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On March 19 2012 02:16 GreYMisT wrote:
willz22912 is replacing vaderseven.
Hi everybody, sorry I had to replace V7 since he's a veteran and I'm not.
Anyway, luckily for me I've been actually actively keeping track and up to date on this thread so I'll throw in my lynch vote/election vote explanation here.
Lynch Vote: Drazerk I was inclined to believe him in the beginning when he posted his semi-town aligned proposal and outed himself as a third party. However several of you took a hardline stance against him which basically shot any chance of cooperation down the drain, now he's actively anti-town and since this is D1 we don't have a better choice at this point and it's going to take 16 votes for a successful lynch which is going to be hard enough. If he's lying about giving his items away (which is against his win-con) then we at least we get a chance as town to pick up his items by lynching him. Of course Mafia and Sleeper Cells will also try and sheep the vote to pick up any items so we will be able to get information later on in the game by seeing who voted Drazerk and who ended up being town aligned or not.
All of his claims at this point have been to stay alive and fulfill his win-con of killing Gandalf who is most likely town, so his win-con is ultimately anti-town but not to the entire detriment of town if he allied with us. My personal opinion if I could have contributed earlier would to have let him go for now as a target since he has no idea who Gandalf is at the start and we could at least direct his actions to be pro-town while possibly killing him later with a vig shot. Now it's too late and there is no better candidate other than lynching a lurker, when someone stated that we don't lose anything as town by lynching Drazerk since he is 3rd party and non-town aligned as well. There is also the problem that Drazerk pretty much outed Kenpachi depending on if you actually believe his portal gun claim + his assumption that Chell is in the game and town aligned (I personally think there probably is a Chell, and if there is, it probably would be a town aligned role)
Election Vote: Blazinghand I feel like we're assuming too much on the role of Wheatley. Whether he goes bad or not, we have no idea what his power actually is yet, and I'd feel better actually giving it to a stronger player than giving it to a newer player. What's the point of transparency when you don't even know how good the power is? I'd rather a good player try and lie and keep the power a secret if it's very powerful and good for town than let a newer player try and do the same thing and fail. This is also based on the reputation I've heard of Blazinghand of him as a good player in previous games (except for that Radfield lynch, wow that was hilarious to read)
Final thoughts: The more important aspect in this game is not just defining what we're up against as town (how many factions, 3rd parties etc) but the items that are floating around. Items are probably going to make or break town depending on who is dumb and gives theirs away to non-townies (hint: Kenpachi giving his item away to Drazerk)
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Oh, this is for gonzaw whenever he gets around to reading this. Please stop spamming the thread with multiple questions to multiple people with little to no benefit to town from their responses. I get that you're trying to deny lurking, but it's fairly obvious to see just by checking people's filters and having very active town (which we already have in plenty) I'm coming in as a replacement and I kept myself up to date on this thread but it was really annoying reading through all your shit to see if any of it was actually useful (not all of it was, I'd say maybe 30% to be generous)
You're running the risk of being almost detrimental to town by burying all your decent points in too long posts, as well as lowering your credibility since people will start to dislike you because of this posting behavior. There is also the alternate case that you are scum trying to hide by over posting and defending yourself when under suspicion by pointing to your "active" behavior.
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Gonzaw, since you're around, do you have a specific question you want me to answer? You put me in your post but you don't say what you want from me. If you want a general read on everyone, I came in late as a replacement and I didn't have any interaction with anyone to build reads on. Also do you realize that there are 29 other people still playing this game?
Also why should Drazerk be banned? He wasn't playing against his win-con, he wins with any faction, he just needs to have another 3rd party dead first. I believe his reasoning on shooting VE as a strong player, and everything else snowballed because he claimed when he didn't have to.
Do you want the easy cases? How hard is it to point out the other lurkers and say "look at them" Dirk, Kita, CC, Sinani, etc. Do you really think putting pressure on me wouldn't be easily deflected by pointing to the other lurkers? If you compare my posts to theirs you can at least see I've contributed with longer responses then one sentence.
Here are my opinions on some controversial people:
My opinion now is that Velinath is now a huge danger to town. We now we have possible evidence from Drazerk's claims that Velinath could be a 3rd party along with his Wheatley ability. Yes Drazerk lied about many things, but he also didn't lie about other parts. What possible motive would he have to have to initiate the election for Velinath and then do a 180 and say "don't vote for him he's a 3rd party" if he didn't run his DT check and it came back great power on Velinath? So based on this, 3rd parties can win with any faction, why does Velinath have to stay town-aligned? He doesn't, and he's a item factory that we cannot control.
Foolishness is funny to read, the fact that he's doing the rhyming scheme that's not part of his roleclaim and getting points from the mods doesn't really mean anything anti-town. He's still posting things that are not hard to understand and if you read them, he was advocating not listening to Drazerk and just moving on, which is pro-town in my book (Gonzaw you even said you didn't want everyone dragging out the Drazerk issue earlier in the thread)
Regarding you Gonzaw, do you not fear for your life by being the most active poster? If you keep asking everyone questions and you are personally keeping track of everyone, why wouldn't you be the first one killed this night? Do you think scum have already found out blue roles, I don't think so. If you are town, you should back off and not present yourself as a target with your activity. If you are scum, you would just keep posting because you know you won't be a target. Do you have any response to this logic?
Is there anything else you would like me to comment on while I'm around? You aren't being very specific and I have no interest in trying to post my reads on 29 people, sorry.
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Velinath: Are you allowed to use the items you create yourself? Are you allowed to make them and give them away at the same time?
If you can't use the items you yourself make, you are at best a liability to town because how are you going to give them away to 100% confirmed town people? How would we prove this as town when you could just be giving them to scum all along either knowingly or unknowingly. Why should we not get rid of you ourselves before you give up useful items to the wrong people?
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Does anyone else see Wheatley's ability as a huge potential threat to town in the wrong hands? Or am I alone in this line of thinking. It seems like this game is going to revolve around items since everyone is asking for some sort of item and everyone possibly started with at least 1.
Whats with the lemons Grackaroni?
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For gonzaw: I have null reads at this point towards Lanaia and Zephridd based on their filters to this point. I don't see any pro-town behavior, they are mostly just sheeping other peoples thoughts (electing BH, which I also agreed/voted for). I also don't have any reason to assume they are scum at this point either.
I see Zephridd's case against paperscraps more of paperscraps acting like a noob town more than paperscraps being a real scum.
Lanaia is calling out Kenpachi who I also am concerned with, Kenpachi hasn't posted anything useful except for asking for votes for GladOs, and he traded an item to Drazerk for a vote when the GladOs vote wasn't even close to being close to majority and passing. No reason to have traded an item that early especially to a claimed 3rd party, pretty anti-town.
I already posted my opinions on the two people I find interesting, Velinath and Foolishness. I feel I have cooperated with you enough for now, I'm going to sleep.
Velinath I know you're waiting on confirmation on mods, but make sure to answer my questions as well as the others, thanks.
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On March 19 2012 19:46 phagga wrote:The following paragraph bothers me greatly: Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 09:15 willz22912 wrote:
Regarding you Gonzaw, do you not fear for your life by being the most active poster? If you keep asking everyone questions and you are personally keeping track of everyone, why wouldn't you be the first one killed this night? Do you think scum have already found out blue roles, I don't think so. If you are town, you should back off and not present yourself as a target with your activity. If you are scum, you would just keep posting because you know you won't be a target. Do you have any response to this logic?
This does not make any sense. You imply that he is an asset to town, then say he should stop contributing because if he keeps contributing that makes him mafia? Wasn't it supposed to be the other way round? Also, Is it not in the interest of town that greenies present themself as possible night targets to avoid that the blues get hit? Are you rolefishing?
What do you find wrong with the implied line of questioning? It was pretty much a noob(me) asking a more experienced person why they're doing what they're doing. I really didn't see the point of being one of the most active posters and trying to keep track of everything yourself and then risking getting killed before you can release that information to the rest of the town making your efforts pointless.
He answered that it's better not to play sub-optimally in fear of your mortality when you could put forth the maximum effort to help the town. This answered my question and made me try and follow that advice, so I'm trying to be more active as well with posting my thoughts.
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Just to clarify Velinath, I don't know if you ever said so I'll ask again, are you allowed to use items yourself or can you only give them away to people to use?
Also, wow, I just got caught up with everything, so many deaths in 1 night, and almost all of the active posters/strong players.
For viable lynch targets: There's too many to count since we have so many lurker types, myself included. If someone makes a compelling case on a particular lurker I may sheep that vote, but I'd prefer to vote Kenpachi today.
My view on Kenpachi, either he's mafia/sleeper faction or he's a third party. None of his posts have been anywhere near about helping town except for his claim about GlaDos (which actually hurts town with all the stupid discussion about it). Not worth keeping alive, all he will do is be a distraction to town.
Will post more stuff when I can, pretty busy with class as well. If you don't think I'm being useful enough to town, feel free to vig me just like every other lurker! (This is a joke /sarcasm)
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I have to leave for class and I won't be back until 1 hour before rollover. Leaving my vote on Kenpachi for now since I still think he brings no benefit to town even as a third party. He is also sidetracking any meaningful discussion with getting other people involved with "voting GlaDos" without any real explanation. I was already concerned about Velinath but now he in his role as Wheatley also is trying to make us go along with voting GlaDos. I still want to get rid of Kenpachi for this behavior and his seeming influence over Velinath.
For these the top two cases, we all knew Dirk was a smurf of someone probably experienced, I have to wonder how you don't notice when you're logged into a different account but okay I'll take your word for it. Something to think about is that he lets slip his real identity when the pressure is on him... Then you have to remember that Foolishness picked Dirk out of all the lurkers to post against. Dirk/Palmar is by no means town in my mind yet.
Wiggles is trying to push a case on ghost at the same time, we have too many options to choose, we have to consolidate and make sure a successful lynch goes off on someone. For now the voting seems split between Bluelightz/Dirk(Palmar) with me and Zephridd still trying to get rid of Kenpachi and Wiggles voting ghost. Too many wasted votes here, if it's between Bluelightz and Dirk I agree that Bluelightz is the more scummier of the two from reading everyone elses cases and I would trust Dirk/Palmar as town for now but he needs to take charge of the town like he did in JubJub. I'm not gonna sheep the Bluelightz vote until I get a chance to see how he responds when I get back from class.
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Hammering Bluelightz. Hasn't responded at all even though there's so many people against him, he's given up, even if he is town it's not a bad lynch because he hasn't been productive.
For those people who think Kenpachi is 3rd party but town aligned, are you willing to continue to let him live? We won't have a chance to lynch him past D3 because we'll be too busy going after real scum. I'd prefer a vig shot if at all available, if anyone runs into a lemon give it Grackaroni I guess. Has he also done anything near pro town except pop in every now and then and post random things?
##Vote: Bluelightz
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I played with Sbrubbles in newbie mini mafia V and he was a medic and blueslipped there, I don't see anything encouraging with his play in this game. The late votes on already dead people make him look really shady and he hasn't contributed like others have stated. I would be okay with a Sbrubbles lynch today unless something big happens with the Wiggles case.
RE: Companion Cube. I assume it was obtained from the Black Market since velinath posted this soon after the CC showed up.
On March 22 2012 09:03 Velinath wrote:
Companion Cube is an unlynchable smurf of someone else in the thread with no voting power.
If Velinath hasn't bought it (he hasn't claimed to) then we can safely assume that it is someone from the scum/sleeper faction simply based on the nature of the "Black Market." The fact that the cube who is supposed to be unkillable smurf is trying to implicate kitaman27 is unsettling, but I would ignore anything it says no matter how cute it is. The cake is a lie.
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EBWOP: I thought the cube was unkillable but apparently it's only unlynchable but why would waste a vig shot on a smurf, so yeah, just going to be disinformation from the CC.
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I really liked the complexity and the setup of the game, thanks to the hosts for creating a really fun game to read/play through.
For criticism/comments on the Grey Fox role, it's pretty interesting but it seems hard to actively use well. You're not allowed to use items yourself so you have to try and give good items you get to other town people, but you can't give anyone items if they're already holding one, unless you were allowed to give items in the day as a regular "give" and reverse pickpocket was a special extra night action. You had access to the Black Market but had nothing really worth offering to sell unless you outed your role abilities and sold them which could have lead to a mis-lynch since it seemed like an anti-town role(stealing items) I think the role might have been more stronger if like you said everyone had a portal gun in the original setup, you'd be able to deny certain players the ability to travel around by stealing their guns, but the items left in the game were pretty worthless except for maybe the lemons, the kp items and the destabilization engine. Even if I had stayed alive to steal inventions from Nisani, I don't think I would have been able to steal them before he passed them due to the priority system of actions, (giving items takes precedence before other actions?)
I obviously got friendly-fired by kita N2 cause I was checking Dirk to see if he was killing people by seeing what items he had the same night he got lit up, but I don't think I could have done more besides giving town another informer to the Black Market and trying to track down which faction bought which items.
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EPT
