EPTTL Mafia XLVIII
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
If it comes to you choosing me to be in or out based on that just let me know and I will drop the coaching thing. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On December 04 2011 08:53 wherebugsgo wrote: Done, but you'll have a post restriction in which you have to constantly praise my awesomeness. And he has to post as much as you I do added together. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
My comp is mid reformat/windows install. Give me a few more hours and I will be jumping into the game then. If anyone would like me to comment or talk about any post/player/issue post so now and I will start with that. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On December 05 2011 05:56 Radfield wrote: New discussion topic: + Show Spoiler [ Jackal's first post] + On December 04 2011 23:57 Jackal58 wrote: Good morning. Role confirmed. Game on. Random lynch on day 1 seems counterproductive to me. On day anything really. What would you perceive as a benefit to doing that Palmar? Posting lists right out of the box about players who are likely on the scum team due to the hosts balancing reminds me a bit of Zodiac lists that have been posted in previous games. More often than not those lists were posted by scum. At least in the games I've seen them used in. You scum Palmar? The only way to 100% establish your innocence is to die. The last few games I've been trying to watch how scum players enter the thread. It's something I've always found a little difficult as scum. You have to somehow establish yourself in the thread, while simultaneously not draw attention... or at least that is the inclination. This post jumped out at me, and I'm wondering if it jumped out at anyone else. The tone, the touching on every subject, the shifting of attention back onto Palmar(twice). Anyone else or am I seeing things? Not to be funny by jumping in after you talk about jumping in but I have to say I agree with lists like that are not useful. From a pure game design / theory point if players are choosen for roles like that then you quickly set it up for the town to reading the mod to win instead of the town. That isn't the goal of the mod so that is a fallacy that either would be avoided or will in the future. From a more factual point of view, in my experience, mods will Eng the role/player list and if they want to tailor it they Eng several times until they like it. From a personal philosophy point of view I don't trust or even really care about approaches like this because they aren't based on anything a town player should have via confirmed info but is something scum could know. There is just so little chance for a town player to post trully useful lists like that day 1. It is just something to publicly ignore. Windows 60% done and then I can read the thread. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
We need everyone to vote and explain every reason they have for their vote because this the one thing Mafai have to lie about everyday. Even bussing is a lie in a sense. Voting no Lynch is voting to hide relationships, motives, and information. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Windows done. At work I can browse TL kinda but I cannot login (blocked login server but the forum itself itsnt blocked) (the worst part about that is you have to be logged in to read a filter). So yes, I was phone posting AND reading the thread via phone this time but when I am work I read via a comp and then post via a phone. Let me go visit ninite to grab some programs, grab a cup of coffee, and then read the thread and start my notes. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Annul pointed out and I agree that they are wifom bait at best. It is also true that they can be a tool of the mafia to lead the town. There is nothing to be gained from them. Talk about other things instead of posting them as that is way more useful to the town so we can get reads. ---------------------------- On December 05 2011 00:57 TruthBringer wrote: Also, I've been out of the TL mafia loop for awhile, so if it comes to day 1 lynching, I'll be completely worthless as I can't read any of you at all. This bothers me because it is a pre flip scape goat. No one expects your vote to be 100% accurate day 1 as town. There would be no way for it to be. Town has no information beyond their PM which at most has some mason allies if they are in the game or some such. It is a closed setup so take anything anyone says about role related stuff with a grain of salt but to you will be completely worthless day 1 because you can't read people is irrelevant. You seem to push either the no lynch or the 'my vote will be bad and worthless so please ignore it / don't be mad about it' route thus far. ----------------------------- On December 05 2011 01:14 syllogism wrote: "Zodiac" lists are fine as a guideline for medics, especially in a game with newer players or players who are otherwise unsure as to who is a likely n1 target. Even if they decide against following it, it will discourage mafia from shooting into it. Given the recent success rate of TL medics, I think the main early game function of medics is to discourage mafia from being overly bold with their shots rather than to actually save someone. I swear we need a TL Mafia strat forum or something because it seems like things like this clutter up the games. This is not productive to talk about or discuss when it is a discussion amoung town players that can't tell who is the good guys and mafia players who can discuss things in private and add carefully selected pieces of input. If you think you have a good understanding of starts for blue roles then write a guide or something that is generic and post it in the forums so that people can read it and come to own, safer/hidden, conclusions about how to play their role. On December 05 2011 01:14 syllogism wrote:A strong player surviving until day 3 is just one of the things that should be taken into account when determining his alignment. It doesn't automatically make him scum, but rather is something that depends on other circumstances; ie. who else has died and such. The str of a player does not make him scummier or not. Plain and simple. I challenge you to provide some prof that is evidence based that says otherwise. With that in mind, i never advocate adding suspension based on things that are not scummy. So, with all that in mind, you can see why I will be ignoring this advice and will encourage others to as well. I just imagine this situation where a town vet is alive on day 4 and gets lynched because he isn't a new player. How awesome does that sound (o wait). ------------------------------- Ok that covers some random posts and issues. I have read the whole thread as of now. I like redFF's case on Palmer. It is decent for a day 1 poke and the response that Palmar has made is bothersome to me. I really want to read Palmar's next post because as of now I think him saying the case is terrible with not even a one sentence fragment statement of why is actually scummier than the points redFF brought up. Corrupt, could you go ahead and just name the player you think is scummiest, link us to or quote the post(s) that made you think so, and then provide the logical thinking you used to come to a conclusion? We all know its not a 100% thing (especially day 1) but you have added nothing and your play is coming off, as of now, as an attempt to fit in without adding anything at all. Lanaia why you gotta be a hater? I.E. what is scummy about my play thus far lol? I actually think that was just a stone throw at me for no reason and I don't like that because it doesn't add anything useful. Annul is a very logical player (points out RNG hate by Radfield followed by RNG vote; states directing power roles is stupid ; points out zodiac lists are giant wifom bait), I like his points about mafia in general thus far. What do you think about some of the players positions or contributions Annul (spefically the redFF/Palmar situation, Corrupt, and Radfield). Let me just cut and paste my notes on one player: My notes on Radfield day1- Opens with a random vote on prplhz (rng). Too safe a vote that provides nothing. Even calls it bad. Really searching for ways that are not scum hunting to find a day1 lynch. Plays off of syllogism and says we need to make the town innocent so we can see scum. Suggest no-lynch after this. Says he likes zodiac lists. Says he doesn't like directing roles via lists. Says no-lynch is good cuz it makes us all get along. Thus far, I find Palmar, Corrupt, Redfield to be the players I would be most interested in seeing flip. I find Radfield to be the scummiest of those. ##vote Radfield Does anyone want me to look back at anything else that has happened thus far? | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
That is scummy. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
I read my PM etc before I made any posts once the day had started (just to be clear that I am aware of my role align in all of my posts etc etc). | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Prplhz, in the post where you said, "Just want to sit around and wait for power roles to do our job," where you intending for the word our to be concerning alignment and thus mean, "Just want to sit around and wait for power roles to do the town's job." I am not saying that you are saying that is the blue's job to win the game or anything I am just trying to clear it up that you intended for that sentence to imply that the blue roles will do their job and your choice of pronoun was a result of blues sharing alignment with greens. Correct? | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Opens with a random vote on prplhz (rng). Too safe a vote that provides nothing. Even calls it bad. Really searching for ways that are not scum hunting to find a day1 lynch. Radfield even agrees that he says RNG lynch is bad and then votes via a RNG. I get that you are saying vote != lynch but I refuse to not hold someone accountable (which would mean not take note of) for their votes. At the very least, he has made a vote that is clearly prestated to be worthless and that alone is scummy. You can't even use such a vote to pressure someone as the scum will just ignore worthless votes. He goes then to On December 04 2011 23:18 Radfield wrote: What about no lynching? That is an option in this set-up. Where would you rank it? So now we have RNG vote that he made sure to preamble with how worthless such a vote is followed by bringing up no-lynch. My feelings of his scummyness are based completely on his RNG way of having a throwaway vote that he is now safely hidden behind (on a player that for a bit was softclaimed as blue) and his then push to no lynch. I really dislike this post about the no lynch idea- On December 05 2011 01:33 Radfield wrote: If we end up no-lynching today, that is ok(although non-optimal). Keep in mind our Day 1 goals: 1. Create a positive atmosphere. Clarity, no arguing, etc. 2. Get everyone's votes and thoughts down on paper. Force scum to bullshit about who they want to lynch and why. 3. Establish baselines of activity for players for use in future days. Again, a no-lynch is not the end of the world, but we don't want to enter the day with a mindset of no-lynching. We want to enter the day planning to find scummy players, and gather a majority. You don't need to be able to 'read' anyone. Support people making sense, lynch people who are playing poorly. Past experience with players is useful, but not essential by any means. Even if you don't think you can find scum, contribute and make sure you don't get mistaken for one(assuming you are town). He mentions some truth and not so good things in a mixed up manner here. No lynches make day 1 worthless and the daytime is the time that the town has power. The town is an uninformed majority (or else the game is over) and a majority controls the lynch. In his list of 3 goals for day 1 I find goal 1 to be one that is there to just discredit aggressive players, point 2 is 100% correct and the only real goal, and point 3 is a neutral fall back thing to state as any alignment. He says a no lynch isnt the end of the world but then makes it clear how we should never start of thinking it is a goal. I really think he is trying to subtlety push this option. He doesn't want to get labeled as pushing it but is trying to bring up every small detail that can be viewed as positive for such a end to the day. His 2nd goal, the one that matters the most and is the most correct, is the one that he is not doing himself. I find that to be scummy as hell. He KNOWS the reasons for needed votes and cases and yet has a RNG vote (that he declared before making was worthless via stating that RNG isn't useful). | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Do you disagree? | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
All my concerns were addressed with that post by Radfield. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
I have to agree that what I call slap fights are awful for the town but aggression is good. I agree with your clarifications on all the matters. What a joy to have someone that responds quickly (luck there most likely, you are around and I am around), without saying 'u dumb/bad', and logically. I see where syllo is coming from now saying that you are a good player. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Not only will and has your play not provided any information that will help clue everyone on in to something that needs looked at (which would be the case if you made a case on someone instead of just posting a vague gut feeling) but your play is going to lack any links to reasons/evidence/motives and thus will be impossible to scum hunt in. We will be at most able to note your level of activity, your vote pattern, and your refusal to help. What BOTHERS me is that I have seen enough players that fit that description end up flipping town and the thread has to shake their collective fists and curse "bad townie." You are on notice now via my vote and this post. Change it up. ##vote Corrupt | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On December 05 2011 08:26 Radfield wrote: I've always been of the opinion that anything I can see, mafia can see. My god I wish more players understood this. In the last game on TL I was able to hide behind this fact as scum because people kept ignoring it. I was able to 'fill some space' by just pointing this point out again and again. To be clear this isn't linking saying that to scum slip or what not, I am stating that when players forget this point and post without being aware of it (by posting 'zodiac lists' and doc target lists etc) they give the scum players an easy way to post a 100% true and 100% pro-town post that doesn't set their team back. There is so many reasons not to do things like that is the point of this post. ^_^ | ||
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