EPT![[image loading]](http://makeagif.com/media/9-16-2011/7by9fP.gif)
Pick Your Power Interesting!
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
| ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
| ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
| ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
On October 12 2011 12:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote: When do cycles begin, with the day, or including the night before? On September 28 2011 12:22 Protactinium wrote: [/list][*]Time Cycle: 48/24, Deadline at 03:00 GMT (+00:00) On September 28 2011 12:22 Protactinium wrote: 28. Scamp 27 of 27 players remain ? On October 12 2011 11:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'm spending my 3k post to tell you all how much I love you. <3 (Also because I need to play the game, and can't do that without posting.  )<3 | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
Almost half the player-base is Mafia. This makes denying powerful mafia roles nearly impossible, and not cost effective. The best course for the role picking phase will be for us to focus on getting good town roles, and letting the various mafia parties fight among themselves for the good mafia roles. (Denying each other good combos in the process) On that note, I want to know if you guys think it's a good idea to make a coordinated list of powerful town roles, or a bad idea. The obvious upside is that if we coordinate our picks then we have a higher chance of getting more roles, but at the cost of letting every mafia knowing the general location of certain power roles. I for one am against this sort of ordering. It's called Pick YOUR power, Not Pick THEIR Power. I'll pick my own role, thank you. | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
Thief should be forced to steal the most imba mafia role immediately, as this will both confirm that he is thief, that thief can't be used again, and whether or not the person who was supposed to pick the imba role actually picked it or not. That being said, I'm still mulling over the possible advantages of assigning the top 4-5 spots. I originally thought that it was a bad idea, because mafia will likely deny themselves powerful combinations, but it might be a good idea to try to assign a role that is really imba by itself. (The part that I'm still looking over is whether or not there is actually a role that powerful by itself that we need to assign it.) | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
The downside to assigning the top spots is that everyone then knows where those roles are. Particularly mafia. There will always be two parties with KP that know they didn't get role X in the top 6, and that it's a powerful role. It's going to turn it into a killing ground that will end with everyone dead. By not assigning roles there you leave open the possibility that people will pick BP, or Vet, and suddenly it's a less attractive place to park your bullet. Assassin shouldn't be on that list because as you your self said, it's able to work while remaining hidden. If you can't tell if the assassin is being used, or is responsible for a certain kill, how are you going to enforce accountability with that role? Think of it this way: In a game with more than two parties, you HAVE to try to do good things for you, not bad things to them, because any action you take to benefit yourself will be three times as beneficial as any action you take to harm them, because you must harm THREE other parties. This is an oversimplification, but to make myself clear, if you have four teams and each start with 0 points, when you give yourself 1 point, you are 1 point ahead of everyone. If you take a point away from another team, you are one point ahead of ONE person. You'd have to take away one point from each team to get the same net gain. I believe that that principal will still apply to this situation despite the fact that it's more complicated. I'm not dead set in this thinking, but currently it is what makes the most sense to me. | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
Look at it from their point of view: If you get assigned inventor, pick Hero or BP, let a teammate pick inventor. If we find out, we vig/lynch the top player. Sure it's a red, but it doesn't help the fact that we still don't know where the inventor is. Make sense? | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
| ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
On October 13 2011 05:15 Radfield wrote: Finally getting some good arguments, and finally getting some good support. This is good stuff. Jimbo, I hear what you're saying, and agree with much of it. I also understand your point analogy very well. However in this case I'm imagining that the accountability picks are effective against all three mafia teams, hence giving us a leg up on all of them. Not only vs 1 particular team(in fact I'm not even sure how that would work at this stage) I also agree that it is likely the top picks will be fiercely targeted by the mafia. However, I'm ok with that as if the thief, Roleswapper and assassin all die that is ok with me. Inventor we want to protect, and we can heap our protection upon him. Also, and I want to stress this, mafia are more likely to have those dangerous top spots. Although there are more townies numerically, each mafia team gets to co-ordinate their picks, meaning they are far less likely to collide. This means that the potential killing ground of picks 1-5 is not so bad for town after all. And since mafia are getting those top picks anyways, we might as well assign them to them, no? This is an excellent point. In fact, I think the main problem people have with the accountability picks is the threat of mafia letting the picks slip down to a scumbuddy. So, what if we added in a player who takes one of the top picks randomly, just to see if there is slippage going on: #1 Inventor #2 Assassin #3 Thief #4 Role Swapper #5 25% chance of either Inventor, Assassin, Thief or Swapper or #1 Inventor #2 Thief #3 Role Swapper #4 33% chance of either Inventor, Thief or Swapper Something like this. That makes it much more risky to try and let a role slip down to a scum buddy. Honestly, I'm not necessarily sold that we NEED to have accountability picks, but I do think they have potential to be advantageous to town. Keep in mind, the only real goal is to NOT let the inventor fall into the hands of an anonymous mafia player. I think this is a good goal, and one worthy of discussion. I like this better. I think that it could be improved a little, by making it only four or three picks: Inventor, 2-1 mafia roles, and a random role person. If we include the Role swapper, obviously he should switch the thief and inventor, then have the thief steal the inventor's role, as that will nullify those abilities immediately. My list of 4 would be 1) Inventor 2) Framer (This is incredibly powerful, as it give the power not only to frame, but redirect actions) 3) Thief/role-swapper 4) 33% chance of the above + Show Spoiler + Since these roles all effect eachother, each person would be able to tell if the other person didn't do what they said they would. (i.e, if the role swapper says he swapped roles, the other two will know for certain, etc.) This means that the only way that they could NOT do what we tell them to would be if they all coordinated, and that's never going to happen. + Show Spoiler + If it did, that would mean that an entire team is in the top four, and they are screwed anyways, so even if it did... | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
On October 13 2011 07:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Is there a way to punish scum for passing a role down the line? Should we have picks 6 and 7 safety pick inventor and thief or some combination of the top five roles? That does create two potentially vanilla players but it puts a double safety on scum passing a role down. Even if a scum gets inventor, we can at least be more sure where to look if the people who safety picked turned up vanilla. I like the rng pick one of the top three roles. I don't think mafia are willing to take those odds. | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
#pypi | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
Ninja'd | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
This is the list that Rad preseted: Inventor Assassin Thief Swapper -------------------------- At first look, those don't seem like good roles. The reason why assassin is on there is because he could kill off the top players anonymously, because we assigned them specific roles. The reason the thief is on there is because he could steal top players roles, because we assigned specific roles. The reason the swapper is on there is because he could swap top players, and we can't have that because it ruins our accountability. The only role on there, that is on there for the sake of the town, is the inventor. The others are on there for the sake of the Plan. If nobody is assigned roles, assassin is really hard to use. If nobody is assigned roles, Thief will only be useful once someone claims. Swapper is only useful once they figure out who's who. The roles that we are trying to keep accountable are not that powerful if there is no role assigning. Not the way I see it anyways. In other words, I don't think that reserving the top spots is worth it. The advantage of not assigning is that the top picks are free to pick self-prot roles, OR op town roles. Mafia won't know where they are, and will have to risk running into a Vet or maybe even a Methman or PGO type role. behind this shield of doubt/mystery, op town roles will be safer. (Not safe, Safer.) Make sense? | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
[8][8] | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
On October 13 2011 14:00 GreYMisT wrote: After we all recieve our roles, should those who became vanilla townies reveal themselves and their picks? we would know for sure some roles would be in the game, but we once again would get the problem that everyone would know the general area that that role exists. I personally feel that it is worth the risk. We get to know for certain what roles are in the game, and can plan accordingly. As a general rule, don't reveal information unless it can benefit the town. If you are pick 3, and you don't get inventor, don't go telling everyone that you didn't get inventor. If you are pick 3, and you don't get CPR doctor, tell us. The main problem (obivously) is that if you reveal that you didn't get a town role, you are just helping the mafia by telling them that (special cases pending), and if you reveal that you didn't get a mafia role, you help the town, but what the crap where you doing trying to get a mafia role? Because of this the only role that i can think of that would be an obviously good idea to tell us you didn't get is Traitor, but that role has been taken from the game. Everything else is either going to help the mafia, or get yourself lynched. (Again, there are probably specific circumstances that you could cook up in which it would be a good idea to claim a town role fail, but other wise, I don't think it should be public knowledge) | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
Elections: Elections should be based on analysis. Period. We look at who is the most town-helping, active, leading person. We don't elect someone because they got Inventor. We don't base the mayoral pick off of role. Not off of draft pick. Analysis. The (somewhat) obvious reason being, role != alignment. Electing someone claiming inventor would bad, because if they are mafia, we have more likely elected a hero, and his team also has the inventor. For that reason, I say that we ignore roles when deciding who to elect. (Yes, that means NO pulling the "I'm a DT, now elect me so I don't get killed" stunt.) Also, I'll be running for Mayor. | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
DT roles are not that useful to mafia (except in special cases like wbg pointed out) This means that they will be relatively easy to get. DT roles should NOT be prioritized in the top. I'd say maybe the low mid should grab these roles. Top picks should be uber town roles and self defense (so that it's dangerous to shoot in there) Mid-high picks should be KP, IF we want it. I'll be back about an hour before the deadline to read more. | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
On October 14 2011 08:30 Jackal58 wrote: How do you figure? There are 3 different scum teams all trying to identify their competition. Each one of those teams will be trying to pick a DT role. Let's say you are mafia, and you pick a DT. Night one, you check someone, and they flip X. Can you give me an example where a bullet to the head would not give you the same info, or where any extra information would be useful? (There are like, two, and that is not enough to justify the role) You could find the inventor, or you could kill the inventor, and find out that he is inventor on death. A KP role IS a info role for mafia, because they want everyone else dead in the end, so they don't care about finding out post-mortem. | ||
|
JimboSilvers
United Kingdom167 Posts
You might be able to use it for some blackmainling stuff, but again, KP will always be the better solution to a info role for mafia. (And prot is better for mafia then just getting half info, if they think that they can't get another KP role) | ||
| ||
![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XDmiW2bMOZ8/Tf5lYPbuNEI/AAAAAAAALxw/6ftiVeg8bpk/s1600/hydra%252C+totus.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/004/457/challenge.jpg?1291495361){kind=icon}
