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Disclaimer and Overview
Hi! I'm a Diamond Terran on NA and this is a very simple TvT build I have been having an a lot of success with and wanted to share. I'm not good, I get it, if you're not interested in reading further I more than understand. Hopefully someone enjoys the same success I have.
So what's the build? What I wanted for my TvT was a safe build that allowed me to get my tech and expansion up relatively quickly and accomplish some sort of pressure. What I came up with is a fast factory 3 tank with siege timing. While you're getting the tanks you float enough minerals to get the expansion up relatively quickly and you never have to cut scvs.
The Build *note I will not include depot timings, you shouldn't get supply blocked and you never cut scvs. I also will not include scout timings, its up to you
- 12 Rax anywhere but at your wall
- 13 Refinery (I think its 13, the earliest without cutting scvs), constant production
- Orbital when rax finishes
@ 100 Gas build a factory then your second refinary
- after three marines add a tech lab to your barracks
- Factory and tech lab will complete at the same time, swap them
- Build your first tank then a reactor on the barracks (constant production from the barracks)
In game check. You should be ~27 food and floating ~400 minerals, put down your second command center in base. When it finishes make it into an orbital, you'll have the money.
- Make sure your tank production is constant, while the second tank is building research seige @100 gas. It will finish right as your third tank pops.
You should have 3 tanks and ~10 marines, move out and attack your opponent while floating your second orbital to your nat
From here its really up to you, I like to get a starport and another barracks but you can play however you like. With your push if you can kill him that's great. What you want to do is delay his natural a bit and get an economic lead. I wouldn't recommend containing too long as he'll probably have spots out long before you do. I do not rally my fourth tank but instead siege in my base to counter drops and whatnot. Be sure to save a scan for when you move out
General note: I like to build my first two depots at my ramp so I can block hellions with my tank
Replays
http://www.mediafire.com/?migckdy5hsyq592 TvT on Shit Pits
http://www.mediafire.com/?l73minyyaow2a95 TvT on Shattered Temple
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Okay, hope this helps somebody. If a higher level player wants to tell me what they think I'm all ears for improvements and suggestions. Hf on ladder~
TLDROn July 02 2011 05:01 lorkac wrote:
open standard with a factory after barracks
techlab after 3 marines and then swap.
Reactor on barracks and then constant marines.
Push at 3 tanks (with siege), expand as you push.
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I like these kinds of pushes too, although I generally push at 1-2 tanks, usually because the banshee timing for 1-1-1 comes out by the 2nd to 3rd tank I believe.
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TLDR
open standard with a factory after barracks
techlab after 3 marines and then swap.
Reactor on barracks and then constant marines.
Push at 3 tanks, expand as you push.
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On July 02 2011 05:01 lorkac wrote:
TLDR
open standard with a factory after barracks
techlab after 3 marines and then swap.
Reactor on barracks and then constant marines.
Push at 3 tanks, expand as you push.
Word yo
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I'm just wondering, by putting a reactor on that fast you might be a bit dodgy against some early all in play. Since there's a small period where you have only 3 marines and no production. Do you throw down any scans to make sure no all in is coming or do you have a scv around the map?
Otherwise sounds nice. It's a decent opening for closer positions but I think it might be slightly behind a 18CC in a bigger map. I have to check the replay to see the timings of that tank push vs 18CC into siege with 2 rax pumping.
Also how do you determine to go this build?
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On July 02 2011 05:20 Numy wrote:
I'm just wondering, by putting a reactor on that fast you might be a bit dodgy against some early all in play. Since there's a small period where you have only 3 marines and no production. Do you throw down any scans to make sure no all in is coming or do you have a scv around the map?
Otherwise sounds nice. It's a decent opening for closer positions but I think it might be slightly behind a 18CC in a bigger map. I have to check the replay to see the timings of that tank push vs 18CC into siege with 2 rax pumping.
Also how do you determine to go this build?
I scout around with my scv so I could bunker accordingly but thats a weakness in my play I've yet to have exploited. It might be better to build another marine or two before the reactor, I'm not sure  .
I do this build on every map mostly because I like the safety and I have a lot of confidence in my mechanics at this level but yeah, smaller and two player maps is where my push does maximum damage
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It seems nice, at what time do you move out your base ? It seems banshee timings will hit you just as you leave your base, or not very long after, can you usually deal with them ?
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susceptible to cloaked banshee?
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On July 02 2011 05:01 lorkac wrote:
TLDR
open standard with a factory after barracks
techlab after 3 marines and then swap.
Reactor on barracks and then constant marines.
Push at 3 tanks, expand as you push.
if you wall swaping rax with tech lab with factory reveals youre build, this will negate the effect of youre push
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yeah, ive now blindly done this build 3 times and won all three without any issue, though i made a bunker in close positions when i scouted a fast 2nd rax. the minerals that go into the cc can be used instead to defend against banshees or lots of marines and you can stay on 1 base since your opponent will be behind anyway if you successfully defend these things
please take this thread down so that no one does it back to me!
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On July 02 2011 09:50 lcl wrote:
yeah, ive now blindly done this build 3 times and won all three without any issue, though i made a bunker in close positions when i scouted a fast 2nd rax. the minerals that go into the cc can be used instead to defend against banshees or lots of marines and you can stay on 1 base since your opponent will be behind anyway if you successfully defend these things
please take this thread down so that no one does it back to me!
I'm glad. Banshees aren't that big a problem, in my experience I can just go kill them plus I reactor the barrack so I'll have enough rines to defend and I have two orbitals worth of scan to help me. If he had a great micro it'd probably be an issue but at diamond I haven't had any problems
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not meaning to be rud eor bm in any way but isnt this sort of play standard i.e. going one fact expand while placing pressure. As i have been doing this basic sort of build for the last few months as my default standard opening.
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How does this fare with a common 1rax expand into marine sheild timing~16marines.
I have not seen this before but It sounds really easy to defend as you should have ~1tank out to defend.
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This is a super standard push Oo
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On July 02 2011 10:58 Blackk wrote:
This is a super standard push Oo
It is but their are alot of nooblets who need this written down. Sometimes its hard to keep up with the metagame when you don't watch replays and streams.
@OP you should consider adding this to Liquidpedia.
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I like it, another build I will add to my arsenal of 3
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On July 02 2011 10:30 cristo1122 wrote:
not meaning to be rud eor bm in any way but isnt this sort of play standard i.e. going one fact expand while placing pressure. As i have been doing this basic sort of build for the last few months as my default standard opening.
Maybe, I don't know. I couldn't find a standard build TvT in the 3hat muta ZvT (bw) sort of sense.
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Could this be used as a broodwar-esque siege expand in TvP?
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Wouldn't it be better to just throw down a 2nd rax instead of a reactor? I thought that was generally accepted thing to do for first few rax because it doesn't stop marine production and saves gas, since you should be using all your gas on the tanks and seige, and any extra should be going towards stim and shields.
However, I guess the mineral savings from not making a rax and just a reactor and pausing marines would influence your timing on the 2nd cc.
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EPT
