EPTNewbie Mini Mafia VIII
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
Let's not waste pointless discussion on useless stuff. The worst thing a town can have is inactivity(it's one of the reasons we lost in Newbie V), I'm making it a priority to push anyone who's lurking, a lurking town is as bad as a scum. Lynch all liars is dumb, don't dwell on that. Proposing bad plays like a rng lynch is also pretty anti-town. You should always have a reason to lynch, if anything else it should be the person with the lowest productive posts by the end of voting. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:42 KharadBanar wrote: EBWOP: Notice how both the openings I explained ended up in the guy doing it (a townie) getting lynched. When start discussion with something like this, we're gonna have to do it right. Aperture Mafia had us lynching Drazerk D1 who was 3rd party, not a town. Yes it wasted discussion for D1, but in the end it was still worth it for town to get rid of him and obtain more information from his role PM. Don't equate the two, Aperture was by far way more complex than any Newbie game and can hardly be used as a constructive example for either town or scum behavior (read Greymist's blogs if you're wondering on how the game went down) If the rest of you are going to let that comment by Dittert slide, I'm going to be unhappy. That comment was 100% useless and even if he is town I'm willing to sacrifice him to weed out the real scum. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 12 2012 09:16 Dittert wrote: Not RNG lynch... RNG proposed lynch. I was trying to gauge people's reactions to things. If we RNG and hit scum, surely at least 2 people will jump up to defend that person or risk losing one of their own. If no one really cares about killing that person, they're probably town. You're insinuating that Mafia would be willing to openly defend one of their members from a laughable RNG proposed lynch? This is WIFOM for what scum would do, don't dwell on this line of thinking. Why would they even bother risking the attention? This is not helping town, keep going and I'll make you my Day1 vote. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
I've played in Newbie V and almost won as town, but we had a lot of people drop out and get modkilled due to inactivity, and we let a scum slide for 2 days because we couldn't get our act together and vote him. I've learned a lot from the feedback I got and I'm going to be more active and assertive this game, so don't be an inactive town or I will push you. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 12 2012 09:29 KharadBanar wrote: @vonKlaust: I claimed that I was pressure voting simply because I saw what happened to Kohbee in VI: He didn't properly claim it, people got confused and the chaos happened because they mistook him for scum. As to whether it's a bit early for pressure voting: I can take the vote off HiroPro pretty easily later on, but the exact timing when I exert/take off the pressure doesn't matter as much (I think, please correct me about this if I'm wrong). You kind of made a mistake by announcing the reason you were pushing him was to evoke a response. The timing does matter, if you put it on him this early what is he going to be able to claim to defend himself with? He's obviously going to say "I'm town, don't vote me", which cannot be verified at this point. If you pressure later on in the game and start using his own responses against him, that's stronger pressure and can lead to scumslipping and the inconsistencies of a true scum player. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 12 2012 15:57 Xatalos wrote: /confirm I strongly disagree with people saying this discussion has been "idle chat" or "pointless discussion". There's only so much you can do 7 hours into the game, but what I've got from these posts has been VERY useful: in fact, after reading all the posts in one go, I'm already ready to cast a vote (not just a fake pressure like KharadBanar). The person I want to lynch the most right now is: ArcticFox. Here is what I got from his filter so far: On the surface this looks like friendly advice to fellow townies, but this is EXACTLY the kind of posting I did on A Game of Thrones Mafia as a Mafia Framer. His attitude seems like he wants to appear useful, but he doesn't really say anything useful - the opposite of actual townies who want to be useful, but don't care as much about their appearance. The overall feel I get from this post is "please don't lynch me, I'm being useful!" First of all: why discuss about blue roles at all? This is the same mistake I did in A Game of Thrones Mafia - we kept talking about blue roles in the Mafia chat, so subconsciously I mentioned possibilities about the blue roles even in the normal thread. And what do you mean with "idle chat is not good"? So far this "idle chat" has been very useful (certainly much more useful than silence or the trolling/flaming we had in A Game of Thrones Mafia...). Also, you keep mentioning policies, which is something Mafia loves to do - you can appear somewhat useful without actually contributing anything. There he goes again, talking about blue roles. It's too bad it probably ends now after I mention this, but I would have wanted to see how many times he can talk about blue roles / blue reads during the game, since this is the second time already in only 7 hours... And if you think Dittert is Mafia, why not vote for him or even put any real pressure on him? It looks like you just want to fake pressure an obvious target (a suspiciously acting townie) or put some distance between yourself and a fellow Mafia (if he gets lynched, you can claim you "pushed for his lynch" all along). You look like you want to make a policy lynch, since you keep talking about policies, but still try to appear as if you "want" to lynch a Mafia player (if something too obvious comes along and you have to bus your teammate). I got a pretty solid Mafia read already in just a matter of hours, so this discussion is definitely not "useless"... ##Vote: ArcticFox Other people I'm going to keep a close watch on: Dittert, yomi. Neither have contributed to the thread, but still tried to appear "active" enough to avoid being lynched. yomi even had a strange OMGUS reaction to BroodKingEXE after being suspected, without ANYTHING to back up his counter-suspicion. Also, this: Exactly the same kind of tactic I employed in A Game of Thrones Mafia... You want to apologize for your mistakes and noobish play (why would a townie ever need the urge to make a public apology?!) to make people think of you as a noob townie. I can feel the fear and hesitation pouring from this post. I would also want to hear your opinion, Acrofales. You were VERY active and talkative in A Game of Thrones Mafia, but so far you have been inactive. What do you think about my case on ArcticFox? Do you have your own Mafia reads that I might have missed? Terrible case on Arcticfox. You're willing to lynch someone 7 hours into the game based on your experiences of how you played Mafia in the GoT game? I looked through your filter, even you stated yourself that it felt too easy as Mafia to hide because you never drew attention to yourself. I also recognize that Acrofales was your scum buddy that game and your Mafia plan was to rely on his "noobiness" to let him get away with his opening post (but it almost got him lynched) Your entire reasoning behind attacking him was that he mentioned blue roles a few times and he was in favor of policy lynches, something that you said you did "as Mafia." So basically if someone said something that you would do, you would assume that is suspicious even though you mostly coasted in GoT, you didn't lead the town towards a mis-lynch or towards wrong lines of thinking. Don't project your experience from GoT in here with that little reasoning, you're creating a bandwagon and getting everyone to agree with you based on terrible logic. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 12 2012 17:14 Xatalos wrote: Nevertheless, you were THINKING about blue tells as you considered lynching lurkers = possibly killing blues. It's not a reason enough to lynch you yet, but if I had to choose between you or anyone else outside of ArcticFox, Dittert and yomi, I would choose to vote for you. And you seem to forget that blue players very rarely are lurkers: mostly they try to act like vanilla townies and be at least somewhat active. Being a lurker or semi-lurker means a higher chance of Mafia, since it's against Mafia's win condition to contribute. Besides, I found your hesitation and wishy-washiness more condemning than your comment about lurkers = blues. On April 12 2012 19:03 Xatalos wrote: Hmm, good answer. Your suspiciousness dropped a bit in my eyes. I want to see ArcticFox, Dittert, yomi and KharadBanar respond yet. You had suspicions in allinson, and then when he blindly followed your bandwagon you're okay with it and it drops your suspicion? I've played town every single time I've played mafia and it's always the bandwagoners that are suspicious. So quick to support you and you return the favor? No. Not this early, not without any credibilty earned. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote: @Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). 1. I was sleeping. 2. If I claim to be a blue role ("thus lying") and take a shot meant for a blue role, is that lying considered bad for town? I said don't dwell on liars both for referring to the policy, and dwelling on people talking about lying, which is completely pointless. If you claim VT because that will be the most common role but you're really mafia, how am I supposed to prove that you're lying? Oh right, I can't because I'm not scum. Therefore we must deal with the lies because it's part of the game. 3. No, town willing to kill other town is fine as long as you can find out the real mafia who are bandwagoning on a town for a easy mis-lynch. You rarely(never seen it) win a game of Mafia without friendly fire and mis-lynching innocent town because they played poorly, if you play poorly as town (which I've already gone over what not to do) then you deserve to get lynched. Numbers game means with 9 town and 3 mafia, you can lose up to 6 town until it's over without killing a single mafia (3-3 situation forces whichever team to have the fastest 3 votes in plurality) This is why I'm against Xatalos' case, he's making a case on another player and drawing out way too many bandwagoners who are willing to readily adopt his case because it's the only "strong" one out there. Newbie town are scared to voice their opinion so they latch onto a strong leader, but then if that leader is really mafia, then we have a bad situation for town. 4. I told you to stop your comments on RNG policy lynches because there is no logic behind them and is detrimental to town to waste time discussing it. You hiding behind your newbiness is not helping. It's okay to be a newb but I'm not going to take one of your reads seriously over mine because you have less experience and you keep harping on that as a defense. You make a case against me when I didn't even vote you, I told you to stop, you stopped, I left you alone. I have you pegged as a newb town in his first game, which I can relate to because I felt similar to you, unsure of myself, unwilling to be firm in my accusations. If you really think I'm mafia, make your stronger case, otherwise I'm going to ignore you and leave you to your own devices. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 13 2012 02:58 Xatalos wrote: Think about that a bit more closely. Why would Mafia want to lead the pressure visibly when they could just sit in the shadows and carefully manipulate the general opinion? That's what I did when I was Mafia. Also, I only had a slight suspicion of imallinson, and he made good comments on ArcticFox and Dittert, so I didn't see the point in pushing him for now. On April 12 2012 16:17 Xatalos wrote: This post is something to keep in mind going forward. It's full of hesitation and indecisive comments... And he even starts talking about blue reads, just like ArcticFox. Perhaps he and ArcticFox have been talking about their blue reads in Mafia chat and slipped that discussion over to this thread? People I'm fine with lynching right now: ArcticFox, Dittert, yomi, imallinson. I'm pretty sure at least 1-2 of these players are Mafia. If you four want to clear yourselves in my eyes, something major needs to happen. I suggest everyone to read my case on ArcticFox and vote for him. I'd put his chances of being Mafia at 70-80%, which is extremely high for me considering it's this early. I also want to see his response, though, but I don't know what would convince me otherwise at this point (I guess an EVEN stronger Mafia read on someone else, which isn't an easy feat to achieve!). This is your first post on imallinson, you call this not suspecting him highly? You claim that he made good points on Arcticfox and Dittert. Arcticfox is the case you're trying to push. Dittert is easily regarded as suspicious for his poor rng proposal. So he gets away by agreeing with you on one case and following others thoughts on another? Yeah that's trying to blend in. If you bandwagon onto someone else's case and vote accordingly, you better have a good reason with your own opinions, otherwise that just lets mafia jump on the easiest mis-lynch case and defend themselves with "but Xatalos thought he was Mafia, and I believe in Xatalos, so thats why I voted this [innocent townie]!" If you convince enough people to help you lynch Arcticfox because this is plurality vote, and he flips town, I'm going after you and whoever voted along with you without any good reason. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 13 2012 02:51 Xatalos wrote: Talking about policy lynches or blue roles isn't Mafia-like only because of my metagame experiences - it's universally not something town SHOULD be doing. I understand a new townie might not understand that, but you can't just let it slide based on "noob town". ArcticFox might just be a noob townie, but I haven't seen a better case against anyone else. What about you? Who do you think is Mafia and why? I'm leaning strongly towards imallinson at this point because he hasn't posted anything unique for himself, he's been hiding behind supporting your case against Arcticfox. Other reads I have now I am not willing to divulge at this point so they don't get defensive early, I'm curious to see how some of my suspects proceed as we still have 29 hours to go till deadline. I'll post a case on my vote target after I collect more evidence. The other suspicious person that everyone seems to agree on is Dittert, and I view him as simply a newb town and harmless. I'm taking note of the people so ready to jump on an easy target, being suspicious in itself should not be grounds for a lynch without decent evidence of malicious wrongdoing. I mis-lynched someone in Newbie V because he was "suspicious" and that was it, it was a mis-lynch and helped us lose the game because the other viable lynch was a real Mafia. I have learned from that and now I do not blindly agree with any lynches based on suspicion. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
Xatalos I notice you're active and posting, respond to my previous posts quoting you please, how do you view imallinson at this point and his readiness to agree with you? | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
If you want to be more active and useful for town yourself, take a moment and just pick a player (preferably someone not already under suspicion) and post your opinion on that person (including me if you want) whether he is looking pro-town, neutral, or anti-town. Don't lurk for fear of nothing to say. Try and contribute, and getting posts down where people can judge your reasoning and have a mental history of your opinions will be the reason you stay alive versus being targetted for lurking. This is targeted towards the players with less than a page of filter at this point. It's still midway through D1, but you need to step it up. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
We can have multiple candidates up for lynching with plurality vote, the person with the most votes among the candidates gets lynched (it's a lot better and easier to deal with than majority voting). Don't tunnel on one or two likely cases, we need to actively engage everyone so that no one has a chance to lurk or hide behind someone else, and that scum don't get a chance to bandwagon on an easy lynch. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:26 vonKlaust wrote: @BroodKingEXE Yes, me going with Xatalos against ArticFox was stupid. At the time, I tought the case looked strong, but looking back at it it doesn't seem that good of a case at all. I think I latched onto it because it was the only case going at the moment, and because I just didn't know what to do. I had a look at peoples filters, but I really felt that I couldn't find anything of value. It is true that I have not contributed that much when it comes to scum hunting. I've tried both to look at peoples filters and analyzing the thread in general, but pretty much to no avail until those posts by Xatalos caught my eye. So instead I tried to give feedback on other peoples ideas. Feedback on other people's ideas is not enough. You just recently made a post about Xatalos' case against Arcticfox when numerous people have already commented on it. Post your top scum read or top town read and have a unique opinion. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 13 2012 05:09 BroodKingEXE wrote: I'm going to vote for Dittert. So far his only attempt at an accusation is wiliz. He states that wiliz may be lurking or working. We have far more solid cases than a lurker right now. His second argument makes sense, but he is missing the point. Wiliz thinks Dittert is a bad townie, usually bad townies are Mafia. + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 23:53 Dittert wrote: @Xatalos I think you have a decent case against ArcticFox, and I would feel comfortable voting for him Day 1 (as things stand right now). That being said, I am actually even more suspicious of willz22912. He's lurking now (or sleeping, or at work) after posting a decent number of posts in the first 2 hours of the game. In those posts, he says a couple of things that catch my attention. First, How does that not scream scum? It's not just that he doesn't want a Lynch all Liars policy (which would in theory encourage, or at least allow for, lying), but he dismisses it out of hand. "Don't dwell on liars" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say. Second, we have this gem: Town willing to kill other town? Even a bad townie (or a townie with a bad idea) is still a townie. It seems to me that this is a numbers game, and you should want as many people on your team alive as possible. I think willz22912 saw my bad RNG play as an opportunity to get the town to lynch one of their own, hence all the commotion about it. That ArcticFox immediately joined willz makes me even more suspicious of him (him being AF). He also flat out claims a lie, that could've easily been a mistake (his post against yomi). He doesn't seem to want to follow the way of the town (we have come to the conclusion that we aren't going to policy lynch). Overall I think he needs to put in better input for the amount of gunslinging he is doing. ##Vote: Dittert What is this vote? You're going to vote him because he's a bad town and that's "usually mafia" ? Dittert's case against me is mostly OMGUS, it has no basis, and I don't need any defending and you don't need any other explanation other than he made a really bad case against me? Put more effort in your reasoning, Dittert is way too easy of a target, and I stand by my opinion that he's just a newbie town that had his idea shut down really hard and is scrambling to come up with something to contribute. Post your opinion on anyone else besides Dittert for your top scum picks, don't tunnel on him. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
On April 13 2012 04:45 imallinson wrote: He is my strongest town read because I have no sort of town read on anyone else. It certainly isn't super strong and if someone had a good argument against him I could be swayed. I assumed that scum wouldn't want to put themselves out there like Xalatos had. I guess that scum could hide behind that which I hadn't thought of. Thank you for pointing that out. What's your opinion on my claims against you? Bandwagoning on any vote without good cause is still bandwagoning, even if you're the first person. If I have a different opinion of Xatalos's case vs ArcticFox and I disagree with it, but you still agree with him (meaning you don't agree with my interpretation), why? I also find it highly unlikely that you have no other town reads on anyone else, you just didn't think of anyone else because Xatalos's case against ArcticFox was the only discussion point. Be more assertive and decisive in your opinions. If one good argument sways you then you are the type of town Mafia love to keep around because you sheep other people's thoughts. Don't keep to this line of thinking. | ||
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willz22912
United States255 Posts
I'm waiting on responses from at least half the thread, I'm not going to make a case based on this little posting, that's not going to convince anyone. I will have a case written up and posted at least 4-5 hours before deadline tomorrow(~1-2pm est), so that's enough time for discussion. Specifically, I'm calling out Yomi, BroodkingExe, HiroPro, imallinson, trumpetarm to post something, at least either their top town or scum read and their own opinions. I'm tired of seeing people pick on the easiest targets with little to no explanation. | ||
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