not seem like an attempt to "brainwash" townsfolk, and his actions can be seen as having a pro-town mentality. This is hardly FOS material. Your second case against Lazer is a response to his case about JingleHell. What ever his stance may be, he clearly took the time to read through JingleHell's post. He's also taking a firm stance against a player, and making a clear attempt at analysis (even if it is only day 1). You spend half your post talking about his first post, then address one of his points... then the rest I don't even understand. You have very strong feelings about Lazer, care to solidify your case for him to be a "top priority lynch?" He pushed him for a bit, and then finally let up once everyone else had suspicions on Release. His change of stance is well timed to distance himself from his provoking, but he still leaves himself an open avenue to target Release later on based on his meta from a game where Lazer played the same but got a different response from Release than this game.. The other thing that I found scummy about him was his reason for suspecting Jingle in this case: I don't get how being anti-bandwagon can be seen as suspicious. Bandwagoning is terrible and I completely agree with Jingle's stance on it, seeing as I was the victim of a D1 mislynch in XVIII. Scum don't have to push for a majority vote this game, they can let us rile ourselves up and can vote with little risk of getting themselves caught in the mislynch votecount. FoS: Hapahauli @Hopless1der A lot your points are just flat-out wrong. You first quote a short paragraph I have on the subject of Release (regarding past game history/interaction with LazerMonkey) and state that this is a "backslide from my previous case on Release." What? I had no previous case on Release - I simply asked him to clarify his stance on Lazer, and there was nothing remotely accusatory in my post. The only two players I have FOS'd are JingleHell (retracted) and currently TMG26. I have no idea why you're calling my two paragraph analysis of Release's opinion on Lazer a "huge case." It's not even a case! You then mention that I retract from my "case" when other people suspect him. This is flat out wrong again. Before anyone suspected release, I immediately made a move to put suspicion on Mackin and TMG26. No one FOS'd Release in the time between my "case" against him and my actual case on TMG and Mackin. Hell, the only post about Release in that timespan was LazerMonkey defending himself from Release's attacks. In regards to my whole anti-bandwagoning thing against Jingle, I clarified my stance in this post (click). You're using a summary sentence to represent my complete view instead of taking the time to read my arguments. I don't see anything unreasonable about my stance, do you? Your accusation mis-represents my posts without any analysis, and you are spreading easily verifiable falsehood regarding me "switching stances" on Release. This is horrendous analysis and is deliberate misrepresentation of my posts. This is very anti-town play. FOS Hopeless1der | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 06 2012 05:45 Hopeless1der wrote: Bandwagoning allows for the exact opposite of what you say. Its to place a vote without looking at the reasoning or thought behind it. If you were to post analysis on Mackin, thats analysis not bandwagoning to me. Perhaps we're disagreeing on the meaning and taken in the context of your post, sounds like a fair statement. I disagree with your definition of 'bandwagon'. Between the posts that I quoted regarding Release, two players had FOS'd him. You didn't explicitly say you had a FOS on Release but it did feel like it to me. Calling it 'huge' was overstepping things, and you maintain it wasn't a case at all, so I'll drop it, but I'm still seeing some underlying suspicion about Release. You seem to have switched gears rather quickly despite taking some significant time building a case against me. You're avoiding a confrontation with me despite me leveling serious accusations against your case and motivations. You are not addressing the instances of the false evidence (click) you brought up against me. Instead of answering my accusations, you bring up the most non-confrontational part of my post: my anti-bandwaggoning stance. Finally, you post incredibly vague judgement on my "case" on Release. I'm very clear about my intent and simply use my post to ask him a question. You want to see what my FOS looks like? Take a look at these three posts (click). I have been very up front about when I am suspicious of someone. There is no "underlying suspicion." Your case has absolutely no basis, and I want some explanations about why you chose to attack me while taking me grossly out of context and using clearly false information. I'm not done with you. I want some explanations. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
@Hopeless1der: And just so you don't mistake my post as "underlying suspicion," I would like to make it perfectly clear what I think about your last two posts. You brought attention to a player who had not yet been attacked using false and out of context evidence. You immediately flip-flopped and avoided confrontation when presented with this. You are not pro-town, your goal has been to discredit my analysis so far and incite paranoia amongst the town. You are mafia. ## Vote: Hopeless1der | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
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My case on Hopeless1der: + Show Spoiler + Case vs. TMG26: + Show Spoiler + Case vs. Release: + Show Spoiler + [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=10#182]EvulRabbits FOS on Release [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=10#185]TMG's FOS on Release[/url] These three are the major ones (only substantial FOS's) for now - I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on one or all of them. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Case vs. Release + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I'm not accusing you only because you made a bad case (poor analysis isn't always a mafia trait). Rather, I'm accusing you because your case is misleading. The only point of your case is to rile up suspicion rather than providing sound, townie analysis. For example, look at the difference between your original post and the analysis you just posted. Your first post immediately jumps on me questioning Release as a strong case against him. This most recent post is a huge change in viewpoint from your original post. If this was your original position, why didn't you post it in your original analysis? I have no choice but to conclude that you didn't read my posts, didn't properly analyze, and tried to discredit me. You also clearly use clearly false evidence in your original case: On July 06 2012 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote: He pushed him for a bit, and then finally let up once everyone else had suspicions on Release. His change of stance is well timed to distance himself from his provoking, but he still leaves himself an open avenue to target Release later on based on his meta from a game where Lazer played the same but got a different response from Release than this game.. The underlined part goes beyond poor analysis - this is straight up untruthful. I asked Release a question, then very quickly shifted towards accusations against TMG26 and Mackin. No one changed their opinion on Release between those two posts. My two posts for the record (note the lack of suspicions of Release between the posts) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=9#161 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=9#168 Townies can bring up baseless cases to incite discussion (re: JingeHell and sex toys), however, using misleading information in a case is a decidedly mafia trait. In addition, a townie has no motivation to start an accusation against a player actively posting reads. The only function your post served was to discredit me, as opposed to providing any actual analysis. You have said nothing that will convince me to change my vote. Now to reply to your suspicions about my posts on Release: On July 06 2012 10:55 Hopeless1der wrote: My issue is with what happened after you asked Release to clarify his position. He completely ignores your post, and you pretty much completely give him a pass on your next post about him. I dropped perusing Release because I've found a much better case to chase - you. On July 06 2012 10:55 Hopeless1der wrote:The one thing here is that you make a statement about how his meta doesn't match with a previous game and it might be scummy behavior: The whole last paragraph...I don't know if you're saying it makes Lazer and/or Release look townie or scummy, but its very nonchalant and easy to overlook. You seem to be pro-Release in your overall posting but I saw something suspicious and brought it up. Great. This deserves an FOS for what reason? How is this even suspicious? I'm being a good townie and dumping all the reads and information I see on the thread. This continues to make you look bad. First you post you have a case against me, then you back off in your previous post, then you post that I look suspicious? The hell? On July 06 2012 10:55 Hopeless1der wrote: I get how my claiming it was a huge case pissed you off and drove you to attack me back, but the issue was still fresh and I didn't want it getting brushed off for being a weak/half-assed read. I don't get how its anti-town to point out things I find suspicious. How else are we supposed to hunt scum if no one makes a read on different people? Do you think you've got all 3 scum locked down already or something? Maybe I should never contradict anyone ever again. Holy scum-tells batman! This one deserves a separate post! I'll get to work on this one right away. | ||
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