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[G] PvZ – FFE into 4 Gate +1 Zealot Pressure

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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-VoidRay-
Profile Joined December 2011
57 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-07 18:27:06
February 07 2012 18:20 GMT
#1
[G] PvZ – FFE into 4 Gate +1 Zealot Pressure

[image loading]

Introduction:

+ Show Spoiler +
Hey TL, my name is Charlie, aka Voidray and I'm a mid/high master protoss player in Clan RH. I'm very excited to present my newest guide on PvZ and I'd like thank you all for viewing! For the most part, forge-fast expand or nexus first builds have become the standard in PvZ, and zergs have responded by taking a very fast 3rd base. This allows them to power drones, securing the economy to produce insane amount of roaches, lings, and mutas. As a result of how strong a fast third can be for zerg, protoss players are finding new ways to pressure after a forge FE. For example, some players go FFE into Voidrays or DTs in an attempt to kill of the zerg's 3rd hatchery. It's clear that protoss has to do some 2base pressure to stay even, and today I will be sharing a build with you that is not only great for applying pressure but gives you dozens of ways to transition out of it. This build is by no means “new” but I think it is one that every Protoss player should have in their back pocket! I personally use this build between 50-70% of my games as the initial damage and ability to transition out is for lack of a better term, good.


Stream Tutorial:

+ Show Spoiler +
Here is a short stream tutorial on this style, analyzing two replays and giving an overview of the opening as well as possible transitions: http://www.twitch.tv/tangsc/b/307763075


Concept:

+ Show Spoiler +
Lets face it guys, if you don’t apply any sort of pressure to a Zerg they will simply drone up to 70 and take 5 bases to your two or three. This is obviously not an ideal situation in any match up against a zerg. So, how do we stop it? Simple, we pressure them. This build is designed to hit right before roaches which means the only thing (initially) they will be defending with is zerglings. I’m not sure if you have heard, but +1 zealots obliterate zerglings. Because of this timing, if they go for a third, I would give you a 50+% chance to snipe their third. (I will talk a little bit more about the actual attack and how to execute it a little later in the guide )

Even if you don’t snipe their third you are in a very good position as the zerg was forced to make a lot of unwanted units which in turn means less drones. If the Zerg didn’t go for a third (which through scouting you should know already) you should actually be able to apply a great deal of pressure into the natural. The only exception to this is if they are going some sort of 2 base mutta and spine crawler themselves in to prevent such attacks. Well, in this case, have no fear your push was not for nothing my friend. You now know you are dealing with some sort of tech build and or muta which means you need to respond appropriately. This attack not only scouts but usually does a considerable amount of damage and that’s what makes it so deadly.


Execution:

+ Show Spoiler +
In executing the pressure at your opponent's third, you are obviously going to NEED a proxy pylon. We all know that those pesky 2-4 lings can deny a lot of probe scouting so that’s why my first 1-3 units are zealots as soon as my gateway is finished. I very quickly establish map control which creates an opening for a probe to proxy a pylon somewhere. If you have 2-3 zealots, the only way that a zerg can get map control is by producing more lings which again, they don’t want to be doing so even if that happens and you lose a zealot or 2, its fine, they could have been building much needed drones. As for the execution, you want to gather all your non-warped in zealots by your proxy pylon so anywhere from 1-3 (depending if any where sniped off or died due to scouting purposes) and then immediate warp in 4 zealots. Here is what you might see:

1) Literally 0 units. – your response to this is to target fire the third and keep warping in zealots until you're certain the 3rd can be destroyed.

2) Zerglings, no roaches – If you see this, kite with your 4-6 initial zealots until you get another warp in of 4. Then essentially A move into the third and once all the zerglings are gone target fire the hatch. The reason you target fire the hatch is because generally roaches will be on their way if not running over to save the third. DO NOT ATTACK THE ROACHES. Your main mission is to kill that third. Yes, your zealots will die but if you snipe that hatch you are ahead. (do not warp in more than 3 rounds of zealots, if you do you will be very vulnerable to the common roach counter)

3) Early roaches – If you see early roaches, your build was either scouted or they did a safe/aggressive build. You won’t be able to proceed so simply back up and warp in sentries at home asap.


Transitions:

+ Show Spoiler +
The most important part of the execution is to know how and when to transition out of it. What you have to be thinking is this, “what is the bare minimum of zealot warp ins will it take to snipe that hatchery.” Once you realize that either A. your not going to be able to snipe it or B. You will be able to snipe it (which for both should be 2 or 3 warpins of zealots) your next warp-in, in almost every circumstance, should be 4 sentries. You will have a lot of gas which is fine because you are going to need it to make tech decisions. It will allow you to fend off pretty much any pressure that comes your way assuming you get a nice warp in of 4 stalkers after. But the real trouble is where you go from here...

Well, it all depends on what you want to do. As you proceed with your first warp in you should also snag your 3rd and 4th gases. You will be banking quite a bit of minerals and gas depending on how tightly you pulled off the build. You will have anywhere from 400-1000 minerals and around 300-700 gas. This is completely normal. This is what makes the build so flexible. Keep in mind that you will need to spend this money and gas quickly so right after your 4 sentries you need to make your decisions. Personally if I snipe the third hatchery I always throw down a quick twilight for fear of 2 base muta. What you can do to be safe is throw down twilight, a robo and 2-3 gates. That will essentially rid you of your money, get you tech and assuming you keep warping in stalkers, your gas. This is your very standard safe response which would be gearing you up to take a third.

Other options include going quick DT into a DT Blink Archon 2 base, 2 base robo colossi, and a whole variety of options. Essentially the possibilities are endless and that’s the beauty. Personally, unless I scout mutta, I like to go for a quick colossus into a third and simply defend are reap the benefits of sniping his hatch or even just forcing units. 3 Base Protoss is strong and that’s where I like to be in most of my games. But again, it is up to your style!


Sample Build Order:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Everyone has their own way of doing a FFE, so the supply may not line up 100% but the most important thing to is keep the same general steps and pay attention to chronoboost/timings. I'm just going to provide a generic example for those who haven't found their personal preference:
9Pylon
15Forge
18Nexus->Cannon->Pylon->Double Gas->Gateway (*Note some players prefer gateway before gas)
Keep chrono boosting probes non-stop
27/36 – Cybernetics Core (When gateway finishes)
After you lay down your cyber, start saving chrono boost.
29/36 - Zealot
31-33 – pylon
37/44 – Second zealot, +1 Attack and Warpgate (chrono warpgate and +1 only from here on out until they finish)
40/44 – 3 more gates followed by a pylon as well as your proxy pylon! If you don’t get your proxy down in time it will take too long for your zealots to get there to do much damage!
*Remember, keep chrono boosting your +1 and WG so they finish at around the same time. This is a timing so if it’s too late, roaches will probably be there to stop it
42/44 – Zealot or Stalker (stalker if there is ovi to kill)
Keep in mind you should never really be cutting probes or you will have a huge bank of money
Your WG and +1 should finish between 815-830. After that, simply gather your zealots and warp in 4 more. I usually use my remaining chrono on my warpgates to get 4 more out as soon as possible.
During your first warp in, take your 3rd and 4th gases and prepare to transition. That’s really it!!


VoidRayRH:

+ Show Spoiler +
Thank you all once again for reading, please follow us at www.Twitch.tv/TangSC for more tutorials, ladder commentary, and replay analysis!

Also, if you have a reddit account please upvote the guide on reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/peys4/protoss_guide_to_pressuring_the_zerg_3rd_base_ffe/

I appreciate your support <3

Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
February 07 2012 18:37 GMT
#2
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.
Moderator
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
February 07 2012 18:56 GMT
#3
it's a strong build but as NrGmonk already said, it's been covered before.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287970
"See you space cowboy"
Zath.erin
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada429 Posts
February 07 2012 18:59 GMT
#4
Yeah this has been a pretty standard pressure opening for months now.
I put my pants on just like the rest of you - one leg at a time. Except once my pants are on, i make gold records!
PrinceVegeta
Profile Joined February 2011
United States118 Posts
February 07 2012 19:02 GMT
#5
This guide fails in compassion to Alej's guide. Also every high level zerg and their grandmother knows how to deal with this.
Berailfor
Profile Joined January 2012
441 Posts
February 07 2012 19:35 GMT
#6
Yeah I was about to say... Hmmm doesn't everyone already know all about this build? Before I even opened the thread. Didn't realize there was already another nice guide for it though thanks for the link.
Tenox
Profile Joined January 2007
Sweden128 Posts
February 07 2012 19:41 GMT
#7
Well structured and informative post, appreciate the effort! But yeah seems like it's already been covered.
Please check out my gallery at: 10ox.deviantart.com
-VoidRay-
Profile Joined December 2011
57 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-07 20:28:58
February 07 2012 19:47 GMT
#8
Thanks for the criticism but I wanted to detail my experiences with this style. I thought I would very simply create this guide to not only show the build but how to execute it which is what I showed in my VOD. There is useful information to take away from this.
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-07 20:05:23
February 07 2012 20:05 GMT
#9
On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.

While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Harmonized
Profile Joined August 2010
57 Posts
February 07 2012 20:10 GMT
#10
Been covered before but nonetheless you brought up a lot of good points and you made it really easy to understand

I like it
doner0
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States233 Posts
February 07 2012 20:25 GMT
#11
HOLY SHIT! this is probably the best guide i have seen on this so far. Great job!
nath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1788 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-07 20:26:02
February 07 2012 20:25 GMT
#12
On February 08 2012 05:05 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.

While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.



OP's Signature:
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
Founder of Flow Enterprises, LLC http://flow-enterprises.com/
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-07 20:29:48
February 07 2012 20:28 GMT
#13
On February 08 2012 05:25 nath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 05:05 TangSC wrote:
On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.

While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.



Show nested quote +
OP's Signature:
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!



My thoughts exactly.

Two guides on the same build clutter the strat forum. The old one is not outdated nor is the new one better.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 07 2012 20:31 GMT
#14
Nath, it's not at all a secret that Voidray and I are friends who work together lol I think the TL community is smart enough to decipher that without your help.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
February 07 2012 20:44 GMT
#15
On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.

Yeah, but more guides isn't a bad thing imo. The more content the better. Thanks Voidray man and Tang dood for another article!
HelloSon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
February 07 2012 20:48 GMT
#16
What time does the Zerg usually build roach warren/evo chamber to defend this? I usually start around 7:00.
yo
SC2ShoWTimE
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany722 Posts
February 07 2012 20:50 GMT
#17
On February 08 2012 05:48 HelloSon wrote:
What time does the Zerg usually build roach warren/evo chamber to defend this? I usually start around 7:00.


7:00 is fine. i think stephano usually builds them at 7:20.
Progamer
-VoidRay-
Profile Joined December 2011
57 Posts
February 07 2012 20:51 GMT
#18
@HelloSon there are different times but in my experience, there is a timing window as P that allows at least the first 4 zealots from your warp-in to attack roach free. Usually at this point roaches are "on there way" but not quite out yet. This allows you to warp in another round and target fire the hatchery.
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
Gool
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina204 Posts
February 07 2012 20:54 GMT
#19
Nice guide, you should add that you could use your first 2 zealots(5:30-6:00) to damage the hatchery, most of the time you can get it down to 50% hp, which will greatly increase your chances of killing it when you push with the +1 4g.
-VoidRay-
Profile Joined December 2011
57 Posts
February 07 2012 20:57 GMT
#20
@VanGool - I thought I might have mentioned that but I guess not ^^ Yeah, I usually send my first zealot to scout out the third and then try to pool the rest so I have a nice 6-7 zealot entrance into his third instead of just 4. I usually take both watch towers after my first initial scouting zealot dies and call it a day until my attack is ready but yes, you definitely can do some major damage!
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
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