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Disclaimer and Overview
Hi! I'm a Diamond Terran on NA and this is a very simple TvT build I have been having an a lot of success with and wanted to share. I'm not good, I get it, if you're not interested in reading further I more than understand. Hopefully someone enjoys the same success I have.
So what's the build? What I wanted for my TvT was a safe build that allowed me to get my tech and expansion up relatively quickly and accomplish some sort of pressure. What I came up with is a fast factory 3 tank with siege timing. While you're getting the tanks you float enough minerals to get the expansion up relatively quickly and you never have to cut scvs.
The Build *note I will not include depot timings, you shouldn't get supply blocked and you never cut scvs. I also will not include scout timings, its up to you
- 12 Rax anywhere but at your wall
- 13 Refinery (I think its 13, the earliest without cutting scvs), constant production
- Orbital when rax finishes
@ 100 Gas build a factory then your second refinary
- after three marines add a tech lab to your barracks
- Factory and tech lab will complete at the same time, swap them
- Build your first tank then a reactor on the barracks (constant production from the barracks)
In game check. You should be ~27 food and floating ~400 minerals, put down your second command center in base. When it finishes make it into an orbital, you'll have the money.
- Make sure your tank production is constant, while the second tank is building research seige @100 gas. It will finish right as your third tank pops.
You should have 3 tanks and ~10 marines, move out and attack your opponent while floating your second orbital to your nat
From here its really up to you, I like to get a starport and another barracks but you can play however you like. With your push if you can kill him that's great. What you want to do is delay his natural a bit and get an economic lead. I wouldn't recommend containing too long as he'll probably have spots out long before you do. I do not rally my fourth tank but instead siege in my base to counter drops and whatnot. Be sure to save a scan for when you move out
General note: I like to build my first two depots at my ramp so I can block hellions with my tank
Replays
http://www.mediafire.com/?migckdy5hsyq592 TvT on Shit Pits
http://www.mediafire.com/?l73minyyaow2a95 TvT on Shattered Temple
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Okay, hope this helps somebody. If a higher level player wants to tell me what they think I'm all ears for improvements and suggestions. Hf on ladder~
TLDROn July 02 2011 05:01 lorkac wrote:
open standard with a factory after barracks
techlab after 3 marines and then swap.
Reactor on barracks and then constant marines.
Push at 3 tanks (with siege), expand as you push.
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I like these kinds of pushes too, although I generally push at 1-2 tanks, usually because the banshee timing for 1-1-1 comes out by the 2nd to 3rd tank I believe.
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TLDR
open standard with a factory after barracks
techlab after 3 marines and then swap.
Reactor on barracks and then constant marines.
Push at 3 tanks, expand as you push.
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On July 02 2011 05:01 lorkac wrote:
TLDR
open standard with a factory after barracks
techlab after 3 marines and then swap.
Reactor on barracks and then constant marines.
Push at 3 tanks, expand as you push.
Word yo
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I'm just wondering, by putting a reactor on that fast you might be a bit dodgy against some early all in play. Since there's a small period where you have only 3 marines and no production. Do you throw down any scans to make sure no all in is coming or do you have a scv around the map?
Otherwise sounds nice. It's a decent opening for closer positions but I think it might be slightly behind a 18CC in a bigger map. I have to check the replay to see the timings of that tank push vs 18CC into siege with 2 rax pumping.
Also how do you determine to go this build?
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On July 02 2011 05:20 Numy wrote:
I'm just wondering, by putting a reactor on that fast you might be a bit dodgy against some early all in play. Since there's a small period where you have only 3 marines and no production. Do you throw down any scans to make sure no all in is coming or do you have a scv around the map?
Otherwise sounds nice. It's a decent opening for closer positions but I think it might be slightly behind a 18CC in a bigger map. I have to check the replay to see the timings of that tank push vs 18CC into siege with 2 rax pumping.
Also how do you determine to go this build?
I scout around with my scv so I could bunker accordingly but thats a weakness in my play I've yet to have exploited. It might be better to build another marine or two before the reactor, I'm not sure  .
I do this build on every map mostly because I like the safety and I have a lot of confidence in my mechanics at this level but yeah, smaller and two player maps is where my push does maximum damage
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It seems nice, at what time do you move out your base ? It seems banshee timings will hit you just as you leave your base, or not very long after, can you usually deal with them ?
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susceptible to cloaked banshee?
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On July 02 2011 05:01 lorkac wrote:
TLDR
open standard with a factory after barracks
techlab after 3 marines and then swap.
Reactor on barracks and then constant marines.
Push at 3 tanks, expand as you push.
if you wall swaping rax with tech lab with factory reveals youre build, this will negate the effect of youre push
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yeah, ive now blindly done this build 3 times and won all three without any issue, though i made a bunker in close positions when i scouted a fast 2nd rax. the minerals that go into the cc can be used instead to defend against banshees or lots of marines and you can stay on 1 base since your opponent will be behind anyway if you successfully defend these things
please take this thread down so that no one does it back to me!
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On July 02 2011 09:50 lcl wrote:
yeah, ive now blindly done this build 3 times and won all three without any issue, though i made a bunker in close positions when i scouted a fast 2nd rax. the minerals that go into the cc can be used instead to defend against banshees or lots of marines and you can stay on 1 base since your opponent will be behind anyway if you successfully defend these things
please take this thread down so that no one does it back to me!
I'm glad. Banshees aren't that big a problem, in my experience I can just go kill them plus I reactor the barrack so I'll have enough rines to defend and I have two orbitals worth of scan to help me. If he had a great micro it'd probably be an issue but at diamond I haven't had any problems
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not meaning to be rud eor bm in any way but isnt this sort of play standard i.e. going one fact expand while placing pressure. As i have been doing this basic sort of build for the last few months as my default standard opening.
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How does this fare with a common 1rax expand into marine sheild timing~16marines.
I have not seen this before but It sounds really easy to defend as you should have ~1tank out to defend.
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This is a super standard push Oo
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On July 02 2011 10:58 Blackk wrote:
This is a super standard push Oo
It is but their are alot of nooblets who need this written down. Sometimes its hard to keep up with the metagame when you don't watch replays and streams.
@OP you should consider adding this to Liquidpedia.
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I like it, another build I will add to my arsenal of 3
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On July 02 2011 10:30 cristo1122 wrote:
not meaning to be rud eor bm in any way but isnt this sort of play standard i.e. going one fact expand while placing pressure. As i have been doing this basic sort of build for the last few months as my default standard opening.
Maybe, I don't know. I couldn't find a standard build TvT in the 3hat muta ZvT (bw) sort of sense.
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Could this be used as a broodwar-esque siege expand in TvP?
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Wouldn't it be better to just throw down a 2nd rax instead of a reactor? I thought that was generally accepted thing to do for first few rax because it doesn't stop marine production and saves gas, since you should be using all your gas on the tanks and seige, and any extra should be going towards stim and shields.
However, I guess the mineral savings from not making a rax and just a reactor and pausing marines would influence your timing on the 2nd cc.
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I tried this today...just as I thought, it was basically an automatic loss to the banshee flying across the map to my base.
Like most builds without a starport, you're too vulnerable to 1 banshee, and god forbid it has cloak too.
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On July 02 2011 13:55 avilo wrote:
I tried this today...just as I thought, it was basically an automatic loss to the banshee flying across the map to my base.
Like most builds without a starport, you're too vulnerable to 1 banshee, and god forbid it has cloak too.
you'll have enough money to get a e-bay up, with some turrets not to mention that you can also throw down a quick barracks
On a side note
Looking at the replays i noticed that you move out around 7:30 in your replays.
But I made a variation where you skip the reactor, make and make 2 tanks
the conclusion is that I left my base at a much quicker time, with 7 marines and 2 tanks, with a third on the way (you can rally to the base)
This is probably my new staple TvT build, thank you for showing it to me!!!
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On July 02 2011 13:43 Penatronic wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to just throw down a 2nd rax instead of a reactor? I thought that was generally accepted thing to do for first few rax because it doesn't stop marine production and saves gas, since you should be using all your gas on the tanks and seige, and any extra should be going towards stim and shields.
However, I guess the mineral savings from not making a rax and just a reactor and pausing marines would influence your timing on the 2nd cc.
I tested the same thing, at it I left generally around the same time
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Personally have a lot more success with a refinery first then barracks with 1 tank and go attack. Siege tanks outrange bunkers (unless it has a marauder in it) and usually a guarantee that the opponent has cut marine production a few times so normally have more marines.
This is just in short rush distance in TvT though, usually able to end the game cause the opponent when for Hellion/Banshee and has no army of which to speak of.
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On July 02 2011 13:55 avilo wrote:
I tried this today...just as I thought, it was basically an automatic loss to the banshee flying across the map to my base.
Like most builds without a starport, you're too vulnerable to 1 banshee, and god forbid it has cloak too.
Hmm thats interesting, I haven't had any trouble. In fact I think the strength of the build is against any sort of starport opening. Could you link the replays? I'd appreciate it~
As for reactor over second rax, the gas works out so that you have enough I don't want to delay my second cc that long.
On July 02 2011 15:29 Tsuycc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 13:55 avilo wrote:
I tried this today...just as I thought, it was basically an automatic loss to the banshee flying across the map to my base.
Like most builds without a starport, you're too vulnerable to 1 banshee, and god forbid it has cloak too. Looking at the replays i noticed that you move out around 7:30 in your replays. But I made a variation where you skip the reactor, make and make 2 tanks the conclusion is that I left my base at a much quicker time, with 7 marines and 2 tanks, with a third on the way (you can rally to the base) This is probably my new staple TvT build, thank you for showing it to me!!!
I was thinking about this on the train, can you link the replay? Many thanks
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On July 02 2011 08:34 random322 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 05:01 lorkac wrote:
TLDR
open standard with a factory after barracks
techlab after 3 marines and then swap.
Reactor on barracks and then constant marines.
Push at 3 tanks, expand as you push. if you wall swaping rax with tech lab with factory reveals youre build, this will negate the effect of youre push
Do you place buildings to wall off in a TvT? I don't personally do it, but if I scout Fact+reactor or a hellion of any sort I use 3 supply depots.
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Three quick thoughts.
1) I've had similar bo's done to me several times in TvT (high plat, low diamond) and against the right opener it can be absolutely devastating.
2) This is especially annoying on Shakuras. I've opened starport tech or some other bo and just had the other guy camp my nat around the gasses and if they do it right It either takes a huge investment to break out or massively delays your expand.
3) I do think this is somewhat weak to that 3-reaper play thats been going around, I can certainly see just not having enough stuff to prevent the reapers from doing massive damage.
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On July 02 2011 23:42 FaiL_SaFe wrote:
2) This is especially annoying on Shakuras. I've opened starport tech or some other bo and just had the other guy camp my nat around the gasses and if they do it right It either takes a huge investment to break out or massively delays your expand.
On Shakuras a gasless expand(2 Rax afterwards) will have more marines and have a least a tank out when the push comes. This means you can attack him on the way to your base and be able to stop the push. This is more for close spawns or short rush distances.
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On July 02 2011 19:07 aaycumi wrote:
Personally have a lot more success with a refinery first then barracks with 1 tank and go attack. Siege tanks outrange bunkers (unless it has a marauder in it) and usually a guarantee that the opponent has cut marine production a few times so normally have more marines.
This is just in short rush distance in TvT though, usually able to end the game cause the opponent when for Hellion/Banshee and has no army of which to speak of.
So a bunker w/ rauder has a range of 13? lol, tanks > bunkers period.
On July 02 2011 13:55 avilo wrote:
I tried this today...just as I thought, it was basically an automatic loss to the banshee flying across the map to my base.
Like most builds without a starport, you're too vulnerable to 1 banshee, and god forbid it has cloak too.
If he goes banshees w/ cloak hes going to have no more than 5-6 marines, and 1 banshee, just go fucking kill him..
As for the build, seems pretty cool, but how does it fair against a 1 rax fe straight into tanks with a bunker/repair to hold the nat until siege finishes. Would this leave you at a slight eco disadvantage?
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In EG Master's Cup, Drewbie vs Thorzain + Show Spoiler +game 3Thorzain did this exact build, pushing slowly with the first tank and sealing the deal with the second and third tanks, I think thorzain walled as well. Drewbie did a 1 rax FE into a 4rax build so his FE died and it was a gg since attacking into tanks sucks
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This would probably work best against 1rax fe builds. Bunkers and marines are rarely enough to save the natural without sacrificing a lot of SCV's.
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sounds like this would get owned by any player going cloakshee's. Sure maybe you even have 3 scans ready with the dual CC but you shouldnt play like that as in "needing" the energy for scans.
I also think its better to hit with your 8-10 marines, 1.5-2 seige tanks as they're coming out +1 viking for the vision advantage.
EDIT: yeah I see the Thorzain comment. I think this build is strong if you see them going FE into many racks. Other wise I would be very careful.
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On July 03 2011 03:45 reyk wrote:In EG Master's Cup, Drewbie vs Thorzain + Show Spoiler +game 3Thorzain did this exact build, pushing slowly with the first tank and sealing the deal with the second and third tanks, I think thorzain walled as well. Drewbie did a 1 rax FE into a 4rax build so his FE died and it was a gg since attacking into tanks sucks
+ Show Spoiler +It was poor control from drewbie and awesome control from Thorzain to come out ahead. He could have held with some better control.
On July 03 2011 04:22 Sotamursu wrote:
This would probably work best against 1rax fe builds. Bunkers and marines are rarely enough to save the natural without sacrificing a lot of SCV's.
If they go 1rax fe into hard tech(18CC double REF build) then it's not as clear cut as that. Depends a lot on the map and what tech they choose. Against 1 rax fe into hard bio then it's a lot about control. I don't think there's a clear cut "x wins vs y" a lot depends on factors. Still a nice default build.
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You need to scout very well. This build would get raped by a standard 2 rax. The typical 2 rax initially hits with 3-4 marines + 1 scv, which should kill your marines and then you have no production and he has marines streaming in. The second rax is usually well hidden as well so you wont know until very late. This may be safer on a map with a large rush distance.
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How do you beat a 3 reaper rush with this build? I couldn't get enough marines out in time and I had to stall for the tank to come out, but by then the damage was dealt.
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On July 04 2011 05:02 LordLuo wrote:
How do you beat a 3 reaper rush with this build? I couldn't get enough marines out in time and I had to stall for the tank to come out, but by then the damage was dealt.
Uhh as far as I can tell you can't :/ Its sort of a hard counter, you just have to minimize the damage while you wait for the tank and try a counter.
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On July 04 2011 05:38 n.DieJokes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 05:02 LordLuo wrote:
How do you beat a 3 reaper rush with this build? I couldn't get enough marines out in time and I had to stall for the tank to come out, but by then the damage was dealt. Uhh as far as I can tell you can't :/ Its sort of a hard counter, you just have to minimize the damage while you wait for the tank and try a counter.
Ouch, that hurt  that build has become so popular since it was posted on TL.
If the reactor isn't made and instead you make a few more marines, would you be able to stall for the tank better and take smaller losses?
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ur enemy doesnt even used hotkeys WTF
diamond serious?
User was warned for this post
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On July 04 2011 06:15 LordLuo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 05:38 n.DieJokes wrote:On July 04 2011 05:02 LordLuo wrote:
How do you beat a 3 reaper rush with this build? I couldn't get enough marines out in time and I had to stall for the tank to come out, but by then the damage was dealt. Uhh as far as I can tell you can't :/ Its sort of a hard counter, you just have to minimize the damage while you wait for the tank and try a counter. Ouch, that hurt that build has become so popular since it was posted on TL. If the reactor isn't made and instead you make a few more marines, would you be able to stall for the tank better and take smaller losses?
Haha yea :[ I'm gonna work on the two tank no reactor timing mentioned in the thread and see how that works out
On July 04 2011 07:31 Quadans wrote:
ur enemy doesnt even used hotkeys WTF
diamond serious?
Thank you for your input
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This is the first type of build I ever practiced. Have used a refinery before rax build variation that changes depending on what race I'm playing against.
TvT - I'll either swap rax / fact, research siege, and drop another rax w /tech + shields then time the push when that upgrade is almost done, or just go 2 x fact and port and drop blue flames.
TvZ - I always go with early tank / rine pressure. Sometims 2 x port banshes.
TvP - If they early expand I've found this strat to work for me. Been following this up with ghost + nuke to finish them off.
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I wonder if my go-to TvT build can stop this push and get the advantage.
+ Show Spoiler +1 reaper > stim > cc > 2 more rax > constant marine production > fac > 4th rax > 2x ebay or 5th rax (depends) > starport
Basically the ultra-fast stim will give me the advantage on the field, because any tech-heavy push will sacrifice lots of gas, it ensures the opponent doesn't have stim when I move out midfield to receive the push.
My tanks come up really late, but I'll have the marine advantage and probably the upgrade one too.
I've died to tank pushes before, but its because I engaged at very bad positions.
Wish I could 1v1 you right now to test it out, because I kinda got the stim for that exact purpose of cutting down the first tank push/contain.
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I am platinum on NA server (silver on SEA server), so even worse than OP.
I have been doing this build TvT for the last month or so and had good results. My take is similar, but slightly different. My tweeks are:
1. I dont get a reactor on the rax because it leaves a very long time when you are not producing marines. Once the expo is up I add another rax and starport and then put the reactor/techlab on the barracks. As pointed out by others, this build is most vulnerable in the early stages so I felt too flimsy with the early reactor.
2. If I scout no gas, or 2 rax, I put a bunker at the choke. I was able to hold off a 5 rax pure marine push with this build on Tal'Darim, thanks to the tank.
3. I go for an engineering bay after expansion to get up 1 turret in the mineral line, to defend from banhees.
It is weak against 3+ reaper rushes as you are focusing on defending the front and may lose a number of scv's to the reapers. Once seige is done you'll be OK, but the reapers have hit me before seige is done.
I was thinking of making a post but had a look on TLliquipedia and there is an entry for seige expand, which is pretty much this build (without the rax-factory swap).
P.S. yay - first post
Edit: I dont push most of the time, but use it as an ultra safe FE build. I actually settled upon it when the metagame shifted to FEs. I felt a 1 rax no gas FE was too weak against a terran that pushes with tanks and that this was a good solution.
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Some builds to worry about:
The 5 marine 1 hellion timing. When you have 3 marines out, shouldn't that push beat you? Obviously you'll get a tank fairly soon, but on closer spawns your opponent would be able to get into your base at the very least.
The other thing, which is coincidentally a followup to the push aforementioned, is banshees. Using the rax to make 2 addons so early will cut into marine production time drastically, and this build does not have an ebay in it.
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On July 04 2011 11:56 Cityfern wrote:
I am platinum on NA server, so not as good as OP.
I have been doing this build TvT for the last month or so and had good results. My take is similar, but slightly different. My tweeks are:
1. I dont get a reactor on the rax because it leaves a very long time when you are not producing marines. Once the expo is up I add another rax and starport and then put the reactor/techlab on the barracks. As pointed out by others, this build is most vulnerable in the early stages so I felt too flimsy with the early reactor.
2. If I scout no gas, or 2 rax, I put a bunker at the choke. I was able to hold off a 5 rax pure marine push with this build on Tal'Darim, thanks to the tank.
3. I go for an engineering bay after expansion to get up 1 turret in the mineral line, to defend from banhees.
It is weak against 3+ reaper rushes as you are focusing on defending the front and may lose a number of scv's to the reapers. Once seige is done you'll be OK, but the reapers have hit me before seige is done.
I was thinking of making a post but had a look on TLliquipedia and there is an entry for seige expand, which is pretty much this build (without the rax-factory swap).
P.S. yay - first post
Yay new (registered) member! Welcome! Good first post, with one correction (I don't think Platinum is "bad or worse" by any means (:
1. Reactor takes 50 seconds to produce, a Marine takes 25 seconds to produce (game time). So by the time you get the reactor up, you can have 3 marines instead of 1. However, your first production cycle will bring you up to 3 marines, while a rax without reactor will give you 4 marines.
You'll have evened out the marine count by the second production cycle with the reactor
(1 > 3 > 5 as compared to 1 > 2 (no reactor building) > 3 (no reactor building) > 4 > 5).
2. Keep your scv scout alive, try to scout the command center going down if there is no second rax. A bunker will automatically put you (further) behind if he goes gasless expand against your later expand. Bunker for 2 rax of course (sometimes the second rax is proxied, so its better to keep your scv alive to scout the CC)
3. Pretty good for early upgrades, if you're going bio heavy with tank support.
4. Now, the 3 reaper rush is a touch-and-go thing to defend. I suggest pulling 2-3 scvs and group up with your marines (should have 3-4 marines depending on whether you got the reactor), then chasing them down. Make sure your defensive force walks the shorter path; reapers move faster than marines. If he overextends and goes behind your mineral line, surround him with scvs.
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Thanks Saritenite, i was not seeking to offend the OP (or myself) but provided the regular caveat that my opinion is not that of a super-gosu player.
Thanks for your input re the timings, however, given that the reactor is being made after the first (or second) tank, or seige, the production cycles may not have time to catch up before 3 rax all-in or 3 reaper rush hits. Also, the 50 gas for the reactor may delay the second tank and/or seige, which could compound the weakness.
Is losing 100 minerals temporarily (more like 25 minerals given the salvage) for the bunker putting you that far behind?
I always try and have an scv hidden at the expo to see the expansion timing. This is not entirely effective if they keep it in base for a long time.
Thanks for the tip for dealing with the reapers, they usually get more scv kills than they should.
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The 3 reaper rush, like any other build, has tells. Learn what you're looking for and plan a deviation.
Adjusting is one of the most important things you can do in a strategy. Sure, you might not hit your timing if something weird happens, but you'll be ahead in some other sort of way.
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These pushes are just chance-based, meaning that you die to a counter drop. You simply cannot do these kind of pushes if you want to be a solid player. I see a lot of terran in tvt doing risky stuff, not realizing that they are in fact "chance" players, as they typically expand as well and hence feel like they play a macro-oriented style.
IMO work on a long-term solid style (aka always have a plan to deal with everything the opponent can throw at you), instead of this "chance-play".
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Just wondering: how does the push work considering he walled up with bunker and has 2 siege tanks near ramp? I saw something similar with this build, but the player built a proxy rax near the opponent's base to give view...
Cheers.
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On July 04 2011 19:34 Leargle wrote:
The 3 reaper rush, like any other build, has tells. Learn what you're looking for and plan a deviation.
Adjusting is one of the most important things you can do in a strategy. Sure, you might not hit your timing if something weird happens, but you'll be ahead in some other sort of way.
I'm sure we all know this, but the problem is: if you scout your opponent doing a reaper build (or if they execute it poorly enough, reveal 2 rax with tech labs and an early gas), then what IS the proper response? By then, most would have the factory going up. A bunker cannot be placed properly to defend this and although one could say that you can place marines at the cliffs, 3 reapers can easily take out 3 marines or even 4-5 marines depending on positioning and how well you managed the cliffs. The 3 reaper opening counters the 1-1-1 style pretty hard and this is a variation of it, so what is the proper response?
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On July 04 2011 15:11 Cityfern wrote:
Is losing 100 minerals temporarily (more like 25 minerals given the salvage) for the bunker putting you that far behind?
Not if you salvage before the you put down the cc. If it gets squeezy around 27 (which is when the 2nd cc goes down) you can supply call down.
On July 04 2011 20:37 bylex wrote:
Just wondering: how does the push work considering he walled up with bunker and has 2 siege tanks near ramp? I saw something similar with this build, but the player built a proxy rax near the opponent's base to give view...
Cheers.
You want to get him to lift the natural (I'm assuming your saying he has his natural, if not just contain for a bit and go home) so using your two scans you want to try to take care of his tanks and do damage.
On July 04 2011 19:55 Hider wrote:
These pushes are just chance-based, meaning that you die to a counter drop. You simply cannot do these kind of pushes if you want to be a solid player. I see a lot of terran in tvt doing risky stuff, not realizing that they are in fact "chance" players, as they typically expand as well and hence feel like they play a macro-oriented style.
IMO work on a long-term solid style (aka always have a plan to deal with everything the opponent can throw at you), instead of this "chance-play".
This is not a chance play, I don't die to anything and I have a tank seiged at home for a counter drop. I can certainly do these sorts of pushes and be a solid player, forgg did these sorts of pushes every game for years at the highest level and was a solid player. I don't see how having a proactive strategy makes it not "solid". I have a build, I am working on having a response to everything -.-
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This was my autowin build on steppes of war( gooooooooood i LOVED steppes for TvT ).
I'd rather do the 2 tank 1 viking 7 marines push tho.
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This build is an auto-loss vs blue hellion drop?
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On July 05 2011 07:04 Ineffability~ wrote:
I'd rather do the 2 tank 1 viking 7 marines push tho.
How exactly does this one work?
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On July 02 2011 06:07 TheSurgeonTV wrote:
susceptible to cloaked banshee?
I did a similar build to this one mentioned by OP (looks good btw, will try it  ) back in season 1 on Kulas Ravine (ugh..) cross position.
I managed to peg my opponent just before his banshee out, so he didn't have much to handle the tank + marine push.
So maybe if you're further away & suspect a banshee.. speed up the push a bit?
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How do u modify this build to ward off a cloaked banshee attack? Esp considering most banshee rushers will hide port from being scanned.
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On July 05 2011 14:47 Evantas wrote:
How do u modify this build to ward off a cloaked banshee attack? Esp considering most banshee rushers will hide port from being scanned.
Instead of putting down a CC when you have the minerals, invest in an eBay and turrets. You will need to scout them!
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No offense, but this build literally loses to almost anything. Your push is too late to do anything at all. I have a rax factory expand build that I may end up writing about if I'm bored enough, but this is really not optimal at all. You expand soooo late considering you are not stopping him from going FE in any way (at least a competent player will never die to that push with any build).
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On July 05 2011 14:51 Pokebunny wrote:
No offense, but this build literally loses to almost anything. Your push is too late to do anything at all. I have a rax factory expand build that I may end up writing about if I'm bored enough, but this is really not optimal at all. You expand soooo late considering you are not stopping him from going FE in any way (at least a competent player will never die to that push with any build).
Get bored please. ^^ This site needs more good TVT guides.
And I will try this build. Terran is my weakest race and TVT is my weakest matchup, so we'll see how it goes.
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I think this would just straight up lose to anybody who makes a banshee and has somewhat decent micro. Without stim or combat shield the marines are pretty terrible vs anybody with good banshee control. I don't see how you'll really be able to do much damage except delay your opponent's expansion for a bit...just because all he has to do is make a banshee and have 1-2 more in production, stall your 10 marines and 3 tanks on route to his base with the banshee, by the time you get to his base you will probably have about 3 marines left and the 2nd banshee can clean that up and your tanks are now useless and he takes an expansion and can start harassing you with the banshee b/c your expo is up so early but in reality you need turrets everywhere because you are trying to defend and early expo so you need to put up like 4 turrets and least and even THEN he will probably just get ahead of you in eco b/c he made 2-3 banshees and got a bunch of kills off your main initial push and you have to invest even more into turrets and shit so all your scvs don't die....
I'm not even talking 1 starport cloak, you would straight up not be able to push at all because you don't have a starport and you will run out of scans going to his base.
I'd like to play vs it to test it, but I don't think it sounds very good just b/c the timing is simply at an awkward time as well as your tech is a bit too slow.
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On July 05 2011 09:25 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 07:04 Ineffability~ wrote:
I'd rather do the 2 tank 1 viking 7 marines push tho. How exactly does this one work?
http://imageshack.us/f/43/screenshot2011070512411.jpg/
This is how it looks like, if someone is interested PM me.
It basically OWNS the build from OP, cus i'll have same amount of tanks, more marines, a viking and a reactored starport by the time he has a normal one. Yes my expand is somewhat later, but the idea of my build is to contain, so you wont be able to get yours up as well
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On July 05 2011 14:51 Pokebunny wrote:
No offense, but this build literally loses to almost anything. Your push is too late to do anything at all. I have a rax factory expand build that I may end up writing about if I'm bored enough, but this is really not optimal at all. You expand soooo late considering you are not stopping him from going FE in any way (at least a competent player will never die to that push with any build).
the problem with the build is that it takes the worse parts of a FE and the worse parts of a timing push and mixes them together. But to call it downright bad is I think looking past some of it's stronger qualities which is that it is a fast tech build that squeezes an expo. It's a lot easier to handle for low apm players compared to a drop harass tactic into expo.
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On July 05 2011 14:51 Pokebunny wrote:
No offense, but this build literally loses to almost anything. Your push is too late to do anything at all. I have a rax factory expand build that I may end up writing about if I'm bored enough, but this is really not optimal at all. You expand soooo late considering you are not stopping him from going FE in any way (at least a competent player will never die to that push with any build).
Oh well, back to the drawing board then
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On July 02 2011 09:50 lcl wrote:
yeah, ive now blindly done this build 3 times and won all three without any issue, though i made a bunker in close positions when i scouted a fast 2nd rax. the minerals that go into the cc can be used instead to defend against banshees or lots of marines and you can stay on 1 base since your opponent will be behind anyway if you successfully defend these things
please take this thread down so that no one does it back to me!
You'll be surprised. A lot of us (including me) don't realize what may seem basic to you. I like this build and appreciate the effort that went into it.
I also like the TLDR version. Easier to memorize. I would suggest putting a couple of checks into the TLDR version or original post as well. Like 7:30 siege done with 3 tanks x marines etc...
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On July 05 2011 14:51 Pokebunny wrote:
No offense, but this build literally loses to almost anything. Your push is too late to do anything at all. I have a rax factory expand build that I may end up writing about if I'm bored enough, but this is really not optimal at all. You expand soooo late considering you are not stopping him from going FE in any way (at least a competent player will never die to that push with any build).
This is exactly how I feel about this build. It may work in mid masters (in best case) but at higher level... I don't see it happening.
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Definitely going to try out this build. I've been playing with the 1-1-1 bo (bronzie) but I've had trouble figuring out when to push out. This looks like a nice timing to do so. If you're playing toss, or your scout early roaches, would you rather make a tech lab on your barracks instead of a reactor? I'm just throwing out some theorycraft, not sure if it's valid or not.
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On July 05 2011 19:50 Ineffability~ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 09:25 Shiv. wrote:On July 05 2011 07:04 Ineffability~ wrote:
I'd rather do the 2 tank 1 viking 7 marines push tho. How exactly does this one work? http://imageshack.us/f/43/screenshot2011070512411.jpg/This is how it looks like, if someone is interested PM me. It basically OWNS the build from OP, cus i'll have same amount of tanks, more marines, a viking and a reactored starport by the time he has a normal one. Yes my expand is somewhat later, but the idea of my build is to contain, so you wont be able to get yours up as well
what is the bo for this?
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On July 02 2011 11:05 GinDo wrote:It is but their are alot of nooblets who need this written down. Sometimes its hard to keep up with the metagame when you don't watch replays and streams. @OP you should consider adding this to Liquidpedia.
Nooblets like me! Thanks OP.
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EPT
