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[G] PvZ – FFE into 4 Gate +1 Zealot Pressure
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZJzOW.jpg)
Introduction:
+ Show Spoiler +Hey TL, my name is Charlie, aka Voidray and I'm a mid/high master protoss player in Clan RH. I'm very excited to present my newest guide on PvZ and I'd like thank you all for viewing! For the most part, forge-fast expand or nexus first builds have become the standard in PvZ, and zergs have responded by taking a very fast 3rd base. This allows them to power drones, securing the economy to produce insane amount of roaches, lings, and mutas. As a result of how strong a fast third can be for zerg, protoss players are finding new ways to pressure after a forge FE. For example, some players go FFE into Voidrays or DTs in an attempt to kill of the zerg's 3rd hatchery. It's clear that protoss has to do some 2base pressure to stay even, and today I will be sharing a build with you that is not only great for applying pressure but gives you dozens of ways to transition out of it. This build is by no means “new” but I think it is one that every Protoss player should have in their back pocket! I personally use this build between 50-70% of my games as the initial damage and ability to transition out is for lack of a better term, good.
Stream Tutorial:
+ Show Spoiler +
Concept:
+ Show Spoiler +Lets face it guys, if you don’t apply any sort of pressure to a Zerg they will simply drone up to 70 and take 5 bases to your two or three. This is obviously not an ideal situation in any match up against a zerg. So, how do we stop it? Simple, we pressure them. This build is designed to hit right before roaches which means the only thing (initially) they will be defending with is zerglings. I’m not sure if you have heard, but +1 zealots obliterate zerglings. Because of this timing, if they go for a third, I would give you a 50+% chance to snipe their third. (I will talk a little bit more about the actual attack and how to execute it a little later in the guide )
Even if you don’t snipe their third you are in a very good position as the zerg was forced to make a lot of unwanted units which in turn means less drones. If the Zerg didn’t go for a third (which through scouting you should know already) you should actually be able to apply a great deal of pressure into the natural. The only exception to this is if they are going some sort of 2 base mutta and spine crawler themselves in to prevent such attacks. Well, in this case, have no fear your push was not for nothing my friend. You now know you are dealing with some sort of tech build and or muta which means you need to respond appropriately. This attack not only scouts but usually does a considerable amount of damage and that’s what makes it so deadly.
Execution:
+ Show Spoiler +In executing the pressure at your opponent's third, you are obviously going to NEED a proxy pylon. We all know that those pesky 2-4 lings can deny a lot of probe scouting so that’s why my first 1-3 units are zealots as soon as my gateway is finished. I very quickly establish map control which creates an opening for a probe to proxy a pylon somewhere. If you have 2-3 zealots, the only way that a zerg can get map control is by producing more lings which again, they don’t want to be doing so even if that happens and you lose a zealot or 2, its fine, they could have been building much needed drones. As for the execution, you want to gather all your non-warped in zealots by your proxy pylon so anywhere from 1-3 (depending if any where sniped off or died due to scouting purposes) and then immediate warp in 4 zealots. Here is what you might see:
1) Literally 0 units. – your response to this is to target fire the third and keep warping in zealots until you're certain the 3rd can be destroyed.
2) Zerglings, no roaches – If you see this, kite with your 4-6 initial zealots until you get another warp in of 4. Then essentially A move into the third and once all the zerglings are gone target fire the hatch. The reason you target fire the hatch is because generally roaches will be on their way if not running over to save the third. DO NOT ATTACK THE ROACHES. Your main mission is to kill that third. Yes, your zealots will die but if you snipe that hatch you are ahead. (do not warp in more than 3 rounds of zealots, if you do you will be very vulnerable to the common roach counter)
3) Early roaches – If you see early roaches, your build was either scouted or they did a safe/aggressive build. You won’t be able to proceed so simply back up and warp in sentries at home asap.
Transitions:
+ Show Spoiler +The most important part of the execution is to know how and when to transition out of it. What you have to be thinking is this, “what is the bare minimum of zealot warp ins will it take to snipe that hatchery.” Once you realize that either A. your not going to be able to snipe it or B. You will be able to snipe it (which for both should be 2 or 3 warpins of zealots) your next warp-in, in almost every circumstance, should be 4 sentries. You will have a lot of gas which is fine because you are going to need it to make tech decisions. It will allow you to fend off pretty much any pressure that comes your way assuming you get a nice warp in of 4 stalkers after. But the real trouble is where you go from here...
Well, it all depends on what you want to do. As you proceed with your first warp in you should also snag your 3rd and 4th gases. You will be banking quite a bit of minerals and gas depending on how tightly you pulled off the build. You will have anywhere from 400-1000 minerals and around 300-700 gas. This is completely normal. This is what makes the build so flexible. Keep in mind that you will need to spend this money and gas quickly so right after your 4 sentries you need to make your decisions. Personally if I snipe the third hatchery I always throw down a quick twilight for fear of 2 base muta. What you can do to be safe is throw down twilight, a robo and 2-3 gates. That will essentially rid you of your money, get you tech and assuming you keep warping in stalkers, your gas. This is your very standard safe response which would be gearing you up to take a third.
Other options include going quick DT into a DT Blink Archon 2 base, 2 base robo colossi, and a whole variety of options. Essentially the possibilities are endless and that’s the beauty. Personally, unless I scout mutta, I like to go for a quick colossus into a third and simply defend are reap the benefits of sniping his hatch or even just forcing units. 3 Base Protoss is strong and that’s where I like to be in most of my games. But again, it is up to your style!
Sample Build Order:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qRBIC.jpg) Everyone has their own way of doing a FFE, so the supply may not line up 100% but the most important thing to is keep the same general steps and pay attention to chronoboost/timings. I'm just going to provide a generic example for those who haven't found their personal preference: 9Pylon 15Forge 18Nexus->Cannon->Pylon->Double Gas->Gateway (*Note some players prefer gateway before gas) Keep chrono boosting probes non-stop 27/36 – Cybernetics Core (When gateway finishes) After you lay down your cyber, start saving chrono boost. 29/36 - Zealot 31-33 – pylon 37/44 – Second zealot, +1 Attack and Warpgate (chrono warpgate and +1 only from here on out until they finish) 40/44 – 3 more gates followed by a pylon as well as your proxy pylon! If you don’t get your proxy down in time it will take too long for your zealots to get there to do much damage! *Remember, keep chrono boosting your +1 and WG so they finish at around the same time. This is a timing so if it’s too late, roaches will probably be there to stop it 42/44 – Zealot or Stalker (stalker if there is ovi to kill) Keep in mind you should never really be cutting probes or you will have a huge bank of money Your WG and +1 should finish between 815-830. After that, simply gather your zealots and warp in 4 more. I usually use my remaining chrono on my warpgates to get 4 more out as soon as possible. During your first warp in, take your 3rd and 4th gases and prepare to transition. That’s really it!!
VoidRayRH:
+ Show Spoiler +
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United States8476 Posts
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.
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Yeah this has been a pretty standard pressure opening for months now.
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This guide fails in compassion to Alej's guide. Also every high level zerg and their grandmother knows how to deal with this.
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Yeah I was about to say... Hmmm doesn't everyone already know all about this build? Before I even opened the thread. Didn't realize there was already another nice guide for it though thanks for the link.
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Well structured and informative post, appreciate the effort! But yeah seems like it's already been covered. 
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Thanks for the criticism but I wanted to detail my experiences with this style. I thought I would very simply create this guide to not only show the build but how to execute it which is what I showed in my VOD. There is useful information to take away from this.
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On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.
While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.
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Been covered before but nonetheless you brought up a lot of good points and you made it really easy to understand
I like it 
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HOLY SHIT! this is probably the best guide i have seen on this so far. Great job!
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On February 08 2012 05:05 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this. While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.
OP's Signature: Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
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On February 08 2012 05:25 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:05 TangSC wrote:On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this. While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.
My thoughts exactly.
Two guides on the same build clutter the strat forum. The old one is not outdated nor is the new one better.
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Nath, it's not at all a secret that Voidray and I are friends who work together lol I think the TL community is smart enough to decipher that without your help.
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On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.
Yeah, but more guides isn't a bad thing imo. The more content the better. Thanks Voidray man and Tang dood for another article!
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What time does the Zerg usually build roach warren/evo chamber to defend this? I usually start around 7:00.
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On February 08 2012 05:48 HelloSon wrote:
What time does the Zerg usually build roach warren/evo chamber to defend this? I usually start around 7:00.
7:00 is fine. i think stephano usually builds them at 7:20.
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@HelloSon there are different times but in my experience, there is a timing window as P that allows at least the first 4 zealots from your warp-in to attack roach free. Usually at this point roaches are "on there way" but not quite out yet. This allows you to warp in another round and target fire the hatchery.
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Nice guide, you should add that you could use your first 2 zealots(5:30-6:00) to damage the hatchery, most of the time you can get it down to 50% hp, which will greatly increase your chances of killing it when you push with the +1 4g.
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@VanGool - I thought I might have mentioned that but I guess not ^^ Yeah, I usually send my first zealot to scout out the third and then try to pool the rest so I have a nice 6-7 zealot entrance into his third instead of just 4. I usually take both watch towers after my first initial scouting zealot dies and call it a day until my attack is ready but yes, you definitely can do some major damage!
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Can anyone tell me a good way to hold off the zealot pressure if I can't find the probe? Too often, I lose because my roaches are on the way and they target the hatch down. I get my evo and roach warren at 7:00.
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On February 08 2012 06:16 CreepyNA wrote:
Can anyone tell me a good way to hold off the zealot pressure if I can't find the probe? Too often, I lose because my roaches are on the way and they target the hatch down. I get my evo and roach warren at 7:00.
If you don't find the probe then you are going to be extremely hard pressed to hold off the pressure without initial roaches. If you quickly spread creep to your third you can use queens to help delay the zealots whilst you get roaches out.
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One thing I like to do with this build is go for a fast double Stargate transition, if I kill or almost kill the third. Off 2 base, the zerg doesn't have the flexibility of choosing to react with multiple tech paths, and hence will quickly choose his tech after losing the third. Very very rarely would a zerg choose to go fast Hydralisks after losing his third, almost never, so you can be pretty sure the zerg will go for some sort of 2 base roach or 2 base mutalisk follow up after losing their third.
You can get 2 void rays out and easily snipe the third if you didn't get it before (assuming your stargates go unscouted, so make sure they go unscouted! and given how much you delayed the zerg you could potentially kill it even if they are scouted. Then, against roach, you can go up to a good 8 void rays and control the map against any sort of roach pressure whilst getting a third and teching to colossus, or you can pump a bunch of phoenix to hard counter any 2 base mutalisk (or potentially infestor) builds.
Here is a replay of the 2 stargate follow up off +1 zealot pressure. I didn't even execute it fairly well but I was able to control the map a lot.
www.tazerenix.com/replays/73
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I think this guide is fairly different than alej's certainly enough to justify its existence
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No offense to the Alejandrisha's guide which has a lot of details, but I find this guide much more clear... possibly because it goes to the heart of the build as opposed to concentrating on all the branches. The branches are important, but to have a clear idea of what you would like to go for counts for a lot. In other words, the older guide doesn't appear to have an obvious core goal when you first look at it. Anyway, both guides are nice, thx.
And whatever happened to the rule about not putting everything in spoilers...?
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United States8476 Posts
On February 08 2012 05:05 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this. While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.
I'm just suggesting he could have spent his time doing something more useful, possibly write a non-overlapping guide if he checked beforehand.
On February 08 2012 06:16 CreepyNA wrote:
Can anyone tell me a good way to hold off the zealot pressure if I can't find the probe? Too often, I lose because my roaches are on the way and they target the hatch down. I get my evo and roach warren at 7:00.
Make sure you manually make roaches out of your 3rd instead of from all your hatches.
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I see what you're saying, Ive had the most experience with this style because I play pretty standard PvZ - but I am working on a different build that hasn't been covered yet.
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Alej`s guide is significantly more complete and based on pro sources.
Please keep in mind that I am not saying this for the sake of annoying the author (any effort for helping the community is welcomed, after all). I just want to make sure that anyone that finds this thread will also look at the other thread as well or they will miss important information when doing this opening/style.
Also, make sure you are not violating TL`s policy about self-advertising: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117332
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United States8476 Posts
On February 08 2012 08:42 VoidRayRH wrote:
Monk, I understand you think that this guide may not have been a great use of my time but I honestly believe that my time WAS spent doing something useful and believe that this guide has helped out my fellow Protoss players greatly. Yes maybe there is another guide out there but I'm simply trying to help?
If you think you spent your time well, then you shouldn't care what other people think =P.
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On February 08 2012 08:57 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 08:42 VoidRayRH wrote:
Monk, I understand you think that this guide may not have been a great use of my time but I honestly believe that my time WAS spent doing something useful and believe that this guide has helped out my fellow Protoss players greatly. Yes maybe there is another guide out there but I'm simply trying to help? If you think you spent your time well, then you shouldn't care what other people think =P.
haha true, i'll make sure next guide is on something new ^^
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I tried this on pratice games and it worked really well!
Thank you for the guide.
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You could do the 4 gate +1 pressure using YufFE: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Gate_Nexus_YufFE
I have succeeded to start warping zealots at 7:13 at my best timing. which means 6 zealots with +1 already at 7:15. That's a minute earlier than a 4 gate +1 off a FFE, and usually he won't have roaches in time to defend. If you want, I could post some replays of how it's done.
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@Adonminus - I have seen this work as well but I feel like establishing a great income as well as putting on pressure is the way to go. As I have said, I am a Protoss who yearns for 3 base play. I feel that 3 base Protoss is very strong and that is where I try to get to most games. Because of that fact, I don't do too many all ins which means I always like to try to incorporate builds that emphasis economy while still pressuring a Zerg. I have never actually done the YufFE but I have seen it done. It is interesting that it hits that much earlier but I feel safer doing it this way But it is not wrong just different. Thanks for the input!
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Back on the topic of "all zergs know how to defend this", I don't think it's necessarily true. However, I know that if I saw that zealot and/or probe moving across the map I'd kill it before it got to my 3rd with 4-6 speedlings, and I'd never let that proxy probe get to a hiding spot (just with solid zergling patrols). I feel like this pressure gets shut down pretty hard by active scouting / anyone who makes extra slings.
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On February 09 2012 00:27 TangSC wrote:
Back on the topic of "all zergs know how to defend this", I don't think it's necessarily true. However, I know that if I saw that zealot and/or probe moving across the map I'd kill it before it got to my 3rd with 4-6 speedlings, and I'd never let that proxy probe get to a hiding spot (just with solid zergling patrols). I feel like this pressure gets shut down pretty hard by active scouting / anyone who makes extra slings.
It really depends on how many lings you commit to and how many zealots are made. Generally speaking if I clear the tower long enough for a probe to get by, I can usually safely get a proxy pylon up as warpgate tech is finishing. On maps like antiga it's generally really easy to get a proxy set up since the zerg usually doesn't make enough lings to cover areas where a probe can slip by.
Maps like, shakuras and metalopolis are a little more difficult, but even if I clear the tower for only a couple seconds before your batch of speedlings kill my zealot my probe can slip by unnoticed. I can drop like 2/3 pylons near your third and it is unlikely that you would be able to kill them all before my zealots warp in.
For the most part the pylon just needs to be on your side of the map or force out enough speedlings to do economic damage in its own right.
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@TangSC - I actually have had this problem of not being able to get my proxi pylon up, but as crafty as Zergs are at denying, Protoss are just as crafty to get proxi's up! Its just part of the game. Every Protoss assumes that their first or even second probe to hide will be scouted. Good protoss's will find ways of tricking the Zerg's pesky zerglings and get a proxi up. Even in pro matches, Protoss's are usually able to get a proxi up because the truth is, even though the zerg is extremely mobile with lings early game, they don't have map hacks! (I hope ^^) So, with some skill and a little luck, you can get a proxi pylon up even if its not in the most ideal spot.
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This build is solid but i preffer too run with yuffe opener , reason? the extra zealots that u get with yuffe make the difference , those early zeas are very usefull to destroy zergs map control and put your proxy to work. After pressure i usually take robo,prism and 1 set of warpin in sentrys , and begin harras with zealot warp ins.
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@ RRDjhonn - I understand how early zealots can gain you map control but as long as 2 of your first 3 units are zealots, you can usually establish enough map dominance to get a probe out easy.
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On February 08 2012 05:25 doner0 wrote:
HOLY SHIT! this is probably the best guide i have seen on this so far. Great job!
ya i tried this out and it worked perfectly. the zerg player was completely unprepared and i sniped his 3rd. This guide is really simple to use and i learned and awesome strat from it. thanks man! awesome guide!
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On February 08 2012 05:05 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this. While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.
Well said. I found this guide short, sweet, and to the point.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina15 Posts
Great guide, thanks a lot ! Thumbs up !!!
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ffe and yuffe are both strong eco op , at the end each one choose by personal judgment, with ffe you get earlier canon rush and with Yuffe you get earlier units.
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iv been reading tones of time " [G] PvZ HerOic FFE " and is still hard to understand is not very clear when to add gates and when to build zealots . im sorry but this is the best guide for ffe into 4gate +1 timing . !
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On February 09 2012 07:26 xsnac wrote:
iv been reading tones of time " [G] PvZ HerOic FFE " and is still hard to understand is not very clear when to add gates and when to build zealots . im sorry but this is the best guide for ffe into 4gate +1 timing . !
you'd think the 10 replays in the op would have been able to clear that up. weird
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On February 09 2012 07:49 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 07:26 xsnac wrote:
iv been reading tones of time " [G] PvZ HerOic FFE " and is still hard to understand is not very clear when to add gates and when to build zealots . im sorry but this is the best guide for ffe into 4gate +1 timing . ! you'd think the 10 replays in the op would have been able to clear that up. weird
Well it's not like YOU had a full blown STREAM TUTORIAL in your guide. Also the pictures in this one were prettier, maybe if you stopped spending all of your money on hats that you keep sending monk then maybe you could upgrade to a better PC and make better guides Mr low graphics settings.
The more nicer the pictures in a guide the better it ends up being.
Pretty picture make brain hurt less.
Grunt.
User was warned for this post
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On February 09 2012 07:49 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 07:26 xsnac wrote:
iv been reading tones of time " [G] PvZ HerOic FFE " and is still hard to understand is not very clear when to add gates and when to build zealots . im sorry but this is the best guide for ffe into 4gate +1 timing . ! you'd think the 10 replays in the op would have been able to clear that up. weird
LOL you think the average player watches the replays? They are looking for a thing to cut and paste into a build order overlay or to tape to their monitor. The see replays as proof that it works and don't even check them.
Forgive my tone for I am not joking. I say this from experience coaching people for money. They will show me a thread about the build they are doing and then show me a replay of them doing ti and they just have obv never seen a pro level player doing said build. I would see things reactor hellion builds that had no wall off or a banshee rush taht made the bunker in the natural on map like xel naga. The other classic is people doing the build order to the T and then just attacking with everything as soon as the build order ends.
I hope some people that are doing just that read my post and understand how much they are wasting thier time basically practicing a build WRONG when they JUST copy the 'build order.' I would say that was in the top 5 problems I saw in players that were actively trying to better themselves. Copying a BO from a guide without EVER seeing a vod or replay of it in action.
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On February 09 2012 07:49 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 07:26 xsnac wrote:
iv been reading tones of time " [G] PvZ HerOic FFE " and is still hard to understand is not very clear when to add gates and when to build zealots . im sorry but this is the best guide for ffe into 4gate +1 timing . ! you'd think the 10 replays in the op would have been able to clear that up. weird
I think the main thing here is that your guide goes over the openings as far as which style of FE to use in detail and in TEXT for people to read, you then skip over just about everything from ~40 supply - ~80 supply
and you go straight into the general concepts and styles a player should be aiming for in the mid - late game
your guide relies on the replays to cover the mid-sections and actual timings of when to build certain tech/gate structures and warp things in. this is probably because it all varies greatly on the zerg response and changes from game to game.
this guide cover's a very specific timing and focuses on the actual pressure part of the build. I like to think of it as a "magnifying glass" focusing in on a crucial part of the early-mid game.
obviously those who don't always have time to watch each replay or cant access SC2 at all while reading guides will favor this one as its straight forward and can directly applied in game (although perhaps not to maximum effect)
where as yours cover's the entire PvZ early - late game as a whole and gives a broader look as to how to approach the matchup.
bottom line
If people are looking for a quick copy and paste as the kind gentlemen above posted, build that they can use to apply some early game pressure to zerg then do as they please, they can look at this guide.
If they are looking to fine tune and try an entirely tried-tested and true style of pvz with a guide written and displayed from start to finish so that people can truly improve themselves, they will check out yours.
I'm writing this from philosophy class so i may just have my head up my ass here :D
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double post. move along.....
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@ AGIANTSMURF - I get what you are saying 100% and I realize that the majority of people who go out and copy and paste a guide don't do it right ect, ect, but, I also didn't write a guide on "PvZ in general." As you said, my guide is more of a magnifying glass into this build so that if you watch the VOD and if you follow the BO (not even necessarily to a T) you will have success using this build. I have absolutely nothing against Alejandrisha's guide and I actually believe that his goes more in depth which is great, but all I did was make a shorter, more concise version that allowed a player to have a visual as well as textual representation of a build I generally have great success with.
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To be clear, I think againstmurf and I are both saying that both guides are fine and have their places/uses. If I got to pick through my mighty will what guide will get posted next would I have picked this? No probably not. I would have wanted it to be well formatted and presented like this one and based on a real build.
ANYWAYS, move along everyone, talk about the BUILD not the guide as I love reading back and forth about strats!
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I've seen on hero's stream he gets stalkers instead of zealots when facing a Zerg with a late gasm it seems pretty effective bc stalkers are fairly efficient against slow lings when micro'd
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On February 09 2012 15:38 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
I've seen on hero's stream he gets stalkers instead of zealots when facing a Zerg with a late gasm it seems pretty effective bc stalkers are fairly efficient against slow lings when micro'd
Zealots are better against lings in every circumstance, it is most likely because a late gas can be telling of a zerg planning to go into roaches, which stalkers are better against.
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Well thanks for the guide! I dont care if there are multiple guides on the same build. You can always find something new or think of something new when you read something that is put down in other words.
Im still more into doing voidray + zealot pressure. Often with 2-3 voidrays + 2-3 warpins of zealot following up if I feel that the zerg cant handle my pressure that good.
These days they usually follow up with 2-3 base roach + hydra pressure, so I tend to tech to templars (good against mutas too) and can usually secure a quite early third.
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This have already been covered by other guides like the one from alej or the one from kcdc. Also imo this guide is much more inferior and undeep.
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Hi, i'm plat toss. Question here: what is the point of having two gases before gate? Watching your replay i noticed that you have like 300-400 gas at any point of time and you start using it quite late. I fell like instead of that you can throw down gate earlier which will allow you to have wg research earlier. So you kind of trading wg timing for some extra gas which you do not need untill 9 minute mark.
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he safe gas for defensive prop , after push with zea+1 counter roach its very common , you need 300-400 gas for stalker/sentry warping in home.
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I feel like if you take your gases after gate you would still be able to warp in 4 sentries in time.
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@Belerafon - It really comes down to preference. I will sometimes throw down gas before gates or gate before gas. The reason I do gas before gate sometimes is obviously off two base, gas is much more needed and I feel like sacrificing 3-7 seconds for gas I will need much later is actually not a bad idea especially when doing this build where you bank a lot of money and gas to begin with. Also Belerafon is quite right. Roach aggression after is very common and being able to warp in 4 sentries and still have enough gas to use on tech and a warp in of 4 stalkers really helps. I see your point and its valid but I don't think it makes that much of a difference in this build but might in others.
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If you go double stargate and chrono out 4 void rays you can hit with 8 +1 zealots at 9:10ish as well as 4 void rays somewhere else. Extremely powerful build, it crushes pretty much anyone below mid master. (I realize what i am talking about is a completely different build).
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@-Trippin- Yeah haha, it is a different build but same general concept. The beauty of this build is the transitions and the +1 zealot Voidray timing is a strong one but I find it is a little harder to transition out of if major damage isn't done.
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Too zergs that are curious on how to stop this: Poke with lings around the 5:30 mark. Their +1 needs to be started around 5:30-5:45 for this build to work. From there you can react accordingly. Also, you should be throwing down a 7 min Roach Warren for Roaches to be out in time to stop this.
This build is very strong on maps like Antiga, where 2-3 zealot pressure early on lets them get a proxy pylon up in annoying locations, and Tal'Darim where your third is usually far away, so keep that in mind.
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VoidRayRH and TangSC have the exact same post and guide style. I doubt that they "work together" and are probably the same person. 
That being said, yeah, this build has been covered before.
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On February 10 2012 05:08 whitefluff wrote:VoidRayRH and TangSC have the exact same post and guide style. I doubt that they "work together" and are probably the same person.
Lol seriously? http://tangstarcraft.com/?page_id=854
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On February 10 2012 05:08 whitefluff wrote:VoidRayRH and TangSC have the exact same post and guide style. I doubt that they "work together" and are probably the same person.
Yeah besides, if you look at that link, one of us has dashing good looks and the other....^^
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Will you be writing more advanced guides or is the goal to reach out to ~plat/diamond players? As mentioned before this build has been out and about for quite awhile o.o surprised to see a guide on it now...
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@Forbidden17 - I'm currently in the works on some builds that I have created that are geared towards diamond +. These guides will be more in depth and a little harder to execute and probably more map specific. Either way, it is always good to improve on your sc2 repertoire!
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Really great guide! I'll use this whenever I off as P
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Just want to say...I used this build in a custom today and I got WRECKED. He had roaches out in time to shut the zealots down before I could kill the expansion and then I couldn't hold my 3rd against Roach/Ling. How big of a gamble is it to open this type of pressure? It seems like if zerg holds their 3rd, it's an uphill battle.
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On February 14 2012 08:24 TangSC wrote:
Just want to say...I used this build in a custom today and I got WRECKED. He had roaches out in time to shut the zealots down before I could kill the expansion and then I couldn't hold my 3rd against Roach/Ling. How big of a gamble is it to open this type of pressure? It seems like if zerg holds their 3rd, it's an uphill battle.
I suggest open 3 or 4 gate +1 zealot with voidray.
both 3 & 4 gate variants can hit as early as ~8:00. You need to cut probes or zealots for 4gate variant.
Personally I do 4gate variant, cutting probes when I'm putting down my extra 3 gates. I Also get only 2 zealots from my first gate. Resume probes ASAP (usually do-able after you've started your voidray + put gates down)
You should build 2 voidrays. Prior to WG/voidrays being complete, you should send 2 probes for pylons.
One aims to pylon near the Main Cliff (so you can use voidray vision to warp into the zergs main), the other aims to get near the 3rd.
Based on which pylons go up (quite often the one @ the Main Cliff will get spotted by OL + denied), send your VR's.
Best case, both pylons go up, split your voidrays. Warp-in 3 zealots at the main, show them, cb your gates, warp-in 3 at 3rd.
Use the pressure you apply to decide what you want to do (some like 2nd stargate to deter muta's, I prefer TC)
I don't think 4gate +1 zealot is good if scouted. I think adding voidray's is much nicer.
Edit:
- As your push dies off (usually 2 or 3 cycles of warp-ins, or whatever). You should hunt for OL's with your voidrays.
- Based on his lair timing, you can safely roam the map with your voidrays. this greatly deters roach counters.
- I usually go up to 3 voids, 2 roaming + 1 at my 3rd.
Also if you still have no idea what the zerg is doing after your pressure is finished, you should CB a phoenix to scout for you (it will probably die to queens/spores, but it's worth to see his tech path).
I believe 3/4 gate +1 zealot voidray, goes best with as little amount of stalkers as possible. There is a 'Stalkerless PvZ' guide that promotes this style.
My own personal recommendation for follow ups to your pressure:
Hydra Den -> Fast Storm
Infester Pit -> Fast Storm
Spire -> 2nd Stargate
Mass Roach (Could be lack of any tech structure, but they have lair + evo chambers + dancing roach warren) = Add robo Or 2nd SG. Prefer robo for obs.
Only do this build vs 'Standard' 3-hatch play. I am not confident in the outcomes vs 2-hatch Lair.
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Northern Ireland25033 Posts
Cool guide, bit more concise than Alej's so is pretty valuable imo. I mean are people really criticising the OP when there are 'guides' on how to fucking 8-pool on here?
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@ Wombat - Thanks and you made me laugh
As far as the Voidray pressure build, that is just simply a different build all together
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I apologize for necroing this thread, and I've tried to find this answer on the other FFE threads, but I don't see any.
I watched the stream and read the entire thread- but it seems to be that the success of this build hinges on the Zerg not being good enough to scout for your forward pylon. This is because you only have one zealot to protect/distract them while you plant it. The zergs I play with would definitely not fail to notice the pylon and they WOULD take it out. This leaves me with no means to pressure them essentially. How do you deal with this, and can you help me understand? Is it viable to get the first warp in of zealots at your base, walk the probe over to his third, plant a pylon, and then get the next round?
I just don't understand how you're supposed to plant the pylon when it is very easy for zerg to just make an extra 4 lings to kill that zealot and take out the pylon.
Thank you very much for any advice/help. I appreciate it.
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On February 23 2012 06:35 Borkbokbork wrote:
I apologize for necroing this thread, and I've tried to find this answer on the other FFE threads, but I don't see any.
I watched the stream and read the entire thread- but it seems to be that the success of this build hinges on the Zerg not being good enough to scout for your forward pylon. This is because you only have one zealot to protect/distract them while you plant it. The zergs I play with would definitely not fail to notice the pylon and they WOULD take it out. This leaves me with no means to pressure them essentially. How do you deal with this, and can you help me understand? Is it viable to get the first warp in of zealots at your base, walk the probe over to his third, plant a pylon, and then get the next round?
I just don't understand how you're supposed to plant the pylon when it is very easy for zerg to just make an extra 4 lings to kill that zealot and take out the pylon.
Thank you very much for any advice/help. I appreciate it.
Any variant of +1 zealot builds, have two main options.
1) chrono warpgate.
2) chrono zealots out of gateway.
If you're struggling at getting a proxy pylon up with 1 or 2 zealots, then instead of using all chrono's on WG, put some into your gateway.
You can still end up hitting the zerg with a similar amount of zealots at a similar time.
If he opened fast speed, then it's probably better to use the approach of chrono'ing your gateways. If he didn't open fast speed, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to set up at least one proxy pylon. You should send 2 probes.
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Woo, RH fighting.
Love this build, and I do it in just about all of my PvZ. (Random player.)
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On February 23 2012 06:43 Trusty wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 06:35 Borkbokbork wrote:
I apologize for necroing this thread, and I've tried to find this answer on the other FFE threads, but I don't see any.
I watched the stream and read the entire thread- but it seems to be that the success of this build hinges on the Zerg not being good enough to scout for your forward pylon. This is because you only have one zealot to protect/distract them while you plant it. The zergs I play with would definitely not fail to notice the pylon and they WOULD take it out. This leaves me with no means to pressure them essentially. How do you deal with this, and can you help me understand? Is it viable to get the first warp in of zealots at your base, walk the probe over to his third, plant a pylon, and then get the next round?
I just don't understand how you're supposed to plant the pylon when it is very easy for zerg to just make an extra 4 lings to kill that zealot and take out the pylon.
Thank you very much for any advice/help. I appreciate it. Any variant of +1 zealot builds, have two main options. 1) chrono warpgate. 2) chrono zealots out of gateway. If you're struggling at getting a proxy pylon up with 1 or 2 zealots, then instead of using all chrono's on WG, put some into your gateway. You can still end up hitting the zerg with a similar amount of zealots at a similar time. If he opened fast speed, then it's probably better to use the approach of chrono'ing your gateways. If he didn't open fast speed, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to set up at least one proxy pylon. You should send 2 probes.
Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.
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2) Zerglings, no roaches – If you see this, kite with your 4-6 initial zealots until you get another warp in of 4. Then essentially A move into the third and once all the zerglings are gone target fire the hatch. The reason you target fire the hatch is because generally roaches will be on their way if not running over to save the third. DO NOT ATTACK THE ROACHES. Your main mission is to kill that third. Yes, your zealots will die but if you snipe that hatch you are ahead.
i am not sure about this, i play this style very often and usually Z at this point has a lot of unspended mineral, so he will just rebuild 3rd hatchery and will produce an insane amount of roaches (plus those that you didn't snipe at the beginning when they are still in manageble number). Very often vs Z is more important to kill units than structure otherwise you won't be able to face what is left from Z army after you lose all ur units to snipe a hatch ...
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Thanks for the great guide on this great build! I have already been executing the 4gate zealot pressure build before reading the article, but it still was great to learn a bit more about how to do it better.
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your Country52797 Posts
TY for this, I've been trying a 2 gate pressure but this is so much better ^^
Can't 2 roaches, a queen, and a spine crawler hold this though?
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I think this guide is odd, since you have a very delayed pressure. My own personal experiences is me ending up with 7 zealots and 4 more soon to be warped in at 8:00. I wonder what a 9 minute pressure move is going to help, since 8:30 roaches are very standard PvZ and will get you ahead against such late zealots.
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On March 11 2012 10:45 EU.Pink wrote:
I think this guide is odd, since you have a very delayed pressure. My own personal experiences is me ending up with 7 zealots and 4 more soon to be warped in at 8:00. I wonder what a 9 minute pressure move is going to help, since 8:30 roaches are very standard PvZ and will get you ahead against such late zealots.
See that was my thought too - I feel like there has to be a way to hit with zealots before 9:00. The vast majority of players build the warren at 7min and start production on roaches by 8/8:15, so I think the zealots would have to arrive by 8:00 or 8:30 at the latest.
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EPT
