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[G] PvZ – FFE into 4 Gate +1 Zealot Pressure - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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CreepyNA
Profile Joined September 2011
United States106 Posts
February 07 2012 21:16 GMT
#21
Can anyone tell me a good way to hold off the zealot pressure if I can't find the probe? Too often, I lose because my roaches are on the way and they target the hatch down. I get my evo and roach warren at 7:00.
Haters gonna hate
Tazerenix
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia340 Posts
February 07 2012 21:57 GMT
#22
On February 08 2012 06:16 CreepyNA wrote:
Can anyone tell me a good way to hold off the zealot pressure if I can't find the probe? Too often, I lose because my roaches are on the way and they target the hatch down. I get my evo and roach warren at 7:00.

If you don't find the probe then you are going to be extremely hard pressed to hold off the pressure without initial roaches. If you quickly spread creep to your third you can use queens to help delay the zealots whilst you get roaches out.
Tazerenix
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia340 Posts
February 07 2012 22:03 GMT
#23
One thing I like to do with this build is go for a fast double Stargate transition, if I kill or almost kill the third. Off 2 base, the zerg doesn't have the flexibility of choosing to react with multiple tech paths, and hence will quickly choose his tech after losing the third. Very very rarely would a zerg choose to go fast Hydralisks after losing his third, almost never, so you can be pretty sure the zerg will go for some sort of 2 base roach or 2 base mutalisk follow up after losing their third.

You can get 2 void rays out and easily snipe the third if you didn't get it before (assuming your stargates go unscouted, so make sure they go unscouted! and given how much you delayed the zerg you could potentially kill it even if they are scouted. Then, against roach, you can go up to a good 8 void rays and control the map against any sort of roach pressure whilst getting a third and teching to colossus, or you can pump a bunch of phoenix to hard counter any 2 base mutalisk (or potentially infestor) builds.

Here is a replay of the 2 stargate follow up off +1 zealot pressure. I didn't even execute it fairly well but I was able to control the map a lot.

www.tazerenix.com/replays/73
AGIANTSMURF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1232 Posts
February 07 2012 22:06 GMT
#24
I think this guide is fairly different than alej's certainly enough to justify its existence

Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you.....
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
February 07 2012 22:16 GMT
#25
No offense to the Alejandrisha's guide which has a lot of details, but I find this guide much more clear... possibly because it goes to the heart of the build as opposed to concentrating on all the branches. The branches are important, but to have a clear idea of what you would like to go for counts for a lot. In other words, the older guide doesn't appear to have an obvious core goal when you first look at it. Anyway, both guides are nice, thx.

And whatever happened to the rule about not putting everything in spoilers...?

monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
February 07 2012 22:56 GMT
#26
On February 08 2012 05:05 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.

While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.

I'm just suggesting he could have spent his time doing something more useful, possibly write a non-overlapping guide if he checked beforehand.

On February 08 2012 06:16 CreepyNA wrote:
Can anyone tell me a good way to hold off the zealot pressure if I can't find the probe? Too often, I lose because my roaches are on the way and they target the hatch down. I get my evo and roach warren at 7:00.

Make sure you manually make roaches out of your 3rd instead of from all your hatches.
Moderator
-VoidRay-
Profile Joined December 2011
57 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 00:09:11
February 07 2012 23:42 GMT
#27
I see what you're saying, Ive had the most experience with this style because I play pretty standard PvZ - but I am working on a different build that hasn't been covered yet.
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
bertu
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Brazil871 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 00:01:26
February 07 2012 23:55 GMT
#28
Alej`s guide is significantly more complete and based on pro sources.

Please keep in mind that I am not saying this for the sake of annoying the author (any effort for helping the community is welcomed, after all). I just want to make sure that anyone that finds this thread will also look at the other thread as well or they will miss important information when doing this opening/style.

Also, make sure you are not violating TL`s policy about self-advertising: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117332
SEKO SEKO SEKO
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
February 07 2012 23:57 GMT
#29
On February 08 2012 08:42 VoidRayRH wrote:
Monk, I understand you think that this guide may not have been a great use of my time but I honestly believe that my time WAS spent doing something useful and believe that this guide has helped out my fellow Protoss players greatly. Yes maybe there is another guide out there but I'm simply trying to help?

If you think you spent your time well, then you shouldn't care what other people think =P.
Moderator
-VoidRay-
Profile Joined December 2011
57 Posts
February 08 2012 00:10 GMT
#30
On February 08 2012 08:57 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 08:42 VoidRayRH wrote:
Monk, I understand you think that this guide may not have been a great use of my time but I honestly believe that my time WAS spent doing something useful and believe that this guide has helped out my fellow Protoss players greatly. Yes maybe there is another guide out there but I'm simply trying to help?

If you think you spent your time well, then you shouldn't care what other people think =P.


haha true, i'll make sure next guide is on something new ^^
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
alexisonfire
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil25 Posts
February 08 2012 13:21 GMT
#31
I tried this on pratice games and it worked really well!
Thank you for the guide.
get fighted!
Adonminus
Profile Joined January 2012
Israel543 Posts
February 08 2012 14:01 GMT
#32
You could do the 4 gate +1 pressure using YufFE: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Gate_Nexus_YufFE
I have succeeded to start warping zealots at 7:13 at my best timing. which means 6 zealots with +1 already at 7:15. That's a minute earlier than a 4 gate +1 off a FFE, and usually he won't have roaches in time to defend. If you want, I could post some replays of how it's done.
-VoidRay-
Profile Joined December 2011
57 Posts
February 08 2012 14:23 GMT
#33
@Adonminus - I have seen this work as well but I feel like establishing a great income as well as putting on pressure is the way to go. As I have said, I am a Protoss who yearns for 3 base play. I feel that 3 base Protoss is very strong and that is where I try to get to most games. Because of that fact, I don't do too many all ins which means I always like to try to incorporate builds that emphasis economy while still pressuring a Zerg. I have never actually done the YufFE but I have seen it done. It is interesting that it hits that much earlier but I feel safer doing it this way But it is not wrong just different. Thanks for the input!
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
February 08 2012 15:27 GMT
#34
Back on the topic of "all zergs know how to defend this", I don't think it's necessarily true. However, I know that if I saw that zealot and/or probe moving across the map I'd kill it before it got to my 3rd with 4-6 speedlings, and I'd never let that proxy probe get to a hiding spot (just with solid zergling patrols). I feel like this pressure gets shut down pretty hard by active scouting / anyone who makes extra slings.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
CaptainHaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United States240 Posts
February 08 2012 15:34 GMT
#35
On February 09 2012 00:27 TangSC wrote:
Back on the topic of "all zergs know how to defend this", I don't think it's necessarily true. However, I know that if I saw that zealot and/or probe moving across the map I'd kill it before it got to my 3rd with 4-6 speedlings, and I'd never let that proxy probe get to a hiding spot (just with solid zergling patrols). I feel like this pressure gets shut down pretty hard by active scouting / anyone who makes extra slings.

It really depends on how many lings you commit to and how many zealots are made. Generally speaking if I clear the tower long enough for a probe to get by, I can usually safely get a proxy pylon up as warpgate tech is finishing. On maps like antiga it's generally really easy to get a proxy set up since the zerg usually doesn't make enough lings to cover areas where a probe can slip by.

Maps like, shakuras and metalopolis are a little more difficult, but even if I clear the tower for only a couple seconds before your batch of speedlings kill my zealot my probe can slip by unnoticed. I can drop like 2/3 pylons near your third and it is unlikely that you would be able to kill them all before my zealots warp in.

For the most part the pylon just needs to be on your side of the map or force out enough speedlings to do economic damage in its own right.
All of us warned you of the big white face.
-VoidRay-
Profile Joined December 2011
57 Posts
February 08 2012 15:37 GMT
#36
@TangSC - I actually have had this problem of not being able to get my proxi pylon up, but as crafty as Zergs are at denying, Protoss are just as crafty to get proxi's up! Its just part of the game. Every Protoss assumes that their first or even second probe to hide will be scouted. Good protoss's will find ways of tricking the Zerg's pesky zerglings and get a proxi up. Even in pro matches, Protoss's are usually able to get a proxi up because the truth is, even though the zerg is extremely mobile with lings early game, they don't have map hacks! (I hope ^^) So, with some skill and a little luck, you can get a proxi pylon up even if its not in the most ideal spot.
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
RRDjhonn
Profile Joined January 2012
34 Posts
February 08 2012 18:49 GMT
#37
This build is solid but i preffer too run with yuffe opener , reason? the extra zealots that u get with yuffe make the difference , those early zeas are very usefull to destroy zergs map control and put your proxy to work. After pressure i usually take robo,prism and 1 set of warpin in sentrys , and begin harras with zealot warp ins.
-VoidRay-
Profile Joined December 2011
57 Posts
February 08 2012 19:12 GMT
#38
@ RRDjhonn - I understand how early zealots can gain you map control but as long as 2 of your first 3 units are zealots, you can usually establish enough map dominance to get a probe out easy.
Sign up at www.TangStarcraft.com for free strategy articles, stream lessons, and tutorial videos. PM me for coaching info!
chimpyman
Profile Joined December 2011
United States6 Posts
February 08 2012 20:12 GMT
#39
On February 08 2012 05:25 doner0 wrote:
HOLY SHIT! this is probably the best guide i have seen on this so far. Great job!


ya i tried this out and it worked perfectly. the zerg player was completely unprepared and i sniped his 3rd. This guide is really simple to use and i learned and awesome strat from it. thanks man! awesome guide!
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
February 08 2012 20:50 GMT
#40
On February 08 2012 05:05 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 03:37 NrGmonk wrote:
Um, there's already a more detailed guide on this.

While Alejandrisha did a phenomenal job in his Heroic PvZ guide, I think you're being a bit harsh. Voidray still put time and effort into the guide because he thought it would help some protoss players learn the style - he even did a tutorial video and replay analysis. There's nothing wrong with multiple points of view on a given build, and I think his contribution, though not as detailed as Alej's, will help some players.


Well said. I found this guide short, sweet, and to the point.
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