EPTOn November 06 2011 00:45 Zona wrote:
I'm not fond of roman numerals.
I'm not fond of roman numerals.
Steamship Liquidia (TL Mafia 46)
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DCLXVI
United States729 Posts
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DCLXVI
United States729 Posts
##Signup | ||
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DCLXVI
United States729 Posts
Unless we set a low bar for lurkers, I think that many players will qualify as lurkers and so far the general consensus is to lynch them all. I don't think we want to run the risk of "hazards in store for the town that lynches too many players in a particular day" while we don't need to. Instead of setting a certain number of posts/quality to pass/fail, we can determine the 1-2 least helpful/scummiest players and agree to vote them. I don't see any merit in roleclaiming now, or even townie-claiming. If kenpachi and hiroruby would explain why they did so I would be ever so grateful. Personally I will not claim for now, but that is open to change. Both the warning in the OP and the lack of activity so far makes me hesitant to do so. | ||
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DCLXVI
United States729 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote: Lying will come up and you will be able to recognize it. The most prominent example is fake claims. So LAL means no fake claims. + Show Spoiler + Or it means don't get caught lying. Kenpachi's green claim would be an example of a potentially acceptable lie (if he is blue) as this early in the game any claims are meaningless So what is your position on Kenpachi claiming townie? At first you say LAL, but then lying can be acceptable in certain situations, such as kenpachi is blue. Then you say that his claim is meaningless as it is too early in the game. Does that make his post spam/intentionally distracting? Surely he is a good enough player to realize the importance of his claim. Can you explain your opinions on the subject rather than just post vague generalizations. Is kenpachi's claim worth analyzing/what does it mean? see my previous post for what I think on it. On November 15 2011 15:10 bumatlarge wrote: /confirm I'm mostly interested in the multi-lynch. It's possible to blanket votes over multiple scummy players, so if instead of busting LSBs balls on posting piles of garbage, I'll echo the analysis statement. There is no wrong way to do it, just post who and why. And going out of your way to point out someone is acting townie does not help any discussion. I'll vote anyone who has a good argument against them. And since I only know a quarter of the player-base, I'll forgive Hiroruby for his fairly obvious insights, because it's effort and if he can forge that into scumhunting, it makes the town that much stronger. And also I see no reason not to do this. ##Vote Kenpachi And I will most likely not be taking it off until I see something that benefits town come out of his mouth. I don't really care about spam, I'll read all of it anyway so I won't discourage it. It will just help my reads so thats all I'm concerned about. What I read from this is that you will do as LSB wished not to happen: On November 15 2011 14:55 LSB wrote: I'd rather not post any established opinions till later in the day as I want to see what people think, rather than listening to a bunch of parrots. You say that LSB is too vague, then you slack off and "echo" what he said about analysis. You then forgive hiroruby for a vague analysis?, and throw a vote on kenpachi because...? You want him to produce something other than the roleclaim and spam posts I guess? But if we look at your post, you sort of vaguely show interest in one of the topics we are discussing without adding anything, call out LSB for what you are doing, and throw some heat on kenpachi(semi-warranted imo). Where does this help the town though? Sure I could just throw a vote on a player, but if I don't give reasons why I am more productive than them/they are obviously scummy, how does that help the town? Can you actually comment on the multi lynch/roleclaim/bring up another topic/discuss something of importance? Give reasons for what you say rather than just "I'm mostly interested in the multi-lynch". anyways, good night see you in the morning | ||
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United States729 Posts
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On November 16 2011 03:00 Sabin010 wrote: You know I never thought about it like that. did did you just not read the thread then? That option was brought up several times. @LSB I didn't know that kenpachi always townie claims day 1, it has been forever since I have played. It still does not allow him to post 2 other useless one liners and then leave. I just don't think that you should just write off kenpachi so quickly. Zephirrd confirmed early then came back later and actually posted stuff. Once I look that over and see if it is good material I can comment more on it, but at least he posted something. Kenpachi posted useless one liners in response to hiroruby (so there was stuff to talk about, he just decided not to) and then disappeared. I want to see more out out of Kenpachi than this. If he has played enough games for this behavior to be standard, then he should know that this doesn't help the town. ##Vote Kenpachi and now for a new topic: On November 15 2011 12:06 Kibibit wrote: Welp. Here we go. first post is fine, counts for nothing On November 15 2011 12:59 Kibibit wrote: /confirm As far as lurkers go, I'm more or less in agreement on the lynching. what does this mean, you want to lynch inactive people - really? How many, how inactive, why do so? I won't accept you just "more or less agreeing" with people. That is not helpful and super scummy imo. Now after some time has passed and more topics are brought up to discuss: On November 15 2011 21:44 Kibibit wrote: I'm semi-okay with LAL, but there's always the possibility of a newbie getting an important decision and fucking up, so I'd prefer that we at least pressure any liars before we get our nooses out on them. Once again a wishy washy agreement with the general consensus, but not actually taking a side. This is also allowing mafia get away with lying if we used it. On November 16 2011 01:12 Kibibit wrote: Yeah, but what I mean is that not everyone intends to lie. If it's blatant and obvious, I say lynch them immediately, I'm just saying not to overreact to any inconsistencies or the like. Once again you think that it is ok for townies to lie badly, we should cut them some slack? Why are you trying to allow scum to get away with occasional inconsistencies/small lies? All Kibibit has done is to sort of agree with everyone, make excuses for potential liars, and lurk (after he says we should probably lynch lurkers.) ##Vote Kibibit | ||
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United States729 Posts
I don't understand how you "have played many live games" but still are "not sure of all the terms" such as the most basic ones - scum/mob/mafia. Care to explain that rather than just saying that implying two opposites is not lying. Or at least post an opinion in detail on something in your own words? I don't accept your opinion that we should not lynch lurkers. If we don't keep that as a policy, what will motivate bored townies to differentiate themselves from lurking mafia? We may lynch town players when lynching lurkers, but we cannot read players who don't post, so we have to assume they are mafia. Mafia won't shoot lurkers they don't suspect are blue, so they aren't "warm bodies" to protect us as you quoted lemonwalrus. For lying and bad strategy: ##Vote Sabin010 @chaoser FOS is for sissies. vote everyone! And now I'm winning @ greymist Yeah, I did not word the first post as I meant it to read. I was talking about mass lynches, not multi lynches, -like to the point of where the OP warned us against. If you read my later posts I talk about lynching around 1-2 players a day, and then I place votes on two people. Still, since not everyone will vote for the same people I do, me voting for two people will not result in 2 people getting lynched. @kibibit I don't think that townies playing quietly will win the game. If everyone just sits back and agrees with each other it is very easy for a few loud players to influence the game, and should those be capable mafia players the game is lost. However if everyone speaks up it is easier for other townies to understand each other and mafia don't have an easy time guiding the vote. The problem with sort of agreeing with everyone is that mafia members can easily do this and get away with not posting opinions on anything. They can just mimic pro town sentiments, but not actually take a stand on anything making them harder to pin down and logic trap. Therefore any player that I see just 'sort of agreeing' with people I find very suspicious as that is a great way for mafia to look somewhat active and appear positive to the other players. I mean, would you vote for someone who is 'somewhat agreeing' with you? I'm just throwing out ideas on suspicious players as us talking about LAL and lurkers over and over again isn't getting us anywhere, we need to start getting people's opinions on other matters so we can get reads on them, you happen to be one of them. | ||
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my vote on kenpachi was an attempt to get him to post content, but it looks like that will not happen. Taking the vote off now would just undermine that position. @sabino who do you think is the scummiest player right now? Who should we get rid of? After rereading sinani206's posts, I don't see how he is useful to the town. He voted for chaoser, then when asked for explanation he responded with: On November 16 2011 09:07 sinani206 wrote: His posts this game are nothing like what I've seem out of him before and even if I hadn't played with him before, the posts are straight up scummy. The posts are "straight up scummy"? Care to explain why that is? Apparently not because the only other thing you post about is a small disagreement on how the town should focus down lynch candidates. Well at least you backed up your arguments right? oh yeah. Is there anything else you wish to contribute to the town? Perhaps detailing why chaoser is scummy? Or do as you suggested? On November 16 2011 16:26 sinani206 wrote: Why focus when you can divide (your attention) and conquer? Anyone else you find suspicious and why? If you just try to appear active but don't actually post about meaningful stuff, I find it scummy. If in addition you don't include reasons to your arguments, I will vote for you: ##Vote sinani206 | ||
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DCLXVI
United States729 Posts
@Zona can he be put on the banlist for this? I certainly don't want to play with him again: Play to win. Make your posts, and choose targets for your actions in order to help your team achieve its win condition. | ||
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United States729 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:32 chaoser wrote: How can you say he didn't play to win? His case prompted a lot of discussion and activity. Get off your high horse; you're sure as hell not good enough to be bitching about Kenpachi "whining and giving up". since when is it a prerequisite to be good at this game to say that this means someone gave up? + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2011 06:41 Kenpachi wrote: lol town sucks On November 17 2011 06:44 Kenpachi wrote: alright, tell me. Where is this day going? its going to shit. you know why? you guys are lynching me. Fact: When town lynches a town Kenpachi, they lose. you know why? because town sucks. Killing off inactives with lynches is just so bad. lrn2play On November 17 2011 06:48 Kenpachi wrote: im going to fucking shoot myself. Walrus and risk.nuke need more experience because this is ridiculous On November 17 2011 06:55 Kenpachi wrote: i can do better than that. you guys are just so demoralizing On November 17 2011 07:06 Kenpachi wrote: very well. gg i surrender you win mafia On November 17 2011 07:07 Kenpachi wrote: "gg i surrender" On November 17 2011 08:51 Kenpachi wrote: No i want to piss you all off On November 17 2011 08:57 Kenpachi wrote: ##Vote: Kenpachi Im the Doctor that can only protect greens. oh and i also function as a watcher. On November 17 2011 08:58 Kenpachi wrote: now that i proved that you guys are indeed retards, i have no regrets. implies i have a role On November 17 2011 09:06 Kenpachi wrote: This is the first in a long time since i went defeatist. the first time, i was really bad. this time, you deserved the punishment. srs and it goes on.... | ||
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United States729 Posts
On November 17 2011 09:42 chaoser wrote: Kenpachi is way better than you are. I don't think he's missed a single vigi shot at mafia and I'd sure as hell rather have him at end game than you. That doesn't mean shit if he just gives up day 1. You can play with sore losers if you want, but I don't. | ||
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United States729 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=107918¤tpage=All I honestly think we should take his own advise: On November 17 2011 08:36 Drazerk wrote: Or just kill him so he stops being distracting I would also like to see why he has mentioned twice that he will not be lynched. Either way, he is certainly not trying to help the town given his multitude of useless one liners and lack of actually thought out posts. ##Vote Drazerk | ||
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On November 18 2011 06:55 Kenpachi wrote: what my flip does: It softconfirms Lanaia. that is all well I think that I will know a lot about chaoser when you flip | ||
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United States729 Posts
I would rather wait until morning to start discussing again so I can start throwing down votes, I trust the remaining blues to use their roles wisely. | ||
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United States729 Posts
On November 19 2011 05:43 wherebugsgo wrote: While we're all here twiddling thumbs and throwing around lists of people who we think are scum/town, let's analyze this Palmar/chaoser business, shall we? ....................................... What? Most of this post doesn't make sense because chaoser says Palmar kept forgetting to comment on Drazerk, although all of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk... I think the "I is confused" line should be used by anyone reading chaoser's post, which is ironic. Chasing only Drazerk is scummy because there are dozens of other things that happened yesterday. Myself and Palmar posted a case on chaoser, the Lanaia/kenpachi business blew up, Coag voted an already-hammered person, sinani was taking votes for no apparent reason, and LSB was active at the beginning only to competely disappear later. Saying that Palmar only went after him is another mischaracterization, since he responded to the other things that were going on yesterday and was rather transparent with other players. Unlike, of course, chaoser. "All of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk"? Are you deliberately lying in hope that no one will read all of this, or do you honestly believe that what Palmar said constitutes as analysis? To me analysis is detailed reasoning backed up with direct quotations, not "he is playing badly" or "he is useless and scummy" I am also not sure where you got this: (wbg) Saying that Palmar only went after [chaoser] is another mischaracterization out of this: (palmar) We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. | ||
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On November 19 2011 06:43 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Palmar and WBG: You both think it is fine if Drazerk gets vigged, but you both unvoted him and we came so close to getting him lynched yesterday. Please explain why you didn't want him lynched, but are fine with him being shot. aww I was just about to bring this up. Palmer calls Drazerk useless and scummy, says other people can push for that lynch but he won't, and then unvotes him when the lynch seems to be between Drazerk and sinani. Palmer said he wanted 2 lynches yesterday, but when the vote is between a person he suspects(Drazerk) and one he does not(sinani), he unvotes the one he suspects and wanted lynched. I would be fine with lynching Drazerk or even Bumatlarge. I just want another lynch outside of Kenpachi, and I have been convinced that Lanaia should be left alive for now, mostly by risk.nuke and tyrren whom I both consider town. I don't have time right now to build a case against Drazerk, and because I only think we should lynch one person outside of Kenpachi today, my attention is completely on chaoser, whom I consider very likely to be scum at the moment. We need a single lynch for today based on analysis. We've already achieved a Kenpachi lynch, and we're ruling out Lanaia for now. I think this lynch should be chaoser, but I encourage people to make a case for someone else. ##Vote Bumatlarge ##Vote Nisani201 ##Vote chaoser ##Vote Lemonwalrus ##Unvote Drazerk ##Unvote Coagulation of course he found the time to build cases around those other three right? He made a small arguments for lemon and bum that he never pushed, and nothing about nisani. Literally no analysis about him. This leaves me confused as to why he didn't want Drazerk lynched. Before the day ends he offered no reason as to why Drazerk should live over sinani. Even if he thinks that chaoser is a better vote, he cannot just ignore every other lynch candidate. Palmar says that he is fine with either Bum or Drazerk being lynched, but when Drazerk is close to being lynched, Palmar switches his vote. I'm going to go read up on WBG in regard to Drazerk, not sure about that. By the time this is posted there will be another page or two of spam... Palmar, WBG, and Chaoser: Please stop shitting all over the thread with your shouting matches. very much this. A whole page of spam created while I write a post is absurd. | ||
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On November 19 2011 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote: no, actually, I'm just tired of dealing with you right now. And tbh in TMM why do you think I pushed sandro's lynch over yours when I saw you suspected him? He was a much bigger threat than you, because you were dumb and thought he was scum. I knew I could get a mislynch on one of you but I had to play correctly in order to do it. Once I found out you were the doctor I continued my push but switched to sandro because I knew you were dumb enough to follow me. Right. At no point did what you say have actual relevance to the game at hand. Of course it was. If you actually think chaoser is pushing a good case then you should ask yourself why he voted sinani. Did chaoser analyze sinani like Palmar and I did? Nope. Did chaoser provide reasons for his votes like Palmar and I did? Nope. So what are you arguing again? That Palmar didn't analyze Drazerk? Stop being thick. If this isn't reasoning, I don't know what is: You don't need to break down a person quote by quote to call it analysis. This is why I want people to read the thread, because it is clear by some of your responses that you are not doing so. I think you missed the point of my post. chaoser questions where Palmer's promised analysis on Drazerk is. You claim that Drazerk did analyse him, but the only 'analysis' of Drazerk AFTER Palmar promised to do so was: Drazerk has done some extremely bad things this game, the most hilarious of all was when he went through his own games go convince us he's bad at this. I mean... I have no words, his actual defense is that he is terrible at mafia? To me this is not detailed analysis. To sway the town to vote for someone you suspect you should build an argument that is more than just laughing off the player. List all of the examples of poor play, give reasons as to why his play is poor. Would you honestly accept me saying something on the order of: "WBG has made some pretty scummy plays including spamming up the thread by arguing with chaoser", including several other posts with nothing relevant, as analysis? although all of the quotes contain analysis of Drazerk chaoser brought up the point that Palmar did not follow through with what he said he would do. Stop trying to make this about chaoser's analysis, I am talking about Palmar's lack of one. | ||
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After reading through his filter I noticed a few things. He starts off cool headed and logical, arguing in a way I appreciate. He spends his time arguing about the LAL and lurkers we got bogged down in the first 36 hours. The interesting bit about that is that he says that he wants to lynch a lurker or two per day to prevent lurkers, but to also not slaughter bored townies too quickly. He then jumps on the Kenpachi bandwagon, apparently that was a good lurker to lynch... He also makes a small case on Hiroruby which was forgotten about as louder players took over the thread. While it was on a mildly telling post or two and imo not enough to lynch on, it should be reconsidered today. While RoL is a different player, we should not forget what Hiroruby said. Unfortunately, prplhz does not reinforce his arguments and so later in the day he instead opts to abandon logic in favor of volume in hopes of being heard over the chaoser/wbg/palmar shouting match. Based on his claims today he did this because he did not have time to make long convincing posts, and was too late to provide a reason to not lynch sinani. That last part is scummy, however the rest of it is not enough to warrant a lynch just yet. I do not agree with him that votes without a stated reason should be considered thought out, and that caps lock equals a convincing statement, but I suppose we all have different views on how much time should be committed to the game. Either I can believe that he did not have time for long posts or he wanted sinani dead, I have not made up my mind. also forumite, why did you react so harshly to coag's post? While I agree that he should have done what he asked in the post, it just seems to me you over reacted. On November 19 2011 20:42 Forumite wrote: If you are going to accuse me of something, why don´t you just go out and say it? You know that I, and perhaps others, answered LSB's post, me with how I thought it was unlikely he would get shot. Does that make me scum now? Because it really sounds like you WANT to accuse me of being scum without having to say it out loud, and I can´t find a reason for you to want to do that unless you are either terribly lazy and didn´t bother to check the relevant posts, or you are doing some sneaky anti-Town play. We want Transparency, say what you want to say, don´t just drop hints. Hinting vaguely is just one way to avoid guilt, drop hints to make Town focus on a player, then divorce yourself from the bandwagon by explaining that your hints meant something else. I don´t have to spell out that this is a tactic for Scum, not Town. ##Vote: prplhz now im going to sleep for ~20 hours, ill answer any more questions then and I look forward to your opinion on me Palmar. I won't cast any votes now, later in the day I will. | ||
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United States729 Posts
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neither of them really posted anything of consequence today, although sabino did suggest voting 6 of us off because he is pretty sure there are around 3 mafia in these six: + Show Spoiler + On November 19 2011 00:54 Sabin010 wrote: This post started the the voting for Kenpachi. The following people voted yes on both lynches. DCLXVU, Drazerk, Zephirdd, Riske.nuke, Tyrran, Lemon Walrus, and Cyber_Cheese. Drazerk FoS'd Sinani first, and Chaoser started the voting for him. If Bumatlarge was mafia out of the people that put 2 yes votes on the two who are dead the following DID NOT vote for Bumatlarge, DCLXVI, Drazerk, Zephirdd, Tyrran, Cyber_Cheese. If I'm hit tonight there is a good chance there are at 3 or more Mafia out of those 6 people, but if Bumatlarge is not mafia I need to go and re-analyze the data. On November 19 2011 17:52 Sabin010 wrote: Rebirthoflegend dude I hope you're not mafia because I had a list of six guys who were potential mafia, and I'm really drunk rigght now, but if I was right we got at least 3 of these guys (Bumatlarge, DCLXVI, Drazerk, Zephirdd, Tyrran, Cyber_Cheese) as mafia. I made a post earlier expaining how I came to the conclusion, but after seeing a new person and being drunk on a friday night lets lynch them. On November 19 2011 17:53 Sabin010 wrote: oh yeah and if half of those guys are mafia we're tradingg 1:1 while we still have a numbers advantage. I do not think it would be in the town's favor to lynch that many people in a day given the weak analysis and just going by 2 votes. Still, I am through with voting bad townies, so I do not think sabino or kibibit should go today. They are too hard to read given their lack of posts and I think we can find better targets today. @forumite/risk.nuke lol @prplhz I see nothing suspicious in his posts other than he too voted for both of the lynched blues yesterday. Why do you keep asking about him? Am I missing something? | ||
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