[Champion] Fizz

Neos

United States400 Posts

November 17 2011 04:08 GMT

Fizz, The Tidal Trickster:

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Health: 414 (+86)
Mana: 200 (+40)
Attack Damage: 53 (+3)
Attack Speed: 0.658 (+3.1% / +0.031)
Range: 175
Health Regen: 7.0 (+0.7)
Mana Regen: 6.15 (+0.45)
Armor: 13 (+3.4)
Magic Resist: 30 (+1.25)
Movement Speed: 310

Patch Changes:

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V1.0.0.135:
Base damage increased to 56 from 54.
Armor per level increased to 3.4 from 3.1.
Chum the Waters mana cost reduced to 100 from 150.

V1.0.0.132:
Chum the Waters: implemented the following changes which were in Ahri patch changelog, but not actually moved into the patch:
Added a 3-2-1 timer like Time Bomb.
No longer hits nontargetable units like Vladimir in Sanguine Pool.
Hitting an enemy who is immune to the Fish now causes the Fish to drop on the ground instead of fizzling.
Fixed a bug where it stopped working if Fizz died.
Using Quicksilver Sash now drops the Fish on the ground instead of causing the shark to emerge immediately.

V1.0.0.131:
Base health regen per 5 reduced to 7 from 9.
Chum the Waters
Fixed a bug where Chum the Waters stopped working if Fizz died.
Hitting an enemy who is immune to the Fish now causes the Fish to drop on the ground instead of fizzling.
Using Quicksilver Sash now drops the Fish on the ground instead of causing the shark to emerge immediately.
Added a 3-2-1 timer like Time Bomb.
No longer hits nontargetable units like Vladimir in Sanguine Pool.
Urchin Strike ability power ratio reduced to .6 from .7.
Seastone Trident active base damage reduced to 10/15/20/25/30 from 10/20/30/40/50.

V1.0.0.130:
Urchin Strike:
Targeting updated to hit targets slightly earlier.
Damaging component can no longer be dodged.

Abilities:

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[Passive] - Nimble Fighter: Fizz's dexterity allows him to perpetually ignore unit collision and take reduced physical damage from auto-attacks.

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Level 1: 4 Reduced Damage
Level 4: 6 Reduced Damage
Level 7: 8 Reduced Damage
Level 10: 10 Reduced Damage
Level 13: 12 Reduced Damage
Level 16: 14 Reduced Damage

An amazing passive that lets him harass his opposing laner without taking too much, if any, creep damage.

[Q] - Urchin Strike: Fizz dashes a fixed distance in the direction of his target, dealing his total attack damage as physical damage plus additional magic damage to it. The ability will also apply on-hit effects.

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Active:
Rank 1: 50 Mana / 10 sec. CD / 10 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 2: 55 Mana / 9 sec. CD / 40 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 3: 60 Mana / 8 sec. CD / 70 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 4: 65 Mana / 7 sec. CD / 100 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 5: 70 Mana / 6 sec. CD / 130 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage

This is your initiate, your escape, and your juke boots. Because there's a fixed distance, you need to be careful when hitting something that's close to you or you might end up in an undesirable position. Apparently, if you use this when an enemy is too close to a thin wall, you will go through both; I haven't had this happen yet but be wary of that. This will also trigger effects such as Sheen, Lich Bane, Lizard Buff, and your [W] - Seastone Trident.

[W] - Seastone Trident: Fizz's auto-attacks passively deal magic damage over 3 seconds that strengthen if the opponent is low on life. Multiple auto-attacks will only refresh the duration. Activating it will empower Fizz for the next 5 seconds, dealing additional magic damage on-hit and inflicting grievous wounds to his opponents.

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Passive:
Rank 1: 30 (+0.35 AP) + (4% of Missing HP) Magic Damage
Rank 2: 40 (+0.35 AP) + (5% of Missing HP) Magic Damage
Rank 3: 50 (+0.35 AP) + (6% of Missing HP) Magic Damage
Rank 4: 60 (+0.35 AP) + (7% of Missing HP) Magic Damage
Rank 5: 70 (+0.35 AP) + (8% of Missing HP) Magic Damage

Active: 40 Mana / 10sec. CD
Rank 1: 10 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 2: 15 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 3: 20 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 4: 25 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 5: 30 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage

It's like your own miniature Ignite. Getting hit by this hurts, alot, especially once you start getting your AP. Use this when you've gotten close to your opposing laner with your [Q] or [E] to harass. In small or large teamfights, make sure you're using your auto-attacks as much as you can or you aren't dealing your maximum damage as Fizz.

[E] - Playful / Trickster:
Playful: Fizz hops onto his trident in a nearby location, becoming untargetable for 0.5 seconds and gaining the ability to use Trickster before the effect ends. If Fizz doesn't use it, he will slam the ground below him, dealing magic damage and slowing nearby enemies for 2 seconds.

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Active:
Rank 1: 90 Mana / 16sec. CD / 40% Slow / 70 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 2: 100 Mana / 14sec. CD / 45% Slow / 120 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 3: 110 Mana / 12sec. CD / 50% Slow / 170 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 4: 120 Mana / 10sec. CD / 55% Slow / 220 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 5: 130 Mana / 8sec. CD / 60% Slow / 270 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage

Trickster: Fizz hops off from his trident to a nearby location, dealing magic damage nearby enemies in a smaller area than Playful. This ability will not slow enemies.

Active:
Rank 1: 70 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 2: 120 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 3: 170 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 4: 220 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 5: 270 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage

For clarification, this skill only deals magic damage once, no damage is applied getting on the spear; you either stay on the spear and it will automatically take you off or you activate Trickster and move, both dealing the magic damage. This skill is two dashs, one getting on the spear and one getting off; both of these dashes can be used to jump over walls or terrain. I've been messing around with this skill and I believe that this skill can jump over the same walls and ledges that Nidalee can. The range on this skill is deceptively high. This skill is how Fizz is able to manage laning middle without being dominated; able to evade things like Disintigrate, Null Sphere, Parrrley, Requiem, or a fed AD carry's auto-attacks. However, there's a very short window on how long you're invulnerable but with practice you get a feel of it. The range of this ability can be weird, so be cautious using this for dealing damage.

[R] - Chum the Waters: Fizz throws a fish in a line that will bind itself onto the first enemy champion it hits. If it doesn't hit an enemy champion it will stay on an area, and binds itself to the first enemy champion that walks into the area. Regardless of position, after 1.5 seconds, a Shark will emerge from the earth to eat the fish, dealing magic damage. The shark will knock up the bound enemy champion, and knock-back then slow all enemies in the area for 1.5 seconds.

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Active: 100 Mana
Rank 1: 100sec. CD / 50% Slow / 200 (+1.0 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 2: 85sec. CD / 60% Slow / 325 (+1.0 AP) Magic Damage
Rank 3: 70sec. CD / 70% Slow / 450 (+1.0 AP) Magic Damage

Lolllllll, most satisfying ultimate since Garen. It has the mechanics of how you'd throw Olaf's axe where you control how far the fish goes and where the it stops if it doesn't hit an enemy champion. The slow will be triggered before and after the shark pops out so it lasts for 3 seconds. The knock-back isn't really a knock-back but more of a nudge like the mechanics of a trundle pillar.

Skill Order:

Skill Path #1: Super-mega Aggressive Laning

R>Q>E>W

Q+W+Autox? onto enemy laner as much as possible. (if against somewhat-strong laner, Q+W every E cooldown)
When low enough, QWERIgnite and kill.
Cons: Difficult to farm without E, punished easily by ganks if too aggressive

Skill Path #2: Farmfest Laning

R>E>Q>W

E in between melee and caster minions to kill them all after obtaining significant AP.
Look to E when enemy laner is in creep line to harass. (less relevant when laning mid)
Cons: Mana (130mp for Level 5 E), weaker killing power than #1

There will be some exceptions to changing the skill order against some champions like perhaps maxing W against a Mundo or something.

Runes:

9x Magic Penetration / Magic Resist Reds
9x Armor Yellows
9x Ability Power / Ability Power per Level / Magic Resist Blues
3x Movement Speed / Ability Power / Health Quints

Reds are based on what you're comfortable with. Yellows are for your survivability in combination with your passive allowing you to take little to no minion damage when playing aggressively. Blues will depend on the player and matchup; I personally prefer flat AP because I like early aggression on Fizz. If I had the IP and additional runepages I would get movement speed for my quints because I could get those extra stabs of [W] in but I don't so I settle with flat AP. Health quints are also nice for surviving those early levels in a hard lane.

Masteries:

After many Fizz games, I've decided that this setup is best for playing Fizz (with some exceptions):

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I've realized that Fizz deals amazing damage, so much that he doesn't need 21 points into offense. However, Fizz can only do this amazing damage after surviving his Kassadin-level early game. With these masteries, he reduces a lot of early-game harass, gets a little bit of extra health, and scaling CDR for his mid/late-game.

Summoner Spell Choices:

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No one will ever catch you in combination with the rest of your kit.
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Everyone uses this.
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Fizz doesn't need escape summoners with his kit, so heal+ignite gives him a strong laning phase.
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Just makes your burst that much scarier, standard AP middle stuff.

Items:

Starting Items:

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Boots + 3 Pots: Standard start, movement speed and a good number of pots.

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Sapphire Crystal + 2 Pots: Rush your catalyst.

Regrowth Pendant + 1 Pot: Rushing philostone against weak/passive early laners.

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Cloth Armor + 5 Pots: For certain top lane matchups or going mid lane vs a Pantheon/Talon/AD Carry/Etc.

Opening Paths:

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Philosopher's Stone: A nice item if you're laning top and sometimes mid against certain heros.

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Catalyst: Good sustain, straight into Rod of Ages.

Double Doran's Rings: Standard AP build, lacking sustain but stronger burst and enough mana regen to never go out of mana if playing properly.

Shoes:

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Sorcerer Shoes: Standard AP.

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Ionian Boots of Lucidity: If you're laning top and aren't going to be getting the blue buffs, these shoes aren't bad. Also lower CDs on your spells don't hurt (~40 second sharks).

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Ninja Tabi: Worth getting against a bruiser top / AD champion that you think is beating you in trades, otherwise just get something else.

Mercury Treads: For playing against a team with a ton of CC. I end up taking these boots over the other 3 in most of my games.

Good Items Choices:

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Rod of Ages: Makes you tankier to survive enemy burst with a decent amount of AP.

Rabadon's Deathcap: Lots of AP for the stronger burstings.

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Sheen: A good item to get early on to make your Urchin Strike hurt in the laning phase.

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Lich Bane: A perfect item for Fizz. Lich Bane + On-hit AP champion = +1.0 AP ratio on Urchin Strike totalling for a 1.6 AP Ratio.

Zhonya's Hourglass: So I herd you like being invincible..

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Deathfire Grasp: After seeing the Fnatic AP players do this and one-shotting carries, I realize this is a very viable, if not core, item on Fizz. Use this by hitting a shark on an enemy, followed by DFG, followed by Urchin Strike for tons of damage.

Bad Item Choices:

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Hextech Revolver/Gunblade/WoTA: Fizz is not a sustainy/long-fight type of champ; he wants to kill someone instantly and get out immediately after. Furthermore, 2 of his skills are AoE and one doesn't vamp at all so buying these items isn't cost effective.

Rylai's: Fizz has plenty of chasing power and slows in his kit that it isn't worth buying Rylai's ever.

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Sight Ward: [Note: Half-joking] Wards? Why get wards? You're a trolly fishy who hops away from any and every gank.

Example Final Build:

Jungle Fizz:

For jungle fizz you'd build more like a bruiser than an AP carry but your role in teamfights is basically the same. For runes you'll need a good amount of attack speed as well as building items such as Wit's End or Trinity Force. For skills you'll be maxing [W]Seastone Trident and hitting jungle creeps once then attacking the next for the most efficient jungle clears.

Example Final Build:

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Matchups:

Fizz has an incredibly weak early game because he's melee and cannot counter-harass. However, once he gets a few levels and at least one point in QWE, you can out-harass them with your damage. There are champions that you counter fairly hard and champions that will give you a hard time. Zilean is one of the more difficult champions to fight just because of his powerful harass, so play safely in this one. Kassadin is actually very, very very, bad against Fizz; dodge his Q's with your [E] and harass him whenever he gets nearby. Even when he hits 6 he's not in the clear yet because you burst as hard, if not harder, than he does.

Another thing about Fizz is that he is very good at getting away from ganks. Your summoner (Ghost/Flash), Seastone Trident, Playful/Trickster, and Chum the Waters will get you away from almost every form of gank possible. This means you usually have the freedom to be as aggressive as you want in lane without consequence.

Counterpicking with Fizz:

Vladimir: Against Vlad, your early weak levels don't exist. Winning this lane is on the Fizz player so trade smart and often.

Karthus: Karthus can only farm incredibly passively against Fizz or risk getting bursted. Also, you can playful his ultimate with proper timing.

Kassadin: A melee AP caster who's only means of counter-harass can be dodged with Playful. This lane should be a stomp throughout the entire laning phase.

Cho'Gath: Cho can be bursted down in early levels and his skills can be evaded, sometimes without the need of Playful. If the lane progresses and he builds no resistances, your seastone trident will destroy him.

Dr. Mundo: The hardest counter of them all. The healing debuff and % HP burn on your Seastone Trident will destroy any Mundo. His harass is much weaker than your harass. He has no chasing power over you with your Urchin Strike/Playful&Trickster.

Countering Fizz:

There are very few champions that counter Fizz once he's able to survive his initial 3 levels. To take him on, pick a champion that either has constant low CD damage, or instant-unavoidable damage. Soraka destroys most AP middle champions and Fizz even more because he's melee. Corki and Ezreal are both powerful solo AD champions who have high dps. Talon's damage becomes unavoidable if he's able to silence Fizz.

As the game progresses to mid/late-game, you need CC. Lots of instant hard CC. If Fizz doesn't get locked down, he'll simply hop around your team and dominate teamfights; but if he does, he is very squishy and can be killed very fast. Champions like Alistar, Blitzcrank, and Rammus are good at this.

The Riot Shop:

Fizz: 6300 IP or 975 RP

Atlantean Fizz: 975 RP
Tundra Fizz: 975 RP
Fisherman Fizz: 975 RP

More Fizz?

There aren't many high ELO streamers who play Fizz on NA, with the exception of Voyboy who plays AD/Bruiser Fizz. On EU however, Tabzz, MoMa, and xPeke play Fizz and some have played them in tournament games as well.

Tune into their streams to see high ELO Fizz plays!

Closing:

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Fizz is very very strong and people are going to find out quickly how good he is. I'll add more to this as I play more with him.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

November 17 2011 05:06 GMT

Didn't we already have a discussion about people not starting these threads the day after a champion comes out? Nobody is going to know how to play the champion properly this soon.

BrownBear

United States6894 Posts

November 17 2011 06:13 GMT

From what I've seen, his laning phase is pretty abusive, especially when paired with a good poking champ like Ashe or GP. Also, he towerdived me 3 times, once below half health at level 6, and got away

jbui

United States193 Posts

November 17 2011 06:24 GMT

yeah fizz is rly good, i played him once as a jungler with wiggles/wits/madred etc, really good ganks with his 2 gap closing skills, went 16-3-14, then i went the build above and went 11-1-4

Ferrose

United States11378 Posts

November 17 2011 06:32 GMT

It seems like you'd get more DPS out of Fizz by just going full AD and getting on-hit effect items, because of his W.

I think he'd be best as a jungler too tbh, because the AP build seems meh at best (Idk how he is gonna be able to beat most common mids), and he has no sustain for top.

TiBe

Mexico200 Posts

November 17 2011 06:46 GMT

On November 17 2011 15:32 Ferrose wrote:
It seems like you'd get more DPS out of Fizz by just going full AD and getting on-hit effect items, because of his W.

I think he'd be best as a jungler too tbh, because the AP build seems meh at best (Idk how he is gonna be able to beat most common mids), and he has no sustain for top.

I have tried a hybrid build and it seems to be the best so far, going for boots then malady, bv and hextech gun as core items :-)

overt

United States9006 Posts

November 17 2011 06:55 GMT

On November 17 2011 14:06 TheYango wrote:
Didn't we already have a discussion about people not starting these threads the day after a champion comes out? Nobody is going to know how to play the champion properly this soon.

Honestly if we could have a rule saying that no one can make a thread for the new champ for like two weeks after they're released that'd be pretty good. This thread and the Shyvana one are great examples of people being not 100% sure where to put the champion or what to build on them.

Slaughter

United States20254 Posts

November 17 2011 07:07 GMT

On November 17 2011 15:55 overt wrote:

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I would argue that this applies to champs months after they are introduced. How many times has a champ suddenly become popular becomes some build became popular once discovered? I am a firm believer that Shyvana has not yet reached her true potential because too many people accept others builds too easily and stop experimenting. Shyvana I think might some hidden potential that could be discovered a while from now, or maybe she has reached her peak buildwise. We just don't know.

phyvo

United States5635 Posts

November 17 2011 13:46 GMT

Even assuming that people might not have realized exactly how to play a champ until months after release, 2 days is really no time at all. Making a guide implies you know WTF you're talking about, and while not all guides can be of the same quality as South's Kassadin guide they should strive to be so. At TL we tend to pride ourselves on our quality rather than our quantity and there are actually some champions TL doesn't even have guides/threads for (like master yi iirc).

Just because a champion is new and shiny doesn't mean we should skimp on quality. If GD is really too fast for people maybe we do need new discussion threads but we certainly don't need guides based on one person's 2 days of experience playing a champion. Personally though I don't see the need for extra discussion threads on new champs, the GD is just fine.

Sabin010

United States1892 Posts

November 17 2011 14:12 GMT

#10

Its not a one guide per thread format. I would make gunblade lichbanes deathcap with possible defensive options being zhonya's, abyssal scepter, banshee's veil, qss, gaurdian angel. I believe going for a fast rageblade and maxing w may be strong with the lichbanes as well.

Edit: Nvm above build sucks. No real way of stacking rage blade for when you need it, and spell vamp doesn't work with w. Rageblade, Lichbanes could work, but it seems that malady/witts end may be stronger.

Sandster

United States4054 Posts

November 17 2011 14:42 GMT

#11

Like many others, I assumed Fizz's W benefits from spellvamp. It does not, making spellvamp very weak on him.

Usagi

Spain1647 Posts

November 17 2011 15:07 GMT

#12

Watched SK Ocelote play a couple games on his stream, playing him as a normal bruiser (irelia's way) and it looked completelly imba xD

Riku

United States1064 Posts

November 17 2011 21:33 GMT

#13

Veigar has been counter jungling with Fizz, using his E to hop over a wall, smite steal, then hop back (he has quick reaction time).

Fizz can also jungle, but it's a bit shaky. However, he makes a good ganker. For jungling, I start cloth armor and bots, go twins, wraiths, wolves, blue (should have a pot left after blue). I buy an amplifying tomb, then I clear twins, wraiths, wolves again and grab red. At this time I back again and get boots if I'm going to gank or another amplifying tomb (which I'll turn into a hextech revolver).

To jungle him, I go an odd 6/12/12 mastery setup, but it gives good defense, spellvamp and additional AP that makes his jungle possible.

Shifft

Canada1085 Posts

November 17 2011 21:40 GMT

#14

On November 18 2011 06:33 Riku wrote:
Veigar has been counter jungling with Fizz, using his E to hop over a wall, smite steal, then hop back (he has quick reaction time).

Fizz can also jungle, but it's a bit shaky. However, he makes a good ganker. For jungling, I start cloth armor and bots, go twins, wraiths, wolves, blue (should have a pot left after blue). I buy an amplifying tomb, then I clear twins, wraiths, wolves again and grab red. At this time I back again and get boots if I'm going to gank or another amplifying tomb (which I'll turn into a hextech revolver).

To jungle him, I go an odd 6/12/12 mastery setup, but it gives good defense, spellvamp and additional AP that makes his jungle possible.

I wouldn't call his jungle shaky really, starting cloth+5 you can do a full clear (blue->wolves->wraiths->red->golems) without backing. It's a little slower than some other junglers but his ganks are very strong.

Saintvicious has been jungling Fizz all Tuesday and Wednesday on his stream building him standard bruiser i.e. wit's end warmogs etc. and it seems incredibly good.

IMABUNNEH

United Kingdom1062 Posts

November 17 2011 21:46 GMT

#15

OMG I've laned against a few Fizzes now and I am super ragequit mad!

That invuln bro.... Can't ever engage onto him, and he hits like a truck early levels. Sadface

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

November 17 2011 22:11 GMT

#16

I've tried both bruiser style and full AP style Fizz. I've done well and badly with both builds. Honestly, both builds work. Bruiser tries to take advantage of your insane W skill, but I personally like full AP so much better. He has amazing AP ratios on every single one of his skills and I like to take advantage of that.

Going Warmogs/Wit's End lets you stick through an entire fight and just keep dishing out constant damage, while going full AP means you have to play as an assassin and hit/run a lot. But your full combo is definitely comparable to Talon/Akali's burst if not better. In my experience, Fizz does pretty well mid lane seeing how you can dodge most AP mid's harass with your E and your Q+W lets you trade extremely effectively. He gets shit on by range ADs and a good number of bruisers, however, since he has no way to deal with sustained (auto-attack) harass.

I've been going 21/0/9 with AP yellows/blues, mpen reds, and mspd quints. Been running Flash/Ignite, but Surge might actually be good on Fizz. Boots3 start into catalyst. Then I grab RoA and Dcap. From there I get Void Staff/Lichbane/Zhonyas depending on what I need. Playing Fizz as a pure AP assassin is all about knowing when to go in. You have to use your E very defensively to disengage, but honestly, your RQW combo is pretty much guaranteed to one-shot any squishy.

I'm honestly not completely sold on Fizz as a jungler. His jungle is extremely safe due to his passive and the speed is comparable to other junglers, but slower than Rammus/Udyr. Ganking is pretty strong with red buff, but he has no hard cc of his own so it's best if your laners have some for of hard cc. If they do, a gank is a guaranteed summoners or kill cause you do so much damage. If they don't, unless they're super overextended you probably won't do much. It works, but I've just had more success with Fizz as a laner. The bruiser style build is also pretty sick, but it just feels like a waste to not take advantage of his insane AP scaling.

barbsq

United States5348 Posts

November 18 2011 05:17 GMT

#17

i have established through an exhaustive study of 1 game that wits end -> rageblade > gextech hunblade ->ga is the best build ever

RoieTRS

United States2569 Posts

November 18 2011 07:01 GMT

#18

this character is pretty much cheating if you lane with him

his jungle is fun but not amazing.

dudes go malady witsend

ihasaKAROT

Netherlands4730 Posts

November 18 2011 07:54 GMT

#19

I accidently picked the wrong masteries and runepage for Fizz yesterday (AD runepage, BruiserMasteries) and I decided what the hell, ill finish the hybrid and go AP

Omg, it worked pretty well actually. I got raped by a wukong before, but I absolutely tore this one apart. So much damage lategame aswell with RoA, Rylais and Wits

KOPF

Finland164 Posts

November 19 2011 00:37 GMT

#20

I'm finding it odd that nobody has talked about AP Fizz with a Nashor's or Wit's. I tried with both of them with really good results especially if the enemy team doesn't have that much squishys to burst down.

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