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SKY 2002 Ongamenet Starleague Final-Boxer v Reach

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mensrea
Profile Joined September 2002
Canada5062 Posts
Last Edited: 2002-10-15 19:24:35
October 13 2002 18:46 GMT
#1
PRE-GAME

Before I get into the match descriptions, here's some background stuff for those who weren't there or haven't yet seen:

- The atmosphere's just electric. The OnGameNet TV show's piping "My Way (or the Hiway)" by Limp Bizkits on-screen to get things rolling. OGN, in what was thought to be a display of hubris, had prepared exactly 10,000 seats for the live, outdoor match. Well, it wasn't enough. An estimated 15,000 (not a typo: FIFTEEN THOUSAND) screaming fans show up beating the bejeezus out of their inflatable noisemakers. Anyone who still doubts the viability of pro gaming as a legitimate spectator sport needs to get a clue.

- The Korean rock band "Cherry Filter" (sounds suspiciously like the name of that drink I had last weekend, I swear...) puts on a pulsing pre-game mini-concert, then, in the ultimate display of coolness, grab seats themselves to watch the entire game. Now the jaded amongst you may think "well, that's just part of their job." But their faces during the game said otherwise: they were very, totally absorbed.

- Reach and Boxer make grand entrances flanked by members of their respective teams (including Yellow, HOT and Garimto) dressed in bodyguard-black suits. Cool.

- Boxer: "I've come prepared with something special for today's game ... I'd like to get back at Bak for beating me in the semis of another major tournament recently [the KPGA] ... I'm gonna show Bak what [SC is] all about."

- Reach: "I've never prepared like this for any game in my entire career ... I know Lim's also come prepared, but I'm fine with that and am confident ... I'm gonna win this thing tonight."

- Managers from both sides get into it to psych out the other player. Lim's team manager discloses that Lim not only practiced against IntoTheRainbow, but also a few other "outside specialists" brought in by the team just for the occasion. Bak's team manager reveals that all 9 members of the Hanbitstars team locked themselves up in a practice room for the past week doing nothing else but help Bak prepare for the game of his life. And you're wondering why the Koreans are so tough in SC? Sheesh.

- You wanna hear about professionalism? Reach took some time off the day before game day to check out the physical grounds of where he would be playing. "Image training" he called it, to familiarize himself with the look and feel of the place he was going to face Boxer. Wow.

- Throughout all the pre-game show and hype on stage, Boxer looks very relaxed, looks around and smiles a lot. Lim also comes THIS CLOSE to saying "Hi, mom!" to the TV cameras, but catches himself, probably only cuz he realizes that his mom and dad aren't home watching and are actually there in the front row. Reach, on the other hand, looks tense and nervous (he admits this, too). But his face changes just prior to entering his isolation booth for the game: it's a determined scowl and a "game face" that says "BRING IT ON."

Okay. So, let's get it on:


THE GAME

1. [Oops]Reach (P) ("Bak Jung-seok") v SlayerS_`BoxeR` (T) ("LIm Yo-hwan") - Gaema Gowon

In 6 of the 9 OGN Starleague and King of Kings finals held so far (not including this one), the player who won the first match went on to win the series, so the first game's BIG. Conventional wisdom says the map should favor Terran, with TvP match-ups going 5-2 so far. Lim himself is 3-0 on Gaema and has thoroughly dominated his opponents on its hilly confines, most recently v ElkY. But, Bak has also been invincible on Gaema so far (4-0) and boasts a nearly 70% win percentage v T in all OGN play, with recent wins v both ElkY and Sync. So, what happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?

Luck shines on Reach (@2) right from the get-go when his scouting probe gets Boxer's (@8) main correctly on the first try. Sneaks in before Boxer even has a chance to seal up his entrance. Bak goes one gate, cyber, fast goon tech. His scouting probe inexplicably leaves Boxer's main before Boxer's really even started on anything. Weird. Has people thinking maybe it's going to build something somewhere close - or it's just to psych out Lim. Lim, meanwhile hasn't even scouted out Reach yet and has fast double cc ready after only 1 fac 1 rax - Lim knows he can do the D and looks to take his natural before Reach knows what's happening. Reach adds gates and shows power goon. Lim moves out with marine/tank force and sets up perimeter D near the cc he's just planted at his natural. Has siege/turret/bunkers deployed and looking mean, so a shuttle drop seems prohibitive - NOT. Reach makes me eat my words when he sends a combined goon/lot force both full-on and around Boxer's hill natural (overlooking the 1st natural), attacking Boxer's expo on two fronts. Tears up most of Boxer's defenses, altho Lim manages to hold it off eventually with scvs madly repairing the lone bunker. But, the message from Reach is clear: "This is MY house and I'll be dictating this game, thx." An ominous (if you're a Boxer fan) preview of the destruction Reach was going to visit on poor Boxer. Why? Because during the attack, Reach has not only finished his own hill natural, but started on another expo at 12. I Could hear fans screaming "MASS TOSS!"

Boxer's committed himself to bio-mech now, increasing the number of rax and facs. Confidently moves out an impressive force of rine/medic/tanks to take the center away from the half-dozen goons dancing in the area. Goons back away, but start to melt when they get caught. Reach looks in trouble and I'm thinking "implosion" when out of no where strikes two dozen speed-upgraded lots and goon, wiping out the bulk of Boxer's expeditionary force. Holy. Reach presses the advantage now and starts taking the fight to Boxer with a hi-temp drop overlooking Boxer's natural min patch. Zaps maybe half-dozen scvs before being chased by rines and siege fire. Bak's got another expo going at 11 main (giving him at this point 3 expos going full throttle v Lim's 1) and Bak goes all out mass toss. Soon adds another expo at 11 nat (now he has 4). Lim finally shows his first dropship and swings it to Reach's 12 expo - except Reach has wallpapered cannons at every expo he has (NOTE: I think Korean toss users need to do this more. Use cannons. They provide the best static defense out of all the races. They are good.) and Boxer has no choice but to drop his cargo of tanks and rines harmlessly into a waiting squad of zealots and goons. Bak's pissed off now and turns up the heat - jumps to ARBITER. Reach makes a minor lot/dt drop at Lim's main, not really to cripple, but just to keep Boxer honest about D at his main. Lim's finally started on his hill nat, but Bak's also warped in another nexus at the 11 main nat (now he has 5 expos ...!!!). Boxer sensing Reach's expo situation getting out of hand, sends a two-dropship strike to take out Reach's 11 main expo - but that expo now has almost as many gates (NINE of them by the time the drop's over, omg) and buildings as Reach's main, and his tanks and rines get clobbered and squished like ants. Reach attack-maneuvers a sizable Arbiter/goon force directly to Boxer's natural and while shuttle dropping on Lim's main. Oh yeah: and Reach has another expo at 3. The number of expos is now 6 and I'm thinking this is getting ugly. Bak's drop levels many of the buildings around Boxer's main cc. But that's just to clear some room for what's to come: Arbiter goon recall. Boxer ignores all the destruction at his main and has pushed a sizable vult/tank/rine/medic force into the center map area. But, so what? I now count 8 expos for Reach. Reach sends in maybe two-dozen goons, lots, temps, obs, archons and an Arb to wipe the center clean, not really because he wanted to, but because his unit count had maxed and he needed to get rid of a few. Boxer, bravely, almost ridiculously, tries to mount another offensive (say what you will about the guy: he's no quitter), but Reach's next and final mass push of fully upgraded goons/zealots/temps supported by obs and arbiter is unstoppable. Boxer finally ends it and wipes his sweat-drenched face with a sigh.

Reach absolutely annihilates Boxer in a classic Reach game. Incredible. I haven't seen this many expos since the last time I watched a baseball game involving Montreal. Hey, Lim, NO ONE beats Reach if you let him have 8 expos. Not you, not Nada, not GOD, ok?

[After the Match] Garimto, when asked about the match he just watched: "Players are usually lucky if they utilize even 50% of their normal playing ability in the finals [because of the pressure]. I just watched Reach play at 120%."


2. [Oops]Reach (P) ("Bak Jung-seok") v SlayerS_`BoxeR` (T) ("LIm Yo-hwan") - Neo Bifrost

Neo Bifrost is another map that's been kind to Reach: this is where he got his Mudang Scarab nick in that memorable game v Sync (I had written elsewhere that Reach's Reaver had 30 kills in that match. OGN commentator Mr. Kim Do-hyung states that figure is wrong. It's MORE. According to him, it was 40 kills. Halp...). On the other hand, Boxer lost to [Dak]ddong (P) (aka forU) on this map in the NATE Starleague round of 16. Only one player has ever come back to win it all in an OGN-sponsored final after being down 0-2: Grrr (v TheBoy (Z) in the 2001 KoKs final). You can bet Boxer didn't want to put himself in that kind of hole against Reach.

Things don't start out well for Boxer, tho. Reach's (@7) scouting probe assimilator rushes him right off the bat. Boxer (@2) supply blocks his entrance shut while building a forward rax just outside of the east wall of Reach's main. Boxer has a plan! Boxer goes fast rear nat expansion. His rax gets floated into Reach's main and touches down just on the path leading from Reach's main min patch to the ramp that goes up to the rear natural. Amazingly, this actually blocks the passage (hey, who knew?) and leaves Boxer to pump out rines to gun down Reach's probes from the hill overlooking the min patch at leisure. Reach sends a single zealot to pound on the building, but Boxer's scouting scv had scooted in behind the rax before touchdown and starts repairing from the other side. Meanwhile, Boxer's pumped out 3 rines and they're just having a great time spraying the mining probes with pulse-rifle fire while talking about the weather and smoking a drag. Reach sends a goon to help the lone zealot and Boxer makes the huge mistake of letting his scv get killed. Now, he can't make a bunker for the rines and once the rax gets torn down, the lot and goon make short work of them.

Lim's initial foray over, he concentrates on 3 rax bio at his main. Bio?! Bak's gone standard 2 gate power goon and parks 6 of 'em in front of Lim's entrance. Boxer moves out with a sizable rine/medic battle group and here's where we see some gosu microing by both players, especially Reach, slowly attack microing back the goon group as a whole, while also microing the goons lowest in energy to the rear of the group and out of harm's way. Boxer's rine/medic force gets beaten back, while Reach's goons, almost all of them still alive, again push forward into Boxer's main. The goons do some damage to rines and medics being pumped out before getting offed. Boxer bunker blocks his entrance and goes to 4 rax 2 fac bio/mech vult/tank/rine/medic. Reach counters with dt + temp tech. Lim expos at 5. Bak adds rear nat, 11 and 12 middle expo + 3 gates. He also starts Carrier tech at his 11 expo. Uh, oh. Here we go again.

Bak temp drops twice at Boxer's 5 expo and fries a dozen scvs. Boxer, sensing the tide turning, desperately expos at 6 and defends with tanks when he's discovered by Reach's roving goons. These goons get repulsed to the center where they're promptly sandwiched between the 6 expo tanks and the tanks and rines from Boxer's main. The goons look ready to be relieved of their existence when a huge battle group of zealots swoop in and wipe out the tanks and rines. Boxer tries stemming the bleeding by tank dropping the 11 expo hill, but Bak's solid with D, having already placed a pylon and cannons there. Bak's now showing 5 Carriers and attacks Boxer's 5 expo. Lim tries countering with gols and a dozen or so ghosts and succeeds in locking down the Carriers and a few of the supporting goons. But Reach is relentless and pounces almost right after with even more goons and lots in wave after punishing wave. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Boxer at this point.

Boxer may have made a game of it if he hadn't lost that scv in the beginning. But then again what business did he have opening bio marine/medic?! Boxer gets beat down again by Reach and things look pretty grim for our Terran Emperor.

[After the Match] Lim's team manager jumps into Lim's isolation booth and gives him an encouraging pat on the back. Lim has his eyes closed, head tilted back and lets out a sigh. Yep, he's in trouble. Meanwhile, Bak still has that intense expression on his face and looks about ready to bash his head againt his computer monitor. Talk about intensity.


3. [Oops]Reach (P) ("Bak Jung-seok") v SlayerS_`BoxeR` (T) ("LIm Yo-hwan") - Neo Vertigo

A relatively quick game that showed Boxer at his intelligent best. Reach (@2) again fast techs to goons + obs, while Boxer (@4) goes fast double cc at his hill natural. Shows rax/fac/starport for early drops. Bak fast expos 11 main, 11 nat, 7 main and 7 nat. Uh, oh again. Boxer tries his first drop right up from his main to Reach's, but Bak's positioned a half dozen goons beautifully in between and the dropship disnintegrates with tanks still on board. Things shift in Reach's favor now and Bak goes fast Carrier tech at his 11 main expo, despite the absence still of solid ground superiority - a gamble that Boxer makes Reach pay for. Boxer discovers the 11 Carrier tech when he tank drops there. Boxer swiftly scrambles in a vulture squad to erase the 11 expo probes. Reach tries defending with the few Carriers he's just gotten, but Lim sends wave after wave of gols and vults, all the while swinging dropships all over the map to harass Reach's expos. The last of the Carriers get taken out by gols and the vults do the rest on Bak's expos.

Bak gambles when he had the clear advantage early and loses big time. Boxer took advantage of the first mistake his opponent made and finishes it off - just like he always does. Boxer looks ready to be mean again...


4. [Oops]Reach (P) ("Bak Jung-seok") v SlayerS_`BoxeR` (T) ("LIm Yo-hwan") - Neo Forbidden Zone

The best match of the night. They polled ten pro gamers about who they thought would win on each map. They split right down the middle when it came to Neo FZ. 5 voted for Reach, while Elky and 4 others went with Boxer, probably because they all know first-hand just how machine perfect Boxer is on semi-islands. Boxer's looks like he has his groove back after that quick dismantling on Neo Vertigo. He also knows he can level the field with this one win.

Boxer (@11) clearly doesn't want to get out-muscled again and boldly opens with 1 supply double cc. That's taking a chance considering he knows Reach (@1) will go the customary goon/shuttle/reaver tech (well, "customary" unless of course you're Nal_Ra...). Lim lands his now-complete second cc at his natural while sending out scouting marines from his 2 rax 1 fac. Bak's scouting probe initially misses Lim's fast natural, but Bak doesn't miss Boxer's main and promptly shuttle drops a reaver. The reaver manages to register 11 rines + scv kills before being caught by stim-packed marines. Bak's started on his own natural by now and looks ready to negate Lim's initial resource advantage. He continues to push the offensive and tries a reaver/shuttle/goon combo on Boxer's natural, then a reaver/goon drop at the 11 main. Both are stopped by tanks/turrets and rines. But, of course, no one drops on Boxer without retaliation times infinity: Lim reacts promptly and viciously, surprising Reach's natural with 3 tanks and a squad of rine/medics. Bak buys time with back-tracking goons and dts, then finishes the stop with a just-in-time 2 reaver drop on the intruders. And Reach isn't finished yet: counters right back with 2 reaver 3 dt drop at Boxer's main. Damage is only cosmetic tho, Boxer's turrets and tanks forming airtight D. Boxer hits back and tries to push Reach's natural again - and again he's stopped. The action now is FURIOUS, with both players attacking and countering in quick succession, one after the other, neither willing to let the other player take the initiative. Think one of those intense sequences in a Rocky movie where both fighters go toe-to-toe, neither giving an inch and you'd get a general feel for what's going on at this point. Oh, man...

Reach prepares to turns things up a notch by expanding both 5 natural and the middle-right expo. But this leaves Reach vulnerable to a precisely-timed ("How the heck does Boxer do that?!") 2 ship tank/vult drop on Bak's main and starts laying waste to the place. Reach looks to be in trouble here with the vults and tanks doing some damage. But Reach doesn't panic and coolly stops the bleeding with shuttled in reavers/goons/dts. But, now it's Boxer's turn to ratchet up the heat and he quickly mass tank/vult drops Reach's newly warped-in 5 natural and then the middle-right expo one after the other. I thought Reach's middle expo was toast there were so many tanks and vults involved in the assault, but Reach reacts with shuttled hi-temps and mudang storms the place until every moving unit is wiped out, including Boxer's dropships. omg. Undeterred, Boxer presses the attack and 2 ship tanks the 5 natural again with massive ground vult support. The place looks ready to buckle when Reach's temps arrive and mudang storms Boxer's units into a crisp again! But the best from Boxer is yet to come. While he was swinging all his dropships, Boxer had expoed the 7 main natural and had quietly massed a phalanx of tanks and vultures. Boxer hits Reach's 2 natural with everything he has, including a group of scvs. The live crowd lets out a collective gasp when Boxer's army appears at Reach's doorstep. The force quickly overwhelms the small contingent of zealot defenders and, with the scvs planting turrets like it was a plantation, the 2 natural looks ready to be finally leveled.

And this is where the battle turns - but not for Boxer.

Bak refuses to quit and sends all his goons and lots from his 5 nat up to counter Boxer's push, microing everything on the screen in a furious blur of hands and clicks and pushing, pushing, pushing back Boxer's seemed-to-be-invincible tank force. OMG. It's a miracle-stop. The crowd's going nuts and the OGN commentator has LOST HIS VOICE from screaming so hard - I shit you not. Reach is GOD. And Boxer looks stunned. He pounded Reach with everything he had and Bak just took it. No one can believe this is happening. And now it's payback time. Bak storm-decimates Boxer's scv work-force in the middle-left expo. Reach, going to his end-game, has expoed both the middle-bottom and the 5 main and jumps to Carriers there. Boxer desperately tries to extinguish the 5 main Carrier tech with mass drops, but he's stopped again by Bak's mudang storms and some very well-positioned cannons. Exhausted and sensing things slipping away, Boxer launches the remainder of his tank forces on a last-ditch effort to push Reach's 2 natural again - and again gets stopped dead by (you guessed it) kamikaze mudang storm combined with shuttle dropped probes (!). Reach knows victory is his now, and starts razing what seems to be all of Boxer's expos at once with mass goons, carriers and lots. The crowd's on its feet. Boxer's 10 natural gets obliterated when all units there get deep-fried by maybe 5-6 mudang storm covering the entire base all at once. Heaven, Lightening and Thunder!!! Like friggin' New Years' Eve. Boxer's had enough and types out.

Reach outplays and out-HEARTS Boxer in a very intense and entertaining final and deciding match. Whether you're a newbie just wanting to learn or an old hack needing a wake-up call, I suggest you catch the VoD of this game and pump up the volume so you can hear the roar of the crowd: this is what Starcraft is all about.

After the game, the OGN commentators dub a new nick name for Bak: "Hero Toss." Hero indeed. I think I may be convinced to modify my thinking on the race imbalance question after all. And, oh yeah, for correctly calling the outcome of this classic duel, while enduring endless ribbing and chiding and insults from fans and site-mates alike, I'm giving MYSELF the No-Prize.

[EDIT] Some additional info:

- As already reported by Waxangel, Lim angrily left the IS team after his loss to Reach. His father blamed IS for the loss because of their failure to procure adequate practice partners for Lim in preparation for the finals. However, after a little digging, I found that this may have just been the "straw that broke the camel's back." Apparently, there had been some tension between Lim's family and IS since last June, when Lim's father held IS responsible for Lim's uncharacteristically poor form due to the tight packing of his schedule (TV + radio appearances, movies, etc...). Tensions rose again recently because the father felt that Lim wasn't getting a fair share of his earnings commensurate with his star status. One way or another, things just weren't working out there for Lim.

- Korean TV and news sources estimated the crowd at the Saturday final at 20,000. OGN had estimated 15,000. Whatever: it's a lot.

- A Korean newspaper polled 4 pro gamers prior to the game (separate from the OGN poll) about their thoughts on the final: Sync, V_Gundam, ElkY and Jinnam. All of them predicted a win by Reach. Gundam correctly guessed the final match score at 3-1. But Sync (who guessed 3-2) made an amazingly prescient analysis of the reasons why:

Gaema Gowon: "Mass strats all the way."
Neo Vertigo: "Terran (Lim) will have the strategic advantage."
Neo Forbidden Zone: "Tough for Lim because of the difficulties establishing the natural."

All of the pros polled here also predicted a Reach win on Neo Bifrost, citing that the match would likely turn on resource-gathering. Hey, they're not pros for nothing.
actus non facit reum, nisi mens sit rea.
mensrea
Profile Joined September 2002
Canada5062 Posts
October 13 2002 18:48 GMT
#2
Apologies people. I was called away for the weekend. Couldn't be avoided. Better late than never, I hope... |
actus non facit reum, nisi mens sit rea.
NoName
Profile Joined October 2002
United States1558 Posts
October 13 2002 19:17 GMT
#3
TYVM, I know it is worth the wait. Like fine wine, it takes time. Now off to read this masterpiece... You are sooo
Wam-bam-ba-boom! Bada-bing!
NoName
Profile Joined October 2002
United States1558 Posts
October 13 2002 20:02 GMT
#4
great job. that was such an exciting report. i hope the vod links are posted soon. i have to see how Reach beat back that big vulture/tank push in game #4.

so boxer went MM/metal in games #1 and #2? it must have worked in his practice games, so he was confident with the builds. he didn't try to use nada's "boring" metal push strats against reach. i guess he doesn't want to copy anyone, he is the terran emperor after all.
Wam-bam-ba-boom! Bada-bing!
Penguin
Profile Joined October 2002
Australia388 Posts
October 13 2002 20:14 GMT
#5
Great Job Mensrea, was a lil pissed that it was late, but...u made up for it by presenting a nice report...

Keep it up!
Live and let live...
Penguin
Profile Joined October 2002
Australia388 Posts
October 13 2002 20:16 GMT
#6
O...btw, dun u think boxer tried to do wat nada at the kpga finals?

Nada seemed to own Reach by using a MM force...
I think boxer tried to experiment by using Nada's style, due to the fact that it worked?
Live and let live...
NoName
Profile Joined October 2002
United States1558 Posts
October 13 2002 20:22 GMT
#7
Yah.. i just reread the kpga finals report. #3 nada went with M&M, and it sounded like it was effective against Reach, even if it didn't decide the game. Someone even commented that they thought boxer was going to try using the same strat.

I wonder if difference was Reach was just more prepared/practiced to deal with M&M this time around?
Wam-bam-ba-boom! Bada-bing!
AlmostSexy
Profile Joined October 2002
United States150 Posts
October 13 2002 20:41 GMT
#8
Great Report!! Thank you I would like to remind you that Reach prepared for this match like a madman, he was not the same reach that lost 3-0 to nada. He was in the zone!!
...
mensrea
Profile Joined September 2002
Canada5062 Posts
October 13 2002 20:49 GMT
#9
I don't think Boxer's M&M was based on anything Nada had done in the kpga. Remember, Nada's victory was really made possible because of his superior metal, and the M&M strat wasn't really decisive. It was tried more for variety than anything else. Boxer's MM had a different look and feel to it: less metal support in general. It certainly didn't look anywhere near as dangerous as Nada's.
actus non facit reum, nisi mens sit rea.
StuFFofLegenDS
Profile Joined October 2002
United States245 Posts
October 13 2002 20:51 GMT
#10
Nicely done Mensrea. Is it just me or was there something of a pro-Reach bias permeating this report?
And NO sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find...I shall KILL you.
mensrea
Profile Joined September 2002
Canada5062 Posts
October 13 2002 20:56 GMT
#11
On October 14 2002 05:51 StuFFofLegenDS wrote:
Nicely done Mensrea. Is it just me or was there something of a pro-Reach bias permeating this report?


Yes, but only because Reach was the better player.
actus non facit reum, nisi mens sit rea.
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
October 13 2002 21:00 GMT
#12
Great report as always. Appreciate the time and effort you put in. Look forward to future reports.

XaI)CyRiC
Moderator
mensrea
Profile Joined September 2002
Canada5062 Posts
October 13 2002 21:01 GMT
#13
Oh, and thx for the kind words people.
actus non facit reum, nisi mens sit rea.
EQUES
Profile Joined October 2002
Sweden150 Posts
Last Edited: 2002-10-14 00:11:58
October 13 2002 21:44 GMT
#14
he's always bias bout the standard ppls cuz he's a lonely outsider.

that one match doesn't means Reach is the better player than BoxeR.
Match is just a Match.

GG Good Game!
yes
EQUES
Profile Joined October 2002
Sweden150 Posts
Last Edited: 2002-10-13 23:33:56
October 13 2002 21:53 GMT
#15
Reach is a good toss player, but i prefer SlayerS_`BoxeR`.

SlayerS_`BoxeR` is the best good korean player i've matched, and very nice.

yes
mensrea
Profile Joined September 2002
Canada5062 Posts
October 13 2002 22:00 GMT
#16
iszard, you may have met Boxer (you keep saying that, like it's your life mantra or something), but I'm sure he's never met you. You're a ridiculous phony and any 3-year old can see that.
actus non facit reum, nisi mens sit rea.
AlmostSexy
Profile Joined October 2002
United States150 Posts
October 13 2002 22:30 GMT
#17
Id say Reach is making a pretty strong argument
...
InToTheWannaB
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4770 Posts
October 13 2002 23:04 GMT
#18
Great report i loved it
When the spirit is not altogether slain, great loss teaches men and women to desire greatly, both for themselves and for others.
EQUES
Profile Joined October 2002
Sweden150 Posts
Last Edited: 2002-10-14 06:23:18
October 13 2002 23:27 GMT
#19
I have no connection with her.

btw, he must stop posting the bias opinions to players or abusing others for his fun.:z
yes
t0yb0x
Profile Joined October 2002
Singapore35 Posts
October 13 2002 23:29 GMT
#20
Is Intotherainbow in the same team as boxer?
When you ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME both.
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