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Sleeper Cell Mafia II

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 17 2012 06:40 GMT
#17
/in
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 17 2012 20:13 GMT
#26
This time I'll make sure to kill all the town power roles. I think I missed one last time.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 17 2012 22:56 GMT
#30
On January 18 2012 07:47 Navillus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 07:20 prplhz wrote:
On January 18 2012 06:49 Navilus wrote:
Why does no one ever spell my name correctly?!

It's just a conspiracy.

I knew it, in this subforum people never remember the second L...

We already have one: Click!

There's another?
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 19 2012 20:44 GMT
#43
Are all the replacements actually signed up as replacements? If you moved some of them to the player list, we'd only need a few more.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 24 2012 22:39 GMT
#94
1. Can sleeper cell agents kill their own members by voting for them, or is there a mechanic in place to stop this?
2. To make sure, messages are received at the start of day and start of night, correct?
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 26 2012 05:07 GMT
#168
What's the difference between calling someone town or not scum? Why call someone either, unless there's a compelling reason to do so? I don't get it. I can see you don't want scum to know that someone's considered town by everyone, but why bother even calling people town or not scum in the first place?

In my opinion, don't call people town/not scum, unless they're getting lynched or something. There's no point.

Instead, just call people you think are scum, scum, and who cares about the others?

Also, BH, even though there's a voting thread, we should still write our votes here. It makes things transparent, and let's us know in the context of the thread when someone is voting.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 26 2012 05:10 GMT
#171
Then what was the point of this?
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 26 2012 13:24 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 13:15 redFF wrote:
I see no voting thread so I assume we vote in here

##Vote Radfield

I don't like first post walls that take up lots of space while managing to say very little.


Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 13:22 redFF wrote:
On January 26 2012 10:40 bumatlarge wrote:
Depending on power roles, I'd say there are about 4-5 mafia? Leaning 5 and town having some blues.

Pointless post.

On January 26 2012 13:05 Jackal58 wrote:
On January 26 2012 12:57 Radfield wrote:
On January 26 2012 12:35 Jackal58 wrote:
On January 26 2012 12:22 Radfield wrote:
/confirm

On January 26 2012 10:40 bumatlarge wrote:
Depending on power roles, I'd say there are about 4-5 mafia? Leaning 5 and town having some blues.



First things first, please do not do this. Consider: Mafia do not know who their partners are. Therefore, high up on the priority list of the mafia is figuring out who the other members are. We need to not let this happen easily. The mafia have access to several pieces of information we do not, most specifically the number of mafia in the game. Players popping out and saying they think there are X amount of mafia are immediately getting a note in my scum book. Why? It's one way for a mafia player to indicate he is mafia to the rest of the crew, without raising suspicion. Makes sense? So no speculation on mafia numbers please, at least not right now.

Second, mafia have very limited forms of communication this game, and from the looks of the Inception agent role, we can assume that town has some way to view their messages. This means mafia have to be extremely careful with what they write, so blatant things like lets kill X tomorrow are probably out. So mafia need a means to try to indicate to their brethren who should be getting hit. Imagine I am scum, I want to make sure that my buddies don't accidently send in hits on players I think are scummy, I want them to send in the hits on people I think seem like sure town. So what am I going to do? I'm going to repeatedly hammer it home in thread that I think Player Z is sure town. If there is general consensus among the group that player Z is town, he is a great target for mafia to lump in on.

We need to ensure this does not happen. Therefore I propose that NO ONE call anyone else town. Players are either scummy, very scummy, definitely scum, OR not scum. That is all. If you think someone is almost for sure town, you still just have to call them 'not scum'.

Benefits: Stops mafia from finding clear night-kill targets, and increases the chance of them shooting themselves.

Cons: Possibly leaves us low on town leaders. Certain players may spend too much time going after obvious townies.

Likewise, we should not be making medic lists. If you think a particular player should receive protection, that's probably cool, but no listing 3 or 4 people. In this game, that's just giving mafia a clear list of targets to shoot at, which is exactly what they need(a list). Medics in this scenario should be protecting whomever is most likely to die anyways, as there is no WIFOMing your medic protect around.

Third, and this is straight out of resistance mafia, no talking about mafia strats. We simply do not talk about optimal mafia moves, or likely moves, as that is simply a way for mafia to galvanize their actions together. In a game with minimal mafia interaction, we need to ensure that they cannot use the thread to disseminate information

So this game we talk about townie strats and townie moves, not mafia ones. On the flip side we do not call people likely town or town, we call them not scum or varying degrees of scum. Thoughts? Agreement or Disagreement?

Nice post. Wtf is that booger doing in the middle of it?


Not sure I follow. The idea is that you shouldn't be calling anyone town or probably town. You should either call them scummy(or some degree of scummy) or 'Not Scum'. ie: Don't reveal the degree to which you think someone is town, as that is a way for mafia to communicate, and a way for mafia to galvanize their hits onto townies.

Or were you asking something else?

Alright let's do it this way. I'm not going to say this is stupid. I'm going to say it's very smart, kinda smart, smart, or not smart at all. Dude this is fucking stupid.

This is some serious town posting yo.

On January 26 2012 12:46 Navillus wrote:
I agree with Radfield though I wish you hadn't mentioned the possibility of the inception agent seeing their messages, I agree that they probably would realize that but now they know for sure, and usually I say assume mafia is playing optimally but this is different because any noob scums aren't in communication to vet scums and so might have slipped up. Obviously we can't not talk about what mafia is likely to do at all though so basically I'm saying just be very careful with what you post about what we might have/do and they might have/do, and people who post a lot about that are very suspicious as that would be an easy way to transfer info.

So stop talking about it then. So far you have one post and it's talking about the one thing you're telling us not to talk about. This post just looks so fake with the whole "don't tell them about something that's in the op come on man we don't want to help out the scum look at me im really town blahblahblah"
In fact ##Vote Navillus


not scum is 7 letters and a space
town is 4 letters
therefore i will just be saying town.

jackal is town



._.


._______.


._______________________________.



http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306315
On January 26 2012 13:25 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 13:23 bumatlarge wrote:
I think redff is not being conducive to a pro-town atmosphere. At best he smell's like a cell agent

##Vote redFF


guys there is a voting thread in case my hilarious smileys or the OP hasn't made clear

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306315

It looked like you were telling them not to vote here. Maybe I misunderstood.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 26 2012 20:48 GMT
#257
Radfield, why did you use a different scheme of enumeration in you example list? Answer this.

The number 1 priority for scum today is to push a mislynch. They don't know who each other are, so the safest thing to do is to push a weak town player, or someone who committed some mistake. Their options are to either sit around, and let town run amok, which is bad for them, to support a lynch on someone they read as scum, which is bad for them, or to try to push a mislynch, which is good for them. Right now, the sudden support for offing Cwave looks like it's falling into that third category, so I'm going to pay particular attention to everyone who jumped on him, and for what their reasons were, because he makes a very valid point about what Radfield posted. If you say you can't see it, you aren't thinking hard enough, or you're scum.

Off to a lab, be back later.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 27 2012 04:09 GMT
#278
On January 27 2012 06:05 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 05:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Radfield, why did you use a different scheme of enumeration in you example list? Answer this.


I don't know. Do you think there's something more sinister about it as a result?


Yes, because mafia can't use abbreviated language unless someone posts a public key, which you did. If you had just posted with the same letters or numbers, then it's no longer a key that can be used to shorten scum communications. Now they just went from only having a binary designation, to having gradations to communicate their reads to their team, which isn't exactly useful for the town.

On January 26 2012 14:55 vaderseven wrote:
I have no idea how to read all that stupid-ness about how to properly term a read. WTF was that. It wasn't useful thats for sure.

Lets try to get a bit more on track than debating something insanely useless like that.


I actually find Navillus a bit squirmy but I have never played with him and thats like the barest of gut reads on the last few posts of his.

I hate day 1.

Vader, what happened to this? Why'd you bring up the town vs. not scum discussion again?
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 27 2012 22:20 GMT
#347
I don't really like how all the wagons look right now. I haven't had a ton of time to read and reread the thread, so I'd appreciate it if someone would talk to me, and maybe we can reason this out.


Right now, the leading candidate is Radfield. So far, he's contradicted himself a couple of times, and posted something that hurts the town. He's also made an excuse for if his early reads or bad or result in a mislynch, which I don't like. It takes responsibility away from him before anything happens. He's active, but I'm getting the feeling he's scum or else he's making really weird mistakes as town, but between the two, the former case seems more likely.

If someone could summarize the case on Bum, that would be nice. This is what I'm reading right now, feel free to correct me if I make a mistake:

Radfield: Wants to vote Bum because he says he's 'false-scumhunting', by trying to bandwagon onto himself and lynch a town player, along with other offenses.

Lanaia: Agrees with Radfield, says Bum rubs her the wrong way.

Navillus: Says that Bum not wanting to lynch Lanaia is scummy. Says he's just trying to push the lynch onto Radfield, or at least away from Lanaia.

I'll echo Vaderseven here, by asking Navillus why he would rather vote Bum than Lanaia, when his case on Bum is based on Lanaia being scum/scummy.

The wagon on Bum is a little iffy to me, because two out of three people on it are people who Bum said he'd want to lynch. Does anyone else support a Bum lynch right now? What are your reasons?

The other candidate is Lanaia who's been lurking and semi-useless.


Also, Cwave looks bad to me again, by basically dropping off the face of the earth after people called him out on the Radfield list.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 27 2012 22:22 GMT
#348
GGQ, can you tell me why Bum is scum?
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 27 2012 23:03 GMT
#356
On January 28 2012 07:39 Radfield wrote:
Wiggles, I posted a semi-case on Bum earlier in the game. Nothing major but a couple of small things added together.

You do realize the only reason I posted that list(ABC123 etc) is because people were repeatedly missing my point and making semantically arguments. You can't pretend that post existed in a vacuum and that I did not have reason to post it. Just read through that section of the thread.


Where have I contradicted myself multiple times?

What are my really weird mistakes?

What excuse did I make for my early reads being bad or resulting in a mislynch?

I also think you're dramatically overstating the potential detriment my ABC123 list has for town(though in hindsight I agree I should have just posted all X's), as well as overstating it as a scum motivated action.


On January 26 2012 13:33 Radfield wrote:
I don't scumhunt extremely early on in the game, as my reads (and yours I imagine) are terrible during that timeframe.

This looked like an excuse to me. I guess it depends on your definition about what "extremely early on" means, but it seemed weird to me, like if you lynch town on Day 1 you can go back and say that you're bad early on.

Contradiction 1: You say not to make plans for scum or discuss their strategy, then you write:
Second, mafia have very limited forms of communication this game, and from the looks of the Inception agent role, we can assume that town has some way to view their messages. This means mafia have to be extremely careful with what they write, so blatant things like lets kill X tomorrow are probably out. So mafia need a means to try to indicate to their brethren who should be getting hit. Imagine I am scum, I want to make sure that my buddies don't accidently send in hits on players I think are scummy, I want them to send in the hits on people I think seem like sure town. So what am I going to do? I'm going to repeatedly hammer it home in thread that I think Player Z is sure town. If there is general consensus among the group that player Z is town, he is a great target for mafia to lump in on.

Which is basically talking about scum strategy. Also, it seems off, because couldn't you use that for scum hunting? The first part, has absolutely no merit for town, and just warns the mafia to be careful what they write. As for the second part, you say that calling players town is a sign of scum pointing out a target. However, I don't see why you didn't use this idea to your advantage. You obviously think all or most scum will come to the same conclusion (or otherwise there would be no point in mentioning it), so why not wait until the end of day 1, and see who actually does it, to find scum? Normally people shouldn't have super strong town reads, especially with people lurking like they've been, so someone saying that x is their strongest town read and a sure green would basically set off warning bells and give you a scum candidate. The sacrifice of one player would be worth potentially catching multiple scum, and you can threaten that any possible medic protect the 'town' player. Instead, you send town off on a silly tangent.

Contradiction 2:
On January 26 2012 12:22 Radfield wrote:
Cons: Possibly leaves us low on town leaders. Certain players may spend too much time going after obvious townies.

On January 27 2012 07:02 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
This is also why its a bad plan. Setting out on day 1 with a game plan of never allowing 'leaders' to emerge is an amazingly bad plan. How often does one or two players end up contributing way more than others? This plan would be to ignore those types of players and to silently cheer them on.


This is a ridiculous argument. In no way does anyone get ignored and in no way do leaders not emerge. Leaders don't become leaders because a bunch of people call them town. Leaders become leaders and THEN a bunch of people call them town. Just keep your townreads to yourself, at the very least early on in the game(Day 1/2)

This looks weird to me, because you write yourself that your plan could leave town low on leaders, with no reasoning that can be seen besides they aren't called town. Then, when Vader says the same thing, you attack him very strongly for it. This looks like a contradiction.

The mistake was posting a public key for mafia communication, as well as the odd inconsistencies I pointed out above.

Added together, you seem inconsistent to me, and that makes me believe you're either scum, or playing oddly/making weird mistakes, such that it's making me think you look like scum.

Also, your first case on bum was two possible breadcrumbs and a couple of odd sentences, which didn't seem that strong to me.

It's too late to lynch GGQ, right? He looks very scummy to me.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 27 2012 23:32 GMT
#365
Well, I'm going to vote radfield now. If someone can give me some kind of amazing reason to move my vote, I'll do so.
##Vote: Radfield
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 27 2012 23:44 GMT
#384
On January 28 2012 08:41 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
Radfield (5): Meapak_Ziphh, Cwave, Jackal58, Bumatlarge, Mr. Wiggles

Navillus (1): RedFF

Bumatlarge (5): Radfield, Lanaia, Navillus, GGQ, Hesmyrr

Lanaia (2): Zephridd, Vaderseven

Meapak_Ziphh (1): Blazinghand


OK guys i got a solution for you. Just like 4 of you hop off of bum and radfield and come help me lynch an actual scum player. Jackal, Wiggles, Lanaia, Navillus Hesmyrr, we have the chance to actually lynch scum. come over here.

Does that mean you don't think Radfield will flip scum?

Also, why MZ over someone else who hasn't posted all of day 1?
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 27 2012 23:48 GMT
#392
On January 28 2012 08:47 Navillus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 08:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On January 28 2012 08:41 Blazinghand wrote:
Radfield (5): Meapak_Ziphh, Cwave, Jackal58, Bumatlarge, Mr. Wiggles

Navillus (1): RedFF

Bumatlarge (5): Radfield, Lanaia, Navillus, GGQ, Hesmyrr

Lanaia (2): Zephridd, Vaderseven

Meapak_Ziphh (1): Blazinghand


OK guys i got a solution for you. Just like 4 of you hop off of bum and radfield and come help me lynch an actual scum player. Jackal, Wiggles, Lanaia, Navillus Hesmyrr, we have the chance to actually lynch scum. come over here.

Does that mean you don't think Radfield will flip scum?

Also, why MZ over someone else who hasn't posted all of day 1?


What other options? I think Lanaia's a decent choice but she 1 at least gave an excuse and more importantly 2 has now been active and 3 seemed less scummy with what she did do/say than MZ

Refallen's gonna get modkilled.

IDK who else has lurked, I'll check later, not enough time now.

Cwave for example, completely disappeared after the Radfield incident. I'm sure there's others. I'm wondering what the difference is between MZ and them.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 27 2012 23:50 GMT
#394
On January 28 2012 08:48 Radfield wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 28 2012 08:03 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 07:39 Radfield wrote:
Wiggles, I posted a semi-case on Bum earlier in the game. Nothing major but a couple of small things added together.

You do realize the only reason I posted that list(ABC123 etc) is because people were repeatedly missing my point and making semantically arguments. You can't pretend that post existed in a vacuum and that I did not have reason to post it. Just read through that section of the thread.


Where have I contradicted myself multiple times?

What are my really weird mistakes?

What excuse did I make for my early reads being bad or resulting in a mislynch?

I also think you're dramatically overstating the potential detriment my ABC123 list has for town(though in hindsight I agree I should have just posted all X's), as well as overstating it as a scum motivated action.


Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 13:33 Radfield wrote:
I don't scumhunt extremely early on in the game, as my reads (and yours I imagine) are terrible during that timeframe.

This looked like an excuse to me. I guess it depends on your definition about what "extremely early on" means, but it seemed weird to me, like if you lynch town on Day 1 you can go back and say that you're bad early on.

Contradiction 1: You say not to make plans for scum or discuss their strategy, then you write:
Show nested quote +
Second, mafia have very limited forms of communication this game, and from the looks of the Inception agent role, we can assume that town has some way to view their messages. This means mafia have to be extremely careful with what they write, so blatant things like lets kill X tomorrow are probably out. So mafia need a means to try to indicate to their brethren who should be getting hit. Imagine I am scum, I want to make sure that my buddies don't accidently send in hits on players I think are scummy, I want them to send in the hits on people I think seem like sure town. So what am I going to do? I'm going to repeatedly hammer it home in thread that I think Player Z is sure town. If there is general consensus among the group that player Z is town, he is a great target for mafia to lump in on.

Which is basically talking about scum strategy. Also, it seems off, because couldn't you use that for scum hunting? The first part, has absolutely no merit for town, and just warns the mafia to be careful what they write. As for the second part, you say that calling players town is a sign of scum pointing out a target. However, I don't see why you didn't use this idea to your advantage. You obviously think all or most scum will come to the same conclusion (or otherwise there would be no point in mentioning it), so why not wait until the end of day 1, and see who actually does it, to find scum? Normally people shouldn't have super strong town reads, especially with people lurking like they've been, so someone saying that x is their strongest town read and a sure green would basically set off warning bells and give you a scum candidate. The sacrifice of one player would be worth potentially catching multiple scum, and you can threaten that any possible medic protect the 'town' player. Instead, you send town off on a silly tangent.

Contradiction 2:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 12:22 Radfield wrote:
Cons: Possibly leaves us low on town leaders. Certain players may spend too much time going after obvious townies.

Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 07:02 Radfield wrote:
This is also why its a bad plan. Setting out on day 1 with a game plan of never allowing 'leaders' to emerge is an amazingly bad plan. How often does one or two players end up contributing way more than others? This plan would be to ignore those types of players and to silently cheer them on.


This is a ridiculous argument. In no way does anyone get ignored and in no way do leaders not emerge. Leaders don't become leaders because a bunch of people call them town. Leaders become leaders and THEN a bunch of people call them town. Just keep your townreads to yourself, at the very least early on in the game(Day 1/2)

This looks weird to me, because you write yourself that your plan could leave town low on leaders, with no reasoning that can be seen besides they aren't called town. Then, when Vader says the same thing, you attack him very strongly for it. This looks like a contradiction.

The mistake was posting a public key for mafia communication, as well as the odd inconsistencies I pointed out above.

Added together, you seem inconsistent to me, and that makes me believe you're either scum, or playing oddly/making weird mistakes, such that it's making me think you look like scum.

Also, your first case on bum was two possible breadcrumbs and a couple of odd sentences, which didn't seem that strong to me.

It's too late to lynch GGQ, right? He looks very scummy to me.



Thanks for writing that out. I have a rebuttal for pretty much all of that, but don't have time to write it out right now, as I'm off for the night.

Just don't lynch me ok? I don't understand why any sensible town player who has even an inkling of my meta would try to get me lynched Day 1. Day 2, sure. Day 3, most definitely.... but DAY 1!? Show some common sense.

Just don't lynch me.

What would you suggest instead, if I don't like the Bum lynch too much? I actually don't like that a majority of people have all disappeared before the lynch.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 27 2012 23:53 GMT
#398
Radfield, are you still around? You don't seem like you care that much what happens...
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 28 2012 00:01 GMT
#407
You posted on the deadline, it's a little late now. =/

It feels like no one's playing right now.
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 28 2012 21:23 GMT
#463
On January 29 2012 06:15 GGQ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 05:39 redFF wrote:
On January 29 2012 00:59 Cwave wrote:
Ahhh man..... Fail that radfield was our Leo....

you cunt


Seriously, bud, stop being such an asshole. It's completely unnecessary regardless of your alignment.

I might not be back before lynch, so if I die I suspect bumatlarge, Cwave, and blazinghand. After that look at redFF, refallen and lanaia.

You're going to be gone for 48+ hours? Or do you mean before day post?
you gotta dance
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
January 29 2012 00:16 GMT
#479
GGz~~~~
you gotta dance
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