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On September 19 2011 05:29 smallerk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 05:23 Percutio wrote: Pentium D? Holy shit haha
Those are so old, kind of ridiculous what minimum is. I'll bet you atleast 40% of the system specifications in the whole world are way under that
And how many of those are potential customers? Anyone that is remotelly interested in PC gaming probally has a PC good enough to play it. At most, It may affect a small amount of people in countries where the biggest portion of gamers just pirate stuff anyway.
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The only people who like PKing in a game like Diablo are predatory assholes who have never had it happen to their character. The only way you could get PK'd in Diablo II is by confidence tricks, being AFK, or by bots/tele-PK from characters much higher-levelled than you, since you can always esc+up+enter. Since offense was so much more powerful than defense in D2, this basically just meant whoever got the first look/shot won. Once you die that's hours of your work wasted. In other games like Ultima Online, it was just annoying. Having it happen enough to me when I was lower-levelled just meant I never enjoyed it once I'd achieved higher levels.
It's like training in martial arts in real life to bully regular people, but if you ever meet another martial artist on your level or better than you, you won't want to fight them anymore. If you are offered a chance to fight in an arena against another expert fighter (PvP in games) you decline, because you are a coward who just wants to pick on people weaker than you. So grow up. PKing is childish and if you like it, you only like it because you are not on the receiving end. If you actually want to 'fight' other people in a reasonably fair setting, try PvP in these games.
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On September 19 2011 06:57 SirKibbleX wrote: The only people who like PKing in a game like Diablo are predatory assholes who have never had it happen to their character. The only way you could get PK'd in Diablo II is by confidence tricks, being AFK, or by bots/tele-PK from characters much higher-levelled than you, since you can always esc+up+enter. Since offense was so much more powerful than defense in D2, this basically just meant whoever got the first look/shot won. Once you die that's hours of your work wasted. In other games like Ultima Online, it was just annoying. Having it happen enough to me when I was lower-levelled just meant I never enjoyed it once I'd achieved higher levels.
You understand nothing about hc pvp. ;-) The actual point of real pks (and not the stupid kids with high lvl sorces joining lowie games) was to trick the other into underestimating you with a planned out overpowered build and kill lvl 90 characters with lvl 40-50 chars (37 barb, 39 barb, 45 barb, 50 barb, 58 barb, 42 ama, 42 druid etc.etc. <- talking 1.09d lod), which actually required a lot of skill and precise timing (amp, teleport charges, weapon switches etc.) since you had to kill them before they could use a pot or quit the game. It was also about abusing deeper knowledge of game mechanics e.g. that amplified damage also pierced physical immunties and that decrepify removed those as well. Most people just did not know. And depending on the opponent you could die just as well if you were the PK and made a mistake. It was a HELL load of fun. And if you think you "waste hours of work", you absolutely did not understand the point of playing hardcore... The journey is the destination.
And there were times when not everybody was using stupid chicken modules and you would actually FIGHT another barb to see who gets the Urdar-populated river of flame in a full game.
@topic: I am sure it has been asked, but I couldnt find it - How exactly does 2h dps compare to 1h dps? Can I just multiply 1h dps by two for dual wielding or is there some factor applied? I suppose as soon as skill resources are no issue anymore and stabilze with filler skills, the dps is the only thing that counts and slow weapons are not superior to fast weapons anymore or how is the weapon dmg normalization done on skills that depend on weapon damage?
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Will the beta be released tuesday?! T__T
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On September 19 2011 16:06 Artrey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 06:57 SirKibbleX wrote: The only people who like PKing in a game like Diablo are predatory assholes who have never had it happen to their character. The only way you could get PK'd in Diablo II is by confidence tricks, being AFK, or by bots/tele-PK from characters much higher-levelled than you, since you can always esc+up+enter. Since offense was so much more powerful than defense in D2, this basically just meant whoever got the first look/shot won. Once you die that's hours of your work wasted. In other games like Ultima Online, it was just annoying. Having it happen enough to me when I was lower-levelled just meant I never enjoyed it once I'd achieved higher levels.
You understand nothing about hc pvp. ;-) The actual point of real pks (and not the stupid kids with high lvl sorces joining lowie games) was to trick the other into underestimating you with a planned out overpowered build and kill lvl 90 characters with lvl 40-50 chars (37 barb, 39 barb, 45 barb, 50 barb, 58 barb, 42 ama, 42 druid etc.etc. <- talking 1.09d lod), which actually required a lot of skill and precise timing (amp, teleport charges, weapon switches etc.) since you had to kill them before they could use a pot or quit the game. It was also about abusing deeper knowledge of game mechanics e.g. that amplified damage also pierced physical immunties and that decrepify removed those as well. Most people just did not know. And depending on the opponent you could die just as well if you were the PK and made a mistake. It was a HELL load of fun. And if you think you "waste hours of work", you absolutely did not understand the point of playing hardcore... The journey is the destination. And there were times when not everybody was using stupid chicken modules and you would actually FIGHT another barb to see who gets the Urdar-populated river of flame in a full game. Agreed, i can't count the amount of overconfident tal rasha sorcs i killed with my level 39 charge pala :D.
But also legit pvp in hc was awesome... especially low lvl duelz games.
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On September 19 2011 16:06 Artrey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 06:57 SirKibbleX wrote: The only people who like PKing in a game like Diablo are predatory assholes who have never had it happen to their character. The only way you could get PK'd in Diablo II is by confidence tricks, being AFK, or by bots/tele-PK from characters much higher-levelled than you, since you can always esc+up+enter. Since offense was so much more powerful than defense in D2, this basically just meant whoever got the first look/shot won. Once you die that's hours of your work wasted. In other games like Ultima Online, it was just annoying. Having it happen enough to me when I was lower-levelled just meant I never enjoyed it once I'd achieved higher levels.
You understand nothing about hc pvp. ;-) The actual point of real pks (and not the stupid kids with high lvl sorces joining lowie games) was to trick the other into underestimating you with a planned out overpowered build and kill lvl 90 characters with lvl 40-50 chars (37 barb, 39 barb, 45 barb, 50 barb, 58 barb, 42 ama, 42 druid etc.etc. <- talking 1.09d lod), which actually required a lot of skill and precise timing (amp, teleport charges, weapon switches etc.) since you had to kill them before they could use a pot or quit the game. It was also about abusing deeper knowledge of game mechanics e.g. that amplified damage also pierced physical immunties and that decrepify removed those as well. Most people just did not know. And depending on the opponent you could die just as well if you were the PK and made a mistake. It was a HELL load of fun. And if you think you "waste hours of work", you absolutely did not understand the point of playing hardcore... The journey is the destination.
Are you seriously trying to justify getting a kick out of assassinating other people's characters, destroying them permanently, with a statement like "The journey is the destination"?
The truth is you cannot know what another person considers to be the fundamental hardcore experience unless they tell you. For all you know you and your PKing peers could have been the few deluded players who thought that being willing to die in the attempt was alright even if the victims were not.
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That argument can never be solved. ;-) I think it enriched the game when there was a risk to be killed by players and when you had to be on your feet about the current state of players in your game and their position. Hacks made it worse in both directions (auto tp/hostile vs. auto pot/quit game). Imho legit pks were always a huge part of the hc experience and definitely part of the thrill it gave me. Even when I was the one being pked. ;-) Especially since killing a PK with a char that was still leveling up was like the biggest achievement and most satisfying thing ever in D2. It was part of the game and therefor justified, if the others liked it or not.
However they decided to go more casual and leave that part out which is imho sad, but a matter of fact, so I do not really understand why we are still discussing it? I was just putting some facts right because they came from someone who clearly had a wrong picture what real pk/pvp was about.
Rather answer my real questions please!
On September 19 2011 16:06 Artrey wrote: @topic: I am sure it has been asked, but I couldnt find it - How exactly does 2h dps compare to 1h dps? Can I just multiply 1h dps by two for dual wielding or is there some factor applied? I suppose as soon as skill resources are no issue anymore and stabilze with filler skills, the dps is the only thing that counts and slow weapons are not superior to fast weapons anymore or how is the weapon dmg normalization done on skills that depend on weapon damage?
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On September 19 2011 18:45 procyonlotor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 16:06 Artrey wrote:On September 19 2011 06:57 SirKibbleX wrote: The only people who like PKing in a game like Diablo are predatory assholes who have never had it happen to their character. The only way you could get PK'd in Diablo II is by confidence tricks, being AFK, or by bots/tele-PK from characters much higher-levelled than you, since you can always esc+up+enter. Since offense was so much more powerful than defense in D2, this basically just meant whoever got the first look/shot won. Once you die that's hours of your work wasted. In other games like Ultima Online, it was just annoying. Having it happen enough to me when I was lower-levelled just meant I never enjoyed it once I'd achieved higher levels.
You understand nothing about hc pvp. ;-) The actual point of real pks (and not the stupid kids with high lvl sorces joining lowie games) was to trick the other into underestimating you with a planned out overpowered build and kill lvl 90 characters with lvl 40-50 chars (37 barb, 39 barb, 45 barb, 50 barb, 58 barb, 42 ama, 42 druid etc.etc. <- talking 1.09d lod), which actually required a lot of skill and precise timing (amp, teleport charges, weapon switches etc.) since you had to kill them before they could use a pot or quit the game. It was also about abusing deeper knowledge of game mechanics e.g. that amplified damage also pierced physical immunties and that decrepify removed those as well. Most people just did not know. And depending on the opponent you could die just as well if you were the PK and made a mistake. It was a HELL load of fun. And if you think you "waste hours of work", you absolutely did not understand the point of playing hardcore... The journey is the destination. Are you seriously trying to justify getting a kick out of assassinating other people's characters, destroying them permanently, with a statement like "The journey is the destination"? The truth is you cannot know what another person considers to be the fundamental hardcore experience unless they tell you. For all you know you and your PKing peers could have been the few deluded players who thought that being willing to die in the attempt was alright even if the victims were not. I think if all the lame hacks like tppk never existed you would have a different opinion tbh... since you can always simply tp to town or leave the game vs a legit pk.
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United States7166 Posts
Keep off-topic discussion out of this thread.
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how does blizz plan to balance the pvp out when its not in the beta?
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On September 20 2011 01:29 CROrens wrote: how does blizz plan to balance the pvp out when its not in the beta?
They don't. PvP is suposed to be something fun to do if you feel like it, but it is not suported as something competitive. There will be no ladders or anything that gives that impression. They probally just don't want PvP balancing to affect the whole game, like it does in WoW.
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On September 20 2011 01:29 CROrens wrote: how does blizz plan to balance the pvp out when its not in the beta?
there is very good/funny quote: Whenever we run into a case that "this would be really awesome for PvE," then the PvP guy goes like "Hey this kind of screws PvP," we're like "shut up, PvP guy!" more information + video: http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/207561-diablo-iii-blizzards-mentality-on-pvp/
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"Diablo III's arenas are designed [...] with matchmaking to ensure more evenly balanced battles." (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/whats-new)
I think that's enough for "balance". With so many variables (items etc.) i don't think there's much to balance anyways. This is not starcraft ^^
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has anyone noticed any changes from F/F beta to opt-in beta? any more content or patches?
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With monk and the barbarian, there's a balance between fast and slow weapons of equal dps: where fast weapons generate resources (rage/spirit) faster due to more skills being used per time, slow weapons do more damage per spent resource.
Demon hunter on the other hand, has no resource generating skill as far as I can see. Instead their resource (hatred) regenerate over time. Wouldn't it be pointless with a fast shooting weapon for a demon hunter as that would only drain their resource faster without increasing the damage output? Am I missing something?
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On September 21 2011 19:31 VoirDire wrote: With monk and the barbarian, there's a balance between fast and slow weapons of equal dps: where fast weapons generate resources (rage/spirit) faster due to more skills being used per time, slow weapons do more damage per spent resource.
Demon hunter on the other hand, has no resource generating skill as far as I can see. Instead their resource (hatred) regenerate over time. Wouldn't it be pointless with a fast shooting weapon for a demon hunter as that would only drain their resource faster without increasing the damage output? Am I missing something? It's the same trade off in D2.
If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies.
If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it.
In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies.
Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage.
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On September 21 2011 10:54 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: has anyone noticed any changes from F/F beta to opt-in beta? any more content or patches? nope, its exactly the same
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On September 21 2011 19:48 NeoLearner wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 19:31 VoirDire wrote: With monk and the barbarian, there's a balance between fast and slow weapons of equal dps: where fast weapons generate resources (rage/spirit) faster due to more skills being used per time, slow weapons do more damage per spent resource.
Demon hunter on the other hand, has no resource generating skill as far as I can see. Instead their resource (hatred) regenerate over time. Wouldn't it be pointless with a fast shooting weapon for a demon hunter as that would only drain their resource faster without increasing the damage output? Am I missing something? It's the same trade off in D2. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies. If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage. It's the same trade off in D2. In d2, basically everyone had mana steal on their weapons so the regen vs spending wasn't an issue. You could basically spam the skill of your choice as much as you wanted with enough mana steal.
If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies. True, but that would make the demon hunter very weapon dependent
If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it. Doesn't apply. The DH has no skills which add flat weapon damage.
In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies.
True. But on the other hand since heavier hitting weapons do more damage on the initial hit, they will be ahead in the damage curve. DPS doesn't factor in that the initial hit has no delay.
Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage. This is true, but blizzard usually try to balance that by making the modifiers of 2h weapons more potent.
My point still remains. If the DH regens 10 per second and wishes to use multi shot (30 hatred) as their main skill. They will only be able to sustain 3.33 shots per second, regardless of weapon speed.
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Barbarian passive skill Inspiring Presence
The duration of your shouts is doubled. While benefiting from War Cry or Battle Rage you regenerate 60% of your total Life per minute. So War Cry can already heal you with a rune so will that make double regeneration activated from one skill? Doesnt make sense to me.
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On September 21 2011 20:26 VoirDire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 19:48 NeoLearner wrote:On September 21 2011 19:31 VoirDire wrote: With monk and the barbarian, there's a balance between fast and slow weapons of equal dps: where fast weapons generate resources (rage/spirit) faster due to more skills being used per time, slow weapons do more damage per spent resource.
Demon hunter on the other hand, has no resource generating skill as far as I can see. Instead their resource (hatred) regenerate over time. Wouldn't it be pointless with a fast shooting weapon for a demon hunter as that would only drain their resource faster without increasing the damage output? Am I missing something? It's the same trade off in D2. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies. If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage. It's the same trade off in D2.In d2, basically everyone had mana steal on their weapons so the regen vs spending wasn't an issue. You could basically spam the skill of your choice as much as you wanted with enough mana steal. If the weapon used has a useful "on hit" modifier or the skill has a debuff effect, fast hitting weapons will cause it to trigger faster and on more enemies.True, but that would make the demon hunter very weapon dependent If the skill has a flat damage increase, faster hitting weapons will cause more DPS because of it.Doesn't apply. The DH has no skills which add flat weapon damage. In case of low hit point enemies, the "overkill" from high damage (2 handed) weapons is useless. Thus, fast hitting weapons would make more sense for smaller enemies.
True. But on the other hand since heavier hitting weapons do more damage on the initial hit, they will be ahead in the damage curve. DPS doesn't factor in that the initial hit has no delay. Dual wielding weapons can have twice the amount of modifiers, for example Increased total damage.This is true, but blizzard usually try to balance that by making the modifiers of 2h weapons more potent. My point still remains. If the DH regens 10 per second and wishes to use multi shot (30 hatred) as their main skill. They will only be able to sustain 3.33 shots per second, regardless of weapon speed. Sorry, I thought we were brainstorming on whether you might have missed something. I wasn't making a point at all.
The overkilling still stands, DPS is just the damage you will do per second when hitting a wall of infinite health points. Example: Your big 2 handed weapon does 30 damage in 1.5 seconds (DPS = 20). Your 1 handed 1 does 10 damage in 1 second (DPS = 10). There are 10 enemies with 10 health each. Both weapons need 10 hits, but the one handed weapon will do it in 10 seconds while the 2 handed needs 15. If you check the DPS over the complete group, DPS of the one handed weapon is higher.
You are completely right about the hatred cost though, a faster hitting weapon will deplete it's hatred faster. I presume that's one of the points they will be changing when they talked about reordening the Demon Hunter's skills a bit?
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