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Any suggestions from high level players would be GREATLY appreciated...
I'm having a lot of trouble against muta players who just tech to bls or ultras really fast, i feel like all i can do is defend defend defend the muta harrass and not tech myself or expand past 3 bases, it really hurts when you deflect muta and then run into 500 broodlords
Anyway this guy was by no means good its just muta are really hard to play against...
(masters btw, only high masters and blue posters can please post opinions? thanks)
please help thanks
http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Pez_vs_(Z)Stride/17734
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On February 02 2012 20:55 pezzaperry wrote:
(masters btw, only high masters and blue posters can please post opinions? thanks)
I took a look at your replay, and then I looked back at your post. Since I'm plat however, guess I won't post my thoughts on how you can do better.
Zerg btw.
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Well, i am not high level player but watch your replay and saw some huge mistakes..
First of all ,you got macro issues,your worker count so low and you just dont make probes.Dont know your league but you make probes as you were gold or Platinum.
Dont even understand your BO,because you were doing some kind of 3gate Expansion into forge wall in natural?? And only 30 probes at 8:00 mins?So low...
You made a LOT of units so early and did NOTHING with them..You need them if you were going to make some push,but 3gate hevay sentry combo of u did nothing but chilling in natural...
He took his 3rd for free.U did Nothing to deny it.Were playing as has opened with FFE,and u didnt.FFE is to try make lot of probes and do some push to prevent Zerg droning hard or deny his early 3rd,u forced,by going FFE...So when u were trying to take ur 3rd he got lot of stuff,drones enough to go whatever he wishes..You lost even before he begun making mutalisks..They arent ur problem,is macro and decision making.If u got lot of units USE them to do SOMETHING or dont make units and make lots of probes.If u got Zerg enemy u must do lot of pressure to prevent him droning and got the tech he want...
U played TOO scared of mutas and left him take 4th on gold for free...Just lost there,no matter what happened later.Your issue is not your enemy´s combo of units,its your MACRO.
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your macro was pretty bad, late third, low probe count. Also at the first real engagement you had all of his broods in a vortex, but you did not put your archon in it, he would have lost them and pretty much gg from then of. Anyways mutas ain't really your problem it's your poor macro. Work on that and refine your build and timings. Just my 2 cents
And for the sake if it matters, Mid masters zerg.
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On February 02 2012 23:33 Dvriel wrote:
Well, i am not high level player but watch your replay and saw some huge mistakes..
First of all ,you got macro issues,your worker count so low and you just dont make probes.Dont know your league but you make probes as you were gold or Platinum.
Dont even understand your BO,because you were doing some kind of 3gate Expansion into forge wall in natural?? And only 30 probes at 8:00 mins?So low...
You made a LOT of units so early and did NOTHING with them..You need them if you were going to make some push,but 3gate hevay sentry combo of u did nothing but chilling in natural...
He took his 3rd for free.U did Nothing to deny it.Were playing as has opened with FFE,and u didnt.FFE is to try make lot of probes and do some push to prevent Zerg droning hard or deny his early 3rd,u forced,by going FFE...So when u were trying to take ur 3rd he got lot of stuff,drones enough to go whatever he wishes..You lost even before he begun making mutalisks..They arent ur problem,is macro and decision making.If u got lot of units USE them to do SOMETHING or dont make units and make lots of probes.If u got Zerg enemy u must do lot of pressure to prevent him droning and got the tech he want...
U played TOO scared of mutas and left him take 4th on gold for free...Just lost there,no matter what happened later.Your issue is not your enemy´s combo of units,its your MACRO.
Yeah you are clearly a low level player... There are reasons for my probe production, I'm not one of those retards who says "build probes non-stop no matter what", that's completely wrong!
The reason I didn't push is because he did a SPEEDLING EXPAND and PRESSURED with it, are you retarded?
Why I didn't pressure his third: He would go into my base with mutas.
Fuck this forum this is why I need a high level player posting, are there any communities out there for high master only? kthx.
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On February 03 2012 12:28 pezzaperry wrote:
The reason I didn't push is because he did a SPEEDLING EXPAND and PRESSURED with it, are you retarded?
I will probably get warned for this post but...
Not very nice man some1 is just offering some opinion to help you out.. You did ask for a high lvl response but calm down its only been 2hrs since your OP.. Some1 is only offering some advice its up to you whether you take it on board or not. As far as i see it every bit of information helps from all angles.
On February 03 2012 12:28 pezzaperry wrote:
Fuck this forum this is why I need a high level player posting, are there any communities out there for high master only? kthx.
There probably is but i read these forums every day and its probably the biggest family out there even with high level players. No reason to get angry at the forum for people helping you out after you asked for it.
Sorry i cant help you out on your game play im only a Platinum level player so my advice is not wat you are after.
Just hate seeing some1 get slammed for trying to help out.
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No because he says offensive things to my gameplay when he doesn't actually understand my gameplay in the first place. It really frustrates me, that's why I specified in my OP for high level players only.
Also I need ideas like warp prism dts whatever not just derp macro better, mate I'm way past that you tell that to gold players ...
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On February 03 2012 13:12 pezzaperry wrote:
No because he says offensive things to my gameplay when he doesn't actually understand my gameplay in the first place. It really frustrates me, that's why I specified in my OP for high level players only.
Also I need ideas like warp prism dts whatever not just derp macro better, mate I'm way past that you tell that to gold players ...
Please, read these again or if you haven't yet. He gave an opinion on your play. It sounds like you're not building enough probes, doing some wacky stuff without any sort of payoff, and losing because of that.
I'll watch the replay tomorrow and edit my post, too tired tonight. I was just testing my new headset while browsing TL.
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With your attitude I don't believe you deserve the advice of people on this forum.
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On February 03 2012 13:12 pezzaperry wrote:
No because he says offensive things to my gameplay when he doesn't actually understand my gameplay in the first place. It really frustrates me, that's why I specified in my OP for high level players only.
Also I need ideas like warp prism dts whatever not just derp macro better, mate I'm way past that you tell that to gold players ...
your opinion that someone needs to be in masters to understand a match-up or properly analyze a replay is flat retarded.
maybe spend a little more time listening to people's opinions and considering them than just smashing them all down...especially when you're here in the first place because you know that you're fucking up.
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On February 03 2012 13:45 Htw wrote:
With your attitude I don't believe you deserve the advice of people on this forum.
Yep thanks please stop giving me advice morons.
User was banned for this post.
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On February 03 2012 12:28 pezzaperry wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 23:33 Dvriel wrote:
Well, i am not high level player but watch your replay and saw some huge mistakes..
First of all ,you got macro issues,your worker count so low and you just dont make probes.Dont know your league but you make probes as you were gold or Platinum.
Dont even understand your BO,because you were doing some kind of 3gate Expansion into forge wall in natural?? And only 30 probes at 8:00 mins?So low...
You made a LOT of units so early and did NOTHING with them..You need them if you were going to make some push,but 3gate hevay sentry combo of u did nothing but chilling in natural...
He took his 3rd for free.U did Nothing to deny it.Were playing as has opened with FFE,and u didnt.FFE is to try make lot of probes and do some push to prevent Zerg droning hard or deny his early 3rd,u forced,by going FFE...So when u were trying to take ur 3rd he got lot of stuff,drones enough to go whatever he wishes..You lost even before he begun making mutalisks..They arent ur problem,is macro and decision making.If u got lot of units USE them to do SOMETHING or dont make units and make lots of probes.If u got Zerg enemy u must do lot of pressure to prevent him droning and got the tech he want...
U played TOO scared of mutas and left him take 4th on gold for free...Just lost there,no matter what happened later.Your issue is not your enemy´s combo of units,its your MACRO. Yeah you are clearly a low level player... There are reasons for my probe production, I'm not one of those retards who says "build probes non-stop no matter what", that's completely wrong! The reason I didn't push is because he did a SPEEDLING EXPAND and PRESSURED with it, are you retarded? Why I didn't pressure his third: He would go into my base with mutas. Fuck this forum this is why I need a high level player posting, are there any communities out there for high master only? kthx.
High master.
I watched the replay, i dont understand what you mean by "There are reasons for my probe production", care to explain?
also, you didn't build a single probe between 11:30 - 16:00, but you were floating enough minerals to build them while still using your warpgates. .
The highest amount of workers you had was 64, that was on 3 bases. when you had 6 (4mining)bases you had around 50(!!!).
Actually once you hit 64 probes, you completely 100% stopped producing workers at all, even when you lost probes to his harass you didn't rebuild them, not until he took you down to about 35 probes did you start producing them again.
As for the first battle:
your zealots were behind the stalkers
6 Sentries with full energy, not a single forcefield used vs the lings and banelings he was throwing at you.
Altho you used your HT's as a shield for your stalkers vs the lings and banelings..
I'm not a protoss player, so i dont know how many gates you should have, but isn't 12 gates too few when on 6 bases, very lategame and going PURE gateway? (+1 motership i guess)
I dont know, but it just seems very low, but yeah i guess you can keep your money quite low of you're on 50 probes, trying to fight 200/200 battles with 2 armor/3attack gateway units vs 2/2 broodlords and 3/3 zerglings.
Wouldn't it make more sense to build more probes and use mass gateways with a strong economy to refresh your army quickly after battles? also, try warp prism harass in lategame, especially vs Broodlords, you did kill all his mutas..
You never got more than 2 ground armor upgrades, and never more than 1 shield upgrade.
"Fuck this forum this is why I need a high level player posting"
Learn to build probes!... and stop being rude to people trying to help you.
But you need to realise that once he starts producing broodlords, your the one that can harass and he's the one that cant really move out safely..
midgame: Mutas force you to stay in your base.
Lategame: Blink stalkers + mothership OR/AND warpprism forces him to stay in his base.
And when i say warpprism harass i dont mean "Build a warpprism and set rally point to his 6th, and deploy it there to warp in zealots 3 times in a 44 minute long game"
I mean build 1 or 2 warp prism and move around with them, force him to react to them, damnit he didn't have a single spine to protect his greater spire, hive, spawning pool, baneling nest, and 2nd spire... and in his natural he had no spines to defend his roach warren and infestation pit..
"I'm not one of those retards who says "build probes non-stop no matter what", that's completely wrong!"
No, you're one and only guy that says "Ok,my 1st and 2nd base are satured, i dont need more probes", then you take a third and go"oh, not enough probes, i guess i'll start building more now then", then you completely stop when you think it's enough probes in that 3rd mineral line and say "Yep... all done! no matter what happens i refuse to build more probes this game."
/ Sorry for my bad english.. i just woke up.
Actually, i'm diamond btw, but i was hoping you would atleast read what i said.. so i lied 
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On February 03 2012 15:08 Mephtral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 12:28 pezzaperry wrote:On February 02 2012 23:33 Dvriel wrote:
Well, i am not high level player but watch your replay and saw some huge mistakes..
First of all ,you got macro issues,your worker count so low and you just dont make probes.Dont know your league but you make probes as you were gold or Platinum.
Dont even understand your BO,because you were doing some kind of 3gate Expansion into forge wall in natural?? And only 30 probes at 8:00 mins?So low...
You made a LOT of units so early and did NOTHING with them..You need them if you were going to make some push,but 3gate hevay sentry combo of u did nothing but chilling in natural...
He took his 3rd for free.U did Nothing to deny it.Were playing as has opened with FFE,and u didnt.FFE is to try make lot of probes and do some push to prevent Zerg droning hard or deny his early 3rd,u forced,by going FFE...So when u were trying to take ur 3rd he got lot of stuff,drones enough to go whatever he wishes..You lost even before he begun making mutalisks..They arent ur problem,is macro and decision making.If u got lot of units USE them to do SOMETHING or dont make units and make lots of probes.If u got Zerg enemy u must do lot of pressure to prevent him droning and got the tech he want...
U played TOO scared of mutas and left him take 4th on gold for free...Just lost there,no matter what happened later.Your issue is not your enemy´s combo of units,its your MACRO. Yeah you are clearly a low level player... There are reasons for my probe production, I'm not one of those retards who says "build probes non-stop no matter what", that's completely wrong! The reason I didn't push is because he did a SPEEDLING EXPAND and PRESSURED with it, are you retarded? Why I didn't pressure his third: He would go into my base with mutas. Fuck this forum this is why I need a high level player posting, are there any communities out there for high master only? kthx. High master. I watched the replay, i dont understand what you mean by "There are reasons for my probe production", care to explain? also, you didn't build a single probe between 11:30 - 16:00, but you were floating enough minerals to build them while still using your warpgates. . The highest amount of workers you had was 64, that was on 3 bases. when you had 6 (4mining)bases you had around 50(!!!). Actually once you hit 64 probes, you completely 100% stopped producing workers at all, even when you lost probes to his harass you didn't rebuild them, not until he took you down to about 35 probes did you start producing them again. As for the first battle: your zealots were behind the stalkers 6 Sentries with full energy, not a single forcefield used vs the lings and banelings he was throwing at you. Altho you used your HT's as a shield for your stalkers vs the lings and banelings.. I'm not a protoss player, so i dont know how many gates you should have, but isn't 12 gates too few when on 6 bases, very lategame and going PURE gateway? (+1 motership i guess) I dont know, but it just seems very low, but yeah i guess you can keep your money quite low of you're on 50 probes, trying to fight 200/200 battles with 2 armor/3attack gateway units vs 2/2 broodlords and 3/3 zerglings. Wouldn't it make more sense to build more probes and use mass gateways with a strong economy to refresh your army quickly after battles? also, try warp prism harass in lategame, especially vs Broodlords, you did kill all his mutas.. You never got more than 2 ground armor upgrades, and never more than 1 shield upgrade. "Fuck this forum this is why I need a high level player posting" Learn to build probes!... and stop being rude to people trying to help you. But you need to realise that once he starts producing broodlords, your the one that can harass and he's the one that cant really move out safely.. midgame: Mutas force you to stay in your base. Lategame: Blink stalkers + mothership OR/AND warpprism forces him to stay in his base. And when i say warpprism harass i dont mean "Build a warpprism and set rally point to his 6th, and deploy it there to warp in zealots 3 times in a 44 minute long game" I mean build 1 or 2 warp prism and move around with them, force him to react to them, damnit he didn't have a single spine to protect his greater spire, hive, spawning pool, baneling nest, and 2nd spire... and in his natural he had no spines to defend his roach warren and infestation pit.. "I'm not one of those retards who says "build probes non-stop no matter what", that's completely wrong!" No, you're one and only guy that says "Ok,my 1st and 2nd base are satured, i dont need more probes", then you take a third and go"oh, not enough probes, i guess i'll start building more now then", then you completely stop when you think it's enough probes in that 3rd mineral line and say "Yep... all done! no matter what happens i refuse to build more probes this game." / Sorry for my bad english.. i just woke up. Actually, i'm diamond btw, but i was hoping you would atleast read what i said.. so i lied
Rofl. This post is SO GOOD and SO accurate! Well said.
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On February 03 2012 13:45 Htw wrote:
With your attitude I don't believe you deserve the advice of people on this forum.
Exactly. Manner up if you expect people to give you a hand. I certainly wont.
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On February 03 2012 12:28 pezzaperry wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 23:33 Dvriel wrote:
Well, i am not high level player but watch your replay and saw some huge mistakes..
First of all ,you got macro issues,your worker count so low and you just dont make probes.Dont know your league but you make probes as you were gold or Platinum.
Dont even understand your BO,because you were doing some kind of 3gate Expansion into forge wall in natural?? And only 30 probes at 8:00 mins?So low...
You made a LOT of units so early and did NOTHING with them..You need them if you were going to make some push,but 3gate hevay sentry combo of u did nothing but chilling in natural...
He took his 3rd for free.U did Nothing to deny it.Were playing as has opened with FFE,and u didnt.FFE is to try make lot of probes and do some push to prevent Zerg droning hard or deny his early 3rd,u forced,by going FFE...So when u were trying to take ur 3rd he got lot of stuff,drones enough to go whatever he wishes..You lost even before he begun making mutalisks..They arent ur problem,is macro and decision making.If u got lot of units USE them to do SOMETHING or dont make units and make lots of probes.If u got Zerg enemy u must do lot of pressure to prevent him droning and got the tech he want...
U played TOO scared of mutas and left him take 4th on gold for free...Just lost there,no matter what happened later.Your issue is not your enemy´s combo of units,its your MACRO. Yeah you are clearly a low level player... There are reasons for my probe production, I'm not one of those retards who says "build probes non-stop no matter what", that's completely wrong! The reason I didn't push is because he did a SPEEDLING EXPAND and PRESSURED with it, are you retarded? Why I didn't pressure his third: He would go into my base with mutas. Fuck this forum this is why I need a high level player posting, are there any communities out there for high master only? kthx.
I smell a Troll about to be roasting inc. Times like this I wish I had a report button.
Anytime you cut probes, you are letting your opponent get further ahead of you macro-wise. While there are several times when it could be useful to cut probes (timing attack's, you have all the probes you need), you should keep making them until you max on them.
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EPT
