On June 14 2011 04:17 Mataza wrote:
So wait, this game actually starts in 6 hours?
I was already masoned and stuff.

Let´s see, let´s see...
We know the exact number of scum this game. That´s better than nothing I guess.
Also I will not be for the first half of night 0, because it´s in the middle of the night for me.
Kinda excited.

Why did you already claim to be masoned?

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 14 2011 04:44 GMT

#170

I'm already sick to death of the talk about the mason system going around so far. Is it really that important to save your mason choices for later and/or not use any early? Quite personally I find the whole mason thing to be useless. People really seem hung up on it so maybe there's something about it I'm not getting.

What can you accomplish with it? You get a nice town circle going? I already know of a place the town circle can talk, it's called the thread. Everyone in the circle has to be a confirmed townie, and if you're a confirmed townie then everyone knows it. Obviously this mason thing can change if you're a DT and if you're a DT I hope you're smart enough to use it well.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 14 2011 04:50 GMT

#176

Oh hey I made it on a list.

Did sandroba say that it discourages mafia from killing people on the list? Because I'm pretty sure BC said for medics to protect people not on the list, thus the people who are on the list are wide open.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 14 2011 04:52 GMT

#177

On June 14 2011 13:49 GGQ wrote:
I don't know if you've ever played a pm game of mafia before, but it can be very beneficial to discuss things with only one or two people that you trust to be town. You can make plans and lay traps for mafia. Don't underestimate the power of your mason ability.

You give me one good example of this happening in a previous mafia game or I vote for your lynch day 1.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 14 2011 19:39 GMT

#233

GGQ that is an example so you don't get auto-voted. But it's still pretty weak to me. You have one of the best analyzers (Ver) and only one other person setting a trap for someone who they found suspicious long before any PM-traps happened. I'd have to see exactly what happened but I highly doubt anything involving PMs was the true cause.

It really seems like we can just let Mataza talk to himself for a while here.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 15 2011 08:17 GMT

#282

Well, my vote will be on aidnai until he can shake off the stench of spam and blue-snipe bragging.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 15 2011 22:09 GMT

#319

On June 16 2011 04:56 aidnai wrote:
Sinani has a good point about OpZ, and it applies to scamp as well in my opinion. Both zodiac list players, both voting for me with almost zero thread presence other than a one liner excuse for their vote. (scamp also did show some aggression towards GGQ but doesn't seem interested in following that up). Very disappointing to say the least -- every newb townie is like "hurr durr, this guy is active/vocal, he's suspicious, FOS", but why supposed vets are doing this is beyond me.

Follow up aggression toward GGQ with what, exactly? I didn't like how much he seemed to value the PM system in this game. I asked for an example, he provided one, I still haven't changed my mind but I see his point. It really is a non-issue because our argument was more about how the game works rather than anything with the actual game.

You, on the other hand, were playing like crap and I got you to cut that out. Are you scum that just got encouraged to play better? I'll decide that in the future. What I don't like is the implication that there is a good way to play and a bad one that vets can't do. While there may be some things you should never do there is no blueprint for how you play. I know you aren't the only one saying things like this but you mentioned me and I quoted you so you get put on notice.

1: You need thread presence to vote? News to me.

2: You're putting too much emphasis on the Zodiac thread. It's mostly just a list of experienced players that BC has seen before. Also I dunno if he ordered the list but if he did I was the last person on it. Obviously I barely made the cut. But anyway...

3: Experienced or no, you clearly have no idea of my history playing TL mafia and what I have done to earn recognition enough to make the list. More to the point, you don't know my strengths and weakness and overall playing style. So I don't see how you should be disappointed in my play unless you expect all vets to play a certain way.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 16 2011 16:57 GMT

#373

Nice ninja. I was just about to post the non-vote list. Though Demorcerf did vote.

I also like it when people complain about the inactivity and then do nothing to help change it.

Sinani if you don't want to be killed in vain you should probably present a case against someone. Do you still think John is scummy?

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 16 2011 22:19 GMT

#445

On June 17 2011 07:06 aidnai wrote:
Here's the problems I'm having with lynching an inactive right now.
1) we're not even trying to find a scum, we're just punishing bad behaviour. This is better left to vigi's, ala Ace's nice advice piece here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232671
2) It's a scum favored delay tactic -- we give up a real lynch which people have argued back and forth about, and in the end we get --- another round of night kills, a bunch of day 1 discussion that means a lot less without any relevant flip.
3) ILJ is as good as an inactive at this point.
4) ILJ responded poorly to pressure, you're not gonna get much better than this day 1.

All that said,
##VOTE: ilovejonn

I don't see how things are more helpful by lynching ILJ. You can look at the discussion on him, but you also have lurkers that are still around with nothing on them at all. It's the same as if you killed a lurker and have ILJ still there.

Vigs can kill ILJ as well.

Meanwhile if you kill the lurkers then everyone knows they're going to die if they do that. That's pretty important in a game like this.

However, your point about ILJ being as good as inactive at this point brings things back. If that is true then going after him over another inactive makes sense. It's also kind of a paradox because the argument starts with you not wanting to lynch an inactive.

I'd like to add GGQ to the mix on this for people to watch. He has simply not posted enough.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 16 2011 22:32 GMT

#450

I'm going to have to change my vote soon but I don't think ILJ is scummy and I don't like some of the people on the GG list.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 16 2011 22:47 GMT

#458

I need to go and I won't be back before the deadline. As stated earlier, I don't think either ILJ or GG are scum so I won't be voting for them. However, I do like aidnai's case against him as outlined a few posts before this one. Also my read on GG is null but I'm suspicious of a few people that are voting for him.

You can treat my vote as an abstain vote but it's going on someone who I will be looking at more closely on the next day.

Scamp

United States1086 Posts

June 17 2011 20:19 GMT

#588

On June 17 2011 18:26 syllogism wrote:
You like a case against them, but don't think they are scum ???

Yeah, meaning I think the case made sense in that it's not just total BS. It didn't make me think ILJ was scum, though.

Also you should not always vote to save yourself if you're town based on the circumstances. Generally it's probably a good idea but the goal of town is to find scum, and not to stay alive.

Just so everyone knows I will be absent for the better half of day 2. I will be back several hours before the deadline but I don't want people thinking I disappeared from the game for no reason.